Brexit

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Funniest thing to happen in years. Have been following the craziness on the FT. Despite the implications if our current crop of retards manage to push it through I can't remember when I've read the news everyday without fail and learned something new. What does everyone think of the possibility that we stay in the single market, retain freedom of movement. Pay into the EU coffers and lose our vote ??

Shah and Toppy have brightened up my day. Good effort lads - saves me typing out a ranty e-mail at the sheer f*ckwittery of it all.

Nah, all the Supreme Court is going to do is confirm that, as more Brexit voters SAY they voted for, sovereignty of UK Parliament is/should be absolute.

Always makes me laugh that Brexit voters have a Court agreeing with the principle they voted for..........but they get really upset because it's not the way they wanted that principle to work for them.

Bunch of self-serving politicians are never going to over-turn the referendum result.

superflyweight wrote:Shah and Toppy have brightened up my day.  Good effort lads - saves me typing out a ranty e-mail at the sheer f*ckwittery of it all.  

Fortune makes for strange bedfellows although in top hats case you must have been sleeping on the sea bed, fly.

And you and the other whiners and crybaby's that can't accept you lost the vote are continuing to contribute to why nothing will be sorted out properly. Toppy if we have to count more on ourselves than outside countries then our industries should start to get better.

I'm not quite sure how you want me individually to fix it Shah but there's certain things that could (and should be changed). If your side (and yourselves) would have concentrated more on talking about what could happen instead of calling everyone racists then maybe we wouldn't be in this 'mess' (which imo is being dragged out by the 'remainers' to busy still crying over the result.)

I'd vote for leave again tomorrow just to watch some of you lose your minds over it all again. There are other options open to you you realise ;-)

TopHat24/7 wrote:Nah, all the Supreme Court is going to do is confirm that, as more Brexit voters SAY they voted for, sovereignty of UK Parliament is/should be absolute.

Always makes me laugh that Brexit voters have a Court agreeing with the principle they voted for..........but they get really upset because it's not the way they wanted that principle to work for them.

Bunch of self-serving politicians are never going to over-turn the referendum result.

Can you explain this Toppy as i don't get it, Brexit's going just as i thought it would, back and forth trying to get the best deal we can for us (if we didn't i'm sure you'd be moaning (quite rightly btw) that the government weren't doing what's best.

Anyone who thought it would be a completely easy ride if it was voted for is a plum anyway, we've got uncertainty to get through first and then see what happens, right now i don't see why people aren't working together but that's just me.

We haven't started Brexit yet. There is no back and forth.

Derbymanc wrote:And you and the other whiners and crybaby's that can't accept you lost the vote are continuing to contribute to why nothing will be sorted out properly. Toppy if we have to count more on ourselves than outside countries then our industries should start to get better.

I'm not quite sure how you want me individually to fix it Shah but there's certain things that could (and should be changed). If your side (and yourselves) would have concentrated more on talking about what could happen instead of calling everyone racists then maybe we wouldn't be in this 'mess' (which imo is being dragged out by the 'remainers' to busy still crying over the result.)

I'd vote for leave again tomorrow just to watch some of you lose your minds over it all again. There are other options open to you you realise ;-)

I know you would that's why I insult you, because you're an imbecile with no clue of the sh*tstorm you've unleashed upon us but you laugh at us while most of us make a lot of money out of Brexit then cry when they sell you down the river to make ends meet. If you were something of worth or intellect I would engage you in debate. Instead there's just catharsis in insulting the stupid. Like punching a bag, it's just an inanimate object with a similar intellect to you but hitting it is still fun.

Except you haven't said anything at all Shah, in any of these debates all you've said is your right and those that don't agree is wrong. A bit like my kids when i tell them not to do something and they scream and whine that they haven't.

There is no Sh*tstorm yet other than one people are trying to make up as nothing concrete has been done (other than seeing the remainers get all whiny and uptight, something I said would happen before hand).

Explain to me why Brexit is so wrong from a future and from a now standpoint and i'll listen. So far all i've heard is people decrying either side for selfish reasons with noone being able to say why or why not it's bad/good etc.

As someone who buys art from Gallerie F in Germany.......It's a little s**tstorm for me going from £1 to 1.38 euros to.....£1 to 1.15 euros......

Unfortunately, the UK waited too long leave the EU. On the evidence of mood in the UK since the vote, and here on our little 606 island, rabies unfortunately made it into the nation before May could erect her wall.

OK.  

1. We've essentially given away our negotiating power witness south Africa's response about a trade deal. We have to start changing our rules to suit our trading partners rather than then having to conform to rules we've agreed and largely influenced within the single market.
2. We've given away all our advantages in FTA agreements that we already have through the EU. This means that when Britain starts talking to people on current terms they will say...hold on we agreed these rules with a 500m market, you are going to have to step back a little.
3. We are a service based economy which provides services across Europe in an agreement not found anywhere else and it is an agreement we'd been working on to improve for years and we're finally seeing some progress in. This service based economy was why so many countries invested in the city ...because it's a gateway to Europe.  Look at what the Indians said and look at what the Chinese have said. The US banks have been operating through a backdoor in the EU through UK based passport in rights. This passporting might not change in the short term but eventually it'll go as Europe intensifies it's investment in its own infrastructure because it cannot keep its financial centre outside of its jurisdiction. So even if we retain those rights we will have to adhere to EU laws without having a say in them.
4. This is the major major loss. Does Canada have a say in US laws? Does Mexico? No. We have been punching above our weight for years because we influence laws to our benefit or opt out from ones that don't directly affect us. Now we're going to be beholden to EU laws on the eve of a possible protectionist trade war initiated by Donald the rump. We won't even be the target, we will just be collateral damage. The US banks have a massive trade advantage because US laws require banks to keep huge amounts of capital in theit jurisdiction. If the EU decides to return in kind that will require banks to split their capital into two countries if they want to trade...then there would be no financial incentive for any bank to remain in the UK as they would have to have their own presense in the EU...again back to negotiating power this is a protectionism we can't afford having been cut off from our largest market and it would royally pee off the Americans.  
5. Wto rules mean the death of our agriculture because what rules we have for one we have to have for all. So the EU and The UK being generally law abiding countries  cannot make a sneaky deal that would only give access to UK.  It would have to be a proper customs unon and that is years and years in the making unless again you want to adhere to eu laws without having a say in them. So not only will we be open to US farming economies of scale there is no quick way for the EU to give us access even if they wanted to..not without it having to open up to the rest of the world too and that ain't happening
6. The loss of the digital single market due to be starting late this year, read it up its a brilliant massive project that will enable even someone with a rudimentary understanding trade unimpeded in tech, in certain services to trade with any other EU country without laws or tariffs or a jumble of regulations getting in the way
7. NTB - the non tarriff barrier...because we're going to lowering our standards where we can to get foreigners interested in investing in businesses and jobs here. so we can trade with the EU but for customs to pass through anything will require checks that we aren't selling crap or trying to sell other countries stuff there. So watch the lorries line up from the tunnell all the way up to Nicola sturgeons ginger stuck-in-quicksand trout in Holyrood as the quality inspections go through the roof.

Each of these must have a year's worth of expansion to do and we have decided to do these in 18 months with people distracted by elections and after we've agreed our liabilities for exit. This is all I can type for the moment but there's more where that came from

Brilliant reply Shah, and a lot to think about (honestly wish we'd had more discussions like this to everyone before hand)

A lot of things i didn't realise or know about but definitely will check it out (seriously bud i appreciate it)

Derbymanc wrote:And you and the other whiners and crybaby's that can't accept you lost the vote are continuing to contribute to why nothing will be sorted out properly. Toppy if we have to count more on ourselves than outside countries then our industries should start to get better.

You won? Brilliant. What was your prize?

I've accepted Brexit. Am moving on. Don't hide your own ignorance behind calling people that simply point out flaws in yours and other Brexiteer's rationale 'whiners' and 'crybabys'.

Basically, whilst I'm sure you're a lovely bloke, you're the classic ignorant Brexit voter who summaries why there should never have been a populist vote in the first place.

Derbymanc wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Nah, all the Supreme Court is going to do is confirm that, as more Brexit voters SAY they voted for, sovereignty of UK Parliament is/should be absolute.

Always makes me laugh that Brexit voters have a Court agreeing with the principle they voted for..........but they get really upset because it's not the way they wanted that principle to work for them.

Bunch of self-serving politicians are never going to over-turn the referendum result.

Can you explain this Toppy as i don't get it, Brexit's going just as i thought it would, back and forth trying to get the best deal we can for us (if we didn't i'm sure you'd be moaning (quite rightly btw) that the government weren't doing what's best.

Anyone who thought it would be a completely easy ride if it was voted for is a plum anyway, we've got uncertainty to get through first and then see what happens, right now i don't see why people aren't working together but that's just me.

What bit do you want me to explain? We haven't even started trying to get any deals, we haven't even triggered Brexit yet (let alone 'had' it), so I don't understand what of the above you're struggling with.

We voted Brexit. We'll get Brexit. We're just going through the formal motions to get there (and they, hilariously, involve doing something the Brexiteers campaigned for but now are throwing their toys out the pram over).

No prize as of yet, wasn't stupid enough to think it would all be roses straight after anyway, just think it's a shame at the moment that instead of pulling together to get what's best we seem to be more divided than ever (I'm specifically talking about government as well, not debates like this as there's always new things to learn).

Unfortunately I can't disagree with the ignorant bit as Shah has shown i don't know that much, alas i also put that down to the remain campaign that saw too late it was no good just telling people they're ignorant, you have to say why as well or it looks like your not listening. (not that the brexit campaign was any better).

I'm not sure what Brexiteers are getting upset about Toppy, it's going along pretty much as anyone would have guessed imo

Of course we are more divided - 52% of the country voted SPECIFICALLY to divide us!!

Remain campaign was an arrogant sack of sh!t, that's why it failed.

Good to see we still agree on some things buc

TopHat24/7 wrote:Of course we are more divided - 52% of the country voted SPECIFICALLY to divide us!!

Remain campaign was an arrogant sack of sh!t, that's why it failed.

It lost because of Cameron. The son of a bitch spent the last few years posturing and dissing the EU and went over there begging for favours. Kind of like we're doing now. There was no way anyone was going to be convinced by that cretin so remain was running from behind. He also enacted austerity, used immigration fervour and extremism links to Khan. They whipped up all this hate so Miliband would be destroyed and then decided suddenly, you know what the EU isn't so bad after all. Thatcher for all her faults waited until the EU had already given the rebate (she didn't negotiate it, they were already deciding it) then came back crowing about her awesome victory. She didn't go to the EU screaming that she was going to sort them out then hand them a list of demands she knew she couldn't get. He also declined to put the word in when Juncker's name was floated behind the scenes and Sir Ivan practically begged him to nip it in the bud. Essentially what happens is the appointee's names are floated, giving the nation states a chance to nip it in the bud without causing friction afterwards. This is used for ambassadors worldwide to prevent the embarrassment of an ambassador being rejected publicly. This and 40 years of the Scum, the heil, the depress and the Telegraph's sudden descent into madness in the last two years attained critical mass and resulted in economic suicide and may have torn the fabric of our society for a decade. If anyone thinks the potential civil war caused by ignoring the leave vote would be bad, just wait until when people are actually suffering. All that helpless rage has to go somewhere.

Derby your acknowledgement does you credit but unless you've been posting on here by carrier pigeon you have the same access to the internet anyone has, you should have looked it up. I work as a security guard, i'm not a lawyer or a diplomat and it took me the best part of 2 hours cumulatively to realise what a f*cking disaster this really is. It's not perfect by any means but it's a work in progress and as major players we benefited enormously by making it as free market within it's own confines as possible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_for_workers_in_the_European_Union
http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything_but_Arms
https://ec.europa.eu/priorities/digital-single-market_en

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements#Free_trade_agreements_in_force

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Organization
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_of_the_European_Union

Alas Shah, Most of my time is spent away on the ocean waves and we don't have full access to the tinterwebs (and it takes half an hour to load google) (as you'll notice by long absense's followed by bursts of posting and then away again)

Probably why i'm quite open to listening to others and getting the info needed. Now though as we're stuck in it i think we need to band together and work towards the best.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/nissan-boss-carlos-ghosn-admits-uk-investment-will-be-reviewed-a7537586.html

Ta Ra Sunderland.

Sorry Derby but no, will fight it until they trigger it. Each and every forum for the fight I will do it. Re the thing I said about customs? Read near the bottom half of the article above and this is just financial barriers which can be offset by raising prices.

ShahenshahG wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/nissan-boss-carlos-ghosn-admits-uk-investment-will-be-reviewed-a7537586.html

Ta Ra Sunderland.

Sorry Derby but no, will fight it until they trigger it. Each and every forum for the fight I will do it. Re the thing I said about customs? Read near the bottom half of the article above and this is just financial barriers which can be offset by raising prices.

I like that attitude

Can't argue with that too much Shah, as i'm constantly complaining about people not showing enough passion or fighting for what they believe gotta give you my full respect for it

ShahenshahG wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/nissan-boss-carlos-ghosn-admits-uk-investment-will-be-reviewed-a7537586.html

Ta Ra Sunderland.

Though it was disgraceful that we sunk tax payer cash into retaining Nissan production here. Even more so given UKG won't disclose what dirty deal was done.

Sunderland voted out. It should feel the effect. It's run down as it is, let it run itself into a complete pit of dispair.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/nissan-boss-carlos-ghosn-admits-uk-investment-will-be-reviewed-a7537586.html

Ta Ra Sunderland.

Though it was disgraceful that we sunk tax payer cash into retaining Nissan production here. Even more so given UKG won't disclose what dirty deal was done.

Sunderland voted out. It should feel the effect. It's run down as it is, let it run itself into a complete pit of dispair.

No, I think the promise was one of future Tariffs, offsetting any costs picked up in future. Shows a complete lack of understanding of course, about supply chains and the NTB's so I reckon his noncommittal response (putting in two investments already due in - not the only one) was little cost to him personally and it gave the Europeans a heads up on May's strategy. So bad do all round.

https://www.ft.com/content/6447b1e8-e16d-11e6-9645-c9357a75844a

No, you were right, taxpayers money...taken from elsewhere in the north

TopHat24/7 wrote:Of course we are more divided - 52% of the country voted SPECIFICALLY to divide us!!

Remain campaign was an arrogant sack of sh!t, that's why it failed.

52% of the turned out voters, not the country.

Don't be fooled by those who say Brexit is democratic, 0% voted for leaving the single market as it was neither on the ballot or the government manifesto.

This is one of the biggest fascist stitch up's in history and 17 odd million people fell for it.

The remain campaign "failed" because those that led it were mostly part of the same scam.

The real agenda is being drip fed out now that it is too late - a totalitarian nightmare is on it's way - and today is the last obstacle in it's path.

rodders wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Of course we are more divided - 52% of the country voted SPECIFICALLY to divide us!!

Remain campaign was an arrogant sack of sh!t, that's why it failed.

52% of the turned out voters, not the country.

Don't be fooled by those who say Brexit is democratic, 0% voted for leaving the single market as it was neither on the ballot or the government manifesto.

This is one of the biggest fascist stitch up's in history and 17 odd million people fell for it.

The remain campaign "failed" because those that led it were mostly part of the same scam.

The real agenda is being drip fed out now that it is too late - a totalitarian nightmare is on it's way - and today is the last obstacle in it's path.

Quite a bleak take on it, but could so easily come to pass. Trump (and the alt-right) in control of the White House is potentially even worse.

rodders wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Of course we are more divided - 52% of the country voted SPECIFICALLY to divide us!!

Remain campaign was an arrogant sack of sh!t, that's why it failed.

52% of the turned out voters, not the country.

Don't be fooled by those who say Brexit is democratic, 0% voted for leaving the single market as it was neither on the ballot or the government manifesto.

This is one of the biggest fascist stitch up's in history and 17 odd million people fell for it.

The remain campaign "failed" because those that led it were mostly part of the same scam.

The real agenda is being drip fed out now that it is too late - a totalitarian nightmare is on it's way - and today is the last obstacle in it's path.

A lot of hubris there but I doubt it would remotely change the mind of the average Brexit voter.

It wasn't democracy and it should never have been allowed to happen. But it did.

No point getting over-excited about this morning's court decision either. 1) UKG had already conceded a vote as per TMay's last statement; and 2) Tory majority in parliament with only one known dissenter (Ken Clarke) means sabre-rattling from anti-Corbyn Labour MPs and the SNP is irrelevant. Especially as two further seats may be going from Labour to either UKIP or Tory prior to any A50 vote. 3) MPs are self-serving, they would never vote to over-turn the Brexit vote, just looks good to make revisionist noise about it.

The only significance of this mornings vote is the government needs to pretend a bit harder that they aren't a fascist dictatorship - unfortunately it doesn't change the fact that they are.

Once article 50 is invoked people we see their true colors.

When the UK escapes the ECJ it will be too late to do anything about it.

MP Gut check. Probably will fail but I suppose where there is life there is hope. An entire floor of my company staff are preparing to emigrate to the paris office, but have told us not to let the word out in public. No one wants to be pilloried in the press. Thats 48 million in income tax leaving the country by next year. The UK arm of the business will remain here thankfully so am OK for a couple of years. Is it affecting any of you guys yet?

Hopefully the business community will lobby some of those spineless MPs to put the country ahead of votes and party politics.

It would be really really funny is Philip Davies mp filibustered it

ShahenshahG wrote:It would be really really funny is Philip Davies mp filibustered it

Well any filibustering can only be drawn out for 2 years. After that we either leave with some sort of deal, or none at all. Personally I would prefer the latter, as to me Leave means Leave...all the way.

I don't want us to retain access to the single market or remain in the Customs Union, or anything else, if it means we have to accept any kind of governance from Brussels.

So in a very real sense I genuinely hope all those silly buggers in parliament just keep squabbling.

I'm still rather annoyed at the Supreme Court's decision...though of course I didn't expect anything different.


After all, we "the people" voted to leave the EU...we did NOT vote to let Parliament (who are / were mostly Remainers, in any case) decide on the terms of our exit deal.

If we accept governance from Brussels (be it in the form of continuing freedom of movement, or anything else) in exchange for continued access to the single market, then everyone who voted Leave will have been sold down the river. We will NOT have left the EU, by any reasonable definition of the word "leave".

We still have to have some anyway if we want to sell to them and we have to adhere to any regulations that they put in place afterwards to sell to them. We're totally f*cked if what you wish comes true.

ShahenshahG wrote:We still have to have some anyway if we want to sell to them and we have to adhere to any regulations that they put in place afterwards to sell to them. We're totally f*cked if what you wish comes true.

If you want to sell good or services anywhere in the world you have to comply with certain standards - thats a given. There is a world of difference between compliance with standards and being bound by all the rules and regulations that go with being a member of the EU.

I don't know how you can say Britain will be screwed if we make a clean break. We can only speculate until the actual terms of leaving are known. Whatever happens though, its not like we are going to stop trading with Europe...it will simply be under different terms. Certainly there will be a negative impact from import / export tariffs and the like...but leaving the EU (properly) was never going to be completely painless.

As athletes like to say...NO PAIN - NO GAIN!

dyrewolfe wrote:...After all, we "the people" voted to leave the EU...we did NOT vote to let Parliament (who are / were mostly Remainers, in any case) decide on the terms of our exit deal....

Can't have it both ways. Equally, you didn't vote that Parliament was to have no say in the exit terms. You just voted for out.

Also India is out as a trading partner because we effectively vetoed their trade deal with the EU due to immigration. Same I think for China really the visas and the fact that may caused Xi to ''lose face'' over the hinckley point rubbish. So we're going to be dictated to by China by the US etc etc rather than negotiating en masse and getting roughly equal terms. So if anything you've gained the illusion of sovereignty but will lose it in reality as we have to start bending over to keep both the UK and China happy. When South Africa starts dictating terms ... you know you are in trouble.

dyrewolfe wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:We still have to have some anyway if we want to sell to them and we have to adhere to any regulations that they put in place afterwards to sell to them. We're totally f*cked if what you wish comes true.

If you want to sell good or services anywhere in the world you have to comply with certain standards - thats a given. There is a world of difference between compliance with standards and being bound by all the rules and regulations that go with being a member of the EU.

India and Australia have already said a trade deal will require the UK to relax their visa rules to allow more people in. A US deal will almost certainly involve taking on some of the aspect of TTIP.

There is no trade deal which doesn't involve some pulling of sovereignty, so if sovereignty was the issue for brexiteers then I say they are deluded....actually no they are just plain stupid.

dyrewolfe wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:It would be really really funny is Philip Davies mp filibustered it

I'm still rather annoyed at the Supreme Court's decision...though of course I didn't expect anything different.

After all, we "the people" voted to leave the EU...we did NOT vote to let Parliament (who are / were mostly Remainers, in any case) decide on the terms of our exit deal.

Pretty much sums up every Brexit voter and why it's one big ignorant f*ck up.

dyrewolfe wrote:
As athletes like to say...NO PAIN - NO GAIN!

What is the gain you are expecting to follow the pain?

The repeal bill will allow the parliament you don't even trust with determining the terms of the Brexit negotiations, almost unaccountable power over your life.

You didn't vote to take back power you dummy, you just handed it to possibly the most facsist government we've ever had.

dyrewolfe wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:We still have to have some anyway if we want to sell to them and we have to adhere to any regulations that they put in place afterwards to sell to them. We're totally f*cked if what you wish comes true.

If you want to sell good or services anywhere in the world you have to comply with certain standards - thats a given. There is a world of difference between compliance with standards and being bound by all the rules and regulations that go with being a member of the EU.

Care to chuck out some examples?

Yep. Maybe it's natural selection at work. Welfare state is beautiful until the stupid who would have been killed by nature long ago outnumber the not so stupid. Then they find ways to destroy themselves. Mother nature is a big bitch.

dyrewolfe wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:We still have to have some anyway if we want to sell to them and we have to adhere to any regulations that they put in place afterwards to sell to them. We're totally f*cked if what you wish comes true.

If you want to sell good or services anywhere in the world you have to comply with certain standards - thats a given. There is a world of difference between compliance with standards and being bound by all the rules and regulations that go with being a member of the EU.

I don't know how you can say Britain will be screwed if we make a clean break. We can only speculate until the actual terms of leaving are known. Whatever happens though, its not like we are going to stop trading with Europe...it will simply be under different terms. Certainly there will be a negative impact from import / export tariffs and the like...but leaving the EU (properly) was never going to be completely painless.

As athletes like to say...NO PAIN - NO GAIN!

We can't even keep the Australians happy because freedom of people or freedom of trade will require point of origin rules otherwise China will sell us lots of dud Poopie through Australia, sort of like how the banks were using UK access to the EU to provide their services from the UK.

Dyrewolf wrote:I'm still rather annoyed at the Supreme Court's decision...though of course I didn't expect anything different.

After all, we "the people" voted to leave the EU...we did NOT vote to let Parliament (who are / were mostly Remainers, in any case) decide on the terms of our exit deal.

No point in being annoyed at the Supreme Court decision - they were interpreting and applying the law correctly.  

Be honest - did you even think about the legislative consequences of your 'Leave' vote? I assume not.

Brexit was a farce from start to finish..

Only got the referendum because the Government were scared of Ukip and they ended up hurting Labour more...

Kids could have made better arguments.......Both sides should be ashamed....

Needless referendum that will lead to jobs going...less wealth and more racial strife.

Bottom line... Don't play politics with lives.

ShahenshahG wrote:Yep. Maybe it's natural selection at work. Welfare state is beautiful until the stupid who would have been killed by nature long ago outnumber the not so stupid. Then they find ways to destroy themselves. Mother nature is a big bitch.

Well, that's certainly one way of looking at it. Mass Darwin Awards?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Brexit was a farce from start to finish..

Only got the referendum because the Government were scared of Ukip and they ended up hurting Labour more...

Kids could have made better arguments.......Both sides should be ashamed....

Needless referendum that will lead to jobs going...less wealth and more racial strife.

Bottom line... Don't play politics with lives.

Fair points, although pretty much all politics is playing with lives. Generally, though, the shysters don't have to answer (properly) for their decisions.

I hope not, because that means it will go through, for now lets nominate them for it and award it on the day the divorce is complete.