Ireland vs Scotland 6 Nations - Saturday 1st February 2020 - Match Thread

[Tramptastic]

IRELAND V SCOTLAND

1st of February 2020 16:45 Kick off

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant 1: Pascal Gauzere (France)
Assistant 2: Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

Ireland: 15 Jordan Larmour, 14 Andrew Conway, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Bundee Aki, 11 Jacob Stockdale, 10 Jonathan Sexton (c), 9 Conor Murray, 8 Caelan Doris, 7 Josh van der Flier, 6 CJ Stander, 5 James Ryan, 4 Iain Henderson, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 2 Rob Herring, 1 Cian Healy
Replacements: 16 Ronan Kelleher, 17 Dave Kilcoyne, 18 Andrew Porter, 19 Devin Toner, 20 Peter O’Mahony, 21 John Cooney, 22 Ross Byrne, 23 Robbie Henshaw

Scotland: 15 Stuart Hogg (c), 14 Sean Maitland, 13 Huw Jones, 12 Sam Johnson, 11 Blair Kinghorn, 10 Adam Hastings, 9 Ali Price, 8 Nick Haining, 7 Hamish Watson, 6 Jamie Ritchie, 5 Jonny Gray, 4 Scott Cummings, 3 Zander Fagerson, 2 Fraser Brown, 1 Rory Sutherland
Replacements: 16 Stuart McInally, 17 Allan Dell, 18 Simon Berghan, 19 Ben Toolis, 20 Cornell du Preez, 21 George Horne, 22 Rory Hutchinson, 23 Chris Harris

Perennial World Cup Quarter Finalists vs A Team With No Clear Strategy That Doesn't Currently Play To It's Strengths, Please Come Back Vern

Historical head to head data is useless as Scotland won for the 1st hundred years but Ireland have been dead good since the year 2000, except in 2010 at Croke Park which tells you Dan Parks is the finest rugby player Scotland has ever poached from Australia.

New head coach for Ireland in Farrell vs Townsend with new back room staff

Captain Sexton vs Captain Hogg - Eurgh, there's going to be so much moaning at the ref.

I'm looking forward to seeing a healthy amount of abuse in the thread below, please enjoy.

[Tramptastic]

I'll start the abuse:

This is my go at a Scotland side that will kick the cr*p out of the Irish (not just the national side, they'll beat up the entire population of Ireland)

15. Hogg
14. Maitland
13. Jones
12. Scott
11. Graham
10. Russell
9. Horne
8. Du Preez
7. Watson
6. Ritchie
5. Gray
4. Cummings
3. Nel
2. Brown
1. Dell

16. McInally
17. Sutherland
18. Fagerson
19. Craig (let's see what the fuss is about, none of our other locks are really game changers, more famous for their work rate)
20. Bradbury
21. Price
22. Hastings
23. Hutchinson

[RDW]

Good thread Tramptastic! I don't think Sexton is likely to be fit for this game, which bodes well as the last two times Ireland have been sans-Sexton we have won.

[Hazel Sapling]

Is Sexton injured for this one?

I would say Scotland are in a better position for this with players. Gone is P Horne and a rusty D Taylor (picked too soon), in comes on form H Jones, Scott and Hutchinson. A diminished Barclay and Seymour replaced by an in-form Du Preez/Crosbie and McGuigan. The Laidlaw safety blanket has been taken away to be replaced by two players inspired by Matawalu.

It is whether we have recovered mentally and are able to add some steel. The second row partnership of J Gray and Gilchrist needs to be thrown away and the back-row balance was way off in September. This may be a litmus test for Scotland. There is absolutely no expectation beyond don't get battered by 30.

Hoping for
Dell - McInally - Z Fagerson (Bhatti - Brown - Nel)
Cummings - J Gray (Craig)
Ritchie - Bradbury - Watson (Du Preez)

Horne - Russell (Price - Hutchinson)
Johnson - H Jones
Graham - Hogg - Maitland (Kinghorn)

EDIT: Not far off Tramptastic's team

[RDW]

Yeah Sexton's classed as a doubt for the start of the tournament.

[123456789.]

I'd hope for the following team with Townsend's probably picks in brackets:

15. Hogg
14. Graham
13. Jones (Harris)
12. Hutchinson (Johnson)
11. Maitland
10. Russell
9. Horne (Price)
8. Bradbury
7. Watson
6. Ritchie
5. Gray
4. Gilchrist
3. Fagerson (Nel)
2. McInally
1. Dell

I'm not sure I've seen a single Irish pro game this year, no one's ever seen an Andy Farrell (head) coached team and I've no idea if the Irish are planning a rebuild or keeping with the old heads. I do know that, almost certainly, if they play to their full potential and we play to our they'll beat us by 3-15 points.

What I would like to see from Scotland is:

1. An abandonment of the aimless kicking game that crept in last year. It didn't work in the Six Nations and it utterly bombed in the World Cup. Given Ireland and Japan are both possession sides a tactic that involved repeatedly kicking it back to the opposition was ridiculous.
2. A little, tiny bit of structure. Not too much. But enough that the Irish won't know that they just need to drift wide to defend. More stuff like Fagerson's try against Japan would go some way to keeping the defence interested in the narrow areas. Although having Horne or Price in there instead of Laidlaw will help in that regard. Any self-respecting defender knew that they could give Greig a 5 second head start and still catch him latterly.
3. A bit of steel. Not silly Ryan Wilson yellow card steel. Or Fraser Brown give away crucial penalties or unforced error steel but the sort of steel that involves not creeping back incrementally with every carry.
4.NO AIMLESS KICKING: I feel this needs repeated. Russell, at points, just seems to kick the ball aimlessly when he's getting fed up. The Japanese were quite happy to keep the ball for phase after phase even when they weren't going anywhere. We need a leaf out of their book in that regard
5. Less kicking

[profitius]

I was going to take a stab at the ireland team but its pointless because I just don't know what team Farrell will put out. I will say though that I would prefer to see Cooney, Burns and Addison starting.


It looks like Farrell wants to play much higher tempo than Schmidt so there could be more excitement than usual.

[RDW]

Numbers hits a key point here - no, not the kicking (which is very valid) but possession and territory. Ireland will want to hold onto the ball all game and we need to do all we can to stop them doing that. That means our set piece needs to be rock solid and we can't give them easy penalties to get into our half. We also need to massively cut down the mistakes. These are inevitable in the high risk high reward game we play, but we really need to cut down on the stupid ones. Passes that are forced and lead to knock ons or interceptions (I'm looking at you P Horne), basic handling errors etc.

This has been a major failing in recent games against them - it's hard enough getting the ball against them never mind easily coughing it up when we do have it.

I always feel if we get get ahead of Ireland we'll have them - they're not great at chasing games, they're much more comfortable grinding out the win a piece at a time. That means a good start, which we're also not prone to have!

[123456789.]

I was going to take a stab at the ireland team but its pointless because I just don't know what team Farrell will put out. I will say though that I would prefer to see Cooney, Burns and Addison starting.


It looks like Farrell wants to play much higher tempo than Schmidt so there could be more excitement than usual.

I'd say that would play into our hands. I always feel in the Ireland games our exciting players would zip around and look dangerous for the first 10-15 and then Sexton and O'Mahony would turn up like the older boys at school and take the ball of us and never really give it back. My brother was a few years older than me, one of his pals was obscenely tall and would hold the ball in one arm close to his body and put his other hand on my (or my friends) forehead. Try as we might we couldn't get our hands on it. That's the sensation I get watching Scotland against Ireland.

[EWT Spoons]

I have zero faith this game will be anything other than a comfortable Irish win. By comfortable I think the scoreline might be close, but in terms of the overall match Ireland will cruise it, by taking an early lead and doing just enough to stay in front by a score or two.

It’s been said before but Hogg doesn’t seem a good fit for captain. He’s too hot headed and if we’re chasing the game (sorry, WHEN we’re chasing the game) he’s going to take more risks and try and do everything himself to the detriment of the team.

It'll be close in terms of the score (I hope) but Ireland will win without really exerting themselves.

[Tramptastic]

It depends how Irelands game plan changes.

Under Schmidt it was:

1. Get the ball
2. Retain the ball through endless recycling of possession at rucks
3. Kick to the corner when the penalty is won as defensive teams become frustrated
4. Try time through a maul of Sextons loop play (why does no-one just hit the boy as soon as he's passed it so he can't loop?!)

If Ireland stick to this plan Scotland will lose patience and fluff all their chances. If Ireland boot the ball more/kick loose/allow Scotland to actually have possession then Scotland stands a chance

[RDW]

I can't see Ireland's gameplan changing too drastically this 6N - it's mainly the same personnel and it's not like Farrell is a brand new coach. He's been part of the group and the coaching decisions made for years.

[Tramptastic]

I was genuinely surprised to see Sexton named captain, he's broken a lot of the time these days and is getting a bit long in the tooth!

I'm coming around to the idea of Hogg being Captain though. A full back does a lot of organising in defensive so he'll be constantly barking at the players any way.

[123456789.]

Given Hogg and Sexton injury records, especially in this game, I genuinely would not be surprised if neither were still on the pitch after the 20 minute mark. O'Mahony will be back on Hogg duty. Sexton will be targeted by the entire Scotland pack.

[Tramptastic]

If all Jamie Ritchie does in a game is charge at Sexton I'd be happily. Similarly, if all Bradbury/du Preez does in defensive is charge at Murray's standing leg during the inevitable box kick phase this would also make me happy and show a basic level of defensive nous on the players part

[bsando]

A marvellous thread!

As RDW says, the Scottish mistakes have to be reduced this year. Last year we gifted Ireland a lot of easy penalties, forward passes and knock ons and it totally undid a lot of the good work the team had done. The game had been in the balance despite earlier first half mistakes but the second half errors mounted and Ireland had choked Scotland into submission by the last 10 mins.

Scotland’s squad has improved and lesser known players like Graham and Ritchie have moved up the pecking order as have Horne, Hastings, Cummings and Bradbury. At club level there are positive signs at Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Ireland should do okay without Sexton but there will be some pressure to get off to a good start in the tournament. Their own report on the RWC failure was quite critical and like Scotland, their fans want to see an improvement.

[123456789.]

Is Sexton definitely injured? With Carberry out who's the next in line?

[tigertattie]

Firstly, if Cooney doesn’t start for Ireland, Farrell isn’t worth his salt as a head coach

Secondly, Scotland can win this game. Scotland need to go all Vern Cotter on the leprechaun believers. Keep the ball, don’t force things, play the basic game of rugby and don’t create your own mess with errors.

Thirdly, we won’t do the above. We’ll go full metal Toonie and chuck the ball about like it’s Donald Trumps week old underwear. We’ll throw intercept passes. We’ll drop the ball. We’ll fail to collect restarts. We’ll box kick with no chase. We’ll fail to execute exit strategy. We’ll score three tries but only after letting 4 in and the game is nearly wrapped up already by 50 mins. Suddenly we’ll be pressing for the 4th try to get within a point or two of the Mrs Brown’s Boys XV but then in the 76 min we’ll run out of patience, kick the ball away to cooney who’ll run the length of the pitch to put Ireland comfortably clear.

[NeilyBroon]

I think it'll be relatively cagey, at least for the first 40 minutes but like spoons, fully expect an irish win.

From a Scottish perspective I'd like to see more control of the ball and back to basics of possession retention, the kind of patience we had at the end of the VC era/early toonbola.

Have a feeling it could be a long month and a half for us...

EDIT: Didnt see above post. Agree with tattie and repeat his points!

[tigertattie]

I think it'll be relatively cagey, at least for the first 40 minutes but like spoons, fully expect an irish win.

From a Scottish perspective I'd like to see more control of the ball and back to basics of possession retention, the kind of patience we had at the end of the VC era/early toonbola.

Have a feeling it could be a long month and a half for us...

EDIT: Didnt see above post. Agree with tattie and repeat his points!

Dont worry Mr Broon. Most members see my posts, they tend to jsut ignore them

[SecretFly]

Overview from this thread so far is that most posters seem to think Ireland won't be changing patterns too much, therefore predicting the game appears easy enough in terms of what Scotland must do to obstruct and negate Ireland's regular gameplan.

Maybe that's true.  Maybe nobody will notice that Schmidt has departed.  Maybe Farrell loved the way Ireland played under Schmidt's dogged (and dull) template.  Maybe Mike Catt couldn't wait to get to Ireland to get down and dirty in Ireland's famous 'ruck resourcing' philosophy. -----  Maybe.

But I think Farrell intends bringing very much his own stamp to detail and style.  Scotland might be early enough not to see such a revolution fully unfurled though.  It might need phasing-in time but I do believe Farrell will at least attempt to change Ireland noticeably in the next year or so.  
And another past England cog and now Leinster coach, Lancaster, seems to have the same belief.  He was quite direct in suggesting that he believed the days of hard reeducation for returning Leinster players after Six Nations may be over.  He said he kinda expects Ireland to play things closer to the Leinster philosophy than in recent years...and his tone seemed to hint that his view might have been confirmed by some private chats with Ireland's coaching outfit.
Now one or two here say such a revolution with Ireland might actually increase Scotland's chances rather than the miserly old ball retention bore style of Schmidt's time.  Maybe that's true too. Maybe Ireland will leave lots of opportunities for the opposition if they try being too smart and pacy with the ball.  

But really.... there are no more options left.  Our old ways have become obsolete, impotent at the highest levels and non serviceable in terms of the impact such a dour collision based game has on player fitness.  
We simply must adapt.  We must play a game closer to the tempo and style these players play on a weekly basis.  Farrell, Catt and crew will stir things up - it's inevitable.  
All we wait for is an Effectiveness Report post-championship.  But change of style and tempo is inevitable.

[RDW]

I hadn't realised Catt is coaching Ireland now.

Hopefully they bring in lots of new ideas straight away and the players don't know what they're doing and make a right mess of things!

[EST]

I'm heading over for this game, always love an away trip to Dublin.

I'm afraid though that i'm struggling to see anything other than a pretty comfortable home win, we will have new combinations and some players with very little experience at this level in conjunction with a new coaching set up. There is the unknown of how Farrell will get his team playing, but Ireland have lost very few players and their strength in depth remains significantly better than ours...thats without mentioning our horrific away record.

[EWT Spoons]

 
 Our old ways have become obsolete, impotent at the highest levels.

But spectacularly effective when playing against Scotland.

[NeilyBroon]

 
 Our old ways have become obsolete, impotent at the highest levels.

But spectacularly effective when playing against Scotland.

We're the team that bring the feelgood factor. For other teams.

It's always reassuring that no matter how inept you are you'll always be better equipped to win than Scotland!

Sod it, now I've said that we'll win 13-40 and Toonie will get a parade with the team on the roof of the Murrayfield tram having won the Tayto cup or whatever the Ireland-Scotland cup is named (we'll bring home some silverware, we just need the Tony Macaroni cup for the Italian fixtures then we'll bring it home at least every two years!). Heard it here first, I want a 10% cut of any bet winnings.

[123456789.]

 
 Our old ways have become obsolete, impotent at the highest levels.

But spectacularly effective when playing against Scotland.

We're the team that bring the feelgood factor. For other teams.

It's always reassuring that no matter how inept you are you'll always be better equipped to win than Scotland!

Sod it, now I've said that we'll win 13-40 and Toonie will get a parade with the team on the roof of the Murrayfield tram having won the Tayto cup or whatever the Ireland-Scotland cup is named (we'll bring home some silverware, we just need the Tony Macaroni cup for the Italian fixtures then we'll bring it home at least every two years!). Heard it here first, I want a 10% cut of any bet winnings.

I'm not actually joking here but I do think there is a small but tangible chance of us ripping loose and putting a big score on in the first 20 minutes. The format of most Scotland-Ireland games tends to involve us flying out of the blocks and failing to convert before Sexton etc. takes the ball off us and holds us at arms length. The only exception in recent times being 2017 when we flew out and put two early scores on them. If Townsend has the courage to put the likes of Graham, Jones, Hutchinson, Russell, Horne and Hogg on the pitch at the same time then they have the ability to carve up anyone. Even the best team in the world will have chinks in their armour under a new coach and there will be a window to exploit that. Especially if they're down to their third choice 10. I admit it's far more likely to follow the usual format, you could even argue that picking a relatively lightweight backline will enable them to keep the ball better. I'd argue there's a fifty percent chance of an Irish victory by more than seven, a thirty percent chance of a narrow Irish win, fifteen percent chance of Scotland pipping them and five percent a Scotland victory of more than seven.

[Tramptastic]

https://www.planetrugby.com/johnny-sexton-set-to-be-fit-for-six-nations-opener/ Johnny Sexton to be fit for the game. Can't believe both sides have chosen their biggest divas (read: divers) to be their captains

[RDW]

Anyone else getting annoyed by Scotland players saying the team "pride themselves on their defence"?? Hogg's the latest.

That's like saying you're proud of your car and it hasn't been washed in months.

Clearly not as it's been a shambles!

[theslosty]

When captaining Leinster this season Sexton has made a noticeable attempt to be more patient with referees. It's definitely deliberate and I'd expect him to continue to do so with Ireland if he hopes to retain the captaincy for long.

[bsando]

Anyone else getting annoyed by Scotland players saying the team "pride themselves on their defence"?? Hogg's the latest.

That's like saying you're proud of your car and it hasn't been washed in months.

Clearly not as it's been a shambles!

Yeah they need to stop saying that. I also hope they stop talking about the fastest brand of rugby in the world this 6N.

[123456789.]

Anyone else getting annoyed by Scotland players saying the team "pride themselves on their defence"?? Hogg's the latest.

That's like saying you're proud of your car and it hasn't been washed in months.

Clearly not as it's been a shambles!

Yeah they need to stop saying that. I also hope they stop talking about the fastest brand of rugby in the world this 6N.

I kind of hope they become more audacious. I would absolutely love to see an interview with Huw Jones saying how proud he was to win the world cup.

[Pot Hale]

I think Scotland should win easily. Ireland broken after yet another RWC QF exit. At least Scotland had a monsoon to blame.

Sexton probably won't play as he's sick and tired of Scotland knocking him around and calling him a crybaby.

Farrell is targeting the England and France games for wins cos they're at home.

Don't think Scotland have much to worry about to be honest.

wee Jimmy the Hangman, Hamish the Third, and Scotty Breadboard McTavish should sort it out.

[SecretFly]

I've just realised no Friday f**king game this year!?

Okay, that's it! I've had enough of this bloody generation tearing up all old customs, habits and pleasures. I refuse to watch the Six Nations this year under protest....until 4.45 on February 1st!

[NeilyBroon]

So this years catchphrase is going to be "the 'ardest defence in the world" then. Good. I look forward to seeing this mighty attacking defense that gives attacking opportunities... To Ireland.

Also why am I not surprised Hogg asked to be captain? I guess it mirrors Toonie going for the national job, wrong time, wrong man. I feel like this may be one of Hoggy's poorer tournaments...

we just shouldnt do press should we?

[RDW]

So this years catchphrase is going to be "the 'ardest defence in the world" then. Good. I look forward to seeing this mighty attacking defense that gives attacking opportunities... To Ireland.

Also why am I not surprised Hogg asked to be captain? I guess it mirrors Toonie going for the national job, wrong time, wrong man. I feel like this may be one of Hoggy's poorer tournaments...

we just shouldnt do press top level international rugby should we?

Fixed that for you

[NeilyBroon]

Bring on the Rugby Europe Championships. Cant wait to dominate Belgium one week then get beaten by Spain the next.

[RDW]

A sad reality for our under 20s now! 

[SecretFly]

So this years catchphrase is going to be "the 'ardest defence in the world" then. Good. I look forward to seeing this mighty attacking defense that gives attacking opportunities... To Ireland.

Also why am I not surprised Hogg asked to be captain? I guess it mirrors Toonie going for the national job, wrong time, wrong man. I feel like this may be one of Hoggy's poorer tournaments...

we just shouldnt do press should we?

I feel a fine coming on.....

[Tramptastic]

A sad reality for our under 20s now! 

If only the SRU had mad amounts of cash to invest in our age grades... If only there was just shy of a £1,000,000 of misused money in the system... yeah, that would help...

[EWT Spoons]

Russell out the camp and could miss the entire tournament.  WE ARE F**KED

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51222874

[123456789.]

Perhaps we should just have a year off

[EWT Spoons]

seems fitting

Call it a draw?

[RDW]

Cryptic article - is he injured or had a falling out...?

[bsando]

What the hell?? Is it an injury? Or something else? What a disaster

[EWT Spoons]

Says injury in the title, but the body hints at a falling out, so.....

Edit - Ok so it did say injury in the title, but that seems to have gone

[bsando]

“The Racing 92 playmaker has left the team's training camp for reasons that are, as of yet, unclear.“ - from BBC 

[Tramptastic]

Let me be one of the 1st to congratulate Ireland on their magnanimous 112-0 victory in their opener against Scotland

[EWT Spoons]

Got to be some kind of falling out. If it was anything other than that they would have just said it's an injury, all the Scottish rugby journalists on twitter are calling out that it's unclear why he's not involved.

The analysis by Andy Burke at the bottom of the article now pretty much confirms that.

[RDW]

I'm hoping this is just because he's gone back to Racing for this week's game (as planned), and Tom English has got a bit carried away that he was seen leaving...

If it is a falling out I'd take Finn over Townsend any day of the week!

[123456789.]

Having his star fly-half walk out on the squad just over a week before the opener only heaps more heat on the head coach

If Finn Russell has walked out it puts Gregor Townsend in a place where he needs at least two wins and positive performances to keep his job. Even if he comes back in the optics aren't great.

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