Ulster 2016/2017

by marty2086 Mon 13 Feb 2017, 9:43 am

First topic message reminder :

And it's been confirmed

Ulster Rugby has today announced that Jono Gibbes will join the Province as Head Coach ahead of the 2017/18 season, having signed a two-year contract.

The former New Zealand player is currently Forwards Coach at French giants ASM Clermont Auvergne and he previously held a similar position at Leinster Rugby.

Gibbes joined Leinster in 2008, helping the squad to win three Heineken Cup titles during a six-year spell in Dublin. The first of those successes came under the stewardship of Michael Cheika in 2009, before he assisted Joe Schmidt in the 2011 and 2012 triumphs.

He moved to France in 2014 and was part of a coaching set-up that guided Clermont to the Top 14 and Champions Cup finals in his debut season.

In addition to his expertise in forward play, the 40-year-old has also gained valuable experience in coaching other aspects of the game, such as attack, during his stints at Leinster and Clermont.

Gibbes said that there were many contributing factors in his move back to Ireland:

"The respect that I have for Les (Kiss), as a coach and as a person, was one of my main reasons for making this decision. He really sold his vision of where he wants to take Ulster over the next few years.

"Ulster is a team that I know well, having come up against them on a number of occasions. The Clermont-Ulster games this season gave me an insight into the strengths of the squad and it's exciting to think that I'll be part of that environment from next season.

"With 6 years at Leinster and 3 years at Clermont in the Top 14, I've been afforded many different experiences, working with some very talented coaches and players. I hope to apply what I've learned to the role at Ulster and my family and I are looking forward to integrating into a strong community in Belfast."

Welcoming the news, Director of Rugby Les Kiss, added:

"Jono's CV speaks for itself and I know that he's looking forward to joining Ulster and working with the team. Jono has vast experience on both the playing and coaching fronts, having worked in many different environments such as Super Rugby, PRO12, the French Top 14 and European competitions.

"Since his retirement from playing, Jono has had an integral role in the coaching teams of two of European rugby's most successful sides. He was a key part of the Leinster set-up that won three Heineken Cups in four years and he has continued to be hugely successful during his time in France.

"Jono's expertise as a Forwards Coach is obvious, however his wealth of knowledge in other areas of the game will be really important for us."

"A review of the coaching structure is ongoing ahead of next season and the appointment of Jono as Head Coach is the first part of that process. A further announcement will be made in the coming weeks, which will focus on getting the right balance in our coaching team."

by marty2086 Tue 14 Mar 2017, 4:25 pm

clivemcl wrote:Not saying no to a medical joker, but whats the chances of signing somebody even close to Coetzee standard? It's a big loss anyway - bigger if we don't get allowed a medical joker. Considering we with have Botha in our backrow, I wouldn't be surprised if we are told to get on with it.

Might be a few players going at Stade Francais Whistle

by Guest Tue 14 Mar 2017, 4:30 pm

marty2086 wrote:Sorry Munchkin

It wouldn't be the first time I've had to fact check my own memory Smile

I just checked on YouTube and the other forum. No full match video up yet, so I will have to wait.

by Guest Tue 14 Mar 2017, 4:32 pm

marty2086 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Not saying no to a medical joker, but whats the chances of signing somebody even close to Coetzee standard? It's a big loss anyway - bigger if we don't get allowed a medical joker. Considering we with have Botha in our backrow, I wouldn't be surprised if we are told to get on with it.

Might be a few players going at Stade Francais

I was thinking the same thing. Might be a few players without contracts soon enough.

by Redman Tue 14 Mar 2017, 4:34 pm

It's on BBC iPlayer Munchkin.

I can't get the link from work but typing it on the phone it appears to be :

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08jkkpk/ulster-rugby-live-201617-ulster-zebre

by Redman Tue 14 Mar 2017, 4:38 pm

It's 24:30 into the video (not the match day clock). Looks like the left knee to me but it is hard to tell with the limp.

by clivemcl Tue 14 Mar 2017, 4:44 pm

It would appear that SA news are the ones running with the Coetzee injury story. Don't know how reliable they are. I'll be pretty annoyed if it turns out to be rumour and hearsay.

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.netwerk24.com%2FSport%2FRugby%2Fmarcell-coetzee-se-kniebesering-glo-ernstig-20170314&edit-text=&act=url

by clivemcl Tue 14 Mar 2017, 4:46 pm

marty2086 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Not saying no to a medical joker, but whats the chances of signing somebody even close to Coetzee standard? It's a big loss anyway - bigger if we don't get allowed a medical joker. Considering we with have Botha in our backrow, I wouldn't be surprised if we are told to get on with it.

Might be a few players going at Stade Francais

I'd happily let Parisse come for a while!

by Guest Tue 14 Mar 2017, 4:52 pm

Redman wrote:It's on BBC iPlayer Munchkin.

I can't get the link from work but typing it on the phone it appears to be :

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08jkkpk/ulster-rugby-live-201617-ulster-zebre

You're a star kiss

by marty2086 Tue 14 Mar 2017, 4:54 pm

clivemcl wrote:It would appear that SA news are the ones running with the Coetzee injury story. Don't know how reliable they are. I'll be pretty annoyed if it turns out to be rumour and hearsay.

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.netwerk24.com%2FSport%2FRugby%2Fmarcell-coetzee-se-kniebesering-glo-ernstig-20170314&edit-text=&act=url

I'd say not very reliable as they say it was in a European game and it was the same knee. Kiss said it was the other knee but it doesn't look good in the video, he was standing in the defensive line and something seemed to go

by clivemcl Tue 14 Mar 2017, 4:58 pm

Watching the game again, It does seem that at 18:55 when the injury is first looked at, the medic/physio slaps his leg as if to say
'you're fine!' and gets up. Marcel doesn't get up immediately but asks a few more questions. It almost appears like he is shocked to be told to play on.

Somebody else want to watch and see if I've got my tinfoil hat on?

I've watched a few plays after that - he was trying to avoid contact. He made very little effort for the Zebre try. He was certainly limping a bit. The further damage appears to have been done when Gilroy kicked and chased and Coetzee tried to run on it to keep up with play.

I do wonder if questions need to be asked about him staying on the field. He did not look injury free for one second after the physio/medic first treated him.

steam

by Redman Tue 14 Mar 2017, 5:03 pm

It's the left knee that was injured against Zebre.

Ulster 2016/2017 - Page 11 P04wkhpf

Does anyone know where you'd see the incision point for ACL reconstruction?

Ulster 2016/2017 - Page 11 Page42_coetzee

by Guest Tue 14 Mar 2017, 5:05 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The initial diagnosis was mild ligament strain and 4/5 weeks out but they had to do further scans to check for any other damage. If there was anything more serious I doubt he would have carried on like he did

He carried on after the first knock, but not the second. Didn't look good with him being helped off.

Still nothing official, so still keeping my fingers crossed.

Was there a second knock though? I thought it was more just a case of him trying to tough it out and not being up to it

Ok, just checked it again (16:40 on the link Redman provided), and it looks as though his injury from the first knock has been aggravated by continuing play, rather than a direct knock.

by Redman Tue 14 Mar 2017, 5:09 pm

clivemcl wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Not saying no to a medical joker, but whats the chances of signing somebody even close to Coetzee standard? It's a big loss anyway - bigger if we don't get allowed a medical joker. Considering we with have Botha in our backrow, I wouldn't be surprised if we are told to get on with it.

Might be a few players going at Stade Francais

I'd happily let Parisse come for a while!

One of my favourite players. He'd be a joy to have playing for us even if he is getting a bit long in the tooth.

by clivemcl Tue 14 Mar 2017, 5:45 pm

Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The initial diagnosis was mild ligament strain and 4/5 weeks out but they had to do further scans to check for any other damage. If there was anything more serious I doubt he would have carried on like he did

He carried on after the first knock, but not the second. Didn't look good with him being helped off.

Still nothing official, so still keeping my fingers crossed.

Was there a second knock though? I thought it was more just a case of him trying to tough it out and not being up to it

Ok, just checked it again (16:40 on the link Redman provided), and it looks as though his injury from the first knock has been aggravated by continuing play, rather than a direct knock.

Munchkin, check 18:55 for me. Does it look to you as if Coetzee is expecting to go off the field? Or is it just me?

by Guest Tue 14 Mar 2017, 6:52 pm

clivemcl wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The initial diagnosis was mild ligament strain and 4/5 weeks out but they had to do further scans to check for any other damage. If there was anything more serious I doubt he would have carried on like he did

He carried on after the first knock, but not the second. Didn't look good with him being helped off.

Still nothing official, so still keeping my fingers crossed.

Was there a second knock though? I thought it was more just a case of him trying to tough it out and not being up to it

Ok, just checked it again (16:40 on the link Redman provided), and it looks as though his injury from the first knock has been aggravated by continuing play, rather than a direct knock.

Munchkin, check 18:55 for me. Does it look to you as if Coetzee is expecting to go off the field? Or is it just me?

The 16:40 I mentioned is the match clock time. 24:18 on recording time. His leg just seems to give up without any contact, so have to think it was a result of the first knock.

His leg takes a knock just before Marshall's first try, and he's limping straight after that.

I looked at it a few times, Clive, and it's impossible to say. The thing is that Coetzee was in obvious pain. If the medics watched him limping then maybe they should have taken him off, given his history with injuries, rather than allow him to play on. That said; the medic did appear to give him a thorough on field check, and Coetzee did a short sprint just after getting to his feet, and so it's difficult to find fault with the medics, methinks.

by geoff999rugby Tue 14 Mar 2017, 7:03 pm

clivemcl wrote:Not saying no to a medical joker, but whats the chances of signing somebody even close to Coetzee standard? It's a big loss anyway - bigger if we don't get allowed a medical joker. Considering we with have Botha in our backrow, I wouldn't be surprised if we are told to get on with it.

I think we could get one as we will be down to 2+1

by geoff999rugby Tue 14 Mar 2017, 7:06 pm

clivemcl wrote:It would appear that SA news are the ones running with the Coetzee injury story. Don't know how reliable they are. I'll be pretty annoyed if it turns out to be rumour and hearsay.

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.netwerk24.com%2FSport%2FRugby%2Fmarcell-coetzee-se-kniebesering-glo-ernstig-20170314&edit-text=&act=url

That's good news - basically people who have no contact just guessing.

Annoyed he has not taken off when first injured though - bloody stupid

by Rory_Gallagher Tue 14 Mar 2017, 7:23 pm

Yeah, why would you take a risk with one of your key players who has just returned from an ACL injury? Should have been off the moment he was having issues with it.

by marty2086 Tue 14 Mar 2017, 7:26 pm

SQUAD UPDATE: 14 MARCH 2017
14 March 2017 17:36pm
By Richard Finlay
Marcell Coetzee
Here is an injury update following the Ireland, Ulster and Ulster A games which took place at the weekend...

Tommy Bowe sustained a left ankle fracture in the Ireland v Wales game on Friday night. He underwent surgery today (Tuesday) to stabilise the fracture and he is expected to be sidelined for 8-12 weeks.

Marcell Coetzee sustained a significant left knee injury in the fixture against Zebre on Saturday evening. He will undergo exploratory surgery next week to fully ascertain the extent of the injury.

Conor Joyce (right knee), Jonny Murphy (left shoulder) and Ross Kane (right thumb) sustained injuries in the Ulster A game against Munster A on Sunday afternoon.

Andrew Trimble has had surgery for a left hand fracture sustained in the game against Treviso at the start of the month. He is expected return to action in approximately four weeks.

These players join Jonny Simpson (neck), Callum Patterson (ankle), Lorcan Dow (ankle), Louis Ludik (concussion), Kyle McCall (hamstring), Stuart McCloskey (calf), Johnny McPhillips (groin), Stephen Mulholland (shoulder) and Rob Lyttle (shoulder) on the current injury list.

Not a good sign

by Guest Tue 14 Mar 2017, 7:30 pm

No it isn't. Sounds like he will out for another 9/10 months.

by Redman Tue 14 Mar 2017, 7:44 pm

So are we saying it's the same knee? Does anyone know?

by marty2086 Tue 14 Mar 2017, 7:54 pm

BBC are reporting it is the same knee, which is an even more worrying sign

by carpet baboon Tue 14 Mar 2017, 8:05 pm

Well that's Frak gash

by Redman Tue 14 Mar 2017, 8:07 pm

If it is as bad as feared we'll probably be out of Europe again before he returns.

by Redman Tue 14 Mar 2017, 8:47 pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/ulster-signing-marcell-coetzee-ruled-out-for-nine-months-1.2606325

That article is dated 2 days after he got injured for Sharks last year.

If you're an optimist you say "well maybe it's not as bad or obvious this time around and they need more time to diagnosis it." The realist however would say that season ticket renewals are coming up and the PR machine won't want to rock the boat too much. I know what my money is on.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue 14 Mar 2017, 9:22 pm

What a total disaster.

by Maine man Tue 14 Mar 2017, 9:37 pm

If it's bad surely ulster need to release him from his contract and head to Stade Francais and Racing Metro and pick the bones of the inevitable fall out there. Can't afford to be sentimental.

by marty2086 Tue 14 Mar 2017, 9:42 pm

Maine man wrote:If it's bad surely ulster need to release him from his contract and head to Stade Francais and Racing Metro and pick the bones of the inevitable fall out there. Can't afford to be sentimental.

Its not sentimental to not break a contract, what does it say to players if you throw them on the scrapheap when they are injured? Its pretty classless and Ulster are better than that, if you want loyalty from players you have to show it in return

by Guest Tue 14 Mar 2017, 10:44 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Maine man wrote:If it's bad surely ulster need to release him from his contract and head to Stade Francais and Racing Metro and pick the bones of the inevitable fall out there. Can't afford to be sentimental.

Its not sentimental to not break a contract, what does it say to players if you throw them on the scrapheap when they are injured? Its pretty classless and Ulster are better than that, if you want loyalty from players you have to show it in return

Yours is a very reasonable argument, marty, and my heart agrees, but my head says he is an NIQ who we will be lucky to get a seasons from in a 3 year contract. If he is out for 9/10 months, and his knee goes again, what then? It's a huge risk to keep him, and an NIQ spot wasted for possibly 3 years, as well as a big financial write-off. From an Ulster perspective, it's better to cut the losses, sign a player with no long-term injury history, and move on. It isn't nice, and it isn't classy, but it's the best Ulster can do for itself.

by clivemcl Tue 14 Mar 2017, 10:51 pm

I assume he is contractually protected though and still receives money owed to him? Just that he has to go elsewhere for his recovery. And as Geoff mentioned before, an insurance claim covers UR for the financial loss - no?

It all comes down to how good of a medical joker can we get versus, how good an NIQ can we sign on a full contract if we cut our losses.

It could be a Diack standard medical joker, or a Coetzee standard full contract replacement.

by Guest Tue 14 Mar 2017, 11:00 pm

It's doubtful we can sign any player of Coetzee's talent as a medical joker. If we can't sign a medical joker, comparable to Coetzee, that would mean continuing to pay Coetzee while also paying for the less talented medical joker.

by clivemcl Tue 14 Mar 2017, 11:12 pm

Just to make it easier for some to watch, here it is. Footage switches to shows the Zebre kick but then comes back to Coetzee's treatment. You see Coetzee getting a wee slap on the leg, and the medic/physio get up to leave. Coetzee doesn't get up but continues to talk to them. It just looks to me like he was surprised he was being allowed to play on. Either way, it's surely an idiotic call not to exercise caution at this point. But unfortunately, the complaint worsened 6 minutes later. For the duration of those 6 minutes, Coetzee avoided contact and ball carrying and was obviously limping. It all makes me rather furious.

https://youtu.be/5uHdEGyV7KU?t=17m32s

by marty2086 Tue 14 Mar 2017, 11:19 pm

Think you're reading too much into it clive, don't think he avoided contact anywhere just never got the chance to go into contact. He was on the inside of Piutau for Marshalls second try looking for the ball

by Guest Tue 14 Mar 2017, 11:33 pm

We need to bring in Matty Rea from the cold.

by Redman Wed 15 Mar 2017, 12:33 am

Munchkin wrote:We need to bring in Matty Rea from the cold.

Crazy talk. There's more likelihood of us putting our collective brain power together and inventing a time machine to send a message back to the coaching staff telling them to take Coetzee off before he gets injured. Let's focus on realistic goals please.

by Guest Wed 15 Mar 2017, 12:47 am

Apologies, Redman. It's close to my bedtime, and must have had a wee brain wobble.

Of course Ulster Rugby will do the right thing, and search the world for an already injured medical joker. Makes sense, as no other side will touch him, and we get him at a budget price. Win win Cool

Many think Matty is a very promising player, and very probably an international prospect, but who in their right mind wants to promote home-grown talent? Anyway, we don't need him as there are plenty of Irish qualified players from elsewhere that other teams ~~can't wait to get rid of~~ would be willing to negotiate a release to Ulster, once the ~~extortionate~~ price is right. We can't lose for winning Yahoo

by Redman Wed 15 Mar 2017, 1:15 am

Now your thinking like part of the Ulster Rugby management team.

by marty2086 Wed 15 Mar 2017, 9:15 am

Munchkin wrote:We need to bring in Matty Rea from the cold.

Did I read Rea got man of the match in Cork on Sunday?

by Guest Wed 15 Mar 2017, 2:45 pm

A poster on another forum has said that Rea got man of the match, even though Ulster were well beaten. It must have been some performance.

by marty2086 Wed 15 Mar 2017, 3:33 pm

Munchkin wrote:A poster on another forum has said that Rea got man of the match, even though Ulster were well beaten. It must have been some performance.

Thought I saw Ulster poster something on Facebook about it but can't find it now but was thinking the same myself and then there's his brother in the u20s too

by Guest Wed 15 Mar 2017, 4:21 pm

Just had a search, and couldn't find anything about MotM.

Talented brothers, but I have high hopes for Matty, if Ulster can do the unthinkable and give him the game time he needs. With Coetzee out, now would be a good time to give him a bench spot at least.

by Redman Wed 15 Mar 2017, 4:30 pm

If only we had a game coming up, say against rock-bottom of the league opposition, that we could blood him in?

by Don Alfonso Wed 15 Mar 2017, 4:58 pm

There was a picture on Twitter of him getting a MotM handshake.

Here it is:

https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/840969877955477504

by marty2086 Wed 15 Mar 2017, 5:00 pm

Munchkin wrote:Just had a search, and couldn't find anything about MotM.

Talented brothers, but I have high hopes for Matty, if Ulster can do the unthinkable and give him the game time he needs. With Coetzee out, now would be a good time to give him a bench spot at least.

Don't need him sure we have Reliable Rog

by Guest Wed 15 Mar 2017, 5:09 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:There was a picture on Twitter of him getting a MotM handshake.

Here it is:

https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/840969877955477504

Thanks, Don. Some achievement when considering the result.

by Guest Wed 15 Mar 2017, 5:17 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Just had a search, and couldn't find anything about MotM.

Talented brothers, but I have high hopes for Matty, if Ulster can do the unthinkable and give him the game time he needs. With Coetzee out, now would be a good time to give him a bench spot at least.

Don't need him sure we have Reliable Rog

Aye, it's the Ulster way. Thought Kiss might be different, but not a bit mad

Hopefully Gibbes is a bit more 'forward' thinking.

by Guest Wed 15 Mar 2017, 5:21 pm

Paul Marshall had a good game on Saturday, and I can't help but think it's probably because Shanahan is really challenging him. It might be that Marshall was content with his bench spot (not challenging Pienaar), and didn't feel the need to up his game, until his bench spot was under threat?

by clivemcl Wed 15 Mar 2017, 11:38 pm

Munchkin wrote:Paul Marshall had a good game on Saturday, and I can't help but think it's probably because Shanahan is really challenging him. It might be that Marshall was content with his bench spot (not challenging Pienaar), and didn't feel the need to up his game, until his bench spot was under threat?

Would we not have seen him up his game then as soon as Pienaar was told he had to leave? That would have been the point he knew he had to prove himself, but it didn't happen. I think we are being unfair. Marshall has the ability to be good - he just wasn't being good. Much like the rest of our squad up until a few weeks ago when Coetzee got his debut.

I just don't see the fuss on Shanahan. If his main attribute is less brain farts than Paul, that doesn't say much. I love exciting have a go rugby, and I guess thats why I'll always have a soft spot for him. But I think the starting spot next season will be between Marshall and Cooney. Hopefully they challenge each other to be better.

by Guest Thu 16 Mar 2017, 12:55 am

clivemcl wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Paul Marshall had a good game on Saturday, and I can't help but think it's probably because Shanahan is really challenging him. It might be that Marshall was content with his bench spot (not challenging Pienaar), and didn't feel the need to up his game, until his bench spot was under threat?

Would we not have seen him up his game then as soon as Pienaar was told he had to leave? That would have been the point he knew he had to prove himself, but it didn't happen. I think we are being unfair. Marshall has the ability to be good - he just wasn't being good. Much like the rest of our squad up until a few weeks ago when Coetzee got his debut.

I just don't see the fuss on Shanahan. If his main attribute is less brain farts than Paul, that doesn't say much. I love exciting have a go rugby, and I guess thats why I'll always have a soft spot for him. But I think the starting spot next season will be between Marshall and Cooney. Hopefully they challenge each other to be better.

Marshall will soon be 32, has been with Ulster since 2006 (192 appearances according to UR website) and has had all the benefit of being understudy to one of the worlds best - Pienaar.

Shanahan will soon be 24, and has 13 appearances for Ulster.

The above doesn't reflect well on Marshall when Shanahan is already close to taking the bench spot from him.

There isn't anything that Marshall has that Shanahan is missing, other than brain farts. Shanahan is certainly a player, like Marshall, that will have a go. Unlike Marshall he knows when to have a go, and generally makes the right calls.

What struck me as odd about Marshall playing v Zebre was that he actually looked like he had his war head on, that he had something to prove, that he was resolute in having a good game. It was more his body language and facial expressions (watch him after he scores the second try), that struck me, as well as generally not having brain farts. Seemed to me that he was fighting for his bench spot, and possibly his place in the senior side next season.

I do have a soft spot for Marshall, and was a Marshall apologist up until about 2 seasons ago, but gave up due to frustration. Pienaar moving on has probably added to that frustration as I was really hoping it would motivate Marshall up a level.

I'm not sure that Marshall will feature much in the senior side next season. Shanahan or one of the young hopefuls for me, with Cooney leading the way.

by Maine man Thu 16 Mar 2017, 2:37 am

IMO. They both aren't good enough

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