France vs Australia November 19th

Date: Saturday, November 19
Venue: Stade de France, Paris
Kick-off: 21:00 local (20:00 GMT)
Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Assistant Referees: Wayne Barnes (England), Greg Garner (England)
TMO: Graham Hughes (England)

France: 15 Scott Spedding, 14 Noa Nakaitaci, 13 Rémi Lamerat, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Virimi Vakatawa, 10 Jean-Marc Doussain, 9 Maxime Machenaud, 8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Kévin Gourdon, 6 Charles Ollivon, 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Sébastian Vahaamahina, 3 Uini Atonio, 2 Guilhelm Guirado (c), 1 Cyril Baille
Replacements: 16 Camille Chat, 17 Xavier Chiocci, 18 Rabah Slimani, 19 Julien Le Devedec, 20 Damien Chouly, 21 Baptiste Serin, 22 Camille Lopez, 23 Gaël Fickou

Australia: 15 Luke Morahan, 14 Sefanaia Naivalu, 13 Tevita Kuridrani, 12 Kyle Godwin, 11 Henry Speight, 10 Quade Cooper, 9 Will Genia, 8 Sean McMahon, 7 David Pocock (c), 6 Scott Fardy, 5 Rob Simmons, 4 Kane Douglas, 3 Allan Alaalatoa, 2 Tolu Latu, 1 James Slipper
Replacements (one to be omitted): 16 Stephen Moore, 17 Scott Sio, 18 Tom Robertson, 19 Will Skelton, 20 Dean Mumm, 21 Lopeti Timani, 22 Nick Phipps, 23 Bernard Foley, 24 Taqele Naiyaravoro

Thought I'd post a match thread for this one, as it could be an interesting encounter.

The Wallabies have lost their last two matches in Paris, including the 2014 game with Cheika in charge. Cheika knows what France is all about but he's fielding a second-string side.

It seems odd that the lure of a Grand Slam means a match against France is given lower priority. It's not as if the last French teams to beat Australia were any great shakes. The 2012 winners finished last in the next Six Nations, while Cheika lost to the team which ended up finishing 4th.

Aside from the Green and Gold website, most pundit predictions see it as a win for the Wallabies but bookies odds have been moving towards France. I think Les Bleus have a chance this weekend.

I think that if it wasn't for the injuries we had last week (4 including a broken arm for roor Trinh Duc who seems to get injured every time he gets selected) we would have been favourites even against Australia A team. Like you said worst French teams than the Noves managed to get win against them. Granted it was only Samoa but 2 years ago we would be winning only by 10 points difference. Now you can see the benefits of good coaching and the extra time spent together as a team : backs are running proper support lines and we even have some set moves now (did you imagine that under PSA era?). I like what Noves did in Argentina with limited player availabilities , discovering a new backrow in the process (funnily enough composed entirely of number 8s).
That backrow and our centres (lamerat-fofana is probably the best combo have seen here since the Jauzion days) is what dismantled Samoa (but have to say we have yet to see what it will do against proper opposition). The team starting is pretty much the one that finished last week so no real surprise there specially as it's built around the performing Clermont backline (12-13-14-15 with 10 on the bench). There is still areas of concerns such as the inability of our wingers to defend (specially Vakatawa) and questions on our LHs quality (with ben arous and poirot being injured).

whocares I am ignorant when it comes to some of the French pack. Notably the newest members. Would you mind enlightening me?

Looks like quite an inexperienced French pack.

Stating the obvious but I feel that Picamoles and Guirado's importance are elevated.

Backline looks more promising though I don't like Doussain or Spedding.

Personally I felt that last week with Scotland vs Australia is that Australia's 10 and 15 won their personal battles, Foley and Folau vs Russell and Hogg. Perhaps not the only reason the Aussies won but it certainly helped.

All 4 starting wingers and the 24th man for Oz are Fijian born

BamBam wrote:All 4 starting wingers and the 24th man for Oz are Fijian born

I think its disgraceful that they are poaching all this potential talent and denying them a chance to play for England.

Utterly disgraceful, couldn't agree more

This is a very interesting game for me. France battered Ireland into submission in the six nations and were also quite cynical in that match. I wonder will they look to beat the Aussies up in this game too?

In any case Im sure it will be very physical and should soften the Aussies up a bit for their visit to Dublin. I am hoping for a France win in any case.

beshocked wrote:whocares I am ignorant when it comes to some of the French pack. Notably the newest members. Would you mind enlightening me?

Looks like quite an inexperienced French pack.

Stating the obvious but I feel that Picamoles and Guirado's importance are elevated.

Backline looks more promising though I don't like Doussain or Spedding.

.

Baille is a young prospect LH prop from Toulouse, not sure he can last a full game - far from the finished article yet but a hard worker.
The others members of the tight 5 have been regulars since the PSA era, even Vahaamahina who used to be a bit of liability at times so hope he has improved his discipline. Real Novelty is the backrow with 2 flankers who often play at 8 for their clubs (Goujon, Gourdon or Ollivon) but are quite mobile ones with good hands. Gourdon in particular was often playing like an extra centre last week which is an nice change form the days where we had a centre who was in fact an extra forward....

Am not a fan of Doussain either but there is no real obvious choice at 10 given Lopez wasn't in the group before and Plisson (who was the backup to trinh duc) has been rubbish so far this season. Spedding is not an exciting FB (like Dulin maybe) but he tends to delivers good performances all the time.

France have been less than the sum of their parts for the last few years. If France are playing 3 No. 8s vs Pocock, the balance may be found wanting. It is a monstrous front 5 although Aus have gone that route as well.

Don't know much about Lamerat and Spedding is consistent at 15 without being great. The half backs are lacking in France at the moment. Need to settle on a top option and a back-up.

I think Aus will beat France in a close match. Aus match up well against teams with big packs that try to bully them (with 3 locks on the bench they do not lack size). France play a bit more than bully ball Wales and SA but do not have the half backs to consistently take advantage of Aus.

Id be tempted to put a sneaky fiver on France on this one. They surely cant be as bad as they were in the 6 nations.

what odds do you get in Ireland GG? French bookies tend to favour a France win.

My worry against Australia is that we might get schooled at the breakdown but the thing I like about them is that they hardly kick from hand which is one of France weakness (specially the wingers).

Rugby Fan wrote:
It seems odd that the lure of a Grand Slam means a match against France is given lower priority. It's not as if the last French teams to beat Australia were any great shakes. The 2012 winners finished last in the next Six Nations, while Cheika lost to the team which ended up finishing 4th.

Well, the aim was a grand slam tour which only applies to UK and Ireland teams right? So if anyone was to state otherwise then they'd be wrong. I do agree, however, that it seems odd that Cheika would risk a loss here in between the other matches. If Aus achieved that Grand Slam then a loss here right in the middle appears as an ugly stain. I can't call this match either as I know so little about French rugby these days, but like to reminisce about just how good Les Bleus used to be.

uncle_nigel wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:
It seems odd that the lure of a Grand Slam means a match against France is given lower priority. It's not as if the last French teams to beat Australia were any great shakes. The 2012 winners finished last in the next Six Nations, while Cheika lost to the team which ended up finishing 4th.

Well, the aim was a grand slam tour which only applies to UK and Ireland teams right? So if anyone was to state otherwise then they'd be wrong. I do agree, however, that it seems odd that Cheika would risk a loss here in between the other matches. If Aus achieved that Grand Slam then a loss here right in the middle appears as an ugly stain. I can't call this match either as I know so little about French rugby these days, but like to reminisce about just how good Les Bleus used to be.

I understand that a Grand Slam is something the ARU can sell, because it has history. It just seems unwise to schedule a match in the middle against significant opposition if you know you will field a second choice team.

If the Wallabies win, then everything looks great. I'm just curious how Australia would have approached this match if France were 6 Nations champions, or at least had a better recent record. Would the Grand Slam be so attractive an achievement that it would be worth risking a loss to France?

There is an outside chance defeat would threaten Australia's top 4 ranking, especially if Ireland and England also win.

Did Aus also face the Barbarians or did I imagine that? Each year they seem to play more matches than other teams; it's like the ARU are trying to flog them to the point of exhaustion. France likely would have been held in high regard if they were 6N champs, but they've been far from that for a good while. Either way I wouldn't take a France team with that forward pack lightly.

The idea to make a lot of changes is made worse by the fact that Aus are playing against strong England and Ireland teams in stellar form, so they could really do with the win out in Paris.

Yes some sort of Australian B team is facing the French Barbarians on Thursday in Bordeaux. not sure the players involved will be seen again but might be wrong.

whocares wrote:Yes some sort of Australian B team is facing the French Barbarians on Thursday in Bordeaux. not sure the players involved will be seen again but might be wrong.

Thanks, but what I meant was, did the Wallabies play against Baa-baa's before facing Wales or is it something I imagined? I remember the Baa-baa's playing somebody and they seem to often play Aus when touring the NH.

Baabas played SA and Fidji right?

uncle_nigel wrote:

whocares wrote:Yes some sort of Australian B team is facing the French Barbarians on Thursday in Bordeaux. not sure the players involved will be seen again but might be wrong.

Thanks, but what I meant was, did the Wallabies play against Baa-baa's before facing Wales or is it something I imagined? I remember the Baa-baa's playing somebody and they seem to often play Aus when touring the NH.

Wales was the first match for Australia. Still you've got five full tests in what is supposed to be a three Test international window, so it's a big commitment even without the extra game against the French Barbarians. I think Australia is the only team playing five Tests.

Yeah that must be it then. Plus Aus have that extra bledisloe game against NZ, so they certainly have a lot on.

Without overplaying the Wallabies we wouldn't have money to keep all the blokes we need to keep in order to play all the extra games we play. Or something like that, I think.

boomeranga wrote:Without overplaying the Wallabies we wouldn't have money to keep all the blokes we need to keep in order to play all the extra games we play. Or something like that, I think.

Makes sense considering the pull RL and the AFL have in Australia.

Is the game on TV?

Close but no cigar. Couple of well taken tries. A bit schooled at the breakdown as expected but should really have scored at the end when they were dominating. Not sure what to take of that performance , next week might probably be too much.

only watched the second half, but very entertaining rugby. Thought France was the better side in the second half, and should have won it.

Yeah the only positive is that I got more pleasure in watching France during the last 2 games than in the 5 years preceding those. Hope they can get some results now.
Well done Australia, performance with plenty of grit.

First time I've watched France since last 6N, and the improvement is rather impressive. They look like a proper team again, who've actually been coached, and no longer believe the only way to win is to bludgeon the opposition into submission up front. Having said that, this was far from Aus's strongest team, and France still couldn't get the win, so a bit disappointing.

whocares wrote:Yeah the only positive is that I got more pleasure in watching France during the last 2 games than in the 5 years preceding those. Hope they can get some results now.
Well done Australia, performance with plenty of grit.

It's a big positive, whocares. I thought France might not recover from there slide so soon. They played beautiful rugby. The France of old. Very good signs for the 6Ns.

Munchkin wrote:

whocares wrote:Yeah the only positive is that I got more pleasure in watching France during the last 2 games than in the 5 years preceding those. Hope they can get some results now.
Well done Australia, performance with plenty of grit.

It's a big positive, whocares. I thought France might not recover from there slide so soon. They played beautiful rugby. The France of old. Very good signs for the 6Ns.

I hope that's true, however considering the changes made by Aus this is an impressive win. Just for future reference, how did you watch this game?

Too often I felt that France looked for contact instead of passing the ball. Sure they scored some nice tries when they decided that passing was a good idea but there was a significant overlap at the end in about 77th minute which would have won the game.

Improvements yes but still a bit more control needed in my opinion. Australia were much more structured.

Agree Beshocked - Spedding ruined a 4v1 overlap that would have almost certainly lead to a try - believe he was guilty of a similar bad choice. that's where you see his limitations and he's not the right FB to play an expansive game.

whocares I think you should look at the game as France moving in the right direction.

Still things to work on - notably in my opinion better decision making, not looking for contact as much.

Most important thing I'd work on is passing of the forwards. That no 3 in particular his ball skills were close to non existent, big powerful man but not the skill.

Draw in the defenders then pass, France did it occasionally but not enough.

England are becoming a more rounded team because the overall skillset of the forwards has improved. Blending backs and forwards.

France should look to do the same.

France certainly have athleticism,strength and indeed showed a bit of X factor, they did break down Australia on a few occasions but didn't sustain it throughout the game.

Perhaps this will happen with more gametime but it's what you need to move towards.

Yes Atonio was a bit useless going forward (I think he did try to do an offload once but there was no support!).
generally, French locks do not really pass as well, you wont find someone like Itoje coming through our ranks anytime soon ! - tall athletic young guys who are not clumsy end up playing basketball or even handball over here. At least our backrowers are looking more gifted with ball in hand now and add something in attack but that was at the expense of having a proper breakdown specialist or even a top tackler. It's ok against tier 2 nations but we will be found out against the top 5.

Paul Jedraisiak (who is injured just now) and Sébastien Vahaamahina should be the starting lock pairing for France. Both can break tackles, offload well but also operate as auxiliary flankers at the breakdown. If Noves can get over his allegiance to Toulouse and picks the best players available for a quick game plan ie. not Jean-Marc Doussain at 10!!! then France have the opportunity to be a dangerous side again.
For the future a young lock, Arthur Itturia, is also ripping it up at Clermont this season. going on 70 yard weaving runs, scoring directly from a catch in a lineout and also running it in from around the 22 for a crucial score for Clermont at the weekend.