Ireland to bid for 2023 World Cup

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37988826

I'm actually behind this, think Ireland would be a brilliant place to host a Rugby World Cup..

But is this going to be a bit of an embarrassment to the IRFU, when they'll have to consider playing the final at Croke Park with its 82,300 capacity against the relatively small 51,700 of the Aviva.

I know there's potential to extend the Aviva, but I believe it was held at 52k due to planning constraints in the mainly residential area, with concern about blocking out the light.

So, as I said. Ireland for a RWC is a fantastic prospect, with a final in Dublin, but anyone know if they can/will extend the Aviva on the back of this proposal, or is it likely to move to Croke if the GAA will play ball.

Thoughts.

SecretFly wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Casement Park has passed Phase 1 of the local consultation and is into Phase 2 now with the new plans and design announced but it seems some local residents simply don't want it. Regardless of improved designs, transport changes etc its just something they don't want but it seems it will go ahead

Any publically leaked reasons why they don't want it?  Is it a case that some of them want to be able to watch GAA games without leaving their top floor bedrooms?

Ok, I'm being flippant but only partially.  Any reasons given why the locals are against the development?

To be honest I think its got a touch of childishness to it all, I know the local residents because the generators for floodlights were too noisy when they were first installed and its now that the stadium will block their sunlight and decrease their house prices. The new design seems to have a glass wrap to address this.

I don't know if you are familiar with the area but it does have a traffic problem most days and Casement has no car park. There is a new rapid transit system being worked on at the minute which is hoping to fix it the larger problem in Belfast and they are improving park and rides services but this is something most in Belfast are reluctant to use and seem to prefer complaining about traffic.

There is also an issue with what is going to be held at the stadium, it rarely filled its current capacity so many see it as a white elephant and would require concerts etc to make it viable. The business plan mentions conferences and other events but not concerts so residents are complaining about this too and see it as an underhand way of getting it through without addressing any direct issues that will arise.

That isn't even all of them but its probably the biggest issues

There are houses at the back of Casement Park that will be permanently dark if it goes ahead - my wifes uncle lives in one.

The transport system has not got a hope of coping - Anderstown Road is a nightmare on a normal Saturday without any match.
Belfast itself is grinding to a halt due to cronic under investment in transport
The latest being the York Road interchange change being kicked into the long grass due to Brexit

It still doesn't have adequate health and safety proposals

There is a long long way to go.

I also note with interest that the bid now has a contingency to develop in Derry in case Casement never gets off the ground

Have to say I am totally cynical about the so call BRT - just looked it up basically Belfast are buying a new set of buses and promoting it as a revolution in transportation - hogwash

Geoff does the new design not address it? From the proposals I saw they have went for the Aviva style glass wrap to allow the light in

They are widening the Andersonstown Road they have started on it recently, I haven't seen how that's going to work outside Casement as it does seem to be restricted by the topography and layout there.

York Road apparently is now going ahead if they can find alternative funding, the begging bowl to London is probably how they will do that.

I read some residents were saying the health and safety hadn't been addressed but hadn't had the chance to read more of the proposal.

The whole thing wouldn't be a problem if they had just built at the Maze, 42k was the proposal there though losing Ravenhill would have been a sad day

It helps but does not real address the issue - lets put it this way I would be objecting if I lived there.

A begging bowl to London will go unanswered - we will have much bigger funding holes when Brexit has occurred.

The maze was doomed not least because of the issue of transport - the proposals to ferry fans to matches were so inadequate to be laughable

geoff999rugby wrote:It helps but does not real address the issue - lets put it this way I would be objecting if I lived there.

A begging bowl to London will go unanswered - we will have much bigger funding holes when Brexit has occurred.

The maze was doomed not least because of the issue of transport - the proposals to ferry fans to matches were so inadequate to be laughable

I thought there was a proposal for plenty of parking at the Maze?

It failed for other reasons thoughs which is what gets under my skin

Casement is hugely reliant of a similar proposal

The proposal at the Maze included

No credible public transport.
Some fans like a drink and is a useful source of income with no public transport worth of its name that aspect would have taken a huge hit
Add that to our inadequate road system and it would have turned the M1 into a car park on a Friday night
Come to think of it is now !!
Get to a 7.05 kick would require someone, in say Bangor, leaving at 4pm - and I'm not joking
Fore me know it takes nearly an hour leaving North Belfast to park near the Ormeau Road

Maze was not thought through and typical Northern Ireland no plans to provide the infrastructure required.
If we had gone there I would not have renewed my season ticket, and many others were of a like mind.

Agree with that. I find myself in permanent slow moving traffic around Ormeau where I live when I'm up.

''More than 830,000 tourists visited Ireland in October.''

Don't think Ireland will have any problem with coping with visitors for the RWC23.

Overall, total tourists will be about 9 million visitors this year.

http://www.thejournal.ie/tourist-numbers-up-3101665-Nov2016/

Way too soon to have another gig in the British Isles.

Agreed. No games in Wales

apparently italy pulled out, looks like it will go back to SA so they have a few years to sort themselves out unless they persist with the transformation in which case i expect they will hurtle into obscurity

There's no chance SA will get it. They have already hosted it, and they are a basket case right now. World Rugby wont take the risk.

Cyril wrote:Way too soon to have another gig in the British Isles.

Ha Cyril. You are such a sh1t stirrer.

80 Euro flights from US to Munster* with Norwegian Airlines.

*Cork and Shannon Airport.

Sin é wrote:80 Euro flights from US to Munster* with Norwegian Airlines.

*Cork and Shannon Airport.

Norwegian Airlines become the new Aer Lingus.  Maybe we should just go ahead and slap a shamrock on them;.... any auld Airline can these days.

They've got us - you couldn't make it up!

IRFU may have to hand over 20pc of the profit made from the 2023 Rugby World Cup to the WRU

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup/irfu-may-have-to-hand-over-20pc-of-the-profit-made-from-the-2023-rugby-world-cup-to-the-wru-35290487.html

Sin é wrote:They've got us - you couldn't make it up!  

IRFU may have to hand over 20pc of the profit made from the 2023 Rugby World Cup to the WRU

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup/irfu-may-have-to-hand-over-20pc-of-the-profit-made-from-the-2023-rugby-world-cup-to-the-wru-35290487.html

The trick is then to make no profit, pump all the money into "necessary expenses" and fees to the provinces for the use of their stadia etc.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:They've got us - you couldn't make it up!  

IRFU may have to hand over 20pc of the profit made from the 2023 Rugby World Cup to the WRU

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup/irfu-may-have-to-hand-over-20pc-of-the-profit-made-from-the-2023-rugby-world-cup-to-the-wru-35290487.html

The trick is then to make no profit, pump all the money into "necessary expenses" and fees to the provinces for the use of their stadia etc.

Quite a canny bloke our Glanmor

The weirdest 'agreement' in the history of wonky agreements.

The WRU want to host the WC; but don't have enough Stadiums etc.  So the other NH first tier Nations agree to support their bid and also help them out by saying they'd provide some Stadiums.... bonus to Wales - twice.

Wales made money by officially hosting - Wales wouldn't have made any money had they not hosted - and yet Wales are still owed money (or games) by Nations that allowed them to host by providing stadiums?

Worrah bunch of wheeler dealers involved in that circus...

And they say the irfu is crooked. Them welsh boys are a disgrace. What's the betting if we get it we make a "loss" but end up with fantastic infrastructure. We can borrow some of apples accountants, they owe us a favour or two.

Another whinge about the Welsh. F*ck me, the Irish are getting unbearable. If this had been the other way around the Irish would be crowing about their financial accumen and entrepreneurship. Like we hear about in the Pro12 debates.

It's not the other way around though, so we still have the moral authority to whinge.  Look up the rules Griff..... they're right beside the Anti-Irish Card Issuing Laws.

I know the French banned it, in return for EU loans but there are enough corporate accountants in Dublin to find a way to set up another 'Double Irish' wheeze.

Declare the RWC revenue in Cayman under intellectual property, the costs under another subsidiary in Dublin, so there are no profits in Dublin and the WRU can get 20% of nothing.

Everyone's a winner, er well the IRFU anyway......

SecretFly wrote:It's not the other way around though, so we still have the moral authority to whinge.  Look up the rules Griff..... they're right beside the Anti-Irish Card Issuing Laws.

You got a cut of the monies when Wales hosted the WC and signed a deal for a reciprocal arrangement in the even that you got to host it. What's so hard to understand about that? Why the beef now? If you want to vent your anger do it at your union who agreed to it pre- the 1999 World Cup.

Cayman? Oh that crooked British Overseas Pirate Territory that helps convert dodgy money into a private treasure map?

Nice try at taking some of the 20% for yourselves there, Rec

Griff, have a look down the back if the sofa, your sense of humour seems to be missing

Ha - It's an agreement between the 'home unions'. Since Ireland isn't a 'home' country/union/outpost then the IRFU should be fine. What's €4m plus a bit of interest between friends....

Griff wrote:Another whinge about the Welsh. F*ck me, the Irish are getting unbearable. If this had been the other way around the Irish would be crowing about their financial accumen and entrepreneurship. Like we hear about in the Pro12 debates.

To be fair, Griff, if it had been the other was around, the rage towards the Irish from certain Welsh posters would have been extreme .... but still funny

I think it's fair enough. If an agreement has been signed then it should be respected. I do suspect that costs will eat heavily into any net profit made from the tournament though

Anything that comes into the UK pays tax.
You are quite right the days of Cayman, Panama, Cyprus, Singapore, Jersey, HK are slowly but surely coming to an end.

Geneva, Luxembourg, Amsterdam and Dublin are probably going to be a longer term goal.

I wonder who leaked it to Wails Online and why?

Griff wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It's not the other way around though, so we still have the moral authority to whinge.  Look up the rules Griff..... they're right beside the Anti-Irish Card Issuing Laws.

You got a cut of the monies when Wales hosted the WC and signed a deal for a reciprocal arrangement in the even that you got to host it. What's so hard to understand about that? Why the beef now? If you want to vent your anger do it at your union who agreed to it pre- the 1999 World Cup.

Angry?  Strange but that seems to be you, Griff, more than any Irish eejit here.

On the points: I assume we all got a cut of the monies for the part played in:
1. Supporting Wales as WC host.
2. Making the application viable in terms of stadiums.  The Millennium couldn't host all games in a World Cup and still be in good condition for a final?  Could it?

But go ahead WRU.... take what you're 'owed' with our whinging blessing.   

I hope we're the last of the Nations to be hit by this crazy agreement though.  Are we?   Well, let's not rush too far ahead anyway.  I guess a gun has been put to our heads now in terms of WRU support for our hosting application.  So we might not even get as far as hosting anyway.
But Scotland have yet to go anyway before the deal with the Devil is dissolved.

Munchkin wrote:

Griff wrote:Another whinge about the Welsh. F*ck me, the Irish are getting unbearable. If this had been the other way around the Irish would be crowing about their financial accumen and entrepreneurship. Like we hear about in the Pro12 debates.

To be fair, Griff, if it had been the other was around, the rage towards the Irish, from certain Welsh posters would have been extreme .... but still funny

I think it's fair enough. If an agreement has been signed then it should be respected. I do suspect that costs will eat heavily into any net profit made from the tournament though

The costs will always eat into it, Munchkin. But I'm guessing that you made a pretty penny in the 1999 World Cup (all of Ireland's pool games played at home, plus a 1/4 final). I doubt you'd agree to the WRU having 20% of a future tournament if you weren't getting something similar in 1999.

Pot Hale wrote:I wonder who leaked it to Wails Online and why?

Gats.  It's always Gats, isn't it?.  And maybe Hartley had a part in it too.   And the ABs probably suggested all of it in the first place.

SecretFly wrote:

Griff wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It's not the other way around though, so we still have the moral authority to whinge.  Look up the rules Griff..... they're right beside the Anti-Irish Card Issuing Laws.

You got a cut of the monies when Wales hosted the WC and signed a deal for a reciprocal arrangement in the even that you got to host it. What's so hard to understand about that? Why the beef now? If you want to vent your anger do it at your union who agreed to it pre- the 1999 World Cup.

Angry?  Strange but that seems to be you, Griff, more than any Irish eejit here.

On the points: I assume we all got a cut of the monies for the part played in:
1. Supporting Wales as WC host.
2. Making the application viable in terms of stadiums.  The Millennium couldn't host all games in a World Cup and still be in good condition for a final?  Could it?

But go ahead WRU.... take what you're 'owed' with our whinging blessing.   

I hope we're the last of the Nations to be hit by this crazy agreement though.  Are we?   Well, let's not rush too far ahead anyway.  I guess a gun has been put to our heads now in terms of WRU support for our hosting application.  So we might not even get as far as hosting anyway.
But Scotland have yet to go anyway before the deal with the Devil is dissolved.

Ooh, the nasty old WRU tying you down and forcing the IRFU to take games. Why on earth did you say yes?

Griff wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Griff wrote:Another whinge about the Welsh. F*ck me, the Irish are getting unbearable. If this had been the other way around the Irish would be crowing about their financial accumen and entrepreneurship. Like we hear about in the Pro12 debates.

To be fair, Griff, if it had been the other was around, the rage towards the Irish, from certain Welsh posters would have been extreme .... but still funny

I think it's fair enough. If an agreement has been signed then it should be respected. I do suspect that costs will eat heavily into any net profit made from the tournament though

The costs will always eat into it, Munchkin. But I'm guessing that you made a pretty penny in the 1999 World Cup (all of Ireland's pool games played at home, plus a 1/4 final). I doubt you'd agree to the WRU having 20% of a future tournament if you weren't getting something similar in 1999.

Well, there are costs and then there are costs.

What happened in 1999 doesn't matter really. What matters is a legally binding agreement. You are right though, I wouldn't be happy if only Wales benefited from the agreement.

SecretFly wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:I wonder who leaked it to Wails Online and why?

Gats.  It's always Gats, isn't it?.  And maybe Hartley had a part in it too.   And the ABs probably suggested all of it in the first place.

Don't forget Wayne Barnes. He's another on the long list

I'm not blaming the WRU... I'm blaming the eejits that did the deal.... all of them. Obviously a deal from ye olde worlde of the notorious ancient and out-of-touch blazers.......

I'm blaming all the idiots in the room (except the Welsh) who read over that agreement and still signed it.

The 'Devil' is the deal. Stop being so touchy, Griff - you'll get your money. But first you have to support Ireland getting the WC in the first place. So be nice to us and we'll all get through this with some fake air-kissing.

Griff wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:I wonder who leaked it to Wails Online and why?

Gats.  It's always Gats, isn't it?.  And maybe Hartley had a part in it too.   And the ABs probably suggested all of it in the first place.

Don't forget Wayne Barnes. He's another on the long list

Barnes had no part in it. He has been way too busy over in the Caymen Islands talking to the 'investment' people and trying to put a spanner in our money laundering plans.

Munchkin wrote:

Griff wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Griff wrote:Another whinge about the Welsh. F*ck me, the Irish are getting unbearable. If this had been the other way around the Irish would be crowing about their financial accumen and entrepreneurship. Like we hear about in the Pro12 debates.

To be fair, Griff, if it had been the other was around, the rage towards the Irish, from certain Welsh posters would have been extreme .... but still funny

I think it's fair enough. If an agreement has been signed then it should be respected. I do suspect that costs will eat heavily into any net profit made from the tournament though

The costs will always eat into it, Munchkin. But I'm guessing that you made a pretty penny in the 1999 World Cup (all of Ireland's pool games played at home, plus a 1/4 final). I doubt you'd agree to the WRU having 20% of a future tournament if you weren't getting something similar in 1999.

Well, there are costs and then there are costs.

What happened in 1999 doesn't matter really. What matters is a legally binding agreement. You are right though, I wouldn't be happy if only Wales benefited from the agreement.

I've always seen the Irish as being pretty savvy business wise, while the Welsh are... well... pretty shoddy IMO. I cannot for one moment imagine that the Irish bigwigs would not negotiate a good deal for themselves. Or stand for a sh*t deal that would only benefit the Welsh. It doesn't stack up.

SecretFly wrote:I'm not blaming the WRU... I'm blaming the eejits that did the deal.... all of them.  Obviously a deal from ye olde worlde of the notorious ancient and out-of-touch blazers.......

I'm blaming all the idiots in the room (except the Welsh) who read over that agreement and still signed it.

The 'Devil' is the deal.  Stop being so touchy, Griff - you'll get your money.  But first you have to support Ireland getting the WC in the first place.  So be nice to us and we'll all get through this with some fake air-kissing.

You seem a bit touchy yourself, Fly, about the thought of fulfilling your (Irish) side of the agreement

Griff wrote:

I've always seen the Irish as being pretty savvy business wise, while the Welsh are... well... pretty shoddy IMO. I cannot for one moment imagine that the Irish bigwigs would not negotiate a good deal for themselves. Or stand for a sh*t deal that would only benefit the Welsh. It doesn't stack up.

Well the numbers do stack up Griff. 1999 is stone being used for writing on...with a chisel. 2016 is mega bucks i-pads. 20% of something in 1999 is a grain of sand to 20% of 2016's something.

The IRFU were officially idiots. Take the kudos when you worked for it.

Griff wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I'm not blaming the WRU... I'm blaming the eejits that did the deal.... all of them.  Obviously a deal from ye olde worlde of the notorious ancient and out-of-touch blazers.......

I'm blaming all the idiots in the room (except the Welsh) who read over that agreement and still signed it.

The 'Devil' is the deal.  Stop being so touchy, Griff - you'll get your money.  But first you have to support Ireland getting the WC in the first place.  So be nice to us and we'll all get through this with some fake air-kissing.

You seem a bit touchy yourself, Fly, about the thought of fulfilling your (Irish) side of the agreement

Try it...it won't work. You're the guy who snapped when the rest of us were having our theatrical whinges...................................

I'm just using real hard business lingo for a guy who seems to want to cut out the childish messing.

Griff wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Griff wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Griff wrote:Another whinge about the Welsh. F*ck me, the Irish are getting unbearable. If this had been the other way around the Irish would be crowing about their financial accumen and entrepreneurship. Like we hear about in the Pro12 debates.

To be fair, Griff, if it had been the other was around, the rage towards the Irish, from certain Welsh posters would have been extreme .... but still funny

I think it's fair enough. If an agreement has been signed then it should be respected. I do suspect that costs will eat heavily into any net profit made from the tournament though

The costs will always eat into it, Munchkin. But I'm guessing that you made a pretty penny in the 1999 World Cup (all of Ireland's pool games played at home, plus a 1/4 final). I doubt you'd agree to the WRU having 20% of a future tournament if you weren't getting something similar in 1999.

Well, there are costs and then there are costs.

What happened in 1999 doesn't matter really. What matters is a legally binding agreement. You are right though, I wouldn't be happy if only Wales benefited from the agreement.

I've always seen the Irish as being pretty savvy business wise, while the Welsh are... well... pretty shoddy IMO. I cannot for one moment imagine that the Irish bigwigs would not negotiate a good deal for themselves. Or stand for a sh*t deal that would only benefit the Welsh. It doesn't stack up.

I think it probably looked like a good deal at the time but, at glance, it does appear the WRU played a blinder, and fair play to them.

The IRFU must respect the agreement, and probably are legally bound to do so anyway. And it shouldn't be forgotten that the WRU stood side by side with the IRFU during the Euro fiasco. I would think both Unions are on good terms.

Griff wouldn't it be ironic that the deal that Glanmor set up will finally settle the bill on the MS, PS or whatever it is called, when the Dodger in between tried to scupper the whole shebang, and Martyn Phillips can take the credit for this.
The Fail reckon it will be about £23M, that should clearly settle the account and leave a few bob over for the Regions.

Anyway, it'll be nice, heartwarming - and surreal - to see the Welsh get behind our bid from here on in.  
We look forward to being lovebombed.

Even Phill might be finally coaxed to bury the hatchet (not in our skulls) and spread the good news about the soft and conditionally friendly isle to his left, filled with laughing, whinging, cheating rustic outlanders - and ruled over by the Great Satan Ire Feu.  Sure it's a Tourist's Dream!

SecretFly wrote:

Griff wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I'm not blaming the WRU... I'm blaming the eejits that did the deal.... all of them.  Obviously a deal from ye olde worlde of the notorious ancient and out-of-touch blazers.......

I'm blaming all the idiots in the room (except the Welsh) who read over that agreement and still signed it.

The 'Devil' is the deal.  Stop being so touchy, Griff - you'll get your money.  But first you have to support Ireland getting the WC in the first place.  So be nice to us and we'll all get through this with some fake air-kissing.

You seem a bit touchy yourself, Fly, about the thought of fulfilling your (Irish) side of the agreement

Try it...it won't work.  You're the guy who snapped when the rest of us were having our theatrical whinges...................................

I'm just using real hard business lingo for a guy who seems to want to cut out the childish messing.

Not trying anything Fly. Honestly. Snapped? I'm very calm here stirring my casserole.

Oh, nearly forgot:

So you were being Theatrical and Affected just like us??? Ah sure that's grand then. A man stirring a casserole could never tempt going ape-schidt whilst doing so (leaving aside Gordon Ramsey)

We're all conditional friends again. The entente cordiale has already begun.
...........................................

I also love Wayne's point.  The irony indeed.  The WRU pay off their debts and even have some change left over for Regions..... all courtesy of the blazer bedecked IRFU.  If it happens, it'll be a glorious twist to the last three or four year's worth of Pro12 debate on 606.

SecretFly wrote: I also love Wayne's point.  The irony indeed.  The WRU pay off their debts and even have some change left over for Regions..... all courtesy of the blazer bedecked IRFU.  If it happens, it'll be a glorious twist to the last three or four year's worth of Pro12 debate on 606.

3 or 4 years?

I've lost count Wayne. It's all a blur. I think I'm living in a dream...or nightmare. EuroRugbyGate, BrexitGate, TrumpGate and now 20%Gate.

It must be a parallel universe I'm in.

No wisecracks!