HSBC Sevens 2016/17

First topic message reminder :

Men's Dubai leg started today. England managed a clean sweep of pool wins, including a 12-26 victory over New Zealand. Scotland dropped a match to South Africa, and Wales dropped one to Fiji, but both are in the Quarter Finals.

Fiji beat Argentina 22-19 but had to survive two yellow cards along the way.

Short highlights:



Quarter Finals:

Fiji vs France
England vs Scotland
Australia vs Wales
South Africa vs New Zealand

IanBru wrote:GC, was the 'please' uttered in a really plaintive tone?

And doing this face:

I just have a new pup that does that to me. I hate her! She wrecks the place (outside and in) and just as I'm about to beat the living schidt out of her.... those damn eyes get me every time!

And yes, it's now officially embarrassing that Ireland don't have a Sevens side that can compete with our usual 6N partners. When I look at those names..... I really do say the IRFU attitude must change.

SecretFly wrote:And yes, it's now officially embarrassing that Ireland don't have a Sevens side that can compete with our usual 6N partners.  When I look at those names..... I really do say the IRFU attitude must change.

Philip Browne and Tom Grace seem to be able to accept the official embarrassment remarkably well (probably nothing to do with the costs). Anyway the IRFU would be much better served sending seven forwards to Ulster - at least in that way they might stand a chance of seeing some benefit.

The Great Aukster wrote:

SecretFly wrote:And yes, it's now officially embarrassing that Ireland don't have a Sevens side that can compete with our usual 6N partners.  When I look at those names..... I really do say the IRFU attitude must change.

Philip Browne and Tom Grace seem to be able to accept the official embarrassment remarkably well (probably nothing to do with the costs). Anyway the IRFU would be much better served sending seven forwards to Ulster - at least in that way they might stand a chance of seeing some benefit.

Ah the benefits of a top Sevens side would be good enough. Improves the fitness and conditioning methodology - that could be transferred to Ireland 15s to keep our fitness levels going up and up. Plus those instincts to run for space rather than hunch down and prepare for impact.... well, I just think these nations benefit from the cross fertilisation of ideas when they have both a good 15s and a good 7s side.

SecretFly wrote:And yes, it's now officially embarrassing that Ireland don't have a Sevens side that can compete with our usual 6N partners.  When I look at those names..... I really do say the IRFU attitude must change.

Ireland have a sevens programme, but they'll need to qualify to get on the main World Circuit. They just sent a young side to the Dubai Invitational in December, which mainly features international Academy players. The key target will be the Rugby Europe Grand Prix Series in June and July. This tournament decides which teams go to HK next year to try and qualify for promotion to the top circuit.

Ireland are in a pool with Georgia, Germany and Wales in the first round, so that will tell you where you stand. It's a 12 team tournament, and four teams (England, Wales, Russia and France) are already World Series core members. The two best finishers who are not already core members, will compete in the 2018 HK qualifier.

If Ireland win qualification, they'll play in the 2018-19 World Sevens series, which also doubles as the Olympic qualifier.

I know they now have a Sevens programme, Rugby Fan. I was just having a little fun with the idea that I believe we've come to the party late - so I'm slapping the IRFU on the knuckles.

There is also qualification for the 7s World Cup in 2018 at stake as well from European GP Series. Top 2 teams that have not qualified for the WC via the World Series go to that. At the moment, England, Wales, and France are already there, Scotland should qualify, but Russia probably will not have.

SecretFly wrote:Ah the benefits of a top Sevens side would be good enough.  Improves the fitness and conditioning methodology - that could be transferred to Ireland 15s to keep our fitness levels going up and up.  Plus those instincts to run for space rather than hunch down and prepare for impact.... well, I just think these nations benefit from the cross fertilisation of ideas when they have both a good 15s and a good 7s side.

Are Ireland really that far behind regarding fitness?

During the 2016 Olympics discussions it was mentioned that Sevens players are something like 7kg lighter than if they were playing Fifteens, so that in itself requires a different approach to match fitness. The games themselves are also poles apart, and the type of fitness needed for 14 minutes as opposed to 80 has to be totally different.

It is oft mentioned that sevens players run for space rather than contact, but modern XV defences don't leave space! If the typical 7s player moves to create a dogleg by running towards his own line, the contact comes to him and he is dumped 10m behind the gainline - and then smacked around the head by his teammates.

Not convinced there are any material benefits or cross pollination to the XVs game at all, but on the positive side Sevens is the perfect opportunity for the crowd to get into some garish costumes.

The Great Aukster wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Ah the benefits of a top Sevens side would be good enough.  Improves the fitness and conditioning methodology - that could be transferred to Ireland 15s to keep our fitness levels going up and up.  Plus those instincts to run for space rather than hunch down and prepare for impact.... well, I just think these nations benefit from the cross fertilisation of ideas when they have both a good 15s and a good 7s side.

Are Ireland really that far behind regarding fitness?

During the 2016 Olympics discussions it was mentioned that Sevens players are something like 7kg lighter than if they were playing Fifteens, so that in itself requires a different approach to match fitness. The games themselves are also poles apart, and the type of fitness needed for 14 minutes as opposed to 80 has to be totally different.

It is oft mentioned that sevens players run for space rather than contact, but modern XV defences don't leave space! If the typical 7s player moves to create a dogleg by running towards his own line, the contact comes to him and he is dumped 10m behind the gainline - and then smacked around the head by his teammates.

Not convinced there are any material benefits or cross pollination to the XVs game at all, but on the positive side Sevens is the perfect opportunity for the crowd to get into some garish costumes.

God.  I know, I know, I do kinda draw it on myself - nobody else to blame but me - but every time I mention the word conditioning or fitness I get the sense of hairs on the back of Irish fans necks going up and await the inevitable challenge to the assumptions.

So...as my latest answer to the continuing struggle of meaning around this issue, Aukster, I'll give you this - around about now we do (caution, caution) appear to be reaching the levels of evidential fitness that I've been demanding and not seeing for quite a number of years now.  So fingers crossed - I'm finally beginning to settle a little on that score. But we'll see how the 6N goes.
If I'm not seeing the evidence of the kind of fitness and conditioning I'd like to see then I'm afraid the loud mouth in me just goes ahead and says it.  I can only say it as I see it.  Over a good number of years I've seen our fitness/stamina/conditioning levels to be perhaps our main weakness in trying to turn what the coach wants into what the coach gets.

You are right that the 15 game has completely different requirements to a 7s game.  And I repeat, the reason why I'm so enthusiastic about Ireland now in recent months is because I see an improvement in the ability to sustain games through tough sequences at reasonably high tempos.  So I'm starting to feel the presence of a better conditioning system. Who knows, maybe the Provinces themselves have improved techniques and maybe Nucifora (that man again) is having a unifying effect on the techniques.  But I see it now and before, I'm sorry, but I didn't see enough of a conditioning to last through sequences of high end, high tempo games.

Now back to the 7s.  I suppose my point about fitness and 7s just goes back to a memory I had where O'Driscoll was talking to a 7s player and he was letting the 7s player know in no uncertain terms that he regarded the 7s guys and much fitter than he was ever likely to get and the tone was that their conditioning scared him a little.  Now again, yes, BOD and 15 players have to have a different form of fitness/robustness etc - but I could see where he was coming from in admiring that more highly strung level they need to be at.

I just think it's a natural that if one Nation had a good 15s and a good 7s, that there would be obvious cross-overs in mutual info and ideas.

Indeed, you just need to look at Adam Byrne, and how a summer playing sevens has changed his game. I know he has had a lot of injuries, but there is an added spring in his step this season and I'm sure that can be attributed in part to the exposure on the sevens series. Beating a full strength Samoa was a massive achievement for such a new team.

Also, look at Hoyland from Scotland, 7s to the senior squad in a year.

We now have the player numbers to really take this seriously, we have plenty of young talented players that don't get much gametime even when the internationals are away, and they would be the players that would benefit from a season on the World Series.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Can we please move on from the Wilington/alcohol related topic as I think it has well and truly been covered now.

?

A lot of strange sound bites cropping up on threads lately.... hmmm. Is it mass psychosis?

SecretFly wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Can we please move on from the Wilington/alcohol related topic as I think it has well and truly been covered now.

?

A lot of strange sound bites cropping up on threads lately.... hmmm.  Is it mass psychosis?

The offending posts have been removed

My curious side would ask what they were about because I was completely in the dark about the last one (something about someone giving out to someone about Kiwis?) - and am equally in the dark about the "Willington/alcohol" one now.

Maybe it's all wrapped up in that video above, but I haven't looked at it.

Scotland squad finally announced. They left it late, so clearly wanted to see if any injuries would clear up. Looks like they haven't. This will be a big test of their squad depth.

1. Ben Robbins 2. Gregor Hunter 3. Fraser Lyle 4. Robert Beattie 5. Glenn Bryce 6. Mark Robertson 7. Jamie Farndale
8. Nyle Godsmark 9. George Horne 10. Scott Wight (c) 11. James Fleming 12. Gavin Lowe

Scotland 7s Head Coach Calum MacRae has been forced into four changes to his squad ahead of this weekend’s HSBC World Sevens Series tournament in Sydney.

Scott Wight (Scotland 7s), Robert Beattie (Glasgow Hawks), Ben Robbins (Currie) and Gregor Hunter (Gala) all come in to replace influential injured quartet Nick McLennan (knee), James Johnstone (shoulder), Scott Riddell (abdominal) and Dougie Fife (shoulder).

Wight, who featured on day two in Wellington brings his wealth of experience to the squad and will captain the side in Riddell’s absence while Robert Beattie returns having made his debut in Cape Town.

Former Glasgow Warriors and Edinburgh Rugby stand-off Hunter and BT Sport Scottish Rugby Academy Stage 3 player Robbins are both included in a World Series squad for the first time having trained with the team at the pre-series camp.

Scotland have been drawn as top seeds in Pool C against hosts Australia, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea.

Scotland 7s Head Coach, Calum MacRae, said: “This week has been a big challenge for us as a squad having picked up a few injuries but they provide Bobby Beattie with the opportunity to build on his first outing in Cape Town, while Gregor Hunter and Ben Robbins come in for the first time.

“Both Gregor and Ben performed well at the Oriam camp and will get an opportunity to test himself at World Series level.

“As debutants, they can take a lot of confidence from the work they completed in training at home.

“It is disappointing to lose Jimmy (Johnstone), Nick (McLennan), Scott (Riddell) and Dougie (Fife) to injuries as all have been influential to our strong start to the series.

“Jimmy is one of the best running attackers in Scottish rugby and has produced some stellar performances already this series. He is an influencial player and will be missed.

“Nick has been Mr. Consistency since he joined us, his defensive contributions in Wellington kept us in games and his tenacity and desire to win rubs off on those around him.

"We were hopeful that Dougie and Scott might revover in time to play this weekend however they just missed out and we wish all four of them a speedy recovery."

There are a lot of promising youngsters there but Scotland have lost a lot of experience.

Ben Robbins is one to look out for - he is absolutely rapid. I think he was a 200 and 400m champion at a fairly high level in athletics in his teenage years.

RDW_Scotland wrote:There are a lot of promising youngsters there but Scotland have lost a lot of experience.

Ben Robbins is one to look out for - he is absolutely rapid.  I think he was a 200 and 400m champion at a fairly high level in athletics in his teenage years.

Ben Robbins won the New years sprint at Musselburgh when he was 16 beating a lot of top level athletes including a few who have sprinted for GB.

England missed out on the Women's quarter finals. Here's the line-up for tomorrow:

10am: NZL v FRA
10.22am: IRE v USA
10.44am: AUS v FIJ
11.06am: RUS v CAN

This is a high profile event in Sydney, as Australia won gold in Rio. Their quarter final will be held outside the stadium because the men's event takes preference. Semis and final will be in front of everyone. If Fiji turn them over, then the organisers will have egg on their face.

Close matches so far in the Men's tournament.

Wales beat France with the last move of the match, scoring a try under the posts, which left an easy conversion for a 12-14 win.

Before that, USA beat Argentina 19-22, while Canada beat Russia 12-7

Blimey, I know Fiji are good but Samoa looked abject in their 40-0 loss. It was too much to expect Sir Gordon Tietjens would work instant miracles but it really does look like he has his work cut out.

England draw a yellow card, and Kenya finally break through. They lead 7-0 at half-time. England have had a run of 10 straight wins over Kenya, so it will be a set-back if we can't turn this around.

England went 0-12 down with three minutes to go but then scored three tries in succession to win 19-12.

Substitutes made a difference, not least because we won all three restarts. Two led on to tries, while the third let us clear it out for full-time.

Good match between NZ and Australia in Sydney. NZ pulled ahead by two scores to silence the crowd but repeated infringements saw them give away a penalty try. Loose pass just before half-time allowed Australia to tie-it up 14-14.

Second half coming up.

Bit of an anti-climactic second half, as Australia are held scoreless, and NZ get two soft tries to win 26-14.

That's probably a good result for Scotland, who will likely qualify if they can beat the hosts. Not an easy task, but better than needing to beat NZ.

Scotland are 5-5 against Papua New Guinea. They should win this one, though.

The scoreline reads 26-12 to Scotland, which will be a big relief, since PNG were well in this game.

Perhaps a good match for Scotland to have first. They'll need to be in much better form for their next games.

Wales Beat Fiji 28-15!

Great win, and the first in four years (last one was in Australia too)

Hat-trick for Morgan Williams. Wales have a good chance now to top their pool.

After a slow start, England beat Japan, and will play South Africa to see who tops the pool. Kenya ran South Africa close (it would have been awkward for England if they had won).

Two upsets in the Womens sevens. USA beat NZ in one semi, and Canada beat Australia, which stunned the crowd. A lot of the Sydney Sevens marketing was based around seeing the home town gold medallists play.

It's been a good sevens so far. Skillful play from most teams on display, and not too many blow-outs.

Great turn round for Wales after an awful display in an empty soulless stadium in Wellington last week. Wins against Fiji and France have made them favorites to top their group with a win against Samoa.

Amazing crowd in Sydney an almost full stadium from quite early on too.

Wales 7 - 7 Samoa

Samoan denied Wales a try at the death. Then the Cookie Monster and Elmo invaded the pitch. Strange scene, as a Welsh player slowly picked up the Cookie Monster's fallen head, and threw it back into the crowd.

Draw good enough to top the table although it was either NZ or Aussie in the Q/F so still a tough route for Wales.

rainbow-warrior wrote:Draw good enough to top the table although it was either NZ or Aussie in the Q/F so still a tough route for Wales.

Scotland still to play NZ, so I think they can still qualify if they win well.

NZ are on +35 and Scotland are -15 so they will have to have one hell of a game. Aussie are on +17 with PNG to play. All but impossible for Scotland to qualify for the cup unless some unthinkable result occurs.

Good scalp for England, with a 15-21 win over South Africa.

OMG PNG LOL

Papua New Guinea have a few good moves. Other teams are playing their weaker squad members against them but they are still a good standard. First half against Australia sees them trailing only 14-7.

Big win by Australia means Scotland have to smash NZ to qualify. Scotland have never beaten NZ.

Hard luck Scotland. Can't say I like the names on the shirts though, NZ do it right with having none and every shirt the same.

The draw gave the three Home Nations sides a good chance of making the quarters. A full strength Scotland probably would have made it but this patched-up squad just didn't have the game sense to match their effort.

Welsh win over Fiji will give them great confidence. Meanwhile England have now downed South Africa twice on the circuit, which shows they are well capable of beating the best. Meanwhile, their stuttering performances against Kenya and Japan also show they can take a long time to get into gear.

NZ beat Fiji 24 - 21 in an amazing game. Both sides went a man down during the match, and it looked like Fiji had done enough. In the last play, NZ went up the field and finally found space for the winning score.

NZ meet England in the semi-final. England beat Argentina 24-7.

England beat NZ 12-5, and will have to beat South Africa again in the final. The Blitzbokke beat the hosts 26-12 in the other semi-final.

Wales couldn't get into gear in their quarter-final match against Australia. Everything which went right for them against Fiji, went wrong in that match.

Scotland really suffered in the heat without their best squad. They lost to Samoa and Kenya, so will have to rebuild for Las Vegas.

England thoroughly outplayed. 29-14 in the final. Second place is a good finish for the overall series standings but we'll be disappointed we couldn't get our hands on the ball.

Rough start for Scotland in Vegas. They have a tough pool including Fiji and Australia, but ran out to a 21-7 lead against the latter, only to lose 21-28. A later loss to Fiji means they are already out of the Cup competition.

Wales also lost twice: 33-7 to France, and a cruel late try saw then go down to Canada.

England beat Samoa and Chile, and must now face an unbeaten USA to decide who tops the pool.

Soith Africa and New Zealand are also unbeaten after two pool matches

Scotland handily beat Japan but only finished third in their pool. Fiji Beat Australia to decide the top spot.

New Zealand lost 10-12 to Argentina. They had a conversion to tie at the end but missed. It would have been a great escape, since they were held scoreless until the very end.

NZ will now meet the winners of England v USA. That's the kind of outcome in sevens which must make coaches ponder whether it would be better to lose a match,

England v USA was a great match. USA on top for much of the game but England scored late to tie it up at 17-17. I'd have been happy with that result but we got the ball back after the hooter and scored a winning try.

England delighted to win, so they clearly had no thought of trying to avoid NZ. Still, when USA come back tomorrow, they'll face Argentina for a semi-final spot, so that's not too bad an outcome.

RF

I just caught the last 30 seconds of that match - 17-10 to the US, England work a break through the middle for a try under the posts, conversion goes over with 1 second on the clock, so the game is to be restarted. England retrieve their own kick off, switch play a couple of times before getting their winger 1 on 1 with a US forward, and the winger scoots round the outside for a try in the corner.

Ridiculous game

In the quarter-final, England lost 0-19 to NZ, so beating USA was something of a pyrrhic victory. USA beat Argentina, so they are through to the semis.

England's best hope now is a 5th place finish but they'll probably have to beat Australia to get that.

Scotland were drawn against Wales in the Trophy quarter finals and won 28-21

The cup semi-finals are:

South Africa vs USA
Fiji vs NZ

South Africa and Fiji to meet in the final.

Blitzbokke beat USA 20-17, which is closer than I expected. Fiji had a yellow card early on, and shipped two tries but beat NZ 19-14.

England did manage to claim 5th place in the tournament, which is the best they could have hoped for after losing to NZ.

They got a try after the hooter to beat Australia, which is always a good scalp to have. Charlton Kerr had only been on the field 20 seconds when he scored from a Dan Norton pass. His team mates mobbed him, not just because it was the winner, but also because Kerr had been an unused 13th man for so many tournaments. The 13th man isn't allowed to sit on the bench with the team during a tournament, he has to be on is own in the main stand, so you can feel a bit of a spare part.

Another after-the-hooter score in the bronze medal match saw USA beat NZ. That's a good tournament for the hosts, and good entertainment for the Vegas crowd.