F1 German GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

Ain't doing it no one reads it anyway

[Steffan]

No grid girls anymore then. Well that sucks

[Guest]

Yeah, not a fan of that decision, but that’s the world we live in now. Liberty have also confirmed that the European races and the Brazilian Grand Prix, are being pushed back by an hour and 10 minutes. So, that’s changing from 1pm, to race starts of 2:10.

Why?

To suit American audiences

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it springs to mind.

In other news, McLaren look like they’re going back to their historical papaya livery.

[GSC]

I don't really care about grid girls either way. The races mainly being predictable and lacking action are far bigger reasons to not ttune ime in

[Guest]

Haas VF-18

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Been looking forward to Paddy Lowe’s & Dirk de Beer (ex-Ferrari aero boss) first car, and here is the Williams FW41. Unsurprisingly, there’s elements of a Mercedes aero package in there, along with the Ferrari side-pods.

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[Guest]

Still to come

Red Bull - February 19
Renault  - February 20
Sauber   - February 20
Mercedes - February 22
Ferrari    - February 22
McLaren   - February 23
Toro Rosso -  February 26
Force India (name change pending) - TBC

Testing in Barcelona begins on February 26th-March 1st in Barcelona.

[Guest]

Oh hello!!

Red Bull 14 (shame it’s probably only a testing livery)

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[dyrewolfe]

I don't really care about grid girls either way. The races mainly being predictable and lacking action are far bigger reasons to not ttune ime in

True, but the reasoning behind it is all screwed up IMO. Apparently its sexist and demeaning and the girls shouldn't have to put up with guys ogling them...which is BS. Most of the time they wore pretty modest attire and I've never read or heard any reports of them being subject to inappropriate behaviour.

Also an idiotic decision to replace them with "Grid Kids". I don't see them having the capability to stand still for long periods of time (at least not without their phones). Will also require adult supervision so they don't get lost or wander off somewhere they shouldn't...

[dyrewolfe]

Oh hello!!

Red Bull 14 (shame it’s probably only a testing livery)

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Confirmed. It will be replaced by the race livery when they start testing in Barcelona.

Cars are looking pretty good so far...though I predict the RB could suffer overheating issues in the Middle & Far East with those sidepods.

[Guest]

Renault RS18

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[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Naturally a good looking car isn't necessarily a good at but the Renault is absolutely beautiful

[GSC]

Kinda preferred the livery of the last couple of years tbh

[Guest]

Mercedes W09



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[Guest]

Ferrari SF-71H

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[Guest]

McLaren (courtesy of some wind)

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[Fernando]

I feel every year we say this but the merc needs more blue on it. i do like the darker grey though.

Nice to see Ferrari just full red too

[Guest]

McLaren MCL33

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[GSC]

Now that's a good looking car. Much better than last year

[dyrewolfe]

Well Ferrari seem to have produced the best-looking car again. Red Bull the most interesting aero-wise...though Sauber & Mercedes also have some weird stuff going on. Difference being that the Sauber looks a lot better. Williams looks quite nice too.

Toro Rosso, Renault & McLaren look pretty ordinary...also wish McLaren had gone with a papaya halo to help it blend in. It sticks out a mile and looks decidedly incongruous in black. Also think they're the worst liveries those teams have had for a while.

I like the shade of yellow Renault have gone with, but don't like that they're mainly black on the sides...its just weird & confusing IMO.

Also have no problem with papaya...but those slabs of blue just look horrible. Should have used a fade, or just gone with tramlines or something a bit more subtle.

Still, these are all cosmetic gripes and I'm still waiting for the teams & FIA to acknowledge the elephant in the room...and reinstate ground-effect aero.

[GSC]

The man who spent his last days in power trying to kill the hybrid engines wants F1 to go full electric now.

Yawn.

[Guest]

Force India

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[Nathaniel Jacobs]

McLaren Renault already picked up their first crash. Alonso's lost his right rear wheel. Probably a loose wheel nut.

Elsewhere Red Bull are back with their usual livery, got to say I wanted them to keep the new livery.

[Guest]

Testing under way

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Red Bull in the hands of Daniel Ricciardo was quickest today, followed by Bottas, and then Raikkonen. Renault powered teams suffered no engine issues, and TR Honda were able to complete 93 laps, without issue. Going to need bulletproof reliability, given the reduction to three engines all season. McLaren lost three hours with Alonso’s tyre failure, but ended the day seventh fastest.

[dyrewolfe]

Force India

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Oops - forgot about Force India. They retain the award for worst livery on the grid...though the streaks of white have improved it somewhat. Still makes the car look like an ice cream dessert.

[dyrewolfe]

Testing under way

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Red Bull in the hands of Daniel Ricciardo was quickest today, followed by Bottas, and then Raikkonen. Renault powered teams suffered no engine issues, and TR Honda were able to complete 93 laps, without issue. Going to need bulletproof reliability, given the reduction to three engines all season. McLaren lost three hours with Alonso’s tyre failure, but ended the day seventh fastest.

Vandoorne posted the fastest time today...until Bottas topped it by 5/100ths or so. Would be encouraging if it weren't for the fact he was running super-softs while Mercedes were on mediums.

On a positive note, there have been no engine failures yet (touch wood, fingers crossed etc.) Cyril Abiteboul (Renault boss) has said they have focused on engine reliability to start with and will look to improve performance over the season.

Also genuinely happy Toro Rosso haven't had any engines go bang yet. Its no fun watching any team struggle like McLaren have lately. Christian Horner is keeping a close eye on them and will leave it as late as possible to decide whether RB use Honda engines next season, or stick with Renault.

[GSC]

Force India is my favorite livery. Other than McLaren and Toro Rosso it's a dull grid.

[Guest]

Martini will not extend its title sponsorship of Williams when it expires at the end of the season. Not surprised at all.

Ferrari fastest today with Vettel. While many teams have racked up a century of laps, McLaren are again way down on mileage. Wheel nut failure yesterday, and a failed exhaust clip today. Meanwhile, TR & Honda go two days without trouble.

[dyrewolfe]

Drivers making snowmen and having snowball fights today at a freezing Catalunya.

[GSC]

Suspect they'll be in Bahrain this time next year, by all accounts this has been a pretty pointless test beyond installation checks.

Be interesting to see if has any impact at start of the year with a lack of running.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Amateur hour continues at McLaren with Vandoorne's car breaking down. I think it has to be posed that McLaren's car design is to blame for their continued woes. The supposedly rubbish Honda powerunit hasn't smashed itself to pieces in the Toro Rosso. There's something fundamentally wrong with McLaren and their size 0 bodywork

[GSC]

Think it's entirely too early to make any judgement calls, particularly when there's no indication that any issues were caused by similar issues to last year.

[Guest]

Broke down three times today. Battery problems, followed by a hydraulic issue. They’ve always pushed the limit with cooling, suffered overheating last week, and burn marks evident today towards the rear. Honda has gone, so not many scapegoats, if any, left.

Having said all that, nobody is really expecting anything more than 4th or 5th this year at McLaren. Still a customer team, trying to play with the big boys.

[dyrewolfe]

Some interesting tyre info coming out of today's running. The below posted by Andrew Benson:

These runs on ultra-soft tyres from Lewis Hamilton and Daniel Ricciardo are throwing up some interesting numbers. At the Abu Dhabi tyre test of the 2018 tyres last November, there were big off-sets between the compounds - one second between the hyper-soft and the ultra-soft, and 0.6/0.7secs in each consecutive step from ultra to soft. That would make the expected delta between an ultra-soft and a medium about 1.4secs, given that we know there is not much in the difference between the soft and medium in Barcelona at this test.

But the gaps are much smaller than that. Hamilton did a 1:18.945 on the mediums, then a 1:18.752 on super-soft, an 18.684 on the ultra; and a 18.400 on the hyper. Ricciardo did a 19.741 on the medium, and then an 18.964 on the ultra; and a 18.357 on the hyper. So Hamilton only found 0.3secs between medium and ultra and Ricciardo 0.8secs; on the hyper to medium, for Hamilton the delta was 0.5secs; for Ricciardo 1.4secs.

Of course we don’t know the fuel loads or engine modes. But that does fit a pattern, in that Mercedes have often in recent years found less time on the softer compounds than other teams - although not by as much as these numbers suggest. But it also suggests at this early stage that the off-sets between the tyres are nowhere near as big as might originally have been suspected. And that means that, perhaps, the McLaren - which has done nearly all its running on the softer tyres - is not as bad as it has looked so far.

Seems Mercedes aren't finding such incremental improvements in lap times, as they use the softer compounds, as other teams...notably Red Bull.

Looking at the latest times, in fact, Ricciardo has just managed to go nearly 4/10ths faster on the same hypersoft tyres. Sadly, Alonso's best time on this compound is nearly 2 sec slower.

12:10
Latest times
1) Ricciardo 1:18.047 hypersoft

2) Hamilton 1:18.400 hypersoft

3) Vettel 1:19.541 medium

4) Alonso 1:19.856 hypersoft

5) Sainz 1:20.042 medium

6) Grosjean 1:20.237 soft

7) Stroll 1:20.349 soft

8) Ocon 1:20.805 soft

9) Hartley 1:20.834 soft

10) Leclerc 1:21.110 supersoft

[dyrewolfe]

Broke down three times today. Battery problems, followed by a hydraulic issue. They’ve always pushed the limit with cooling, suffered overheating last week, and burn marks evident today towards the rear. Honda has gone, so not many scapegoats, if any, left.

Having said all that, nobody is really expecting anything more than 4th or 5th this year at McLaren. Still a customer team, trying to play with the big boys.

They've done it plenty of times in the past. No reason they can't do so again in the future. Still seems they need some changes in their design team though.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel goes supersonic on the hyper-softs, clocks a 1.17.1. All things being equal means nothing but a storming effort nonetheless

[Guest]

Mercedes avg last stint on mediums - 1.19.97 (21 laps)
Ferrari's avg last stint on mediums - 1.21.08 (18 laps)
Red Bull's avg last stint on mediums -1.21.2 (18 laps)

General consensus, it’s pretty much status quo from last year. Mercedes very strong on medium compound. I think Ferrari have shown their hand with that 1.17, and Mercedes haven’t responded, which shows they aren’t worried.

Renault are comfortably fourth, and possibly in no-mans land.

Then come the rest.....

[Guest]

Delta lap times for the tyres provided by Pirelli, suggest if Bottas has done a 1.18.9 on mediums, that equates to around a 1.16.4 on the hypersofts. Vettel did a 1.17.1 and Kimi a 1.17.2 on the hypersofts today. Alonso did a 1.17.7 on the hypersoft. You imagine Ferrari had some in the bank, but it still looks ominous. Red Bull may have even leapfrogged Ferrari.

[GSC]

Race week rolls round again. Here's hoping Ferrari have some pace in the locker or it'll be another snooze fest of a season.

[Fernando]

They've added a 3rd DRS activation point for the Aussie Gp with the trigger just after T12 so the exit of the fast left/right

[GSC]

If it leads to actual racing I can't even get that upset

[Fernando]

I think it's so cars that can't follow through it can catch back up really.

[GSC]

Top 3 all reasonably close. Hope stays alive!

Danny Ric taking a 3 place drop though

[GSC]

Going too slow under a red flag

[Guest]

Top 3 all reasonably close. Hope stays alive!

General feeling in the paddock, is that Mercedes is still comfortably top dog. Always the general feeling of excitement, followed by a depressing realisation Horner’s interview said it all, in terms of the Mercedes PU advantage, and how good their fuel consumption is. Even Prost has stated the top 3 are in a different league, and Renault won’t be challenging for podiums. Haas, Renault & McLaren lead the midfield pack, with FI & Williams going backwards. TR & then Sauber bringing up the rear.

All in all, not much has changed. Raining for qualifying, might mix it up though.

As for those on board Halo camera shots. Truly, truly, truly appalling.

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[GSC]

I would suspect RB to be limited in qualifying, Merc and probably Ferrari can turn up the engine while the Renault remains limited for reliability sakes.

[Marky]

As for those on board Halo camera shots. Truly, truly, truly appalling.

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How dare they put the safety of the drivers ahead of your personal enjoyment of on-board camera shots.

[dyrewolfe]

I would suspect RB to be limited in qualifying, Merc and probably Ferrari can turn up the engine while the Renault remains limited for reliability sakes.

Cyril Abiteboul has already hinted Renault would be prepared to take strategic penalties, if they felt it would benefit them over the course of the season. Toro Rosso appear to be having similar thoughts, despite Honda's solid showing thus far.

Then again, they have been pretty conservative with their engine settings in testing. If they turn up the wick for races...

[GSC]

I don't think they're confident they can run it at full power for that long.

[GSC]

Over half a second to the rest of the field, maybe next year then...

[Guest]

Always knew they were still top dog. Hamilton really hooked it up on that last run. As for Bottas, just abysmal, and needs replacing next year.

[GSC]

Liberty might be glad for all the halo debate because thats a massive gap. At least its a talking point, if thats representative we're back to the 1 team dominance snoozefests.

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