WBA Heavyweight Madness

Ok so the WBA have now made a ruling on what happens to their titles (what a joke that it still has two titles but still, lets try and work our way through the mess). The good news; unbelievably the WBA have approved Joshua-Wlad for the WBA Super title. How they arrived at that decision, heaven above only knows because Joshua, as the IBF champion, has no right to compete for a vacant belt for another organisation where he isn't even ranked. Still, as laughable as the decision is, we as boxing fans can only rejoice as Wlad now has no excuse to avoid the Joshua fight in the spring. No soft touch Lucas Browne in Germany this time for our Wlad. He either has to man up or look a laughing stock. And what a prospect that fight is. A largely untested Joshua who has never fought anyone with any elusive boxing skills (and that will still be the case after his joke defence against Molina) against a legend who knows all the tricks of the trade, bores us all silly with his jab and grab style but ruled the division for a decade. What I wouldn't give to see Joshua smash him to pieces.

Now for the even more strange news. For the regular title, we have Lucas Browne vs Shannon Briggs, a fight that has to take place between now and 31 December. I really have no idea how the WBA arrived at that decision. Lucas Browne clearly has some sort of ruling which meant he was always going to figure. But Shannon Briggs? What about Lucas Ortiz, Alexander Ustinov (both of whom are ranked higher than Briggs) or even David Haye. The really strange thing is that after Haye's and Briggs' fights this year, Haye was ranked above Briggs. Neither has fought in the meantime but now Haye is ranked beneath Briggs. How does that work? I'm a David Haye fan but even I am glad he is not getting a look in this way. Imagine the vitriol he would get and rightly deserve after two tune ups against guys I had never heard of before and then facing Browne for the regular title. In the last 4 years, Haye has done nothing to deserve being ranked highly by the organisations but even so, to be ranked well by the WBA one minute and then dropped down a couple of places the next is just odd. Anyway, we now face a prospect of having Briggs or Browne holding the WBA regular belt, and having to defend against Fres Oquendo in Spring 2017 so that ties that belt up for a little while and takes away any chance of seeing one WBA belt holder in a division for a fair bit longer.

Just looking at the fall out, I wonder where this all leaves someone like Haye? Does he try and chase the winner of Ruiz/Parker and grab the WBO belt before praying for a fight with Joshua for the summer of 2017 in a unification match? And does the fact that Joshua-Wlad actually stepping in a ring moving a little bit closer restore our faith in our brilliant but so often frustrating sport? Would love to hear your thoughts.

Think the WBA sanctioned it because of the $$$$$

Wlad vs AJ was only ever discussed to wet the appetite. No way would they have had a rush fight when they are able to prepare a proper stadium fight and make far more money.

Titles on the line just makes it even more lucrative.

BoxingFan - I think you're right. Still makes no sense from a rational and ranking point of view, but hey at least now the WBA are going to get their share of a mega fight.

Huw - I think you also have a point. I think Wlad-Joshua was discussed to wet the appetite. However I don't think either fighter's promoters expected the WBA to sanction it, especially Wlad who has made such a big deal about fighting for the WBA title. I bet they wanted to generate the interest, but not actually get in the ring. I think Wlad expected to fight someone like Browne for the WBA belt and would have been able to duck Joshua that way. Now, he actually has to fight Joshua and has nowhere to run. Ben Dirs made the same point on the BBC website yesterday. Why would Wlad care so much about the WBA belt when the organisation is regarded as a shambles? It makes no sense. Anyway, its done now and Wlad-Joshua moves closer to actually happening so all looks good for boxing fans today.

AJ isn't ranked but the WBA do tend to let unification fights take precedence over mandatories so it's not an altogether unexpected move from them.

Lets be honest, we all want to see it and its one of the biggest fights in boxing

BoxingFan88 wrote:Lets be honest, we all want to see it and its one of the biggest fights in boxing

Agreed. The only person who will be crying about todays WBA ruling is David Haye, and right now he doesn't deserve a shot.

Calf injury Wlad? Uh-huh. Something tells me that he wants to be in tip top condition for Joshua. A meaningless fight against Browne could have jeopardised a HUGE payday for him.

The WBA really are a joke though. This is on a par with the WBO moving a boxer up their rankings despite him having been dead for a while.

I would actually quite like to see the Briggs/Browne fight - mainly to see if Shannon can fight someone with a pulse. I am going with no, even if it is the limited but tough Lucas Browne. No way Briggs should be anywhere near a belt, even if it is as worthless as the one on offer.

I also want to see the Browne Briggs fight, though there is no way it should be for a title... Still, expect Briggs to knock him out inside 8 rounds.

When Wlad had his calf issue which postponed the first Fury fight, I expressed my concern regarding how well a 39-year old could do coming back from an injury. This would be two years later, coming off a loss to a guy who basically feinted him to death, and he'll be 41. I fancy AJ for this.

I assume Browne got the gift because he should be the Regular champion and the WBa are trying to give him as easy a berth as possible. Lord help us if his ass loses to Briggs though.

Happy days for Wlad. Bet he fancies himself much more against the more dangerous AJ than the more complex Fury.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Happy days for Wlad. Bet he fancies himself much more against the more dangerous AJ than the more complex Fury.

Are you serious? I'd say Wlad is between a rock and a hard place. Couldn't jab and grab Fury, unlikely to be able to with Joshua. Probably wanted an easy way out against Lucas Browne but demanded a split of 75/25 in his favour as though he was still champ. He makes a big song and dance about the WBA being the one belt he wants above all others thinking that gets him out of the Joshua fight and the WBA go and call his bluff. I bet he's furious...

It looks like the proposed Joshua v Klitschko fight was simply free advertising for both boxers. The WBA coincidentally announced it would sanction the fight after weeks of silence once both fighters had moved on from negotiations. Total baloney.

Fury hasn't half left behind a mess. There isn't even a consensus number 1 and 2 in his absence:

TBRB

1. Klitschko
2. Povetkin
3. Ortiz
4. Wilder

Ring

1. Klitschko
2. Wilder
3. Pulev
4. Ortiz

Boxing Monthly

1. Wilder
2. Joshua
3. Klitschko
4. Povetkin

Boxing news

1. Klitschko
2. Wilder
3. Pulev
4. Ortiz


On balance, the winner of Klitschko vs Wilder would be 'THE MAN'. But we all know that Sky will flog Klitschko vs Joshua as being for THE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP OF THE WORLD!!

hazharrison wrote:Fury hasn't half left behind a mess. There isn't even a consensus number 1 and 2 in his absence:

TBRB

1. Klitschko
2. Povetkin
3. Ortiz
4. Wilder

Ring

1. Klitschko
2. Wilder
3. Pulev
4. Ortiz

Boxing Monthly

1. Wilder
2. Joshua
3. Klitschko
4. Povetkin

Boxing news

1. Klitschko
2. Wilder
3. Pulev
4. Ortiz


On balance, the winner of Klitschko vs Wilder would be 'THE MAN'. But we all know that Sky will flog Klitschko vs Joshua as being for THE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP OF THE WORLD!!

There is definitely a number one and its Klitschko

Wilder is not number one in any reality

Boxing Monthly appears to be a joke

Ronikara wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Happy days for Wlad. Bet he fancies himself much more against the more dangerous AJ than the more complex Fury.

Are you serious? I'd say Wlad is between a rock and a hard place. Couldn't jab and grab Fury, unlikely to be able to with Joshua. Probably wanted an easy way out against Lucas Browne but demanded a split of 75/25 in his favour as though he was still champ. He makes a big song and dance about the WBA being the one belt he wants above all others thinking that gets him out of the Joshua fight and the WBA go and call his bluff. I bet he's furious...

Totally serious, whilst I agree it sounds absolute madness!

My point is, AJ is far far more dangerous. AJ presents a real ko threat and could potentially outmuscle Klit and match him for fitness (slightly TBC however). BUT, I think Klit would find it less hard to work him out. I love AJ, one of his biggest fans, but he is still a little stiff and one dimensional.

As much as I don't like Fury, he is everything but stiff and one dimensional. Wlad was never able to work him out and simply couldn't handle a guy that big & heavy with such a long reach (all attributes AJ wouldn't have) that moved so awkwardly but fluidly. Wlad ain't growing a fighters balls anytime soon so he'll never go gun-ho (how to beat Fury) therefore if he can't work someone out and manage them, he'll struggle to win. Fury also has massive pyschological advantages (possibly the single biggest factor) which AJ wouldn't have.

Therefore I think on balance, Wlad would actually prefer to face a younger less experienced version of himself than his absolute nightmare complete opposite.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Ronikara wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Happy days for Wlad. Bet he fancies himself much more against the more dangerous AJ than the more complex Fury.

Are you serious? I'd say Wlad is between a rock and a hard place. Couldn't jab and grab Fury, unlikely to be able to with Joshua. Probably wanted an easy way out against Lucas Browne but demanded a split of 75/25 in his favour as though he was still champ. He makes a big song and dance about the WBA being the one belt he wants above all others thinking that gets him out of the Joshua fight and the WBA go and call his bluff. I bet he's furious...

Totally serious, whilst I agree it sounds absolute madness!

My point is, AJ is far far more dangerous.  AJ presents a real ko threat and could potentially outmuscle Klit and match him for fitness (slightly TBC however). BUT, I think Klit would find it less hard to work him out. I love AJ, one of his biggest fans, but he is still a little stiff and one dimensional.

As much as I don't like Fury, he is everything but stiff and one dimensional.  Wlad was never able to work him out and simply couldn't handle a guy that big & heavy with such a long reach (all attributes AJ wouldn't have) that moved so awkwardly but fluidly.  Wlad ain't growing a fighters balls anytime soon so he'll never go gun-ho (how to beat Fury) therefore if he can't work someone out and manage them, he'll struggle to win. Fury also has massive pyschological advantages (possibly the single biggest factor) which AJ wouldn't have.

Therefore I think on balance, Wlad would actually prefer to face a younger less experienced version of himself than his absolute nightmare complete opposite.

I agree Wlad would rather face Joshua than Fury for the very reasons you stated. But actually I think he was worried about both of them and would have preferred to get an easy way to a belt like Browne. That's why I think he made such a big deal about the WBA belt, which no one seriously expected would sanction the IBF champion for a vacant WBA belt. Still, the WBA have done us a favour for a change and now Wlad has no excuse but to fight Joshua.

Completely agree that Joshua is more one dimensional than Fury who is the polar opposite but he's not a small heavyweight like a Povetkin who Wlad can lean on and hold/cheat his way to victory. I'm a fan of Joshua as well but he has yet to face any serious punchers who could hurt him so hasn't had to show defensive skill and he is yet to face anyone with any elusive defensive skills either. On that basis, Wlad will probably still take the fight with Joshua but I don't think he's happy about having to take on someone so dangerous.

I am actually trying to remember the last real puncher that Wlad fought - I think that it was Haye - 5 1/2 years ago.

I think it is going to be interesting to watch Joshua having to deal with a decent jab but also how Wlad deals with a similarly sized guy with sledgehammers for fists.
I am thinking that Wlad may hit the deck at some point.

Mr Bounce - I have to give Wlad a bit of credit here. He has taken on virtually all of the decent fighters out there such as Haye, Povetkin and Pulev. Can't think of anyone he ducked after Vitali retired and its not really his fault if they weren't big punchers. But I hope you're right and that if he does fight AJ, AJ manages to get him on the floor and out of there.

It's a huge fight for Wlad on a personal level

Win it and he can still go down as a decent champion lose it and he goes down in history as a rubbish champion who ruled a garbage era first two decent heavyweights he boxed he came unstuck Haye a mere cruiserweight yet to adjust to the weight

Also I don't think Wlad was looking for a way out of the Joshua fight it was always going to make more money in a stadium with more buildup

Povetkin was the last puncher Wlad faced

Herman Jaeger wrote:
Also I don't think Wlad was looking for a way out of the Joshua fight it was always going to make more money in a stadium with more buildup

If Wlad wasn't looking for a way out, why did he suddenly start talking about the WBA belt when it was unlikely that the WBA would sanction the IBF champion for the vacant super version? The day before the decision by the WBA, Ben Dirs wrote an article on the BBC website where he said Wlad talking about the WBA belt made no sense. Its by pure fluke that the WBA made the decision they did.

You could very well be right

I was thinking it was a way of stalling as he knew it would take some time the plan to build interest as it was always going to make a lot more money next year with the right planning

You could be right though what kind of a champion is he if he was looking for a way out further proof perhaps that he ruled a weak one

I'd like to get the consensus on here was Wlad looking for a way out ?

Anthony Joshua is still a novice given the rounds boxed. He is yet to go past 7 rounds. He hasn't yet been tested, apart from the early rounds of his fight with national level fighter Dylan White. I am sure Wlad thinks he can beat him.

I am not convinced that Wlad is going to be as effective as he used to be. He's always been gun-shy since Sanders and against AJ he will have a superbly conditioned athlete of a similar size as his opponent so his jab and grab technique may be redundant. Wlad is coming off his first loss for many years and although it's over a year ago, chances are it preys a bit on his mind.

Not saying by any stretch that this will be a cakewalk for Joshua but it won't be a peak Wlad he will face. Can Joshua really hang with the best? Does Wlad still have what it takes? I think that Joshua has serious potential to be very good and for me is the heir apparent but there are questions. Can he land on Wlad's questionable chin? Does he have enough nous to play the long game with Wlad? How's his stamina? How will he handle a good jab? And how will he handle being tagged by a GOOD heavyweight? 

I am looking forward to finding out, provided that the fight gets signed.

Ok now the WBA goes even more crazy. The latest development is that Alexander Ustinov may fight either David Haye or Manuel Charr for the WBA Interim Heavyweight title. Ustinov is ranked higher than both Haye and Briggs so why isn't he fighting Browne for the regular title? While we are on the topic, after their fights in May last year Haye was ranked higher than Briggs but lower than Ustinov. Why does there even need to be an interim title if the super belt is going to be contested between Wlad and Joshua and the regular belt is going to be between Browne and now Briggs? Surely the interim belt would only come in to play when the champion is injured? If there has to be an interim belt as well, why isn't Haye fighting Briggs for it? Does anyone think Haye would take this fight against Ustinov or will he wait for the WBO where he is mandatory. I'm going to have a lie down after trying to work my way through the madness of the WBA!

WBA is a joke. Everybody in the top ten is a title holder in some form or another. Waste of time organisation.

Would love to get one of the old Q&A sessions with Gilberto Mendoza. Question number 1 would quite simply be, "What in God's name are you idiots playing at?"

Its little more than a money making racket. Fighters pay fees for all these various titles. More titles = more fees.

Boxers are just as much to blame for the mess as the WBA are.

Fighters parading round with the WBA 'regular' title calling themselves World Champions while they know WBA have a 'Super' champion should be embarrassed. Surely when they go home at night they don't actually think of themselves as a champion.