Baa-baas v ABs 1973 vs Leinster v Saints 2011

For me, neither was my favourite game (that would be ABs v France 1999), but the juxtaposition of the two games emphasises the differences in the game since the heyday of the amateur era and the ultimate of the modern, professional game (at least in the NH).

Penfro Pete in his missive last Friday, noted that the Baa-baas game was televised on Scrum V. It was also shown on ESPN at least a couple of times.

Both eras were/are marred by the occasional rubbish game, but both the nominated represent the best of their time.

I loved the uncomplicated amateur game with unfussy scrums, no lifting in the line-out and generally uncomplicated defences. Today's highly conditioned players, trapdoor spider defences and selective refereeing of the basics can also produce both dross and brilliance.

There's little doubt that the modern game is technically superior, but which was the better to watch and play?

I'll have to get back to you Portnoy once I've watched the recording of the '73 game - I wasn't born until '75 and have only ever seen clips of "that try" not the actual match.

Mr Portnoys, we've been...expecting you

(strokes Cat)

V2 is now officially representative. Welcome.

For me the amateur game pre 1990 could not be sustained post 1990. It was the better game, but I think whilst most of what has happened since was necessary, even inevitable, there was something special about rugby then which hasn't survived professionalism.

The best thing about the 1973 BaBaas was that they were basically the 1971 Lions, their clubs were proud to see them play (and probably couldn't have stopped them) and tge All Blacks put their best team out and joined in the exhibition, even to the extent of providing pantomime villains on both wings.

Red get a copy of the whole game if you can. From memory (of reruns- was a bit young myself for the actual game) but some great moments. I believe the 74 Baabaas match was too.

Players like Duckham in full flight, the jpr tackle on BG, battys cheeky try- over the top and around.

Awesome...

Taylorman wrote:Red get a copy of the whole game if you can. From memory (of reruns- was a bit young myself for the actual game) but some great moments. I believe the 74 Baabaas match was too.

Players like Duckham in full flight, the jpr tackle on BG, battys cheeky try- over the top and around.

Awesome...

I recorded it Friday night, just haven't had a spare couple of hours at home to sit down and watch since . Looking forward to it.

If you recorded it off the BBC on Friday, Kiwi, it's not quite the full match. But you'll still see some great rugby

I reckon its a case of the more things change the more they stay the same. We have an imperfect game now and I'm willing to bet it was imperfect 30 years ago.

Portnoy, welcome

Both were wonderful games, typifying the era in which they were played - not really sure that I want to chose between them

SH and NH teams play each other so often now that BaaBaas games have lost some of the aura around them.

It's always hard to compare to era and rugby has changed hugely in that time.

Defence has come the top priority for most teams as opposed to attack minded play of the 70s.

Clubs were proud to see their players play for the BaaBaas which I don't think they rae these days, they more interetsed in looking after their investment which in the Pro era is understandable.

Teams certainly wouldn't have stopped players playing for the BaaBaas or International teams like they can/do now.

Port,

Since we both have been around the block a bit, I think we could agree the Rugby we have today is very different than our game 30 years ago. My opinion is the game 30 years ago was better to play in but today's game is a much better spectacle to watch.

To me, there was a different feel at the clubs back then (or am I simply waxing philosophically about a bygone era when life was simpler?). The club was everything, and the friends we rucked and mauled with are friends for life. Not quite sure the same is today, but that also could be part of a changing society. The laws, both written and unwritten were understood by everyone. The post-match made Saturday afternoon-into-evening fantastic.

However, today, at the top level, the game is played at a speed which could never be thought of at that time. The athletes are better, raw skills are better and the teams/clubs are much better coached. What may be missing today is the same streetwise Rugby savvy developed back then.

And, for the record, the referees back then let a lot go, and many were not remotely in shape. However, bad calls were made and good calls missed equally in both eras.

The free spirit of that amateur game is compelling. We all know that the BaaBaas v NZ (1973) was special.

But equally the Leinster v Saints HEC final was - but for different reasons. One was an amazing spectacle and the other an even more incredible reversal of fortunes. But both were iconic and representative of the highest level of entertainment of their era.

As for the reffing - it must have been easier in the olden days. But it does my nut in to see the simplest of laws (e.g the squint feed) go unmarshalled in the modern game. And I fear the the modern game will homogenise players - like RL. One size fits all and all are super-fit.

Port,

Old sod, I think I owe you a beer. I agree 100% with your assessment of the Leinster-Saints Final. Great stuff and worthy of being considered classic in its own way. And I also go babanas when I see things such as angled scrum feeds, "marginal" flat passes and the ever-present ruck infringments go without sanction (though it must be said, I have been known to play the ball on the ground and give an opponent a nudge in a ruck).

I always loved watching the Barbarians-AB match. But, for some reason, I cannot watch the colourized version.

Portnoy wrote:But it does my nut in to see the simplest of laws (e.g the squint feed) go unmarshalled in the modern game. And I fear the the modern game will homogenise players - like RL. One size fits all and all are super-fit.

I have recorded the BaaBaas match, but not sat down to watch it all the way through yet. I did notice a squint feed being called up early in the game though. I have also noticed that when a ref calls a squint feed early in a game these days, the put-ins tend thereafter to be straight, generally speaking.

I am old enough to remember watching the BaaBaas game live (unlike some posters who weren't even born - God, how old does that make me...). I missed the first few minutes (and that try) but remember my mother shouting at me to come and watch. I was transfixed by the game, on a grainy black and white tv (mind you, with one team in black and white and the other all black, colour wouldn't have made much difference).

As an earlier poster said, it was because it was basically the '71 Lions test team that was the major draw. We had heard how the Lions were doing, but there weren't live tv transmissions of the games. This was the only real opportunity for us in the NH to see the Lions against the ABs. There were also a number of players who were recognised AT THE TIME as being "greats". To have JPR, Duckham, Gibson, Phil B, Gareth E, Slatts etc etc all playing together was all your dreams come true (and Kirkpatrick's ABs were no slouches either). That they won, and won in such a convincing fashion added to the legendary, iconc status which that game achieved.

I was in Cardiff for the recent HC Final. I enjoyed the game, and was cheering / hoping for a Leinster win. But somehow, I did not feel emotionally engaged with the game. I am at a loss to explain this, because, unlike some finals which have been in all honesty total borefests, this one was not. I have said elsewhere that the seats I had at the MS were awful. I had a tv screen directly in front of me. I believe this is because they were such awful seats they put the screens up so that we could actually see what was going on. I found it horribly distracting and it resulted in me watching most of the game on the box and feeling that I could have sat at home for this ...

In conclusion, I would say that the BaaBaas v ABs 1973 match was better because of all the surrounding hoo-haw which was as a result of the era in which it was played.

They were both great games. They sweetly defined, different eras and they will both long live in the memory. It is what we pray will happen, when we pay our hard-earned money and travel in hope to see.
But. What about all the dross we have had to endure in between? So much RWC,HC, Jeff, ML, TOP14 and 6-N DROSS. Hindsight is a great mental editor.

I watched one on a black & white TV. Via a scrambled TV reception, via a dodgey roof-aerial. The other - I was at. I’m a Leinster fan of over 30 years standing. I cried that day.
Does that make a difference to it all?

That was the best live game I have ever had the privilege to see. And my team played in it. The Saints made it special. Destroyed us in the 1st half. Then, we woke up and played rugby from the Gods. Their fans were magnificent – hard as it was to take. I can only imagine. They will come again – soon.

Another one that still lives in the memory, was when the English team turned up at a packed Lansdowne - in the early 70's. I was with my Dad and he tried to explain the poignancy of the moment to me. A time, when Wales and Scotland would not turn up - because of the Troubles. Against all political odds - England did. And they were clapped on and off the field for doing so. I fell in love with rugby that very day. Even as a kid, I realised it transcended mere sport.

Gibson wrote:

Another one, was when the English team turned up at a packed Lansdowne - in the early 70's. I was with my Dad and he tried to explain the poignancy of the moment to me. A time, when Wales and Scotland would not turn up - because of the Troubles. Against all political odds - England did. And they were clapped on and off the field for doing so. I fell in love with rugby that very day. |Even as a kid, I realised it transcended mere sport.

I was at that game too Gibson. Irelland nilled England that day, but for once the score absolutely didn't matter. I can't even remember if it was a good game. The fact that England turned up was what mattered. We had beaten England and France away the previous year and then neither Scotland nor Wales would play in Dublin - definitely a GS that got away ... England flew in the morning of the match and had their flight booked for straight after it, but they were persuaded to stay for the after-match dinner. As their captain (I can't remember who it was) said at the dinner
"We may not be very good at playing, but at least we turned up"

The welcome they got that day from all of us was magnificent, and they absolutely deserved it.

Kia, it was John Pullin - who, neatly enough, played in the Baa-baas v All Blacks game.

Thanks Luckless - couldn't remember and wasn't bothered about looking it up.

As I remember they also had to do a quick job of hiring some DJs as they had nothing with them other than their travelling clothes and playing kit.