Newport Gwent Dragons 2016/17 thread

[Luckless Pedestrian]

First topic message reminder :

I understand that some players haven't had a break for a while, but still, either it's a must-win game (with a bonus point) or it isn't.

[Stone Motif]

My fave shirt was the white away one actually, albeit the BCoS featured prominently.

[Stone Motif]

That said, I guess the Newportonians might be watching the County, judging by their attendance being over 6k thus far

Rev by the looks of it, you're in the same boat as us (Ospreys/Swansea) our attendance is close to half of the Swans. So much for Rugby being the National sport of Wales.

How many pro/semi pro football teams are there in west Wales compared to pro/semi pro rugby teams ? I bet there are about twice as many rugby teams. This is such a lame argument. If you added both Scarlets and Opsreys attendances then you will not be far off what Swansea City FC are getting week in week out. Plus add in all the people who watch Neath RFC, Bridgend RFC, Swansea RFC, Llanelli RFC, Llandovery RFC and so on.

It's the same when people compare Cardiff FC to any of the rugby teams in east Wales. The argument is such a non starter.

Here's another fact to prove Dowlais was talking bizzollocks here. A Swans season ticket costs over 400 bucks. A Premium ticket to the Other True Region costs just 200 knicker. Indicative of the demand for/value placed on said tickets by the local demographic, eh?

[Guest]

Ive probably missed the point of the football/rugby debate slightly here, so apologies if so, but I've always maintained that football and rugby fans are very distinct groups. I've got a lot of mates that are football fans and they wouldn't dream of watching a game of rugby live (might poke their noses in to watch a 6N game). And vice versa for my rugby fan mates - we watch a bit of Wales football internationals now they're doing better (glory supporting at its best, riding the wave and all that) but none of us has any interest in watching club football. So when I hear about competition, about rugby fans switching to football, about low regional attendances being due to premiership football, I just can't see it. It's a very small number of people, in my opinion, that switch between the two. Certainly not in the thousands. But just my opinion of course.

[Cardiff Dave]

Ive probably missed the point of the football/rugby debate slightly here, so apologies if so, but I've always maintained that football and rugby fans are very distinct groups. I've got a lot of mates that are football fans and they wouldn't dream of watching a game of rugby live (might poke their noses in to watch a 6N game). And vice versa for my rugby fan mates - we watch a bit of Wales football internationals now they're doing better (glory supporting at its best, riding the wave and all that) but none of us has any interest in watching club football. So when I hear about competition, about rugby fans switching to football, about low regional attendances being due to premiership football, I just can't see it. It's a very small number of people, in my opinion, that switch between the two.  Certainly not in the thousands. But just my opinion of course.

A lot of that going about in Welsh rugby Griff. Wanna be careful. Contagious. Fatal even.

[Stone Motif]

http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/News/Article/49169

So assuming Gavlar and Zane Kirchner replace Prydie and The Greatest Back to Come Out of Kingsley's Scrotum Since the Greatest Fly Half to Come out of the Gwent Valleys Since Dai Watkins (whose failure to 'stand on his own two feet' somewhere elsewhere is incidentally conspicuous by its absence from this list), sounds like we could be in the front and second row market shortly. Hopefully the deals are already set up pending the yes vote as there will be sod all about now if we start looking. They've moved quick to say who is on their way which is positive.

[GavinDragon]

So, WRU want to bring in Welsh talent. Below is a list of Welsh players in France and England. There aren't a great deal of front 5 forwards in this list.

Luke Charteris
Taulupe Faletau
Shaun Knight
Aled Brew
Darren Allison - scrum half
Josh Lewis - Fly half
Rhys Priestland
Harry Davies - Wing (Bath)

Ryan Bevington
Dan Thomas - Flanker
Rhodri Williams - Scrum Half
Callum Sheedy - outside half
Ryan Edwards - wing
Jordan Williams - full back
Jordan Liney - hooker
Nick Freeman - hooker (Bristol)

Tomas Francis
Phil Dollman
Sean Lonsdale - Lock (Exeter)

Richard Hibbard
Ross Moriarty
Dan Thomas - flanker
Matt Protheroe - full back (Gloucester)

Owen Evans
Adam Jones
Luc Jones
Jamie Roberts (Harlequins)

Luke Hamilton - No8
Owen Williams
Jack Roberts - centre (Leicester)

George North (Northampton Saints)

Eifion Roberts-Lewis - Prop
Jonathan Mills - Lock
Lou Reed (Sale)

Andy Fenby (Saracens)

Thomas Young (Wasps)

Sam Lewis
Josh Adams - wing (Worcester)

Ben Broster (Bayonne)

Aaron Jarvis (Clermont)

Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon)

Dan George - Hooker (Bedford)

Will Griff John - Prop
Jarad Williams - No8 (Doncaster)

Rhys Lawrence - Hooker
Llewellyn Jones - Lock
Carwyn Jones - Lock
Josh Davies - scrum half
Alex Walker
Will Harries (Ealing)

Kieran Hardy - scrum half
Lewis Robling (Jersey)

Rory Bartle - Flanker
Matt Marley - Flanker
Jason Harries - Outside Centre (London Scottish)

Joe Rees - Prop
Will Owen - Centre
Will Thomas - full back (Rotherham)

[Stone Motif]

So, WRU want to bring in Welsh talent. Below is a list of Welsh players in France and England. There aren't a great deal of front 5 forwards in this list.

Luke Charteris
Taulupe Faletau
Shaun Knight
Aled Brew
Darren Allison - scrum half
Josh Lewis - Fly half
Rhys Priestland
Harry Davies - Wing (Bath)

Ryan Bevington
Dan Thomas - Flanker
Rhodri Williams - Scrum Half
Callum Sheedy - outside half
Ryan Edwards - wing
Jordan Williams - full back
Jordan Liney - hooker
Nick Freeman - hooker (Bristol)

Tomas Francis
Phil Dollman
Sean Lonsdale - Lock (Exeter)

Richard Hibbard
Ross Moriarty
Dan Thomas - flanker
Matt Protheroe - full back (Gloucester)

Owen Evans
Adam Jones
Luc Jones
Jamie Roberts (Harlequins)

Luke Hamilton - No8
Owen Williams
Jack Roberts - centre (Leicester)

George North (Northampton Saints)

Eifion Roberts-Lewis - Prop
Jonathan Mills - Lock
Lou Reed (Sale)

Andy Fenby (Saracens)

Thomas Young (Wasps)

Sam Lewis
Josh Adams - wing (Worcester)

Ben Broster (Bayonne)

Aaron Jarvis (Clermont)

Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon)

Dan George - Hooker (Bedford)

Will Griff John - Prop
Jarad Williams - No8 (Doncaster)

Rhys Lawrence - Hooker
Llewellyn Jones - Lock
Carwyn Jones - Lock
Josh Davies - scrum half
Alex Walker
Will Harries (Ealing)

Kieran Hardy - scrum half
Lewis Robling (Jersey)

Rory Bartle - Flanker
Matt Marley - Flanker
Jason Harries - Outside Centre (London Scottish)

Joe Rees - Prop
Will Owen - Centre
Will Thomas - full back (Roth

Come back Luc, all is forgiven

[mikey_dragon]

A fair few championship players on the list, and most of them are guff. Almost all of them on a fresh contract with their club too so I can't see anyone breaking the bank to bring them to RP; although I'm hoping to myself that's exactly what they do with Hibbard, Francis and Moriarty... Owen Evans and Jonny Evans (Scarlets) are also welcome back any time.

[Stone Motif]

A fair few championship players on the list, and most of them are guff. Almost all of them on a fresh contract with their club too so I can't see anyone breaking the bank to bring them to RP; although I'm hoping to myself that's exactly what they do with Hibbard, Francis and Moriarty... Owen Evans and Jonny Evans (Scarlets) are also welcome back any time.

Any legs to the Ruaruidh Jackson rumour?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It's underwhelming if it's true.

[Stone Motif]

It's underwhelming if it's true.

More underwhelming than TGFHTCOTGVSDW staying put to be part of the WRU Dragons revolution?

[mikey_dragon]

A fair few championship players on the list, and most of them are guff. Almost all of them on a fresh contract with their club too so I can't see anyone breaking the bank to bring them to RP; although I'm hoping to myself that's exactly what they do with Hibbard, Francis and Moriarty... Owen Evans and Jonny Evans (Scarlets) are also welcome back any time.

Any legs to the Ruaruidh Jackson rumour?

Legs yes, not a 100% sure though. It is pretty underwhelming as he's the type of player who needs to be in a strong team to flourish. Petrus Du Plessis is out of contract so why not, we can get a year or two out of him.

I made up the Etzebeth rumour btw.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It's underwhelming if it's true.

More underwhelming than TGFHTCOTGVSDW staying put to be part of the WRU Dragons revolution?

I just don't think that's where our problems lie.

I think Angus O'Brien is doing as good a job as can be expected behind a pack that can only hope for parity at the scrum.

I don't know what Jackson would add, in any case. If it's 'experience' then we already have Mcleod and now Henson.

[Stone Motif]

Fair point. Angus has done well and we can't evaluate any half back or back even behind that powder puff tight five. Are we too late in the off season to recruit where we need (1-5 & 8 unless that's where Ollie's playing next season and Robson Blake has been on the roids)? Probably not if we're after some of the jokers on Gavin's list.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Harris and Landman are Welsh-qualified now, aren't they? So that frees up two NWQ spots. A couple of Saffer / Georgian front-five players would do nicely, assuming they were good, of course.

[Stone Motif]

I think the pair of them have gone badly downhill this season.

[Stone Motif]

https://cf10rugbytrust.org/blog/what-does-the-future-hold

Typical sodding Cardiff. Anything you can feck up, we can feck up better

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I think the pair of them have gone badly downhill this season.

Harris never really added to the scrum anyway. I've heard a few times that if Lloyd Fairbrother could offer more in the loose, he'd be starting.

Landman, I don't know whether it was the whole contract renewal that was responsible for his form. He gave away the stupidest penalty in the meltdown against Edinburgh. Hopefully he'll be on song again next season.

[Stone Motif]

He does that. Just as the hot streak of Lewis Evans brain farts has dried up, Landman has really stepped up to the plate in recent seasons.

[GavinDragon]

According to KJ at the meeting before the vote, they are looking for a new club for Dorian.

I agree that Brok seems to have gone downhill, and I actually think Screech and Hill are doing OK atm.

I also agree that looking at the exiles, we need a couple of gnarly NWQs for two of three seasons. Coming through the ranks we have Max Williams, but it remains to be seen if he is going to have the bulk and height to make it at top level in the second row.

[Stone Motif]

According to KJ at the meeting before the vote, they are looking for a new club for Dorian.

I agree that Brok seems to have gone downhill, and I actually think Screech and Hill are doing OK atm.

I also agree that looking at the exiles, we need a couple of gnarly NWQs for two of three seasons. Coming through the ranks we have Max Williams, but it remains to be seen if he is going to have the bulk and height to make it at top level in the second row.

We need players in their prime, no more has been or maybes, WRU.

[Cardiff Dave]

https://cf10rugbytrust.org/blog/what-does-the-future-hold

Typical sodding Cardiff. Anything you can feck up, we can feck up better

Oh dear.

[RiscaGame]

According to KJ at the meeting before the vote, they are looking for a new club for Dorian.

I agree that Brok seems to have gone downhill, and I actually think Screech and Hill are doing OK atm.

I also agree that looking at the exiles, we need a couple of gnarly NWQs for two of three seasons. Coming through the ranks we have Max Williams, but it remains to be seen if he is going to have the bulk and height to make it at top level in the second row.

I don't actually mind Screech or Hill, but I will question why our great leader kept playing somebody he wanted rid of in the engine room before using Screech again.

[Stone Motif]

What happened to Joe Davies? He looked like a god damned Uruk-Hai in the making, another player of promise to fall away because of the lack of quality in the squad/coaching I guess

[GavinDragon]

Prominent for Bedwas in what has been a good season for them. Not sure if he has the mobility or brain for pro rugby. Saying that, still young and at 6'6 certainly has bulk

[munkian]

The recently confirmed take-over of the Dragons region by the Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) has meant that there has been a delay on getting Membership packs sent out in the post.
http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/News/Article/49235

We want to make sure we are putting together a compelling Membership offering for the 2017/18 season. Existing Dragons Season Members will receive a letter in the post this week, with Membership packs to follow.

All Supporters wishing to receive Membership updates via email can register details below.

[PhilBB]

How can you be an "existing Dragons Season Member" when this is now a new team, a new name, a new company and a new owner?

[Guest]

How can you be an "existing Dragons Season Member" when this is now a new team, a new name, a new company and a new owner?

They're just trying to make the transition as smooth as possible for the fans. So that they don't p*ss off the few fans that will stick with it and keep attending. You know how fickle us Welsh rugby fans are: "Right that's it, they haven't automatically renewed my season ticket so I'll never set foot in that place again!" They don't need to give the fans another excuse not to go.

[Stone Motif]

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/15303776.Beard_on_Wales_radar_after_super_first_season_at_Dragons___boss_Jones/

In other words, Kingsley is taking the failure of top English and French clubs to snap up his other boy hard, and is hitting the crack pipe early doors

[PhilBB]

How can you be an "existing Dragons Season Member" when this is now a new team, a new name, a new company and a new owner?

They're just trying to make the transition as smooth as possible for the fans.  So that they don't p*ss off the few fans that will stick with it and keep attending.  You know how fickle us Welsh rugby fans are: "Right that's it, they haven't automatically renewed my season ticket so I'll never set foot in that place again!"  They don't need to give the fans another excuse not to go.

Of course, an honest organisation would have launched it as a new entity built from the last one.

But this is the WRU that is now in charge.

[Guest]

How can you be an "existing Dragons Season Member" when this is now a new team, a new name, a new company and a new owner?

They're just trying to make the transition as smooth as possible for the fans.  So that they don't p*ss off the few fans that will stick with it and keep attending.  You know how fickle us Welsh rugby fans are: "Right that's it, they haven't automatically renewed my season ticket so I'll never set foot in that place again!"  They don't need to give the fans another excuse not to go.

Of course, an honest organisation would have launched it as a new entity built from the last one.

But this is the WRU that is now in charge.

True. I'll wait to see their approach. If it fails they'll (WRU) have no-one else to blame this time. This is their 'baby' now. If they want it to work they can't be half-hearted and just convince a few journeymen welsh exiles back over the border. It's got to a big investment into players, coaching, ethos, facilities, infrastructure, etc. Otherwise it'll just be exactly the same as now just with a few new playing faces who are no better, and coached no better, and playing in exactly the same facilities, as the current lot. And that equals bottom of the league and not a nice place to be. But we all know this. It's obvious. It just begs the question why do the WRU want to do it? Perhaps being a bit naiive here, but if they're not really that interested in genuinely turning things around then I don't think they would have bothered at all. Therefore, I'll wait to see what happens and will remain (perhaps naively) optimistic.

[PhilBB]

The WRU can NOT "invest big" as they are tied to the terms of the RSA which note they cannot favour one team over another.

The WRU bought a £6m+ asset for £2.9m.

[mikey_dragon]

The WRU can NOT "invest big" as they are tied to the terms of the RSA which note they cannot favour one team over another.

The WRU bought a £6m+ asset for £2.9m.

Do those terms cover what is/will be a WRU-wholly owned entity?

[PhilBB]

The WRU can NOT "invest big" as they are tied to the terms of the RSA which note they cannot favour one team over another.

The WRU bought a £6m+ asset for £2.9m.

Do those terms cover what is/will be a WRU-wholly owned entity?

Yes. Martyn Phillips confirmed this at one of the open meetings.

[mikey_dragon]

The WRU can NOT "invest big" as they are tied to the terms of the RSA which note they cannot favour one team over another.

The WRU bought a £6m+ asset for £2.9m.

Do those terms cover what is/will be a WRU-wholly owned entity?

Yes. Martyn Phillips confirmed this at one of the open meetings.

Well that's not what Martyn said after I just text him. His exact reply was, and I quote:

"Nah fam never said that."

[Stone Motif]

The WRU can NOT "invest big" as they are tied to the terms of the RSA which note they cannot favour one team over another.

The WRU bought a £6m+ asset for £2.9m.

Bringing us up to minimum spend would be a big investment.

Dint Phillips also imply he had the blessing of the others to try and drag us (pun intended) up by the scruff of our "Kingdom of Gwent" collars? We all know what PRW's teeth are like on terms of challenging the guv'nors

[Cardiff Dave]

What happened to those investors waiting in the wings?

[PhilBB]

The WRU can NOT "invest big" as they are tied to the terms of the RSA which note they cannot favour one team over another.

The WRU bought a £6m+ asset for £2.9m.

Bringing us up to minimum spend would be a big investment.

Dint Phillips also imply he had the blessing of the others to try and drag us (pun intended) up by the scruff of our "Kingdom of Gwent" collars? We all know what PRW's teeth are like on terms of challenging the guv'nors

There's so much BS about this.

The last Dragons Rugby accounts, the company that employed the players for the NGD, show a "Cost of Sales" of over £5m. The idea that the playing budget was just half that is a difficult one to square off.

That noted, by the time you add in Henson, Kirchner and maybe one or two others, even if the claimed £2.9m was the spend then the salary floor of £3.5m will be hit.

The other three are adamant that they will stick to the agreement, hence Phillips giving no promises of anything to the "Dragons".

[Guest]

Wasn't some of the Dragons' budget being used to fund Newport RFC and associated costs (players, coaches, marketing, etc.), and therefore wasn't all being spent on the Dragons hence the under spend? Part of the rationale for the takeover was to make the two completely separate to avoid this.

[PhilBB]

Wasn't some of the Dragons' budget being used to fund Newport RFC and associated costs (players, coaches, marketing, etc.), and therefore wasn't all being spent on the Dragons hence the under spend?  Part of the rationale for the takeover was to make the two completely separate to avoid this.  

No, as Newport RFC costs were shown outside of Dragons Rugby ltd.

Furthermore, the 'business plan' (that would have shamed a pre-GCSE student) put forward by Davies at one of the meetings showed a Newport RFC ongoing cost of just shy of £300,000. They receive just shy of £100,000 towards that via the WRU.

Therefore, even if Dragons Rugby were meeting all of those costs, that £5m "cost of sales" could only be diminished by £300k.

Alternatively, Stuart Davies may just not have a blind clue as to what he's doing. You may believe that to be the case by the deliberate fudging of the value of the asset - telling shareholders it was worthless having told the auditors it was worth £6m just a few weeks before - and countless other examples of incompetence.

[munkian]

Cardiff Blues will still be getting more spending power than us regardless - a couple of million a year more us isn't it ?

[PhilBB]

Cardiff Blues will still be getting more spending power than us regardless - a couple of million a year more us isn't it ?

What has led you to that conclusion?

[munkian]

Cardiff Blues will still be getting more spending power than us regardless - a couple of million a year more us isn't it ?

What has led you to that conclusion?

A Mr Simon Thomas

[Luckless Pedestrian]

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/dragons/15336663.Jones_confident_Dragons_won_t_be_caught_cold_in_Russian_repeat/#comments-anchor

Looks like Kingsley's staying on then.

[mikey_dragon]

A winnable group but I can't see us winning a single game with this coaching team, plus we haven't had enough personnel changes.

[RiscaGame]

We will beat ensei at home. Depends on how seriously the other two take it. I think I might look at a trip this season though. Russia does appeal somewhat, though I could blag the missus on a trip to a wine region or the site of geordie shore

[Cardiff Dave]

and then there were 2...eventually.
Gonna be WRU Region East and WRU Region West isn't it? One in Cardiff and the other in Swansea?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40219112

[Guest]

and then there were 2...eventually.
Gonna be WRU Region East and WRU Region West isn't it? One in Cardiff and the other in Swansea?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40219112

RGC 1404 - West Wales

[Cardiff Dave]

and then there were 2...eventually.
Gonna be WRU Region East and WRU Region West isn't it? One in Cardiff and the other in Swansea?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40219112

RGC 1404 - West Wales

Part of the Scarlets region at present aren't they? Or were like the rest of North Wales.
You gotta laugh though.

[Guest]

and then there were 2...eventually.
Gonna be WRU Region East and WRU Region West isn't it? One in Cardiff and the other in Swansea?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40219112

RGC 1404 - West Wales

Part of the Scarlets region at present aren't they? Or were like the rest of North Wales.
You gotta laugh though.

They make a big song and dance about developing rugby in North Wales (I'm all for that though, BTW), about showing a commitment to that part of Wales, and then divide everything into East and West!

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