Lions by Country

here's some options at what the split could be assuming gatland picks on form

England - 16
Ireland - 9
Scotland - 7
Wales - 5

or

England - 15
Ireland - 9
Scotland - 7
Wales - 6

or

England - 14
Ireland - 10
Scotland - 7
Wales - 6

my personal guess it will be:-

England - 16
Ireland - 11
Wales - 9
Scotland - 3

discuss!

Stephen Jones is reported as saying that England will supply as many as 25 players to the Lions travelling squad.

aucklandlaurie wrote:Stephen Jones is reported as saying that England will supply as many as 25 players to the Lions travelling squad.

They will provide the bulk of the squad, but Jones has clearly been in the boozer again.

If i was picking Lions players for the Wales v France game.

It would be   NORTH and Scot Williams and No one else.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Stephen Jones is reported as saying that England will supply as many as 25 players to the Lions travelling squad.

They will provide the bulk of the squad, but Jones has clearly been in the boozer again.

Jones has fallen on his head a few too many times, methinks.

My guess is england will have about 17 or 18 players. Wales and Ireland about the same and Scotland less than they deserve.

doctor_grey wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Stephen Jones is reported as saying that England will supply as many as 25 players to the Lions travelling squad.

They will provide the bulk of the squad, but Jones has clearly been in the boozer again.

Jones has fallen on his head a few too many times, methinks.  

Jones also has Rob Kearney as starting 15 for the Lions. Now I'm a died in the wool Leinster and Ireland fan and Rob shouldn't be near the Lions squad. He's a very good high fielder but just like Mike Brown he then runs directly into traffic, and defensively he's now suspect. Great servant for Leinster and Ireland, but arguably he's now not a definite starter for either now.

On a completely unrelated topic, can anybody say why Gatland is bringing Jenkins as a kicking coach. Is he going to be telling Sexton or Farrell on how they should adjust their technique -response from those two who have 90% records should be interesting.

I wouldnt select Kearney either but he has been one of the best fullbacks in the six nations this year and had a strong November.

brennomac wrote:

On a completely unrelated topic, can anybody say why Gatland is bringing Jenkins as a kicking coach.  Is he going to be telling Sexton or Farrell on how they should adjust their technique -response from those two who have 90% records should be interesting.

Jenkins: "Why have 90% of something when you can have 100%?"

Anyway, it'll just be small things, like telling Farrell to stop with the evil stare stuff.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wouldnt select Kearney either but he has been one of the best fullbacks in the six nations this year and had a strong November.

The All Blacks don't like seeing him coming, that's for sure.

brennomac wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Stephen Jones is reported as saying that England will supply as many as 25 players to the Lions travelling squad.

They will provide the bulk of the squad, but Jones has clearly been in the boozer again.

Jones has fallen on his head a few too many times, methinks.  

Jones also has Rob Kearney as starting 15 for the Lions.  Now I'm a died in the wool Leinster and Ireland fan and Rob shouldn't be near the Lions squad.  He's a very good high fielder but just like Mike Brown he then runs directly into traffic, and defensively he's now suspect.  Great servant for Leinster and Ireland, but arguably he's now not a definite starter for either now.

The Irish Independent has Kearney touring over Hogg because Kearney apparently is better under the high ball.

That's the sort of thinking that wins Lions tours.

George Carlin wrote:

brennomac wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Stephen Jones is reported as saying that England will supply as many as 25 players to the Lions travelling squad.

They will provide the bulk of the squad, but Jones has clearly been in the boozer again.

Jones has fallen on his head a few too many times, methinks.  

Jones also has Rob Kearney as starting 15 for the Lions.  Now I'm a died in the wool Leinster and Ireland fan and Rob shouldn't be near the Lions squad.  He's a very good high fielder but just like Mike Brown he then runs directly into traffic, and defensively he's now suspect.  Great servant for Leinster and Ireland, but arguably he's now not a definite starter for either now.

The Irish Independent has Kearney touring over Hogg because Kearney apparently is better under the high ball.

That's the sort of thinking that wins Lions tours.

Are we going out there to play gaelic football? Kearney is a good player but the most generous way to describe his attacking play would be blunt.

I hear new Zealand kick a lot of ball, more than any other team apparently. So I want a full back who is good under the high ball, has a howitzer of a boot to punt it back and more importantly, look up, and if there is a gap or the game has broken up a bit, will run the ball back hard. Hogg ticks those boxes. He was also instrumental in Scotland's defence against Italy making 2 try saving tackles.

Kearney touring over Hogg is just utter delusion. I think you'll struggle to find a sensible Irish poster on here who would agree with that sentiment. Payne will have no doubt turned a few heads with that performance yesterday though. He looked great.

Full back is tough as a number of players can deputise in other roles.

Payne is best at 15 but can play centre at test level.
Liam Williams can play at 15 or on either wing.
Sean Maitland can play wing but prefers full back.
Elliot Daly can play just about anywhere and has a lot of experience at full back.

Then you have guys like Mike Brown that are specialists but very good ones.

Tough.

George Carlin wrote:
The Irish Independent has Kearney touring over Hogg because Kearney apparently is better under the high ball.

That's the sort of thinking that wins Lions tours.

Luckily enough, the Irish Independent don't pick the teams, George. Who said that? Anyway, 'in place of' would be a joke but 'along with' wouldn't be, Kearney is past his best but on any given day, he can have a stormer still. Not nearly as eye-catchingly fleet footed as Hogg of course but New Zealand knows his name.

George Carlin wrote:

brennomac wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Stephen Jones is reported as saying that England will supply as many as 25 players to the Lions travelling squad.

They will provide the bulk of the squad, but Jones has clearly been in the boozer again.

Jones has fallen on his head a few too many times, methinks.  

Jones also has Rob Kearney as starting 15 for the Lions.  Now I'm a died in the wool Leinster and Ireland fan and Rob shouldn't be near the Lions squad.  He's a very good high fielder but just like Mike Brown he then runs directly into traffic, and defensively he's now suspect.  Great servant for Leinster and Ireland, but arguably he's now not a definite starter for either now.

The Irish Independent has Kearney touring over Hogg because Kearney apparently is better under the high ball.

That's the sort of thinking that wins Lions tours.

Personally my first choice would be Hogg and while I wouldnt pick Kearney because he isnt the best attacking threat he has been in a rich vein of form in the last 6 months and if he does get selected it will be a form pick. He has also been superb in his last three tests v NZ outperforming his opposite number on at least a couple of occasions.

George Carlin wrote:Full back is tough as a number of players can deputise in other roles.

Payne is best at 15 but can play centre at test level.
Liam Williams can play at 15 or on either wing.
Sean Maitland can play wing but prefers full back.
Elliot Daly can play just about anywhere and has a lot of experience at full back.

Then you have guys like Mike Brown that are specialists but very good ones.

Tough.

Hogg and Spagetti legs would be my choices for full back,

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

brennomac wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Stephen Jones is reported as saying that England will supply as many as 25 players to the Lions travelling squad.

They will provide the bulk of the squad, but Jones has clearly been in the boozer again.

Jones has fallen on his head a few too many times, methinks.  

Jones also has Rob Kearney as starting 15 for the Lions.  Now I'm a died in the wool Leinster and Ireland fan and Rob shouldn't be near the Lions squad.  He's a very good high fielder but just like Mike Brown he then runs directly into traffic, and defensively he's now suspect.  Great servant for Leinster and Ireland, but arguably he's now not a definite starter for either now.

The Irish Independent has Kearney touring over Hogg because Kearney apparently is better under the high ball.

That's the sort of thinking that wins Lions tours.

Are we going out there to play gaelic football? Kearney is a good player but the most generous way to describe his attacking play would be blunt.

I hear new Zealand kick a lot of ball, more than any other team apparently. So I want a full back who is good under the high ball, has a howitzer of a boot to punt it back and more importantly, look up, and if there is a gap or the game has broken up a bit, will run the ball back hard. Hogg ticks those boxes. He was also instrumental in Scotland's defence against Italy making 2 try saving tackles.

Kearney touring over Hogg is just utter delusion. I think you'll struggle to find a sensible Irish poster on here who would agree with that sentiment. Payne will have no doubt turned a few heads with that performance yesterday though. He looked great.

He did beat 8 defenders v Scotland. I think that is more than any other FB in a six nations game this year albeit he is no Hogg.

SecretFly wrote:

George Carlin wrote:
The Irish Independent has Kearney touring over Hogg because Kearney apparently is better under the high ball.

That's the sort of thinking that wins Lions tours.

Luckily enough, the Irish Independent don't pick the teams, George.  Who said that?  Anyway, 'in place of' would be a joke but 'along with' wouldn't be,  Kearney is past his best but on any given day, he can have a stormer still.  Not nearly as eye-catchingly fleet footed as Hogg of course but New Zealand knows his name.

Yerman Brendan Fanning, Fly:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/lions-tour/irish-lions-will-make-the-difference-our-experts-pick-their-starting-teams-35544322.html

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

brennomac wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Stephen Jones is reported as saying that England will supply as many as 25 players to the Lions travelling squad.

They will provide the bulk of the squad, but Jones has clearly been in the boozer again.

Jones has fallen on his head a few too many times, methinks.  

Jones also has Rob Kearney as starting 15 for the Lions.  Now I'm a died in the wool Leinster and Ireland fan and Rob shouldn't be near the Lions squad.  He's a very good high fielder but just like Mike Brown he then runs directly into traffic, and defensively he's now suspect.  Great servant for Leinster and Ireland, but arguably he's now not a definite starter for either now.

The Irish Independent has Kearney touring over Hogg because Kearney apparently is better under the high ball.

That's the sort of thinking that wins Lions tours.

Are we going out there to play gaelic football? Kearney is a good player but the most generous way to describe his attacking play would be blunt.

I hear new Zealand kick a lot of ball, more than any other team apparently. So I want a full back who is good under the high ball, has a howitzer of a boot to punt it back and more importantly, look up, and if there is a gap or the game has broken up a bit, will run the ball back hard. Hogg ticks those boxes. He was also instrumental in Scotland's defence against Italy making 2 try saving tackles.

Kearney touring over Hogg is just utter delusion. I think you'll struggle to find a sensible Irish poster on here who would agree with that sentiment. Payne will have no doubt turned a few heads with that performance yesterday though. He looked great.

He did beat 8 defenders v Scotland. I think that is more than any other FB in a six nations game this year albeit he is no Hogg.

I'm not saying he is a bad player Guns, but I think Payne is better, and he demonstrated real attacking threat yesterday.

One player whose stock has plummeted is Leigh Halfpenny. I'd say in the last lions tour he was definitely in conversation to be the best fullback in the world. What has happened to him at Toulon? He just looks like he has lost his edge. Making errors, poor under the high ball, bad decision making poor kicking from hand, his kicking from the tee still seems good but he had a dreadful tournament.

George Carlin wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

George Carlin wrote:
The Irish Independent has Kearney touring over Hogg because Kearney apparently is better under the high ball.

That's the sort of thinking that wins Lions tours.

Luckily enough, the Irish Independent don't pick the teams, George.  Who said that?  Anyway, 'in place of' would be a joke but 'along with' wouldn't be,  Kearney is past his best but on any given day, he can have a stormer still.  Not nearly as eye-catchingly fleet footed as Hogg of course but New Zealand knows his name.

Yerman Brendan Fanning, Fly:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/lions-tour/irish-lions-will-make-the-difference-our-experts-pick-their-starting-teams-35544322.html

George.... you have your glasses on? Bit of a 'fake news' slant on that article?

All four guys (Fanning, Glennon, Francis and Jackman) have Hogg at 15.

"Kearney clearly is not in the same class as Stuart Hogg as an attacker but his aerial ability is unmatched around the home countries. It's worth remembering that this is a winter gig in New Zealand - the weather will frequently be horrible. If Kearney is a goner then he might have to run with Hogg, a lethal counter-attacker but hardly Biggles in the air. ...... A back three of Hogg, Liam Williams and George North would fit the bill."

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

One player whose stock has plummeted is Leigh Halfpenny. I'd say in the last lions tour he was definitely in conversation to be the best fullback in the world. What has happened to him at Toulon? He just looks like he has lost his edge. Making errors, poor under the high ball, bad decision making poor kicking from hand, his kicking from the tee still seems good but he had a dreadful tournament.

Condition, condition, condition. That's the one thing you know Gatland will have a major focus on in the lead in. It's what he has always insisted on at Wales. Be the fittest you can be to sustain the game you need to play at the highest level through a tough series. So in actual fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Gatland took Halfpenny. He knows where Halfpenny can get to under his supervision. I think there'll still be a hefty contingent of Welsh players on the tour.

SecretFly wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

One player whose stock has plummeted is Leigh Halfpenny. I'd say in the last lions tour he was definitely in conversation to be the best fullback in the world. What has happened to him at Toulon? He just looks like he has lost his edge. Making errors, poor under the high ball, bad decision making poor kicking from hand, his kicking from the tee still seems good but he had a dreadful tournament.

Condition, condition, condition.  That's the one thing you know Gatland will have a major focus on in the lead in.  It's what he has always insisted on at Wales.  Be the fittest you can be to sustain the game you need to play at the highest level through a tough series.  So in actual fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Gatland took Halfpenny.  He knows where Halfpenny can get to under his supervision.  I think there'll still be a hefty contingent of Welsh players on the tour.

Yes you are right Fly, on the 2013 tour there were 7 back 3 players selected, with the added bonus of Hogg supposedly covering the 10 spot, on this Tour you have a multitude of players who can cover a number of positions. Hogg, Williams, Daly, Halfpenny, Nowell and Watson can cover wing, Payne could cover centre it is probably only North, Seymour and Maitland specialist wings, although I have a feeling one of those Scot boys can also play F/B.

IMO Halfpenny sealed his place yesterday when kicking twice over 50 metre kicks, his place improved when Farrell refused a kick of around 45 metres at the PS in our game a few weeks ago and Elliot Daly stepped up and missed.

I despise that logic Wayne, we wont beat NZ on the back of 50m penalties. Mind you Hogg nailed a long range penalty against Italy at the weekend.

If halfpenny is selected on the back of his kicking ability it is very negative pick.

If anything that would be more reason to select Daly than it is Halfpenny and to be honest I can't think of a better utility back to have on the bench.

Guscott just said he would have Sexton or Murray as Lions captain and the Lions will win the series. Interesting, for me it has to be AWJ.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If anything that would be more reason to select Daly than it is Halfpenny and to be honest I can't think of a better utility back to have on the bench.

How?, because Daly missed that kick and Halfpenny nailed 2 that's right two that were longer than the one Daly missed. Just for your information I would take the 2 of them on the tour.

wayne wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If anything that would be more reason to select Daly than it is Halfpenny and to be honest I can't think of a better utility back to have on the bench.

How?, because Daly missed that kick and Halfpenny nailed 2 that's right two that were longer than the one Daly missed. Just for your information I would take the 2 of them on the tour.

Daly didn't miss on distance so it's not really relevant, he's the bigger kicker and the form player at the moment. Halfpenny will probably tour but he shouldn't be anywhere near the matchday 23.

wayne wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If anything that would be more reason to select Daly than it is Halfpenny and to be honest I can't think of a better utility back to have on the bench.

How?, because Daly missed that kick and Halfpenny nailed 2 that's right two that were longer than the one Daly missed. Just for your information I would take the 2 of them on the tour.

Jesus, this has the makings of another Woodward Grand Tour given the number of players that are being earmarked for that plane!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I despise that logic Wayne, we wont beat NZ on the back of 50m penalties. Mind you Hogg nailed a long range penalty against Italy at the weekend.

If halfpenny is selected on the back of his kicking ability it is very negative pick.

You are being quite silly in that response RR, who out of those 2 has a record of consistently making those kicks, and if you think that is the only attribute that Leigh has in his armoury to play at the highest level, it just shows your lack of knowledge of our great game.

wayne wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I despise that logic Wayne, we wont beat NZ on the back of 50m penalties. Mind you Hogg nailed a long range penalty against Italy at the weekend.

If halfpenny is selected on the back of his kicking ability it is very negative pick.

You are being quite silly in that response RR, who out of those 2 has a record of consistently making those kicks, and if you think that is the only attribute that Leigh has in his armoury  to play at the highest level, it just shows your lack of knowledge of our great game.

It's the only attribute he has at the moment. He has done nothing this 6n accept nail penalties. Apart from that all he's done is drop high balls and make bad decisions. He has had a rotten tournament!

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

wayne wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If anything that would be more reason to select Daly than it is Halfpenny and to be honest I can't think of a better utility back to have on the bench.

How?, because Daly missed that kick and Halfpenny nailed 2 that's right two that were longer than the one Daly missed. Just for your information I would take the 2 of them on the tour.

Daly didn't miss on distance so it's not really relevant, he's the bigger kicker and the form player at the moment. Halfpenny will probably tour but he shouldn't be anywhere near the matchday 23.

Tell me what is the point of taking a kicker that misses at 45 or 75 metres when you have somebody that regularly kicks them at 55 metres?
As you said Halfpenny will be on the plane as will probably Daly.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

wayne wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I despise that logic Wayne, we wont beat NZ on the back of 50m penalties. Mind you Hogg nailed a long range penalty against Italy at the weekend.

If halfpenny is selected on the back of his kicking ability it is very negative pick.

You are being quite silly in that response RR, who out of those 2 has a record of consistently making those kicks, and if you think that is the only attribute that Leigh has in his armoury  to play at the highest level, it just shows your lack of knowledge of our great game.

It's the only attribute he has at the moment. He has done nothing this 6n accept nail penalties. Apart from that all he's done is drop high balls and make bad decisions. He has had a rotten tournament!

Garbage.

wayne wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

wayne wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I despise that logic Wayne, we wont beat NZ on the back of 50m penalties. Mind you Hogg nailed a long range penalty against Italy at the weekend.

If halfpenny is selected on the back of his kicking ability it is very negative pick.

You are being quite silly in that response RR, who out of those 2 has a record of consistently making those kicks, and if you think that is the only attribute that Leigh has in his armoury  to play at the highest level, it just shows your lack of knowledge of our great game.

It's the only attribute he has at the moment. He has done nothing this 6n accept nail penalties. Apart from that all he's done is drop high balls and make bad decisions. He has had a rotten tournament!

Garbage.

Ok so you think he played well? I'd like to know by what measure he had a good tournament.

wayne wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

wayne wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If anything that would be more reason to select Daly than it is Halfpenny and to be honest I can't think of a better utility back to have on the bench.

How?, because Daly missed that kick and Halfpenny nailed 2 that's right two that were longer than the one Daly missed. Just for your information I would take the 2 of them on the tour.

Daly didn't miss on distance so it's not really relevant, he's the bigger kicker and the form player at the moment. Halfpenny will probably tour but he shouldn't be anywhere near the matchday 23.

Tell me what is the point of taking a kicker that misses at 45 or 75 metres when you have somebody that regularly kicks them at 55 metres?
As you said Halfpenny will be on the plane as will probably Daly.

One of them is in good form and can nail long penalties whilst the other is in poor form, it should be seen as a bonus not a deciding factor.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

wayne wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I despise that logic Wayne, we wont beat NZ on the back of 50m penalties. Mind you Hogg nailed a long range penalty against Italy at the weekend.

If halfpenny is selected on the back of his kicking ability it is very negative pick.

You are being quite silly in that response RR, who out of those 2 has a record of consistently making those kicks, and if you think that is the only attribute that Leigh has in his armoury  to play at the highest level, it just shows your lack of knowledge of our great game.

It's the only attribute he has at the moment. He has done nothing this 6n accept nail penalties. Apart from that all he's done is drop high balls and make bad decisions. He has had a rotten tournament!

But the Lions tour doesn't happen straight after the Six Nations. It happens at the other end of the year when some teams/players go off-form and others come on. Like I said earlier, Gatland will know the kinds of improvements he can add to players. He's had plenty of experience doing it with Welsh players over his ten years with them. When everyone often thought they'd gone off, they'd often punch back to shock everyone.
So if Gatland has history with Halfpenny and if he trusts that boot, and if he knows how he can get Halfpenny back more to being a Welsh player than a Toulon one (given time with him in camp)..then he won't give it a second thought bringing him.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

wayne wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

wayne wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If anything that would be more reason to select Daly than it is Halfpenny and to be honest I can't think of a better utility back to have on the bench.

How?, because Daly missed that kick and Halfpenny nailed 2 that's right two that were longer than the one Daly missed. Just for your information I would take the 2 of them on the tour.

Daly didn't miss on distance so it's not really relevant, he's the bigger kicker and the form player at the moment. Halfpenny will probably tour but he shouldn't be anywhere near the matchday 23.

Tell me what is the point of taking a kicker that misses at 45 or 75 metres when you have somebody that regularly kicks them at 55 metres?
As you said Halfpenny will be on the plane as will probably Daly.

One of them is in good form and can nail long penalties whilst the other is in poor form, it should be seen as a bonus not a deciding factor.

The problem is that Daly can nail long penalties BUT DIDN'T, whereas Leigh DID

The best way to decide these things is by using such a small sample.

Why is that a problem? Personally I'd see them battling it out for the bench spot. I think Daly s cover of outside centre as well swings it for me.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why is that a problem? Personally I'd see them battling it out for the bench spot. I think Daly s cover of outside centre as well swings it for me.

If that is directed at me 7&1/2 I have no problem with Daly being on the plane, as I said in my OP, yesterday IMO Leigh nailed his place as well, HH and RR has taken it that it is some sort of slight on their players when it patently wasn't.

For me the 7 back 3 players that I would take would be Hogg, Halfpenny, Williams, North, Daly, Watson and Seymour, 5 of those could cover other positions, could even be 6.

wayne wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why is that a problem? Personally I'd see them battling it out for the bench spot. I think Daly s cover of outside centre as well swings it for me.

If that is directed at me 7&1/2 I have no problem with Daly being on the plane, as I said in my OP, yesterday IMO Leigh nailed his place as well, HH and RR has taken it that it is some sort of slight on their players when it patently wasn't.

For me the 7 back 3 players that I would take would be Hogg, Halfpenny, Williams, North, Daly, Watson and Seymour, 5 of those could cover other positions, could even be 6.  

I'm not taking it as a slight, I just want more from a Lions player other than "he can kick his goals". Otherwise a case could be made for Laidlaw, although his inclusion ahead of Webb, Davis or Murray would be lunacy.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

wayne wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why is that a problem? Personally I'd see them battling it out for the bench spot. I think Daly s cover of outside centre as well swings it for me.

If that is directed at me 7&1/2 I have no problem with Daly being on the plane, as I said in my OP, yesterday IMO Leigh nailed his place as well, HH and RR has taken it that it is some sort of slight on their players when it patently wasn't.

For me the 7 back 3 players that I would take would be Hogg, Halfpenny, Williams, North, Daly, Watson and Seymour, 5 of those could cover other positions, could even be 6.  

I'm not taking it as a slight, I just want more from a Lions player other than "he can kick his goals". Otherwise a case could be made for Laidlaw, although his inclusion ahead of Webb, Davis or Murray would be lunacy.

NO, you couldn't make the slightest case for Laidlaw, because there would be kickers with a much bigger range than him, the same couldn't be said for Leigh, it was as ridiculous as the calls for Patterson in past tours.

Moot anyway. Halfpenny will go based on past rep.

wayne wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

wayne wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why is that a problem? Personally I'd see them battling it out for the bench spot. I think Daly s cover of outside centre as well swings it for me.

If that is directed at me 7&1/2 I have no problem with Daly being on the plane, as I said in my OP, yesterday IMO Leigh nailed his place as well, HH and RR has taken it that it is some sort of slight on their players when it patently wasn't.

For me the 7 back 3 players that I would take would be Hogg, Halfpenny, Williams, North, Daly, Watson and Seymour, 5 of those could cover other positions, could even be 6.  

I'm not taking it as a slight, I just want more from a Lions player other than "he can kick his goals". Otherwise a case could be made for Laidlaw, although his inclusion ahead of Webb, Davis or Murray would be lunacy.

NO, you couldn't make the slightest case for Laidlaw, because there would be kickers with a much bigger range than him, the same couldn't be said for Leigh, it was as ridiculous as the calls for Patterson in past tours.

Just to add if the Davis you mentioned is our Gareth Davies, I would select Laidlaw before him, but not Murray, Webb, Care or Youngs. There are better scrum halves at the Scarlets than Davies.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Moot anyway. Halfpenny will go based on past rep.

I dont think he will. It would be a cheap pick. He is not the player he was. 4 or 5 better options now.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Moot anyway. Halfpenny will go based on past rep.

If he was playing as he was at the beginning of the 6 Nations I don't think he would have been 7&1/2, he dropped a couple of balls when under no pressure and missed a couple of kicks.

wayne wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

wayne wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why is that a problem? Personally I'd see them battling it out for the bench spot. I think Daly s cover of outside centre as well swings it for me.

If that is directed at me 7&1/2 I have no problem with Daly being on the plane, as I said in my OP, yesterday IMO Leigh nailed his place as well, HH and RR has taken it that it is some sort of slight on their players when it patently wasn't.

For me the 7 back 3 players that I would take would be Hogg, Halfpenny, Williams, North, Daly, Watson and Seymour, 5 of those could cover other positions, could even be 6.  

I'm not taking it as a slight, I just want more from a Lions player other than "he can kick his goals". Otherwise a case could be made for Laidlaw, although his inclusion ahead of Webb, Davis or Murray would be lunacy.

NO, you couldn't make the slightest case for Laidlaw, because there would be kickers with a much bigger range than him, the same couldn't be said for Leigh, it was as ridiculous as the calls for Patterson in past tours.

Patterson's best shot at a Lions tour was 2005, and TBH I'm glad he had nothing to do with it.

It's a common misconception that all Patterson did was kick. In truth he was such a complete rugby footballer he played in every position across the back line. In truth this ability to play anywhere damaged his career as he became a jack of all trades and master of none. But he did far more than just kick. He unfairly has a reputation of kicking and nothing else but he was a brilliant tackler and in his youth absolutely rapid.

Try saving tackle against England :
https://youtu.be/ZVxEivORLwc

Try against Wales
https://youtu.be/YeD4QN5pPT8

Try against Italy
https://youtu.be/tQ26OG0C040

I don't know if you'll watch this or not, but if you do hopefully I can persuade one person that Chris Patterson was so much more than the best place kicker in the world. He was a brilliant rugby player, who like James Hook was a victim of his own versatility.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

wayne wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

wayne wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why is that a problem? Personally I'd see them battling it out for the bench spot. I think Daly s cover of outside centre as well swings it for me.

If that is directed at me 7&1/2 I have no problem with Daly being on the plane, as I said in my OP, yesterday IMO Leigh nailed his place as well, HH and RR has taken it that it is some sort of slight on their players when it patently wasn't.

For me the 7 back 3 players that I would take would be Hogg, Halfpenny, Williams, North, Daly, Watson and Seymour, 5 of those could cover other positions, could even be 6.  

I'm not taking it as a slight, I just want more from a Lions player other than "he can kick his goals". Otherwise a case could be made for Laidlaw, although his inclusion ahead of Webb, Davis or Murray would be lunacy.

NO, you couldn't make the slightest case for Laidlaw, because there would be kickers with a much bigger range than him, the same couldn't be said for Leigh, it was as ridiculous as the calls for Patterson in past tours.

Patterson's best shot at a Lions tour was 2005, and TBH I'm glad he had nothing to do with it.

It's a common misconception that all Patterson did was kick. In truth he was such a complete rugby footballer he played in every position across the back line. In truth this ability to play anywhere damaged his career as he became a jack of all trades and master of none. But he did far more than just kick. He unfairly has a reputation of kicking and nothing else but he was a brilliant tackler and in his youth absolutely rapid.

Try saving tackle against England :
https://youtu.be/ZVxEivORLwc

Try against Wales
https://youtu.be/YeD4QN5pPT8

Try against Italy
https://youtu.be/tQ26OG0C040

I don't know if you'll watch this or not, but if you do hopefully I can persuade one person that Chris Patterson was so much more than the best place kicker in the world. He was a brilliant rugby player, who like James Hook was a victim of his own versatility.

I agree he was a lot more than a short range kicker, but there were better players at all his positions, and as for James Hook he left us (Ospreys) because he thought he was a 10. He was not, as both Perpignan and Gloucester found to their cost, at least he made a fair bit of money on his excursion, he's now back with us and will be an excellent back up for a number of positions and a good role model for a number of exciting youngsters coming through.

He was an all rounder alright

God, this takes me back. Memory lane, Paterson. Nice man.

alive555 wrote:here's some options at what the split could be assuming gatland picks on form

England - 16
Ireland - 9
Scotland - 7
Wales - 5

or

England - 15
Ireland - 9
Scotland - 7
Wales - 6

or

England - 14
Ireland - 10
Scotland - 7
Wales - 6

my personal guess it will be:-

England - 16
Ireland - 11
Wales - 9
Scotland - 3

discuss!

I'd expect the split to be more along the lines of;

England - 15
Ireland - 5
Scotland - 6
Wales - 11

Welsh players to be rested for the Test matches, Ireland and Scotland to provide most of the second-string starting lineups. England and Wales could pick up an extra spot each at the expense of the Scots, though to me that wouldn't be in line with form from the tournament.