Ulster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby, 4 December

by **George Carlin** Mon 30 Nov 2015, 6:12 am

Ulster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby, 4 December Edinbu10

Ulster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby
Friday 4 December 2015
KO: 19:35
Kingspan Stadium, Belfast

Live on BBC Heedrumhodrum & BBC NI

Referee: Ian Davies (WRU, 38th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Kieran Barry, Frank Murphy (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: John Cole (IRFU)
TMO: Alan Rogan (IRFU)

A. Head to Head

26 Played 26
17 Wins 9
9 Losses 17
0 Draws 0
631 Points 428

B. Form

Fri 3 October 2014
Ulster Rugby 30 - 0 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 20 February 2015
Edinburgh Rugby 17 - 20 Ulster Rugby

C. Teams

Ulster Rugby
Ulster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby, 4 December Michel10

Ulster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby, 4 December Michel10

1. Kyle McCall
2. Rob Herring (c)
3. Ricky Lutton
4. Dan Tuohy
5. Franco van der Merwe
6. Iain Henderson
7. Chris Henry
8. Roger Wilson
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Paddy Jackson
11. Rory Scholes
12. Luke Marshall
13. Darren Cave
14. Andrew Trimble
15. Peter Nelson

16. John Andrew 17. Andy Warwick 18. Wiehahn Herbst 19. Alan O'Connor 20. Nick Williams 21. Paul Marshall 22. Stuart McCloskey 23. Louis Ludik

Edinburgh Rugby
Ulster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby, 4 December Lindsa10

Ulster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby, 4 December Lindsa10

15 Jack Cuthbert

14 Dougie Fife

13 Chris Dean

12 Matt Scott

11 Will Helu

10 Phil Burleigh

9 Sean Kennedy

1 Alasdair Dickinson

2 Ross Ford

3 WP Nel

4 Anton Bresler

5 Alex Toolis

6 Mike Coman (capt)

7 John Hardie

8 Cornell Du Preez

Substitutes

16 Neil Cochrane

17 Rory Sutherland

18 John Andress

19 Jamie Ritchie

20 Hamish Watson

21 Nathan Fowles

22 Michael Allen

23 Blair Kinghorn

by **RDW** Mon 30 Nov 2015, 7:42 am

Some of our players are due a rest (i.e. the front row) but I hope he goes for broke for this one and uses the Challenge Cup game away to London Irish to rotate.

The Kingspan is an imposing place to go but Ulster's form has been erratic this season - if we carry on our dominance up front and work out what to do when we have the ball we stand a chance.

Hopefully Manu will be back and we could do with Gilchrist returning too given we only have 2 fit locks.

Also, it is strange we are playing Ulster again in the league given we've not played every other team for the first time yet!

by **George Carlin** Mon 30 Nov 2015, 10:30 am

Edinburgh may need a Plan B for this game because a Furlong, Cronin and McGrath front row is notably stronger than anything they have faced recently.

by **RDW** Mon 30 Nov 2015, 10:40 am

We certainly will need a plan B. Even if we do have the advantage in the scrums it certainly won’t be to the same man-shaming extent that we did against the Dragons. Ulster will be a lot more competitive up front in general too.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 30 Nov 2015, 12:25 pm

George Carlin wrote:Edinburgh may need a Plan B for this game because a Furlong, Cronin and McGrath front row is notably stronger than anything they have faced recently.

Pretty sure they play for Leinster rather than Ulster, or are you suggesting that Edinburgh do Glasgow's scrummaging for them??

by **RDW** Mon 30 Nov 2015, 12:35 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Edinburgh may need a Plan B for this game because a Furlong, Cronin and McGrath front row is notably stronger than anything they have faced recently.

Pretty sure they play for Leinster rather than Ulster, or are you suggesting that Edinburgh do Glasgow's scrummaging for them??

I did think that, but given my poor Ulster knowledge I just assumed they had similarly named players!

by VinceWLB Mon 30 Nov 2015, 12:37 pm

I hope Solomons goes for broke for this too. I think he will actually, during the WC Edinburgh had to play their 2nd choice props against Ulster 1st choice. I think AS will want to show his former team what his 1st choice props are made of this time around.

by Guest Mon 30 Nov 2015, 12:47 pm

Ulster will win Cool

by **rodders** Mon 30 Nov 2015, 12:53 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Edinburgh may need a Plan B for this game because a Furlong, Cronin and McGrath front row is notably stronger than anything they have faced recently.

Pretty sure they play for Leinster rather than Ulster, or are you suggesting that Edinburgh do Glasgow's scrummaging for them??

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 30 Nov 2015, 1:24 pm

The problem Solly has here is important fixtures back to back. Beating Ulster is very important, we have gotten ourselves in a very competative position in the pro12 and IMO we need to win this one to maintain our position as a force to be respected in the league.

I'd like to see us at full strength particularly up front for this. What happens in the backs doesn't really matter. We seem to be all out of ideas from 9 to 15 and our pack and more specifically our scrum has crushed some good teams this year already.

Ulster will be a real test but will no doubt have one eye on their must win European games next weekend too.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 30 Nov 2015, 1:26 pm

I think we should go all guns for this one and the LI game at home, but rest key players for the LI away game in the middle (which we can frankly afford to lose).

I'd go with the same team that beat the Dragons. If Tonks is out then Kinghorn should start with Fife coming onto the bench. Done.

I thought Kinghorn looked hugely promising against the Dragons. A tall rangy player who looked both comfortable with ball in hand and pretty darn quick.

by **RDW** Mon 30 Nov 2015, 1:29 pm

I agree that I don't think next week's game against LI is a must win - certainly much less important than this one.

Even if we lost to LI away I'd be confident of winning every other game in the group, especially with the French teams likely to be out by then. That should be enough to get us top spot.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 30 Nov 2015, 1:39 pm

We'd still be competitive against LI away. They are already looking like a relegation scrap awaits them, so I don't think they will throw the kitchen sink at us either.

Something like this:

1.Sutherland 2.Cochrane 3.Andress 4.A Toolis 5.McKenzie 6.Ritchie 7.Watson 8.Bradbury 9.Fowles 10.Kinghorn 11.Hoyland 12.Strauss 13.Beard 14.Fife 15.Cuthbert

Maybe a returning Manu and Bresler could also get a game to add some experience to the pack.

by **George Carlin** Mon 30 Nov 2015, 1:55 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Edinburgh may need a Plan B for this game because a Furlong, Cronin and McGrath front row is notably stronger than anything they have faced recently.

Pretty sure they play for Leinster rather than Ulster, or are you suggesting that Edinburgh do Glasgow's scrummaging for them??

Oh holy hell. picard

I need a holiday.

Warwick, Best and Herbst is even worse news for Edinburgh.

by **Notch** Mon 30 Nov 2015, 2:09 pm

Herbst has been falling on his face a lot recently, much to the displeasure of referees everywhere. When he doesn't do that he's actually really hard to shift but there have been a few too many penalties going against him. People who know a lot more about scrummaging than me suggest he isn't getting his feet far enough forward often enough, but I don't see that with my layman's view- I just see 'Fat Boy Fell Over'.

Ulster simply can't afford to lose this game, and I think won't lose this game, but we need a big performance and a few tries for the home crowd to stop the rot. Edinburgh are a difficult team to play against, strong up front and obdurate in defence. We need to restore some pride in the jersey.

We want to beat Toulouse at Ravenhill of course but this one is much more important for our season as a whole. Saracens proved we simply can't compete against the big boys, so really Europe is only about trying to perform well enough to shift some season tickets for next year and provide some good days out for the fans. But our only chance of silverware is to put a run together in the league.

by **rodders** Mon 30 Nov 2015, 4:07 pm

Herbst looks like he's had a few too many springbok burgers and mulled wines.

by EWT Spoons Mon 30 Nov 2015, 4:09 pm

This isn't a game where we can afford to rest players, and like FES, I think the same team that played against Dragons is probably as strong as we can put out currently, so would play that side again.

by VinceWLB Mon 30 Nov 2015, 4:21 pm

Is Herbst experiencing a second season syndrome? Looks like it and hopefully Nel will teach him a thing or 2 about scrummaging Very Happy

by marty2086 Mon 30 Nov 2015, 4:22 pm

Notch wrote:Herbst has been falling on his face a lot recently, much to the displeasure of referees everywhere. When he doesn't do that he's actually really hard to shift but there have been a few too many penalties going against him. People who know a lot more about scrummaging than me suggest he isn't getting his feet far enough forward often enough, but I don't see that with my layman's view- I just see 'Fat Boy Fell Over'.

By the looks of it, all his weight is resting on the opposition LH rather than supporting his own weight so if they step back he has no support. One of the penalties against him on Friday was a slip but because he's now earned the reputation everything will go against him

by toml Mon 30 Nov 2015, 7:46 pm

VinceWLB wrote:Is Herbst experiencing a second season syndrome? Looks like it and hopefully Nel will teach him a thing or 2 about scrummaging

I think Lutton might play. It was interesting watching Austin Healy commenting of Herbst vs Vunipola a fortnight ago. Herbst managed to get a good shove and got a penalty, and Healy said watch this next scrum - Vunipola will take half a step back and make it look like Herbst has gone down. As soon as the ball goes in Herbst goes flat on his face. He needs to be a bit cuter.

by **Notch** Mon 30 Nov 2015, 8:33 pm

VinceWLB wrote:Is Herbst experiencing a second season syndrome? Looks like it and hopefully Nel will teach him a thing or 2 about scrummaging

Nel will be scrummaging against McCall, not Herbst.

by VinceWLB Mon 30 Nov 2015, 8:47 pm

toml wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Is Herbst experiencing a second season syndrome? Looks like it and hopefully Nel will teach him a thing or 2 about scrummaging

I think Lutton might play. It was interesting watching Austin Healy commenting of Herbst vs Vunipola a fortnight ago. Herbst managed to get a good shove and got a penalty, and Healy said watch this next scrum - Vunipola will take half a step back and make it look like Herbst has gone down. As soon as the ball goes in Herbst goes flat on his face. He needs to be a bit cuter.

Interesting, missed the game so can't really comment but anyone getting penalised when scrummaging against Vunipola has to be suspect, Vunipola has never been a great scrummager and never will.

Notch wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Is Herbst experiencing a second season syndrome? Looks like it and hopefully Nel will teach him a thing or 2 about scrummaging

Nel will be scrummaging against McCall, not Herbst.

I know i know but Herbst will learn a lot about scrummaging on the tighthead side when he watches a tape of the game back Wink

Jeez can't wait for the game now Ulster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby, 4 December 3933776953

by funnyExiledScot Tue 01 Dec 2015, 9:21 am

toml wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Is Herbst experiencing a second season syndrome? Looks like it and hopefully Nel will teach him a thing or 2 about scrummaging

I think Lutton might play. It was interesting watching Austin Healy commenting of Herbst vs Vunipola a fortnight ago. Herbst managed to get a good shove and got a penalty, and Healy said watch this next scrum - Vunipola will take half a step back and make it look like Herbst has gone down. As soon as the ball goes in Herbst goes flat on his face. He needs to be a bit cuter.

I agree, but I also wish that refs were sharper on this front. Edinburgh humiliated the Dragons scrum on Friday, but that didn't stop Mitrea (who had a complete and utter Craig Joubert - rhyming slang for nightmare) awarding the Dragons a scrum penalty in the first half for an apparent "early shove" from Edinburgh. Complete nonsense of course, the Dragons just failed to take the hit because they knew they were about to be marched backwards. Fair play to them of course, but I really wish refs would police that a bit better (at least for so long as Edinburgh and Scotland can scrummage).

by **RDW** Tue 01 Dec 2015, 9:56 am

That’s exactly why it is quite a risky tactic to be so reliant on your scrum – you could come up against a ref who has a bee in his bonnet about something and penalises you despite clear dominance. It happened at Connacht at home last season and threatened to happen in the first half on Friday but luckily after demolishing them a few times the ref got the hint that it was the Dragons who were doing a soft his and collapsing early.

And given the level of quality of Pro 12 refs, the risk is probably quite high!

by **Notch** Tue 01 Dec 2015, 1:25 pm

How on earth does Joubert rhyme with nightmare?

by funnyExiledScot Tue 01 Dec 2015, 3:47 pm

Notch wrote:How on earth does Joubert rhyme with nightmare?

By pronoucing Joubert incorrectly.

by **Notch** Tue 01 Dec 2015, 5:38 pm

Thats actually a very good answer, fair play thumbsup

by **RDW** Tue 01 Dec 2015, 5:45 pm

I'm trying to think of a joke involving pronouncing things properly and the Northern Irish accent without making it offensive, but am failing, so I'm sure you all get the idea! Very Happy

by **Notch** Tue 01 Dec 2015, 5:55 pm

Craig Jew-Bear ≠ Nightmur

by **RDW** Tue 01 Dec 2015, 5:58 pm

Night-mur?? Headscratch

Maybe in Made in Chelsea!

by **George Carlin** Wed 02 Dec 2015, 9:24 am

Just read that the vintage Patek collectors have not won in Belfast since September 2009.

Nice. picard

by **RDW** Wed 02 Dec 2015, 9:34 am

George Carlin wrote:Just read that the vintage Patek collectors have not won in Belfast since September 2009.

Nice.

For someone who regularly makes jokes about Edinburgh fans being upper class toffs, I have no idea what most of the things you reference are!

by Pete330v2 Wed 02 Dec 2015, 9:39 am

What exactly are Patek collectors George?

Collectors of vintage watches ??? Smile

by funnyExiledScot Wed 02 Dec 2015, 10:02 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Just read that the vintage Patek collectors have not won in Belfast since September 2009.

Nice.

For someone who regularly makes jokes about Edinburgh fans being upper class toffs, I have no idea what most of the things you reference are!

Posh watches. The ones you don't actually own, but rather look after for the next generation....

I don't own one, just to be clear. Spending money on a posh watch has always struck me as stupid.

by **RDW** Wed 02 Dec 2015, 10:09 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Just read that the vintage Patek collectors have not won in Belfast since September 2009.

Nice.

For someone who regularly makes jokes about Edinburgh fans being upper class toffs, I have no idea what most of the things you reference are!

Posh watches. The ones you don't actually own, but rather look after for the next generation....

I don't own one, just to be clear. Spending money on a posh watch has always struck me as stupid.

Tell you what, if you get me one of those as a present you can get an invite to my wedding!

by **George Carlin** Wed 02 Dec 2015, 10:23 am

Pete330v2 wrote:What exactly are Patek collectors George?

Collectors of vintage watches ???

Correct. Ignore the claims of bewilderment from Edinburgh fans Pete. They doth protest unconvincingly.

by **George Carlin** Wed 02 Dec 2015, 10:25 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Just read that the vintage Patek collectors have not won in Belfast since September 2009.

Nice.

For someone who regularly makes jokes about Edinburgh fans being upper class toffs, I have no idea what most of the things you reference are!

Give it time, RDW. I'm 10 years older than you. You will know very well if you stay in the nicer parts of the capital.

by funnyExiledScot Wed 02 Dec 2015, 11:06 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Just read that the vintage Patek collectors have not won in Belfast since September 2009.

Nice.

For someone who regularly makes jokes about Edinburgh fans being upper class toffs, I have no idea what most of the things you reference are!

Posh watches. The ones you don't actually own, but rather look after for the next generation....

I don't own one, just to be clear. Spending money on a posh watch has always struck me as stupid.

Tell you what, if you get me one of those as a present you can get an invite to my wedding!

On the basis that the wedding will be BYOB, I respectfully decline!!

by **RDW** Wed 02 Dec 2015, 11:21 am

It's not BYOB, it is pay the extortionate prices at the bar!

And how much booze do you drink at weddings to make having to buy an expensive gift worthwhile??

by funnyExiledScot Wed 02 Dec 2015, 11:32 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:It's not BYOB, it is pay the extortionate prices at the bar!

And how much booze do you drink at weddings to make having to buy an expensive gift worthwhile??

A colossal amount, particularly if it's free.....

The number one tip for weddings without a free bar is to grab a bottle of wine to yourself during the dinner and keep it under the table for later. Essential.

by Pete330v2 Wed 02 Dec 2015, 1:02 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:What exactly are Patek collectors George?

Collectors of vintage watches ???
Correct. Ignore the claims of bewilderment from Edinburgh fans Pete. They doth protest unconvincingly.

I thought we were doing metaphors and just couldn't make the link. Are Edinburgh folk considered to be a posh lot then? Dressing in tweed and sipping fine whiskey (or whisky for you Scottish folk) is very much in fashion these days you know.

by funnyExiledScot Wed 02 Dec 2015, 1:57 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:What exactly are Patek collectors George?

Collectors of vintage watches ???
Correct. Ignore the claims of bewilderment from Edinburgh fans Pete. They doth protest unconvincingly.

I thought we were doing metaphors and just couldn't make the link. Are Edinburgh folk considered to be a posh lot then? Dressing in tweed and sipping fine whiskey (or whisky for you Scottish folk) is very much in fashion these days you know.

It's all relative Pete. We're talking Glasgow fans vs Edinburgh fans here, so in that context buying Kellogg's cereal is considered posh, rather than buying supermarket own brand....not that I do my own shopping obviously....

by marty2086 Wed 02 Dec 2015, 2:07 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:What exactly are Patek collectors George?

Collectors of vintage watches ???
Correct. Ignore the claims of bewilderment from Edinburgh fans Pete. They doth protest unconvincingly.

I thought we were doing metaphors and just couldn't make the link. Are Edinburgh folk considered to be a posh lot then? Dressing in tweed and sipping fine whiskey (or whisky for you Scottish folk) is very much in fashion these days you know.

It's all relative Pete. We're talking Glasgow fans vs Edinburgh fans here, so in that context buying Kellogg's cereal is considered posh, rather than buying supermarket own brand....not that I do my own shopping obviously....

You get your maid to do that? Whistle

by Pete330v2 Wed 02 Dec 2015, 2:13 pm

marty2086 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:What exactly are Patek collectors George?

Collectors of vintage watches ???
Correct. Ignore the claims of bewilderment from Edinburgh fans Pete. They doth protest unconvincingly.

I thought we were doing metaphors and just couldn't make the link. Are Edinburgh folk considered to be a posh lot then? Dressing in tweed and sipping fine whiskey (or whisky for you Scottish folk) is very much in fashion these days you know.

It's all relative Pete. We're talking Glasgow fans vs Edinburgh fans here, so in that context buying Kellogg's cereal is considered posh, rather than buying supermarket own brand....not that I do my own shopping obviously....

You get your maid to do that?

by funnyExiledScot Wed 02 Dec 2015, 2:14 pm

I get a Glaswegian to do it for me. I pay him in bags of coal. That's how society works up here.

by Pete330v2 Wed 02 Dec 2015, 2:39 pm

I always knew there was a reason I naturally gravitated towards Edinburgh Smile

Anyway, back to the matter in hand and Ulster at home at the Ravespan. I can only imagine a strong selection being made. Something not dissimilar to who we had out against Leinster. Perhaps Lutton starting with Herbst doing a crash course on foot placement in scrums.

When's Payne back does anyone know?

by marty2086 Wed 02 Dec 2015, 2:56 pm

Wasn't the prognosis for Paynes return the New Year and wasn't he left out of the ERCC squad?

by funnyExiledScot Wed 02 Dec 2015, 3:01 pm

As long as Payne starts at centre and not at 15 I ain't bothered.....

by marty2086 Wed 02 Dec 2015, 3:08 pm

I'd say the chances of Jared Payne playing are slim to none, you'll probably have to make do with a Cave/McCloskey midfield

by **RDW** Wed 02 Dec 2015, 3:14 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:As long as Payne starts at centre and not at 15 I ain't bothered.....

I prefer Earls myself... Run

by Sponsored content