The first player on Gatlands team

by alive555 Sun 12 Feb 2017, 8:39 pm

Its Stuart Hogg

no question whatsoever

by SecretFly Sun 12 Feb 2017, 8:40 pm

It's Itoje.

Sure isn't he a star?

by tigertattie Sun 12 Feb 2017, 8:49 pm

Itoje will be flying the plane.

He's also going over to build the hotel they'll be staying in.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sun 12 Feb 2017, 8:50 pm

That will be Mako LH prop. Numero uno

by SecretFly Sun 12 Feb 2017, 8:53 pm

tigertattie wrote:Itoje will be flying the plane.

He's also going over to build the hotel they'll be staying in.

by alive555 Sun 12 Feb 2017, 8:59 pm

[quote="SecretFly"]It's Itoje.

Sure isn't he a star?

actually no. itoje has a huge amount of competition

hogg is head and shoulders not even above his competitors but also anyone else . by a distance

by SecretFly Sun 12 Feb 2017, 9:04 pm

Well maybe. He can over-do it too which can be a distraction to teammates that might want to keep a system/rhythm going.

Maybe you're right, alive - but then, if I'm saying 'maybe' then I suppose it's because I'm not convinced. Let's wait until the 6N is over.

by TightHEAD Sun 12 Feb 2017, 9:13 pm

Cuthbert.

Don't forget Gatland is a kiwi who wants the All Blacks to win.

by Gwlad Mon 13 Feb 2017, 2:10 am

i see the kids have been left alone again.

Warburton, as skipper.

by BigTrevsbigmac Mon 13 Feb 2017, 5:45 am

Gwlad wrote: i see the kids have been left alone again.

Warburton, as skipper.

Surely we're flying there not sailing?

by geoff999rugby Mon 13 Feb 2017, 9:06 am

Certainties (if fit) - Billy Vunipola, Itoje, Hogg, Furlong, Farrell, Tuperic, Stander

by hugehandoff Mon 13 Feb 2017, 9:39 am

Cuthbert

by rapidsnowman Mon 13 Feb 2017, 11:09 am

Poor Cuthbert.

I watched the last 30 minutes or so of the match - during that time he lost the ball in the tackle once and missed Daly for the try.

All I could think of was 606 are going to go to town on him Sad

by Brad71090 Mon 13 Feb 2017, 11:12 am

CJ Stander

by **rodders** Mon 13 Feb 2017, 11:12 am

AW Jones.

by international198 Tue 14 Feb 2017, 6:45 pm

Ross Moriarty

by Scottrf Tue 14 Feb 2017, 6:46 pm

Billy Vunipola.

by international198 Tue 14 Feb 2017, 6:48 pm

So many good players will miss out on Lions selection, IMO. I can see Dan Biggar, Sam Davies, Scott Williams, George North and Leigh Halfpenny all not going.

by international198 Tue 14 Feb 2017, 6:49 pm

international198 wrote:So many fantastic players will miss out on Lions selection, IMO. I can see Dan Biggar, Sam Davies, Scott Williams, George North and Leigh Halfpenny all not going.

by Gwlad Tue 14 Feb 2017, 6:57 pm

international198 wrote:
international198 wrote:So many fantastic players will miss out on Lions selection, IMO. I can see Dan Biggar, Sam Davies, Scott Williams, George North and Leigh Halfpenny all not going.

and Alex Faultless Cuthbert no doubt.

Rolling Eyes

by WELL-PAST-IT Tue 14 Feb 2017, 8:14 pm

alive555 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It's Itoje.

Sure isn't he a star?

actually no. itoje has a huge amount of competition

hogg is head and shoulders not even above his competitors but also anyone else . by a distance

He is probably the shortest 15 in the 6N, Brown, 1/2p, and Kearney all look taller. Other options such as Williams, Watson, Daly and Zebo are all much taller. I suspect that Toner might dispute the second comment.

Seriously, in attack..........best by a mile. In defence .................... the worst by just as long a mile.

Outsider for the me................Daly. Very quick, big boot, left foot, 3 point possibilities from 60m, sound defence...................potentially has it all. I suspect he may be tried against Italy.

by InjuredYetAgain Tue 14 Feb 2017, 9:03 pm

international198 wrote:So many good players will miss out on Lions selection, IMO. I can see Dan Biggar, Sam Davies, Scott Williams, George North and Leigh Halfpenny all not going.

George North not going??? The only way he will miss out is if he gets another concussion.What wingers are ahead of him?

In reply to the OP, it will be AWJ.

I'd be very pleasantly surprised if Hogg plays in a test match let alone be the first name on the teamsheet. Gatland's team selections can be difficult to fathom

by TJ Tue 14 Feb 2017, 10:25 pm

Injured - what wingers are ahead of North? Seymour, Liam Williams, Maitland and a couple of English wings

by nathan Tue 14 Feb 2017, 10:48 pm

I think it will be Webb. His dishonesty will be needed to try and buy decisions from the ref.

by Gwlad Wed 15 Feb 2017, 2:49 am

Unless he has a major drop in from or is injured, North will go. He's a big game player who while having had his issues with fitness usually has an impact on big games, and he has Lions experience.

And i would day Biggar is playing himself into contention. I can't see Halfpenny at 15 but i do think kicking will be covered by Farrell who is nailed on at 12 IMO.

by GunsGermsV2 Wed 15 Feb 2017, 8:51 am

I hope Chris Robshaw makes the plane this time. Would be harsh if he didnt.

by tigertattie Wed 15 Feb 2017, 9:09 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I hope Chris Robshaw makes the plane this time. Would be harsh if he didnt.

Very good and very under-rated player!

by pbuk0 Wed 15 Feb 2017, 11:29 am

Only guaranteed starters at this point are Itoje, Hogg and Farrell. They probably should pick the captain from one of these 3...

by RugbyFan100 Wed 15 Feb 2017, 11:36 am

Hogg can't tackle for goodness sake. He's dynamite in the opposition half but goes to pieces in his own. Why can't people see that?

by No 7&1/2 Wed 15 Feb 2017, 11:39 am

He's head and shoulders best full back in the nh. Clearly he can tackle but it's not his strongest point.

by marty2086 Wed 15 Feb 2017, 11:40 am

Everyone talking about Hogg being a certainty, showed on Sunday he still isn't the best defender. The ABs would have a field day with him

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:00 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Hogg can't tackle for goodness sake. He's dynamite in the opposition half but goes to pieces in his own. Why can't people see that?

You are never going to shut the all blacks out. Ever. Let's assume for one minute that they get possession for 50% of the match (although it will likely be higher) that's 40 minutes with the ball in hand. They will score tries, especially against a scratch touring side with an inevitably unfamiliar defensive system. IMO defence isn't that important, Hogg's attacking threat massively outweighs his perceived defensive frailties.

In addition his tackling isn't as bad as posters on here make out. Tackles missed and made in this years 6N :

Hogg 8/3
Halfpenny 4/1
Brown 3/1
L Williams 12/3
Kearney 4/0
Zebo 9/0

I have listed the key contenders for the Lions full back position. Obviously the only full backs or potential fullbacks to cross the whitewash so far are Williams and Hogg, with 2 and 3 tries respectively. Worth bearing in mind that Wales and Ireland have also both played Italy so I'd expect the tackle averages for the English and Scottish contingent to be flattered a bit by those respective upcoming fixtures.

Since I'd pick both with Williams on the wing I'm not sure it's an issue. Hogg is the best attacking full back in the NH at the moment and his try scoring record speaks for itself. As the stats show his defending isn't as desperate as some would make out.

On another note if I were to pick 2 players from each nation I wouldn't want the plane to leave without these would be the players:

Ireland: CJ Stander and Robbie Henshaw
Wales : AW Jones and Ross Moriarty
England : Owen Farrell and Chris Robshaw
Scotland : Stuart Hogg and Johnny Gray

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:15 pm

In addition, being a good defender is a handy skill set for a full back, but it's worth bearing in mind that the full back is the last line of defence. Not the first.

by Scottrf Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:16 pm

i.e. if he missed a tackle there's nobody else to stop the try.

by beshocked Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:21 pm

It will be North, shouldn't be but will.

As for wingers ahead of him - I'd take Seymour,Maitland,Zebo,Williams and Nowell currently.

Some other wingers might get ahead too.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:22 pm

Good job he makes more than he misses then.

by BamBam Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:23 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

On another note if I were to pick 2 players from each nation I wouldn't want the plane to leave without these would be the players:

Ireland: CJ Stander and Robbie Henshaw
Wales : AW Jones and Ross Moriarty
England : Owen Farrell and Chris Robshaw
Scotland : Stuart Hogg and Johnny Gray

I like the idea, but surely Moriarty isn't just based on 3 tackles against England?

Wales - Toby Faletau and Liam Williams (Warbs/Tips/Webb/Biggar would all be far more likely to be my two than AWJ or Moriarty)
Scotland - Hogg and J Gray
Ireland - Stander and Murray
England - Farrell and JJ

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:26 pm

BamBam wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

On another note if I were to pick 2 players from each nation I wouldn't want the plane to leave without these would be the players:

Ireland: CJ Stander and Robbie Henshaw
Wales : AW Jones and Ross Moriarty
England : Owen Farrell and Chris Robshaw
Scotland : Stuart Hogg and Johnny Gray

I like the idea, but surely Moriarty isn't just based on 3 tackles against England?

Wales - Toby Faletau and Liam Williams (Warbs/Tips/Webb/Biggar would all be far more likely to be my two than AWJ or Moriarty)
Scotland - Hogg and J Gray
Ireland - Stander and Murray
England - Farrell and JJ

Nah, I've been a fan of Moriarty for a while, he offers something completely different from any of the other Welsh backrowers.

by SecretFly Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:33 pm

Wales - Warburton , Liam Williams
Scotland - Seymour, Strauss
Ireland - Heaslip, Ringrose
England - Ben Youngs, Danny Care.

by BamBam Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:43 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
BamBam wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

On another note if I were to pick 2 players from each nation I wouldn't want the plane to leave without these would be the players:

Ireland: CJ Stander and Robbie Henshaw
Wales : AW Jones and Ross Moriarty
England : Owen Farrell and Chris Robshaw
Scotland : Stuart Hogg and Johnny Gray

I like the idea, but surely Moriarty isn't just based on 3 tackles against England?

Wales - Toby Faletau and Liam Williams (Warbs/Tips/Webb/Biggar would all be far more likely to be my two than AWJ or Moriarty)
Scotland - Hogg and J Gray
Ireland - Stander and Murray
England - Farrell and JJ

Nah, I've been a fan of Moriarty for a while, he offers something completely different from any of the other Welsh backrowers.

He does, but of all the Welsh players I can't pick him out as being one of the two most essential! All opinions though Hug

by marty2086 Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:44 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Hogg can't tackle for goodness sake. He's dynamite in the opposition half but goes to pieces in his own. Why can't people see that?

You are never going to shut the all blacks out. Ever. Let's assume for one minute that they get possession for 50% of the match (although it will likely be higher) that's 40 minutes with the ball in hand. They will score tries, especially against a scratch touring side with an inevitably unfamiliar defensive system. IMO defence isn't that important, Hogg's attacking threat massively outweighs his perceived defensive frailties.

In addition his tackling isn't as bad as posters on here make out. Tackles missed and made in this years 6N :

Hogg 8/3
Halfpenny 4/1
Brown 3/1
L Williams 12/3
Kearney 4/0
Zebo 9/0

I have listed the key contenders for the Lions full back position. Obviously the only full backs or potential fullbacks to cross the whitewash so far are Williams and Hogg, with 2 and 3 tries respectively. Worth bearing in mind that Wales and Ireland have also both played Italy so I'd expect the tackle averages for the English and Scottish contingent to be flattered a bit by those respective upcoming fixtures.

Since I'd pick both with Williams on the wing I'm not sure it's an issue. Hogg is the best attacking full back in the NH at the moment and his try scoring record speaks for itself. As the stats show his defending isn't as desperate as some would make out.

On another note if I were to pick 2 players from each nation I wouldn't want the plane to leave without these would be the players:

Ireland: CJ Stander and Robbie Henshaw
Wales : AW Jones and Ross Moriarty
England : Owen Farrell and Chris Robshaw
Scotland : Stuart Hogg and Johnny Gray

So Hogg has missed a greater percentage of his tackles? Definitely not as bad as some are making out Whistle

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:52 pm

People go on about him like he's a saloon door though. He makes a decent amount of tackle. He's made 8 and missed 3. Tackle completion percentage of 72%

It's not exactly a hysterical statistic. You want to leave him behind or put him in the dirt trackers fine. I just hoped that we'd go out and attack NZ instead of trying to contain them and Hogg is by some distance our best attacking weapon, but hey, whatever you think is best.

by R!skysports Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:54 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Hogg can't tackle for goodness sake. He's dynamite in the opposition half but goes to pieces in his own. Why can't people see that?

You are never going to shut the all blacks out. Ever. Let's assume for one minute that they get possession for 50% of the match (although it will likely be higher) that's 40 minutes with the ball in hand. They will score tries, especially against a scratch touring side with an inevitably unfamiliar defensive system. IMO defence isn't that important, Hogg's attacking threat massively outweighs his perceived defensive frailties.

In addition his tackling isn't as bad as posters on here make out. Tackles missed and made in this years 6N :

Hogg 8/3
Halfpenny 4/1
Brown 3/1
L Williams 12/3
Kearney 4/0
Zebo 9/0

I have listed the key contenders for the Lions full back position. Obviously the only full backs or potential fullbacks to cross the whitewash so far are Williams and Hogg, with 2 and 3 tries respectively. Worth bearing in mind that Wales and Ireland have also both played Italy so I'd expect the tackle averages for the English and Scottish contingent to be flattered a bit by those respective upcoming fixtures.

Since I'd pick both with Williams on the wing I'm not sure it's an issue. Hogg is the best attacking full back in the NH at the moment and his try scoring record speaks for itself. As the stats show his defending isn't as desperate as some would make out.

On another note if I were to pick 2 players from each nation I wouldn't want the plane to leave without these would be the players:

Ireland: CJ Stander and Robbie Henshaw
Wales : AW Jones and Ross Moriarty
England : Owen Farrell and Chris Robshaw
Scotland : Stuart Hogg and Johnny Gray

So Hogg has missed a greater percentage of his tackles? Definitely not as bad as some are making out

Yes, 1 more tackle than Halfpenny (if you double his tackles) who is talked about as the best every defensive full back in existence

And bearing in mind the amount of pressure Scotland were under in both the French and Ireland match - with the line bending and defense scrambling - it is not that bad

I think most people would admit it is not his strength - but also reject the idea that it is 1 millions times worst than anyone and automatically excludes him from being allowed to grace a rugby field (which seems to be the opinion from some people here)

by Scottrf Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:55 pm

R!skysports wrote:Yes, 1 more tackle than Halfpenny (if you double his tackles) who is talked about as the best every defensive full back in existence

The one for the French try?

Stats like this in isolation are useless.

by TightHEAD Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:58 pm

The way I see it is you can take a collection of talented players who are in decent form for their respective Countries or you can build a team around a gameplan to do the job vs NZ

Unfortunatly I don't believe Gatland is the right man to do either, but I'd rather see a Team built around a gameplan rather than a few superstars starting for the Test team.

If that means players like Hogg miss out so be it.

by marty2086 Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:58 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:People go on about him like he's a saloon door though. He makes a decent amount of tackle. He's made 8 and missed 3. Tackle completion percentage of 72%

It's not exactly a hysterical statistic. You want to leave him behind or put him in the dirt trackers fine. I just hoped that we'd go out and attack NZ instead of trying to contain them and Hogg is by some distance our best attacking weapon, but hey, whatever you think is best.

No hes not our best attacking weapon, hes a great attacking asset but theres no point in him scoring a great try if he doesn't have the ability to keep out one at the other end

I like Hogg but I just think his flash makes people miss his flaws and the ABs are a team that'll exploit him. I think FB could be a tough call whichever way it goes as all the so called contenders have pluses and minuses for me

by TJ Wed 15 Feb 2017, 1:04 pm

Scotland really play with 2 full backs interchanging - Hogg and Maitland

by TJ Wed 15 Feb 2017, 1:06 pm

I don't think anyone is nailed on yet - the outstanding candidates like Hogg or Gray are in competition with a number of other outstanding contenders.

Perhaps Biggar and Sexton are the only near certainties for the plane right now maybe with Murray

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 15 Feb 2017, 1:07 pm

If Hogg misses out I'd gladly see him on our tour to Australia.

He's not the best defensive fullback, but he is demonstrably the best attacking fullback. If the team selected is based around defence the Lions will lose the series. Attacking them is our best option. If other on here think that there are better attacking options than Hogg, it just goes to show that the Lions are not as inclusive as we'd all hope it could be.

So we've established that Hogg isn't the best defender, ergo cannot be selected, who do you pick instead?

On another note, if Hogg is not the best attacking back we have at our disposal I'm interested to hear who you think is the best attacking back we have marty

by marty2086 Wed 15 Feb 2017, 1:09 pm

TJ wrote:I don't think anyone is nailed on yet - the outstanding candidates like Hogg or Gray are in competition with a number of other outstanding contenders.

Perhaps Biggar and Sexton are the only near certainties for the plane right now maybe with Murray

Sexton may not be the Ireland 10 never mind Lions

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