6N 2017: Scotland v Ireland, 4 February

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SCOTLAND v IRELAND 
4 February 2017
KO: 14:25
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judges: Jaco Peyper (South Africa) and Nick Briant (New Zealand)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand

Live on BBC, RTE, DMAX, FR2, ITV (H)

A. Head to Head

132 Played 132
66 Won 61 
5 Drawn 5
61 Lost 66
1,380 Points 1,475

B. Recent Form

19 March 2016
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
35 – 25 to Ireland

15 August 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
28 – 22 to Ireland

21 March 2015
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
10 – 40 to Ireland

2 February 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
28 – 6 to Ireland

24 February 2013
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
12 – 8 to Scotland

10 March 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
32 – 14 to Ireland

6 August 2011
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
10 – 6 to Scotland

27 February 2011
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
18 – 21 to Ireland

20 March 2010
Croke Park, Dublin
20 – 23 to Scotland

C. Teams

SCOTLAND 

15-Stuart Hogg; 14-Sean Maitland, 13-Huw Jones, 12-Alex Dunbar, 11-Tommy Seymour; 10-Finn Russell, 9-Greig Laidlaw (capt); 1-Allan Dell, 2-Fraser Brown, 3-Zander Fagerson, 4-Richie Gray, 5-Jonny Gray, 6-Ryan Wilson, 7-Hamish Watson, 8-Josh Strauss

Replacements: 16-Ross Ford, 17-Gordon Reid, 18-Simon Berghan, 19-Tim Swinson, 20-John Barclay, 21-Ali Price, 22-Duncan Weir, 23-Mark Bennett

IRELAND

15-Rob Kearney; 14-Keith Earls, 13-Robbie Henshaw, 12-Garry Ringrose, 11-Simon Zebo; 10-Paddy Jackson, 9-Conor Murray; 1-Jack McGrath, 2-Rory Best (captain), 3-Tadhg Furlong, 4-Iain Henderson, 5-Devin Toner, 6-CJ Stander, 7-Sean O'Brien, 8-Jamie Heaslip

Replacements: 16-Niall Scannell, 17-Cian Healy, 18-John Ryan, 19-Ultan Dillane, 20-Josh van der Flier, 21-Kieran Marmion, 22-Ian Keatley, 23-Tommy Bowe.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 I would say there's a lot of pressure on both sides because the anticipation and hype has been built up.

Murray is an experienced player though and any pressure he can take off Jackson is good.

RDW Scotland indeed you bring up a good point, Jackson will not have happy memories of Murrayfield and that could work in Scotland's advantage.

I know Irish fans think highly of Jackson but he lacks the experience of Sexton.


Disagree gunsgerms. I think it's important to be wary of dangerous opposition players and if you can nullify them it's useful.

As for Ireland I'd certainly look to shut down Russell and Hogg.

Best way to shut anyone down is as a team play better than their team. Its  team game. If Scotland dont get the ball then Hogg and Russell wont get the ball.

I certainly wouldnt expect Ireland to be dishing out cheap shots on Russell and Hogg to target them that way.

Sorry, I meant to stop but this is just

NO ONE IS SAYING CHEAP SHOT EXCEPT YOU

They are saying put pressure on him Get in their face, tackle them legally so they do not have time to plan, rush them, make sure they are aware that they will get tackled if they try to run, get them to hesitate, do not allow them the luxry of time. The pressure mounts and some players crack. some don't



"I didnt bring it up. If you are talking about targeting someone it generally means take them out of the game because otherwise you are just tackling someone. If not what is the difference between targeting someone and just tackling them?

You seem really naive."

And that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard - stop putting words in peoples mouths

The different is targeting someone who may then make a mistake through sustained pressure - only YOU have mentioned injury, only you mention take them out the game - you can target a weak part of the team legally

Why do you think teams with strong scrums TARGET the opposition scrums to win - not to take them out the game or injury them

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:yep, when France through Betsen deliberately targeted Wilkinson all game in 02, leading to France winning a game most thought they'd be thrashed in, that was clearly the tactic of a "loser"

Are you saying that he intentionally tried to injure Wilkinson?

Nope, but rattle him, definitely, which is what Glasgow tried to do to Murray. There's no evidence whatsoever anywhere that they intentionally tried to injure him. I just hope this bleating about a perfectly legitimate and legal tactic to target a key opposition player to disrupt the opposition's gameplan doesn't influence the ref too much, resulting in a spate of penalties for supposedly "late" tackles or some other imagined offence.

eirebilly wrote:Am I correct in assuming that the weather will be bad in Murrayfield, making the ground slow and stodgy?

If so, I expect a very low scoring game with Ireland slightly edging it due to a barging CJ or Heaslip run.

You assume wrong mate. The weather is due to be a bit windy but dry, also Murrayfield has a hybrid pitch, which means it shouldn't be affected by the weather.

Riskysports wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 I would say there's a lot of pressure on both sides because the anticipation and hype has been built up.

Murray is an experienced player though and any pressure he can take off Jackson is good.

RDW Scotland indeed you bring up a good point, Jackson will not have happy memories of Murrayfield and that could work in Scotland's advantage.

I know Irish fans think highly of Jackson but he lacks the experience of Sexton.


Disagree gunsgerms. I think it's important to be wary of dangerous opposition players and if you can nullify them it's useful.

As for Ireland I'd certainly look to shut down Russell and Hogg.

Best way to shut anyone down is as a team play better than their team. Its  team game. If Scotland dont get the ball then Hogg and Russell wont get the ball.

I certainly wouldnt expect Ireland to be dishing out cheap shots on Russell and Hogg to target them that way.

Sorry, I meant to stop but this is just

NO ONE IS SAYING CHEAP SHOT EXCEPT YOU

They are saying put pressure on him Get in their face, tackle them legally so they do not have time to plan, rush them, make sure they are aware that they will get tackled if they try to run, get them to hesitate, do not allow them the luxry of time. The pressure mounts and some players crack. some don't



"I didnt bring it up. If you are talking about targeting someone it generally means take them out of the game because otherwise you are just tackling someone. If not what is the difference between targeting someone and just tackling them?

You seem really naive."

And that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard - stop putting words in peoples mouths

The different is targeting someone who may then make a mistake through sustained pressure  - only YOU have mentioned injury, only you mention take them out the game - you can target a weak part of the team legally

Why do you think teams with strong scrums TARGET the opposition scrums to win - not to take them out the game or injury them

How is that any different that literally every game he has played in? Not sure what the fuss is all about and what you are getting so worked up about.

EWT Spoons wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Am I correct in assuming that the weather will be bad in Murrayfield, making the ground slow and stodgy?

If so, I expect a very low scoring game with Ireland slightly edging it due to a barging CJ or Heaslip run.

You assume wrong mate.  The weather is due to be a bit windy but dry, also Murrayfield has a hybrid pitch, which means it shouldn't be affected by the weather.

Great news then, we may see some very open running then from both sides.

Still think Ireland will win though

France didn't target Wilkinson. Teams didn't target Ford with running thinking he was potentially weak. Teams don't come up with specific tactics for different games. Oh no wait...

EWT Spoons wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Am I correct in assuming that the weather will be bad in Murrayfield, making the ground slow and stodgy?

If so, I expect a very low scoring game with Ireland slightly edging it due to a barging CJ or Heaslip run.

You assume wrong mate.  The weather is due to be a bit windy but dry, also Murrayfield has a hybrid pitch, which means it shouldn't be affected by the weather.

Du Preez might be making his international debut for this one, I'd put him up against CJ any day

Du Preez
Height 1.92 m (6 ft 3 1⁄2 in)
Weight: 117.8 kg (18 st 8 lb; 260 lb)

CJ Stander
Height: 1.89 m (6 ft 2 1⁄2 in)
Weight: 114 kg (17 st 13 lb; 251 lb)

eirebilly wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Am I correct in assuming that the weather will be bad in Murrayfield, making the ground slow and stodgy?

If so, I expect a very low scoring game with Ireland slightly edging it due to a barging CJ or Heaslip run.

You assume wrong mate.  The weather is due to be a bit windy but dry, also Murrayfield has a hybrid pitch, which means it shouldn't be affected by the weather.

Great news then, we may see some very open running then from both sides.

Still think Ireland will win though

Agree on both counts

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Riskysports wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 I would say there's a lot of pressure on both sides because the anticipation and hype has been built up.

Murray is an experienced player though and any pressure he can take off Jackson is good.

RDW Scotland indeed you bring up a good point, Jackson will not have happy memories of Murrayfield and that could work in Scotland's advantage.

I know Irish fans think highly of Jackson but he lacks the experience of Sexton.


Disagree gunsgerms. I think it's important to be wary of dangerous opposition players and if you can nullify them it's useful.

As for Ireland I'd certainly look to shut down Russell and Hogg.

Best way to shut anyone down is as a team play better than their team. Its  team game. If Scotland dont get the ball then Hogg and Russell wont get the ball.

I certainly wouldnt expect Ireland to be dishing out cheap shots on Russell and Hogg to target them that way.

Sorry, I meant to stop but this is just

NO ONE IS SAYING CHEAP SHOT EXCEPT YOU

They are saying put pressure on him Get in their face, tackle them legally so they do not have time to plan, rush them, make sure they are aware that they will get tackled if they try to run, get them to hesitate, do not allow them the luxry of time. The pressure mounts and some players crack. some don't



"I didnt bring it up. If you are talking about targeting someone it generally means take them out of the game because otherwise you are just tackling someone. If not what is the difference between targeting someone and just tackling them?

You seem really naive."

And that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard - stop putting words in peoples mouths

The different is targeting someone who may then make a mistake through sustained pressure  - only YOU have mentioned injury, only you mention take them out the game - you can target a weak part of the team legally

Why do you think teams with strong scrums TARGET the opposition scrums to win - not to take them out the game or injury them

How is that any different that literally every game he has played in? Not sure what the fuss is all about and what you are getting so worked up about.

Not sure there is much difference apart from him now bleating to the press about tactics to premeditated to injure

Which has been proved to be incorrect and is a very unethical and against most people rugby ethics (IMO)

I get worked up when people slander players through saying they went out to injure - I bet you would too if that was against your team


I still expect Ireland to be favourites at this :-)

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:yep, when France through Betsen deliberately targeted Wilkinson all game in 02, leading to France winning a game most thought they'd be thrashed in, that was clearly the tactic of a "loser"

Are you saying that he intentionally tried to injure Wilkinson?

Nope, but rattle him, definitely, which is what Glasgow tried to do to Murray. There's no evidence whatsoever anywhere that they intentionally tried to injure him. I just hope this bleating about a perfectly legitimate and legal tactic to target a key opposition player to disrupt the opposition's gameplan doesn't influence the ref too much, resulting in a spate of penalties for supposedly "late" tackles or some other imagined offence.

If your plan is to tackle a kickers standing leg every time they kick you probably will injure them. It might be legal but is a loser tactic in my opinion.

A late tackle isnt an imagined offence.

bsando wrote:

Du Preez might be making his international debut for this one, I'd put him up against CJ any day

Du Preez
Height 1.92 m (6 ft 3 1⁄2 in)
Weight: 117.8 kg (18 st 8 lb; 260 lb)

CJ Stander
Height: 1.89 m (6 ft 2 1⁄2 in)
Weight: 114 kg (17 st 13 lb; 251 lb)

How very dare you put Du Preez in the same class as CJ... CJ is simply a class above, bring it on lads

Seriously though, Du Preez is a very good player as well but I do feel that CJ (with more international experience) will teach him manners

Riskysports wrote:

Not sure there is much difference apart from him now bleating to the press about tactics to premeditated to injure

Which has been proved to be incorrect and is a very unethical and against most people rugby ethics (IMO)

I get worked up when people slander players through saying they went out to injure - I bet you would too if that was against your team

I still expect Ireland to be favourites at this :-)

Sounds like you make a good target yourself.

Admission of just wumming then?

I've just looked on the Munster fans forum. Goodness me...

If we're getting 'worked up' about this, those folks are climbing the walls.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Admission of just wumming then?

Yes, I fell for it didn't I

I love the world we live in now that Fake news is now 'fact'

The real facts (like noone went for his standing leg and it was not late, as proved by the photos and the non citing) are so boring lol

No 7&1/2 wrote:France didn't target Wilkinson. Teams didn't target Ford with running thinking he was potentially weak. Teams don't come up with specific tactics for different games. Oh no wait...

Ford was a weak link vs Ireland in Ireland 2015. Ireland got their man. Sexton taught Ford a lesson and smashed his opposite number.

Ford will need to learn his lessons for later in the tournament.

It's Jackson vs Russell though in this match with Russell on home turf.

Again, I must say that I do not believe that Glasgow went out with the intention to deliberately injure Murray, for me it was a very clever tactic to try and tie in another forward at ruck time to protect Murray.

every contact in Rugby has the potential to injure another player but I would be absolutely astonished if any player (or coaches tactic) was to deliberately injure a fellow player.

What lesson did he teach him beshocked?

Riskysports wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Admission of just wumming then?

Yes, I fell for it didn't I

I love the world we live in now that Fake news is not 'fact'

The real facts (like noone wend for his standing leg and it was not late, as proved by the photos and the non citing) are so boring lol

Well if no one tackles his standing leg I don't see what the problem is. Much ado about nothing. I cant see Murray having any issues.

I think Murray is just being put on a pedestal because he is probably the best scrum half in the world right now just ahead of Smith and Perenara.

beshocked wrote:
It's Jackson vs Russell though in this match with Russell on home turf.

Jackson is a better controller of the game than Sexton (in my opinion), he just does not have the place kicking or field kicking skills as Sexton does. He is also a very solid defender.

Russell is very much 'off the cuff' type of 10 and as such can be unpredictable and dangerous. Going to be a very good match between them. Whoever gets parity in the forwards will decide which 10 will have the better game I feel.

eirebilly wrote:

bsando wrote:

Du Preez might be making his international debut for this one, I'd put him up against CJ any day

Du Preez
Height 1.92 m (6 ft 3 1⁄2 in)
Weight: 117.8 kg (18 st 8 lb; 260 lb)

CJ Stander
Height: 1.89 m (6 ft 2 1⁄2 in)
Weight: 114 kg (17 st 13 lb; 251 lb)

How very dare you put Du Preez in the same class as CJ... CJ is simply a class above, bring it on lads

Seriously though, Du Preez is a very good player as well but I do feel that CJ (with more international experience) will teach him manners

After 3 years being an outstanding player for Edinburgh CDP hasn't hit the same heights this season for some reason just as he becomes SQ.

It certainly can't be claimed that he's of the same level of CJ Standar given that he is uncapped!

That the young man still had much to learn. Ford is a more experienced player now and hopefully will be able to control the game better if Ford faces Sexton in Ireland.


Anyway as I said, it's Russell vs Jackson. An easier prospect than Sexton. I realise it's a team game but 10 is an influential position and both will likely be at the heart of their team's fortunes.

Now I am personally hoping Russell can deliver on the promise, show some more control to go with his obvious attacking talents. Of course the other players on the pitch will influence proceedings too but if Russell can do his own basics well then hopefully for Scotland he'll be able to put them in a promising position.

So the lesson Sexton taught to Ford was nothing to do with running at him or the tackle?

The Scotland team will be announced tomorrow morning.

no 7 & 1/2 Well I believe he bullied Ford but I know you disagree. I think it's good if a player can get on top and impose their gameplan on the opposition. It's kind of irrelevant though because neither Sexton or Ford are involved in the Scotland-Ireland game.

eirebilly off the cuff is fine to a degree but a 10 needs to do other basics well. Not just attacking.

This game is a perfect one for players to stake a claim for places on the Lions tour.

It wasn't irrelevant to the points being made and as you're struggling to firm up your point I'm fine to move on.

eirebilly wrote:

beshocked wrote:
It's Jackson vs Russell though in this match with Russell on home turf.

Jackson is a better controller of the game than Sexton (in my opinion), he just does not have the place kicking or field kicking skills as Sexton does. He is also a very solid defender.

One of Sexton's best bits is his defending.
Jackson a better 'Controller' of a game? As in keeping the system/processes going methodically?
Perhaps Jackson IS a more conventional controller. But Sexton still has the X-Factor of upping his performance even within a game that he might have been mostly ordinary in, to a level I haven't really seen Jackson operate at yet. Sexton can find a rhythm that allows his team to purr.

And Sexton, for all the moans and grimaces and whines and scowls, is still much more of a sub-Captain, sub-Leader, than Jackson yet is.

I don't worry about Jackson in there. He has enough of his own ability to make him a threat on his own terms. He's no Sexton mark two - he's his own man, as Sexton was when trying to take over from O'Gara. So, I hope he has the game of his life and plays it the way Ireland should now always play it - respect the opposition by trying to be ruthless from first seconds to the final minute.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:yep, when France through Betsen deliberately targeted Wilkinson all game in 02, leading to France winning a game most thought they'd be thrashed in, that was clearly the tactic of a "loser"

Are you saying that he intentionally tried to injure Wilkinson?

Nope, but rattle him, definitely, which is what Glasgow tried to do to Murray. There's no evidence whatsoever anywhere that they intentionally tried to injure him. I just hope this bleating about a perfectly legitimate and legal tactic to target a key opposition player to disrupt the opposition's gameplan doesn't influence the ref too much, resulting in a spate of penalties for supposedly "late" tackles or some other imagined offence.

If you tackle a player after the ball is gone, it's a late tackle. Simply really. If you come other side of a ruck to tackle a box kicking SH, you will a) never charge the ball down b) tackle him after the ball is kicked, the movement is too quick. This means you will tackle the kicker when only 1 foot is planted, his body twisting from the movement of the kick and the ball up in the air. If he dummies, and passes against the grain (where the tackler came from) you also won't get the ball, and be a man down and will to shuffle in towards the ruck to protect the gap. There is no tactical advantage to be had from this, hence why no one else does it. Instead teams try to block the kick.

Sexton is still number 1 but he is not one of the players we simple cant do without, if only because Jackson is such an able deputy.

Best, Furlong, Stander, Murray, Henshaw are our irreplaceable players

On another note Trimble didn't train yesterday so my guess is Earls will get the nod over him - Schmidt is really keen on players being fit for the Tuesday session if at all possible

No 7 & 1/2 you said sides didn't target Ford which is false. Ireland targeted him successfully.

Secretfly every side should try and do that - respect the opposition but be ruthless from start to finish.

Will be interesting to see which side starts with more fluency. I'd say obviously a strong Scottish start is a necessity, whilst for Ireland it's of course ideal but I think they are better placed to recover from a deficit than Scotland.

Fly, without a doubt, Sexton is still the best 10 in Ireland but the gap is closing.

I do believe that Ireland have a more fluid attack when PJ plays but his inexperience is highlighted with his, at times, aimless kicks towards touch. Kicks that Sexton hits and gets Ireland great field position.

There are more than enough leaders on the field for Ireland so it is not essential for PJ to be a leader either.

Do you feel that PJ has no X-factor? PJ can be very dynamic and certainly has every bit of that X-factor that Sexton does in my opinion.

geoff999rugby wrote:Sexton is still number 1 but he is not one of the players we simple cant do without, if only because Jackson is such an able deputy.

Best, Furlong, Stander, Murray, Henshaw are our irreplaceable players

Correct and given his form in the AIs I would add Jamie Heaslip to that list.

Go back and read my post carefully. The clue is in the last sentence and the context of the conversation and previous statements. But like I said as you can't qualify your statement happy to move on beshocked.

A sneaky Scottish paparazzo snapped Connor Murray training on Killiney Beach yesterday.

Very much what we all suspected:

Didn't add Heaslip because excellent though he was, we can play POM 6, Stander 8.

Heaslip, like Sexton, simply has excellent back up - absolutely nothing wrong with the quality they bring.

Stander on the other hand is on fire and has the X-factor at the moment.
For the other 4 I list there is a palpable drop in quality to the next player.
If I was to add a 5th player it would be Payne but Ringrose did so well in the autumn - huge tournament coming up for him.

It's funny because I thought Heaslip had a forgettable 6 nations last year. Interesting how perceptions can change with a good AIs. I've done the same with a certain winger called Road Runner.

Thanks for acknowledging your mistake takes a big person.

I'd personally send Heaslip out with two fractured legs! To say he isn't central to the energy of this newest version of Ireland is, in my humble opinion, just negligent

the-goon wrote:Just for the record, I was on a wind up. This thread was too friendly.

It does seems rather pointless though to tackle the standing leg of a player who has already kicked the ball. What do you get out of it? Why not actually try and charge the ball down?

It's kind of a focus thing. Like in basketball, when a player is taking a jump shot and the defender steps in and puts their foot under the shot-taker. It distracts the shot-taker as they start thinking about landing safely rather than concentrating on the shot. It became a common tactic in the NBA (it was done to Kobe a lot, we're talking that timeframe) and I believe they put a rule in stopping defenders from doing it. The tactic could be dangerous (but most things in life can be dangerous), a defender could roll a guys ankle and potentially cause a nasty injury. But the injury isn't the objective, it's to distract the likes of a Kobe or a Murray depending on your sport from executing their shot/kick. To be doubt in their head, to make them rush their technique. To be successful it has to get to the point where the person you're doing it to really feels their safety is in danger. Actually harming the player is the last outcome that is desired, that's what turns brushing past Murrays standing foot or diving under Zebo during/after a kick into Hogg clocking Biggar with a shoulder after the kick is gone and picking up a silly red card, or CJ letting Lambie know that he was close to getting to that kick in SA and wiping the kid out of it altogether. You have to keep it the right side of proper, the guys aren't out to end careers, put guys on stretchers, injure players (okay maybe the last one to a small degree).

People tried to rough up Stringer back in the day, but they only ever tried it once because a Paulie, or Quinlan, or Leamy, or O'Driscoll, or Wallace, or Foley would send a message that such tactics are not accepted. Ireland is playing well recently (and some of the provinces this season) and there is talent in that pack but I don't think POM, or SOB or Ryan or CJ or Heaslip are doing an enforcer role.

My guess is we are going to put out a big back row. Ryan Wilson, Struass and CDP. Hamish Watson on the bench for when Ireland tire.

We will have POM on the bench when you tire

Heaslip has been absolutely key to Ireland but there is no denying that Stander is a more than adequate replacement at 8 and POM a more than adequate replacement at 6 hence the argument.

The players mentioned are not necessarily the best (other than Rory of course ) but they are the ones who would be the hardest to replace - which is a different argument.

cakeordeath wrote:My guess is we are going to put out a big back row. Ryan Wilson, Struass and CDP. Hamish Watson on the bench for when Ireland tire.

I'd put a lot of money on Barclay starting, and TBH I want him to start.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:yep, when France through Betsen deliberately targeted Wilkinson all game in 02, leading to France winning a game most thought they'd be thrashed in, that was clearly the tactic of a "loser"

Are you saying that he intentionally tried to injure Wilkinson?

Nope, but rattle him, definitely, which is what Glasgow tried to do to Murray. There's no evidence whatsoever anywhere that they intentionally tried to injure him. I just hope this bleating about a perfectly legitimate and legal tactic to target a key opposition player to disrupt the opposition's gameplan doesn't influence the ref too much, resulting in a spate of penalties for supposedly "late" tackles or some other imagined offence.

Illegal scrummaging or the breakdown interpretation are usually the topics when a side tries to influence the referee before a game, and the pre-match hype usually bears some fruit.

It matters not a jot whether Murray was 'targeted' or not in the past, however the picture of Strauss tackling his standing leg will be registered in the memory banks of officials just as much as supporters and as such might influence some outcomes. Referees will inevitably be looking more closely now at Murray being 'potentially' targeted so 50/50 calls are more likely to be penalised in his favour. Smart.

If Strauss hadn't given Murray the fuel, he couldn't have lit the fire so when the opposition hand you a gift like that it would be impolite not to accept it.

Looking forward to seeing Russell and Hogg. Two Lions test starters for me.

Think Ireland have the better forwards and this should be enough to shade this game. Wouldn't be shocked if Scotland win this though. They will need to come flying out of the blocks.

geoff999rugby wrote:We will have POM on the bench when you tire

POM is injured - though Conan or SOB are not bad options!

Sin é wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:We will have POM on the bench when you tire

POM is injured - though Conan or SOB are not bad options!

Aye, SOB is definitely not going to pick up another injury, guaranteed !

POM ran out of puff in training.................... it's official.

The Great Aukster wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:yep, when France through Betsen deliberately targeted Wilkinson all game in 02, leading to France winning a game most thought they'd be thrashed in, that was clearly the tactic of a "loser"

Are you saying that he intentionally tried to injure Wilkinson?

Nope, but rattle him, definitely, which is what Glasgow tried to do to Murray. There's no evidence whatsoever anywhere that they intentionally tried to injure him. I just hope this bleating about a perfectly legitimate and legal tactic to target a key opposition player to disrupt the opposition's gameplan doesn't influence the ref too much, resulting in a spate of penalties for supposedly "late" tackles or some other imagined offence.

Illegal scrummaging or the breakdown interpretation are usually the topics when a side tries to influence the referee before a game, and the pre-match hype usually bears some fruit.

It matters not a jot whether Murray was 'targeted' or not in the past, however the picture of Strauss tackling his standing leg will be registered in the memory banks of officials just as much as supporters and as such might influence some outcomes. Referees will inevitably be looking more closely now at Murray being 'potentially' targeted so 50/50 calls are more likely to be penalised in his favour. Smart.

If Strauss hadn't given Murray the fuel, he couldn't have lit the fire so when the opposition hand you a gift like that it would be impolite not to accept it.

I think the general consensus is that what Glasgow did was within the laws - putting aside the debate on whether they should be or not - so what would the ref actually penalise him for?

Late hit maybe depending on his timing, but if the same incidents happen then by the letter of the law they shouldn't be penalised?

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Looking forward to seeing Russell and Hogg. Two Lions test starters for me.

Think Ireland have the better forwards and this should be enough to shade this game. Wouldn't be shocked if Scotland win this though. They will need to come flying out of the blocks.

Easy there sunshine!

Hogg I'd say yes, but I'm afraid Russell is maybe 4th choice for Lions stand off!

You can tackle a player in the act of kicking, surely? Otherwise a player could dummy-kick all the way to the try line and you wouldn't be able to touch him.