Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

[dyrewolfe]

First topic message reminder :

Looks a tough job for Ricciardo now at RB going forward. I imagine that smile will be permanently turned upside down, from next season.

Still think Hamilton can take many positives out of this season, even if he gets pipped to the title. He won the qualifying head to head & in race pace, the gap between himself & Nico is still sizeable. He's also strengthened his legacy by surpassing Prost in total wins & is now only eight poles behind Schumacher. Even yesterday, Verstappen pretty much schooled everybody, apart from a faultless Hamilton, which just showcases the class of Lewis.

Its a real shame as those 3 engine failures have effectively cost him the title. The only DNF Rosberg has suffered was when they took each other out on the first lap in Spain.

Suppose you could say Lewis should have done better in Singapore and Azerbaijan, but the fact remains that with better reliability, Lewis would be looking at a 4th title.

[Jermaine2015]

TBH the 2014 Bottas would've been ideal. But the last two years Bottas has been pretty below par. Struggling to put veteran Massa away. Maybe he'll wake up from him slump in a new environment...but I'm not convinced.

Also I'm talking about the WCC battle if Red Bull are stronger contenders in 2017. Granted 300 points is an arse kicking

[CaledonianCraig]

TBH the 2014 Bottas would've been ideal. But the last two years Bottas has been pretty below par. Struggling to put veteran Massa away. Maybe he'll wake up from him slump in a new environment...but I'm not convinced.

Also I'm talking about the WCC battle if Red Bull are stronger contenders in 2017. Granted 300 points is an arse kicking

Such is the strength of the Mercedes - even Bottas driving at recent levels I think will still be able to get his fair share of podiums and maybe even the odd race win. If the regs don't shake things up enough then that sort of performance would be enough to seal the constructors championship assuming Hamilton is the man to beat.

[Jermaine2015]

I think Bottas' confidence was damaged by Ferrari's will they/won't they approach back in 2015. Bottas became unsettle. Maybe going to Mercedes might make the penny drop

[GSC]

Suspect it was more Williams falling back to midfield once the Merc engine lost some of its major advantage. It's not a good package outside of that. But he hasn't really taken Massa to the cleaners as you'd expect a good driver to.

[CaledonianCraig]

Suspect it was more Williams falling back to midfield once the Merc engine lost some of its major advantage. It's not a good package outside of that. But he hasn't really taken Massa to the cleaners as you'd expect a good driver to.

I'd agree with that. The Williams package was not as strong as the Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes or Force India so to expect great results from Bottas is a bit tough. Main thing is that he wouldn't make waves making for a far calmer relationship between the two drivers in the team and Bottas is no mug behind the wheel of an F1 car. Something of an ideal fit for Mercedes just now I'd say and he wouldn't come at as great a cost as Alonso or Vettel.

[Jermaine2015]

Vettel has said he will honour his contract with Ferrari. As of yet Ferrari haven't said anything about the rumours. No way he leaves.

McLaren issued the 'Fernando's happy and wants' to stay typical PR statement. Why did they issue that unless Alonso is genuinely trying to leave?

[GSC]

Because there's a lot of noise

[Jermaine2015]

Because there's a lot of noise

Seems like McLaren are stoking the flames themselves...no other team has said a word

[Fernando]

French GP Returns in 2018 at Paul Ricard, Possibly alternating with Magny Cours

[GSC]

Shareholders tend to get twitchy after the CEO gets punted

[dyrewolfe]

Nico deserves the title because he's been the best overall driver over the entire season. qualify it how you like.

Enjoying better reliability is an odd measure of "best" don't you think? Nico only beat Lewis by 5 points and won 9 races to Lewis' 10 victories. Thats despite Hamilton having to start at the back of the grid at least twice (that I remember) due to engine / gearbox issues. Then there were his in-race engine mode issues in Baku and his engine blow-up in Singapore. Lewis also out-qualified Nico with 11 poles to 7.

So by those measures, at least, Lewis was the better driver over the season.

Seems the team bosses agree...

https://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127328/team-bosses-name-hamilton-2016-best-driver

AUTOSPORT'S 2016 TEAM BOSS'S TOP 10

1 Lewis Hamilton, 234 points (No change)
2 Max Verstappen, 183 (Up two places)
3 Nico Rosberg, 176 (No change)
4 Daniel Ricciardo, 133 (Up five)
5 Sebastian Vettel, 90 (Down three)
6 Fernando Alonso, 67 (No change)
7 Kimi Raikkonen, 61 (Up three)
8 Sergio Perez, 52 (No change)
9 Valtteri Bottas, 26 (Down two)
10 Carlos Sainz Jr, 25 (New entry)

[dyrewolfe]

French GP Returns in 2018 at Paul Ricard, Possibly alternating with Magny Cours

Saw that on the news last night. Don't think I've ever seen a race on that circuit...hopefully make an interesting change. Alternating with Magny Cours would be nice...I remember some good races there (Alonso in his Renault vs Schumacher in his Ferrari).

[Fernando]

Enjoying better reliability is an odd measure of "best" don't you think? Nico only beat Lewis by 5 points and won 9 races to Lewis' 10 victories. Thats despite Hamilton having to start at the back of the grid at least twice (that I remember) due to engine / gearbox issues. Then there were his in-race engine mode issues in Baku and his engine blow-up in Singapore. Lewis also out-qualified Nico with 11 poles to 7.

Out of interest then does this mean you don't count Hamilton's title in 2008 or it's severely tarnished like Nico's supposedly is since he won it by a point but Massa broke down more times then him? There was one breakdown between the 2 and that was Felipe engine blowing in Australia.

I expect not

[CaledonianCraig]

Enjoying better reliability is an odd measure of "best" don't you think? Nico only beat Lewis by 5 points and won 9 races to Lewis' 10 victories. Thats despite Hamilton having to start at the back of the grid at least twice (that I remember) due to engine / gearbox issues. Then there were his in-race engine mode issues in Baku and his engine blow-up in Singapore. Lewis also out-qualified Nico with 11 poles to 7.

Out of interest then does this mean you don't count Hamilton's title in 2008 or it's severely tarnished like Nico's supposedly is since he won it by a point but Massa broke down more times then him? There was one breakdown between the 2 and that was Felipe engine blowing in Australia.

I expect not

Totally different set of circumstances in 2008 though.

1 Massa and Hamilton drove for different teams.

2 Ferrari were a fraction better of a car that year than McLaren (unlike this year when Hamilton and Rosberg drove the same car).

3. Massa converted far less of his poles that seaon into wins which was key.

4. Massa's two DNF's were unlike Hamilton's key one this year. Massa had an engine failure whilst down the field in the Australian Grand Prix and in the next race he spun-off so was driver error. Hamilton DNF  this year came when he was leading with 16 laps to go and his engine blew.

[Fernando]

That's all irrelevant im afraid Craig literally the 1st 3 excuses is a bunch of crap frankly the only one that holds a slight modicum of weight is no.4 If you want to be a hypocrite that's ok but if you want to trash Nico's over reliability then Lewis' will be tarnished aswell however much you want to try make excuses.

[CaledonianCraig]

That's all irrelevant im afraid Craig If you want to be a hypocrite that's ok but if you want to trash Nico's over reliability then Lewis' will be tarnished aswell however much you want to try make excuses.

Its as relevant as you want to make it - or brush it under the carpet depending on your views on this comparison.

[Fernando]

I don't mind either way it's hilarious watching some of you cry over Nico beating Lewis the better man won weather you like to admit it or not. I thought it was good and fairly even considering Lewis didn't really return to form until the Radio Rules were removed.

[CaledonianCraig]

I don't mind either way it's hilarious watching some of you cry over Nico beating Lewis the better man won weather you like to admit it or not. I thought it was good and fairly even considering Lewis didn't really return to form until the Radio Rules were removed.

Whose crying? Not me. I am delighted a drab F1 season is over. Hopefully, its new owners can set about transforming it.

[Fernando]

Go back and read through the last few pages I wouldn't get your hopes up bigger tyres and more aero expecting a similar style to 2011-2013 when RB dominated.

[CaledonianCraig]

Go back and read through the last few pages I wouldn't get your hopes up bigger tyres and more aero expecting a similar style to 2011-2013 when RB dominated.

Yes but these are the current owners changes for the future so as I say hopefully the new owners can change things for the better in the long term.

[Fernando]

They only chance that happens is when the agreement runs out with the teams (think 2018 or 2020) to put their print on F1 so gna be a while yet.

[CaledonianCraig]

They only chance that happens is when the agreement runs out with the teams (think 2018 or 2020) to put their print on F1 so gna be a while yet.

Yes but we can but hope. Changes I'd like is leeway for more innovations, less constraints on car design, more teams, better spreading of finances and more circuits that are better for overtaking being visited. Just for starters. You?

[Fernando]

Personally id go back to V8-10 leave the battery stuff to the WEC teams. Strip back the aero so can follow cars but bring in the ground effect. Try persaude Audi to join since leaving WEC. Go back to older tracks remove tarmac runs offs. Set up a decent fair prize system not so big a gap where it's done by points.

[CaledonianCraig]

Personally id go back to V8-10 leave the battery stuff to the WEC teams. Strip back the aero so can follow cars but bring in the ground effect. Try persaude Audi to join since leaving WEC. Go back to older tracks remove tarmac runs offs. Set up a decent fair prize system not so big a gap where it's done by points.

Yes I do feel more engine suppliers should be looked to be enticed into the sport. And yes get rid of the tarmac run-offs which only encourages drivers to cut corners etc. Gravel traps would put a stop to that. And yes the prize pot needs looking at.

[Jermaine2015]

Stoffel has confirmed he will use #2 as his number. Stroll will be using #18

[dyrewolfe]

That's all irrelevant im afraid Craig literally the 1st 3 excuses is a bunch of crap frankly the only one that holds a slight modicum of weight is no.4 If you want to be a hypocrite that's ok but if you want to trash Nico's over reliability then Lewis' will be tarnished aswell however much you want to try make excuses.

I think this is the most idiotic thing I've ever seen you post. So idiotic in fact that I can only assume you're trolling.

Since when was having to fight your way from the back of the grid NOT an issue? By the time Lewis got near the front Nico was well in control of the races. Same thing with the engine mode issue...if you can't get full power from your engine, you're obviously going to have problems overtaking people in front of you.

And as for Lewis' engine failure in Singapore, consider this. Had he finished that race, he would have won the title by 20 points, instead of Nico winning by 5.


So, yes, Nico was good enough to benefit from Lewis' misfortune, but thats all. He's not the first driver to win a title due to consistency and reliability and probably won't be the last. But to say he was the best driver over the season is simply false.

And its not just me you're arguing with...its the team bosses too.

Personally id go back to V8-10 leave the battery stuff to the WEC teams. Strip back the aero so can follow cars but bring in the ground effect. Try persaude Audi to join since leaving WEC. Go back to older tracks remove tarmac runs offs. Set up a decent fair prize system not so big a gap where it's done by points.

At least you're talking sense here...

As for the prize money, just scrapping the additional team bonuses enjoyed by Merc, RB, Ferrari, Williams and McLaren would give them an additional £280m to award to the rest of the teams.

Don't think there is too much wrong with the current system. They just need to end the bonuses to the top teams and increase the prize pot shared by the teams, based on results. Oh and they also need to extend the results-based money to all 11 teams, not just the top 10.

Think I've already posted this before, (and its a couple of years out of date now), but its worth remembering the gulf between the top teams and the lesser ones...

[Jermaine2015]

If they try and redistribute the prize money ratio it's highly likely the big names like Ferrari/Mercedes/Red Bull would quit F1 and form a breakaway series.

[GSC]

If Lewis doesn't blow up in Malaysia maybe Nico approaches the final races in a different manner. If Lewis gets off the line in Australia maybe the entire championship is different.

What actually happened is more important.

[Fernando]

I love the good if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle argument

I assume DW is trolling since he can't tell the difference between Singapore & Malaysia and thinks that Hamilton putting the car into a wrong mode isn't his own fault (A mode Nico found his way out of)

[GSC]

As I recall there was a quote from someone who spoke to Nico at the airport after Australia, and he said he knew Lewis wasn't getting off the line because he hasn't done the start procedure correctly

[dyrewolfe]

I love the good if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle argument

I assume DW is trolling since he can't tell the difference between Singapore & Malaysia and thinks that Hamilton putting the car into a wrong mode isn't his own fault (A mode Nico found his way out of)

I know ifs and buts don't change the outcome, but its still a better argument than saying Nico was the best driver this season.

And you're really clutching at straws picking up on me getting the circuit name wrong - they're both in south-east Asia, so there!

The fact remains that Hamilton was considerably more disadvantaged over the season, than his team mate. Of course we don't know if he would have won the title, had he enjoyed the same reliability as Rosberg, but looking at his performances when he had no issues, its not unreasonable to assume so.

[dyrewolfe]

If they try and redistribute the prize money ratio it's highly likely the big names like Ferrari/Mercedes/Red Bull would quit F1 and form a breakaway series.

Well Ferrari might, but then they receive an obscene amount in bonuses anyway, so obviously they would take the biggest hit. However, according to a "re-balance" I did, based on my recommendations, all but 2 teams would be better off.

Ferrari do take a huge hit...but then its not like they are short of money. McLaren also lose out - but they also have a pretty healthy road car business. The idea is to make the sport more affordable for privateer teams like Williams, Force India, Sauber etc. who depend more on prize money than the manufacturer teams.

Red Bull also get slightly reduced prize money...but then they are one of the biggest corporations in the world.

This is how my re-balance panned out (again using 2014 data):




Seriously - how is it that Merc won the constructors' title but only got £62 million, while Ferrari finished 4th but got £175 million? Does that not strike you as wrong?

[GSC]

Reality is if Ferrari and to a lesser extent McLaren walk, everyone gets a slice of a much smaller pie. Knowing that I'd love to see someone telling them they're getting 125m less under a new formula.

Not sure what the Italian for **** off is but you'd find out.

[dyrewolfe]

Reality is if Ferrari and to a lesser extent McLaren walk, everyone gets a slice of a much smaller pie. Knowing that I'd love to see someone telling them they're getting 125m less under a new formula.

Not sure what the Italian for **** off is but you'd find out.

I'd quite happily tell Ferrari to f*** off if they don't like it. They get around £150 million just for turning up, which is disgusting IMO, when you have back of the grid teams struggling to make ends meet and getting awarded a paltry £5-6 million at the end of the season.

F1 would continue. If it can survive becoming an aero-dominated formula, where overtaking aids are necessary, worsened by an increasing number of tracks where overtaking is nigh on impossible, dwindling crowds and relatively new circuits dropping off the calendar due to lack of interest, it can survive without the patronage of Maranello and the tifosi.

The reward system in F1 has been totally screwed up by Bernie's willingness to do back room deals with the top teams and balance needs to be restored.

Ferrari may take their ball and go home, but I would be willing to wager they'd come back after a few years at most. As much as people say F1 needs Ferrari, but they forget Ferrari also get a lot of added prestige from their association with the sport.

I would say they have too much history to walk away from it. Where would they go?

Set up a rival series? Good luck with that. Enter endurance racing, touring cars or one of the lesser open-seater series? They could but I doubt they'd get the same level of sponsorship or brand exposure...


The reward system needs shaking up so its not just a constant fight between the top 5 teams. Making the prize money awards merit-based would be a start. The top teams still have lucrative sponsorship deals to fall back on.

[GSC]

You might happily say it, people that like making money probably wouldn't.

[CaledonianCraig]

I think it all depends on how the new owners want to set out their stall really.

Same old, same old and not wanting to upset the marque F1 teams then things will stay as they are payment-wise. However, if they really want to make their own mark on the sport then they will move to shake things up and not be afraid of calling Ferrari and McLaren's bluff. They may see changing payments to teams as a way of luring othr big motor manufacturers to the sport and more teams to boot. Who knows?

[Jermaine2015]

TBH Ferrari carried the sport in the early years so they somewhat deserve the loyalty payments they receive. Without Ferrari, F1 becomes vastly less prestigious.

[CaledonianCraig]

TBH Ferrari carried the sport in the early years so they somewhat deserve the loyalty payments they receive. Without Ferrari, F1 becomes vastly less prestigious.

Less prestigious? If less prestigious means more exciting races but Ferrari can't hack getting less money then I'd say adios to Ferrari tomorrow.

As someone said earlier Ferrari needs F1 a lot more than they pretend. What would they do if they left F1? Enter sportscar racing, NASCAR etc etc where they'd get far less media coverage, far less interest and probably far less money anyway? They'd be moving into different ball game where they wouldn't be able to demand huge sums of money and they'd have to start from scratch and most probably have to be a mid to rear grid team until they get a hang of regulations etc. I cannot see them doing that.

[GSC]

As suspected Bottas is Wolffs first choice. Williams have turned down a reduction of over 50% in their engine fees and Weirlein. They and Martini don't want 2 youngsters in the car.

Paddy Lowe expected to join Williams, Allison to Merc

[Fernando]

It appears Rory Byrne is behind the 2017 Ferrari that'll be interesting. Much like Newey he's one for pushing the regulations to the absolute limits of legality

[GSC]

Williams in talks with Massa for another year.

Doesn't take much to connect the dots with Bottle to Merc

[Trebs]

Bottas is the best option for Mercedes as much as I would love to see Alonso vs Hamilton II.

Although I think I'm happier with the possibility of Felipe Massa coming back, always loved the guy

[GSC]

Massa to return in 2017, Bottas to Merc

There goes any chance of a good fight next year in the Merc.

[Jermaine2015]

McLaren have removed Jost Capito

[Guest]

Bottas to Merc

There goes any chance of a good fight next year in the Merc.

Bottas is no slouch, is a quick driver & backed by Mika Hakkinen & Wolff, who clearly rate him. Just needs the opportunity, like Rosberg was given. When Williams were competitive in 2014, he achieved six podiums, three back-to-back & finished fourth in the WDC. There is no doubting his speed or consistency, hence why Mercedes have taken him & he's also beaten Daniel Ricciardo in Formula Renault prior to F1, so when given an opportunity to shine, he's taken it. Can pretty much see why people are putting Bottas down already, it's so when he is competitive next season, they have ammunition against Hamilton, as to why he isn't trouncing him. Seen it all before.

All this probably won't matter though, seeing as the championship & media focus will be on Red Bull next year, entering an aero formula.

[Jermaine2015]

TBH Bottas is a good driver but he lacks that star appeal his fellow Finns Mika and Kimi had. Bottas is fastest enough to keep Hamilton honest. And should opportunities arise he's good enough to win races.

Now considering the regulation changes Red Bull might be closer but they have no clear #1. Mercedes have essentially got Hamilton for the championship and should Ferrari produce anything half decent Vettel will be the one backed for the championship

It plays into Hamilton(and perhaps Vettel's hands) as the Rec Bulls will take points of each other

[GSC]

Bottas to Merc

There goes any chance of a good fight next year in the Merc.

Bottas is no slouch, is a quick driver & backed by Mika Hakkinen & Wolff, who clearly rate him. Just needs the opportunity, like Rosberg was given. When Williams were competitive in 2014, he achieved six podiums, three back-to-back & finished fourth in the WDC. There is no doubting his speed or consistency, hence why Mercedes have taken him & he's also beaten Daniel Ricciardo in Formula Renault prior to F1, so when given an opportunity to shine, he's taken it. Can pretty much see why people are putting Bottas down already, it's so when he is competitive next season, they have ammunition against Hamilton, as to why he isn't trouncing him. Seen it all before.

All this probably won't matter though, seeing as the championship & media focus will be on Red Bull next year, entering an aero formula.

As opposed to bigging him up to achieve the opposite effect...

[Fernando]

26 March Australia - Sky only
9 April China - Sky only
16 April Bahrain - Sky + Channel 4
30 April Russia - Sky + Channel 4
14 May Spain - Sky only
28 May Monaco - Sky + Channel 4
11 June Canada - Sky only
25 June Azerbaijan - Sky + Channel 4
9 July Austria - Sky only
16 July Great Britain - Sky + Channel 4
30 July Hungary - Sky only
27 August Belgium - Sky + Channel 4
3 September Italy - Sky only
17 September Singapore - Sky + Channel 4
1 October Malaysia - Sky + Channel 4
8 October Japan - Sky only
22 October USA - Sky + Channel 4
29 October Mexico - Sky only
12 November Brazil - Sky only
26 November Abu Dhabi - Sky + Channel 4

[dyrewolfe]

Looks like there could well be only 10 teams on the grid next season. Manor have gone into administration.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38530855

Seems that Sauber bagging that 9th place in Brazil to move above them in the constructor's table was the straw that broke the camel's back (cost them an estimated £10 million in prize money).

The top 5 would do well to look at how the other half live...

[Fernando]

Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes

[Sponsored content]