Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

by GunsGermsV2 Tue 02 May 2017, 2:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

The pools for the 2019 rugby world cup will be drawn on the 10th May 2017 in Kyoto. Next Wednesday.

Band 1: The four highest-ranked directly qualified teams, New Zealand (1), England (2), Australia (3), Ireland (4)
Band 2: The next four highest-ranked directly qualified teams Scotland (5), France (6), South Africa (7), Wales (8)
Band 3: The final four directly qualified teams Argentina (9), Japan (11), Georgia (12), Italy (15)

The remaining two bands will be made up of the eight qualifying seeds, with allocation to each band being based on the previous Rugby World Cup playing strength:
Band 4:
Americas 1, Europe 1, Oceania 1, Oceania 2
Band 5:
Africa 1, Americas 2, Europe/Oceania play-off, Repechage

Not sure how soon after the draw will the venues for each pool game be confirmed but hopefully soon enough.

Final Draw:
Pool A
Ireland
Scotland
Japan
Europe 1 (Romania)
Europe2 (Russia?)/Oceania3 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)

Pool B
New Zealand
South Africa
Italy
Africa 1 (Namibia)
Repercharge Winner

Pool C
England
France
Argentina
Americas 1 (USA?)
Oceania 2 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)

Pool D
Australia
Wales
Georgia
Oceania 1 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)
Americas 2 (Canada)

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 11 May 2017, 3:31 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Recwatcher16 wrote:Ireland will be an interesting Schimdt proposition in 2019.

Given the timing, Best, Ryan, Heaslip, O'Brien, Payne, Trimble & Kearney will all be well into or approaching their mid thirties. Even Sexton now has a running style akin to my old granny. That's a lot of experienced players who might not make 2019 in a competitive physical condition.

I remember Dallaglio making the 2007 RWC and he was a shadow of the player from four years earlier.

Agreed, and I think Schmidt has been slow to introduce the next batch. The reality is that a good portion of the above will not be around. The list you have given is fairly close to the spine of the current team as well, worryingly. So we could have a fairly undercooked team by the time 2019 rolls around. In fact, it could be in the middle of a transitional period. Which would be pretty dumb to say the least.

Nonsense. You do know that Schmidt has capped more new players than most coaches since the last RWC? Why dont you do an analysis of how many new caps there have been for the top 10 nations since the last RWC. I think you will be surprised.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 11 May 2017, 3:34 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Recwatcher16 wrote:Ireland will be an interesting Schimdt proposition in 2019.

Given the timing, Best, Ryan, Heaslip, O'Brien, Payne, Trimble & Kearney will all be well into or approaching their mid thirties. Even Sexton now has a running style akin to my old granny. That's a lot of experienced players who might not make 2019 in a competitive physical condition.

I remember Dallaglio making the 2007 RWC and he was a shadow of the player from four years earlier.

Agreed, and I think Schmidt has been slow to introduce the next batch. The reality is that a good portion of the above will not be around. The list you have given is fairly close to the spine of the current team as well, worryingly. So we could have a fairly undercooked team by the time 2019 rolls around. In fact, it could be in the middle of a transitional period. Which would be pretty dumb to say the least.

Nonsense. You do know that Schmidt has capped more new players than most coaches since the last RWC? Why dont you do an analysis of how many new caps there have been for the top 10 nations since the last RWC. I think you will be surprised.

For me the reasons are a bit more complicated than Schmidt is blooding new players. Ireland is blessed with enormous strength in depth, IMO rivaling that of NZ and England in terms of quality replacements.

As a result Schmidt has capped more new players because so many have been playing so well their performances in many cases have been impossible to ignore.

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 11 May 2017, 3:41 pm

Maybe so either way though the result is the same. Here are the number of new caps for six nations sides since the RWC final in 2015:

Ireland 20
England 12
Wales 3
Scotland 8
Italy 17
France 25*

*not 100% sure on this figure but looks right.

Complete myth that Schmidt doesnt cap young talent.

These are the Ireland debuts since Nov 15:
CJ Stander
Stuart McCloskey
Josh van der Flier
Ultan Dillane
Finlay Bealham
Quinn Roux
Sean Reidy
Tiernan O'Halloran
Matt Healy
Joey Carbery
Garry Ringrose
Billy Holland
Jack O'Donoghue
John Ryan
James Tracy
Niyi Adeolokun
Luke McGrath
Dan Leavy
Niall Scannell
Andrew Conway

Id say a good proportion of these players will be regulars, some are already.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 11 May 2017, 3:54 pm

That 3 for Wales is just pitiful.

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 11 May 2017, 3:55 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That 3 for Wales is just pitiful.

Wales in fairness has quite a young squad albeit some young guys like North have a lot of games on the clock. 72 caps at age 25 is just phenomenal.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 11 May 2017, 4:14 pm

I did read something about us having the youngest squad in the Six Nations, or something like that. But it's not just about age, it's also about experience. You should be looking to increase the number of players with Test experience so that you're not throwing in rookies when players get injured. It's lax of this coaching team not to be doing it.

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 11 May 2017, 4:17 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I did read something about us having the youngest squad in the Six Nations, or something like that. But it's less about age and more about experience. You should be looking to increase the number of players with Test experience so that you're not throwing in rookies when players get injured. It's lax of this coaching team not to be doing it.

I agree with you on that.The idea for all sides is to get to the RWC with as many top experienced players as possible. Schmidt is doing a good job in that respect while still coming either 1st 2nd or 3rd in the 6 nations.

by LordDowlais Thu 11 May 2017, 4:32 pm

Yeah I love all this Wales do not cap any "new blood" theory. The thing is, all our new blood have been around out of necessity for a while now, we do not really need to worry until the world cup after next, which is ample time.

Samson Lee 24yrs old
Tomas Francis 25yrs old
Rob Evans 25yrs old
Nicky Smith 23yrs old
Sam Parry 25yrs old
Scott Baldwin 28yrs old
Kristian Dacey 27yrs old
Ken Owens 30yrs old (old man of the front row)

We seem pretty well stocked for forwards for the next few years. Very Happy

I could keep going, but add to all this players like Olly Cracknell, Rory Thornton, James King, Ollie Griffiths, Ellis Jenkins, Dan Baker, Sam Davies, Owen Watkin, Rhun Williams, Keelan Giles, Steff Evans, Gareth Anscombe...... ect

All the above players are only in their early twenties.

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 11 May 2017, 4:35 pm

I think Wales will be fine too. They may end up having the most experienced squad at the next RWC

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 11 May 2017, 4:40 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Yeah I love all this Wales do not cap any "new blood" theory.

It's not a theory Dowlais, it's a fact. Three new caps since the last World Cup. Thank chuff there's a Lions tour to force us to cap new players!

by LordDowlais Thu 11 May 2017, 4:40 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I think Wales will be fine too. They may end up having the most experienced squad at the next RWC

In a strange way we might, come WC 2023 we might be going into it with nearly 2000 caps between the squad. Shocked

by LordDowlais Thu 11 May 2017, 4:49 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Yeah I love all this Wales do not cap any "new blood" theory.

It's not a theory Dowlais, it's a fact. Three new caps since the last World Cup.

Yes, but we do not need to cap players, we did a few years ago, when we were in sh!te street and had to cap kids because of our lack of players, but most of the Welsh team are all 26yrs old or younger.

Players we will be without in 2023:-

AWJ
Luke Charteris

Players like Rhys Webb, Dan Biggar, Liam Williams, Gareth Davies, Sam Warburton, Justin Tuperic, Jake Ball, will all be here and still in their 20's for the next world cup, and will probably still have a lot to offer in the following world cup. Also, it is not as if there are no players developing behind them. Players like Ross Moriarty are only 23yrs old. Also, Wales are capping 7 new players on this summers tour.

by Gwlad Thu 11 May 2017, 4:51 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Yeah I love all this Wales do not cap any "new blood" theory.

It's not a theory Dowlais, it's a fact. Three new caps since the last World Cup.

Yes, but we do not need to cap players, we did a few years ago, when we were in sh!te street and had to cap kids because of our lack of players, but most of the Welsh team are all 26yrs old or younger.

Players we will be without in 2023:-

AWJ
Luke Charteris

Players like Rhys Webb, Dan Biggar, Liam Williams, Gareth Davies, Sam Warburton, Justin Tuperic, Jake Ball, will all be here and still in their 20's for the next world cup, and will probably still have a lot to offer in the following world cup. Also, it is not as if there are no players developing behind them. Players like Ross Moriarty are only 23yrs old. Also, Wales are capping 7 new players on this summers tour.

Which is great but those players have to be used in the autumn and 6 Nations too.

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 11 May 2017, 4:52 pm

There comes a point in every WC cycle when you have to consolidate what you already have. For most sides that will be after this years summer tour I expect.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 11 May 2017, 4:56 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Wales are capping 7 new players on this summers tour.

Yes, out of necessity.

by LordDowlais Thu 11 May 2017, 4:57 pm

Gwlad wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Yeah I love all this Wales do not cap any "new blood" theory.

It's not a theory Dowlais, it's a fact. Three new caps since the last World Cup.

Yes, but we do not need to cap players, we did a few years ago, when we were in sh!te street and had to cap kids because of our lack of players, but most of the Welsh team are all 26yrs old or younger.

Players we will be without in 2023:-

AWJ
Luke Charteris

Players like Rhys Webb, Dan Biggar, Liam Williams, Gareth Davies, Sam Warburton, Justin Tuperic, Jake Ball, will all be here and still in their 20's for the next world cup, and will probably still have a lot to offer in the following world cup. Also, it is not as if there are no players developing behind them. Players like Ross Moriarty are only 23yrs old. Also, Wales are capping 7 new players on this summers tour.

Which is great but those players have to be used in the autumn and 6 Nations too.

IMO, this is one of the only things the current regime do correctly, they do not just cap youngsters willy nilly, but what the do is, they integrate youngsters into the training squad so that they get a feel, and some experience of what it is they are required to to do, they should then take this into their everyday regimes and thrive.

But that is only my opinion.

by Gwlad Thu 11 May 2017, 5:01 pm

Fair enough Lord but I think there comes point where this can be counterproductive - look at Cracknell.

by LordDowlais Thu 11 May 2017, 5:06 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Wales are capping 7 new players on this summers tour.

Yes, out of necessity.

So we are capping Rhun Williams out of necessity are we ? Why would we, when we have other players at fullback/wing ?

I would not see Ashton Hewitt as a necessity cap either, we have other wingers we could have used.

Owen Williams ? We have Sam Davies and Gareth Anscombe, so I do not see a necessity there.

Steff Evans has earned his call up, not a necessity.

Thomas Young, I suppose so, as Warburton and Tuperic are away with the Lions, but we still could have used James Davies or Ellis Jenkins.

Olly Cracknell like Steff Evans has earned his call up, but you might say he is a necessity, as Ross Moriarty is away with the Lions, but is Lydiate injured ?

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 11 May 2017, 5:09 pm

LordDowlais wrote:IMO, this is one of the only things the current regime do correctly, they do not just cap youngsters willy nilly, but what the do is, they integrate youngsters into the training squad so that they get a feel, and some experience of what it is they are required to to do, they should then take this into their everyday regimes and thrive.

No one's talking about capping players willy-nilly, Dowlais.

I'm pretty sure that they'd get a better feel of what's required of them by actually playing some Test rugby.

by Gwlad Thu 11 May 2017, 5:09 pm

Is Cracknell selected?

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 11 May 2017, 5:13 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Wales are capping 7 new players on this summers tour.

Yes, out of necessity.

So we are capping Rhun Williams out of necessity are we ? Why would we, when we have other players at fullback/wing ?

I would not see Ashton Hewitt as a necessity cap either, we have other wingers we could have used.

Owen Williams ? We have Sam Davies and Gareth Anscombe, so I do not see a necessity there.

Steff Evans has earned his call up, not a necessity.

Thomas Young, I suppose so, as Warburton and Tuperic are away with the Lions, but we still could have used James Davies or Ellis Jenkins.

Olly Cracknell like Steff Evans has earned his call up, but you might say he is a necessity, as Ross Moriarty is away with the Lions, but is Lydiate injured ?

You're missing the point. If there wasn't a Lions tour, the usual suspects would be touring with Wales ahead of most of those potential new caps.

by LordDowlais Thu 11 May 2017, 5:48 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You're missing the point. If there wasn't a Lions tour, the usual suspects would be touring with Wales ahead of most of those potential new caps.

You do realise that it is a world rugby directive that unions cannot send weekend teams on summer tours anymore don't you ?

by LordDowlais Thu 11 May 2017, 5:48 pm

Gwlad wrote:Is Cracknell selected?

Sorry meant Ollie Griffiths. Doh

by The Great Aukster Thu 11 May 2017, 5:55 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Maybe so either way though the result is the same. Here are the number of new caps for six nations sides since the RWC final in 2015:

Ireland 20
England 12
Wales 3
Scotland 8
Italy 17
France 25*

*not 100% sure on this figure but looks right.

Complete myth that Schmidt doesnt cap young talent.

These are the Ireland debuts since Nov 15:
CJ Stander
Stuart McCloskey
Josh van der Flier
Ultan Dillane
Finlay Bealham
Quinn Roux
Sean Reidy
Tiernan O'Halloran
Matt Healy
Joey Carbery
Garry Ringrose
Billy Holland
Jack O'Donoghue
John Ryan
James Tracy
Niyi Adeolokun
Luke McGrath
Dan Leavy
Niall Scannell
Andrew Conway

Id say a good proportion of these players will be regulars, some are already.

Billy Holland - young talent? Of that group only Stander, Ringrose and VdF are in any way regulars and all have starters in front of them.

Schmidt isn't shy of capping players but there is a danger of confusing quantity with depth. Schmidt has capped Ah You, Herring, Diack, Copeland, Moore, Murphy and Marmion since the 2014 6N and it's unlikely that any of those apart from Marmion will see many more caps before the 2019 RWC. About half of Ireland's professional rugby player base is now capped and it is right that Schmidt has had a look, but now he needs to focus on those already capped and only resort to capping new players in exceptional circumstances.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 11 May 2017, 5:56 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You're missing the point. If there wasn't a Lions tour, the usual suspects would be touring with Wales ahead of most of those potential new caps.

You do realise that it is a world rugby directive that unions cannot send weekend teams on summer tours anymore don't you ?

Eh?

by Scottrf Thu 11 May 2017, 6:20 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You're missing the point. If there wasn't a Lions tour, the usual suspects would be touring with Wales ahead of most of those potential new caps.

You do realise that it is a world rugby directive that unions cannot send weekend teams on summer tours anymore don't you ?

Even if the matches are on a weekend?

by LordDowlais Thu 11 May 2017, 6:21 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You're missing the point. If there wasn't a Lions tour, the usual suspects would be touring with Wales ahead of most of those potential new caps.

You do realise that it is a world rugby directive that unions cannot send weekend teams on summer tours anymore don't you ?

Eh?

Sorry damn spell check, I meant weakened squads or development squads on summer tours to the SH. It was a directive brought in a year or two ago.

Also, go on then, tell me the uncapped players who you think should have been given at least one cap but hasn't since the last world cup ?

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 11 May 2017, 6:57 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Recwatcher16 wrote:Ireland will be an interesting Schimdt proposition in 2019.

Given the timing, Best, Ryan, Heaslip, O'Brien, Payne, Trimble & Kearney will all be well into or approaching their mid thirties. Even Sexton now has a running style akin to my old granny. That's a lot of experienced players who might not make 2019 in a competitive physical condition.

I remember Dallaglio making the 2007 RWC and he was a shadow of the player from four years earlier.

Agreed, and I think Schmidt has been slow to introduce the next batch. The reality is that a good portion of the above will not be around. The list you have given is fairly close to the spine of the current team as well, worryingly. So we could have a fairly undercooked team by the time 2019 rolls around. In fact, it could be in the middle of a transitional period. Which would be pretty dumb to say the least.

Nonsense. You do know that Schmidt has capped more new players than most coaches since the last RWC? Why dont you do an analysis of how many new caps there have been for the top 10 nations since the last RWC. I think you will be surprised.

I'm well aware of the figures. The point still remains that the core of the team will be on the wrong side of 30 in the next RWC and we are running out of time to blood the next batch. In some instances, the reluctance to introduce new talent for any meaningful number of games has damaged us. I could give you a list of isolated new caps who have had very little game-time since, or time to settle.

The reality is that Schmidt will only bring in new players to the main team when his hand is forced i.e. players retiring or injuries.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 11 May 2017, 7:07 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Maybe so either way though the result is the same. Here are the number of new caps for six nations sides since the RWC final in 2015:

Ireland 20
England 12
Wales 3
Scotland 8
Italy 17
France 25*

*not 100% sure on this figure but looks right.

Complete myth that Schmidt doesnt cap young talent.

These are the Ireland debuts since Nov 15:
CJ Stander - obvious candidate, serious injuries in the back row when he was capped
Stuart McCloskey - injuries in the centre, barely featured after decent debut
Josh van der Flier - regular feature, hard to ignore, injuries in the back row once again
Ultan Dillane - injuries in the second row, wouldn't have heard of him had this not been the case
Finlay Bealham - need for a tighthead
Quinn Roux - injuries in the second row
Sean Reidy - injuries in the back row, unlikely to feature again
Tiernan O'Halloran - injury to the great Rob Kearney and other options, hasn't featured much since
Matt Healy - injuries in the back three, will barely feature again
Joey Carbery - starting to see a theme? Injuries...
Garry Ringrose - came in because of injuries in the centre, has impressed enough to establish himself (while competition is injured)
Billy Holland - injuries in the second row
Jack O'Donoghue - good opportunity against Canada, apparently in Schmidt's sights
John Ryan - need for a tighthead
James Tracy - injuries
Niyi Adeolokun - partly injuries, partly form reward
Luke McGrath - injury to Murray, retirement of Reddan
Dan Leavy - see JOD
Niall Scannell - injuries
Andrew Conway - see every other back three

Id say a good proportion of these players will be regulars, some are already.

You mention analysis yet do none yourself. I've done it for you.

That was actually even more surprising than I thought as well. Even in the more "experimental" games, injury has been the only real factor in whether or not a player gets capped. Then, even after being capped, when the injured players return they are dropped again.

by Pot Hale Thu 11 May 2017, 8:38 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You're missing the point. If there wasn't a Lions tour, the usual suspects would be touring with Wales ahead of most of those potential new caps.

You do realise that it is a world rugby directive that unions cannot send weekend teams on summer tours anymore don't you ?

Eh?

Sorry damn spell check, I meant weakened squads or development squads on summer tours to the SH. It was a directive brought in a year or two ago.

Also, go on then, tell me the uncapped players who you think should have been given at least one cap but hasn't since the last world cup ?

What WR directive was brought in a year or two ago about summer tours?

by The Great Aukster Thu 11 May 2017, 10:13 pm

Schmidt has brought in players for injuries sure, but more than Deccie and way more than Eddie. The difference is that he's prepared to keep trawling the pot to see if he unearths any gems. The only player he hasn't capped yet is Byrne who has any claim to being overlooked.
It is time though that Joe made up his mind and started sticking with combinations rather than going back to square one every couple of months. Successful RWC sides will have squads of say 40 mostly interchangeable players - not 60+ players.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 11 May 2017, 10:44 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Schmidt has brought in players for injuries sure, but more than Deccie and way more than Eddie. The difference is that he's prepared to keep trawling the pot to see if he unearths any gems. The only player he hasn't capped yet is Byrne who has any claim to being overlooked.
It is time though that Joe made up his mind and started sticking with combinations rather than going back to square one every couple of months. Successful RWC sides will have squads of say 40 mostly interchangeable players - not 60+ players.

That's exactly my point, and the one you have both made and disputed in the same paragraph. It isn't about the number of new caps, which is why I haven't spoke of Schmidt bringing in new caps. I've talked about him blooding new players, and by that I mean making them established squad members, ready to step up when the old guard leave or if injuries occur. Instead, Schmidt will replace the old guard with...more of the old guard. Fergus McFadden being the greatest example of that.

Schmidt is focused on players knowing the systems, we all know that. Which is why he is slow to trust outsiders.

by SamTheQuin Thu 11 May 2017, 11:08 pm

Wonder how much Eddie Jones' experience of managing in Japan will help England.

Be a great place to go and watch a World Cup.

by geoff999rugby Thu 11 May 2017, 11:13 pm

Ireland will be fine - plenty of talent coming through

Biggest worries are Hooker, Lock, Full Back
Need to convert one of the exciting young wingers to 15 - Sweetnam, Bryne or Stockdale or put Payne there till the next World Cup.
So even 15 doesn't worry me too much.
Need Locks other than Toner and Henderson getting regular game time and a true successor to Best has yet to emerge

by LordDowlais Fri 12 May 2017, 7:59 am

Pot Hale wrote:
What WR directive was brought in a year or two ago about summer tours?

That the NH unions should not use the summer tours as a development tool. I am sure I have not dreamed this up.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Fri 12 May 2017, 8:46 am

SamTheQuin wrote:Wonder how much Eddie Jones' experience of managing in Japan will help England.

Be a great place to go and watch a World Cup.

I went to a couple of Top League games over there in late 2015 - really enjoyed it

by munkian Fri 12 May 2017, 8:52 am

SamTheQuin wrote:Wonder how much Eddie Jones' experience of managing in Japan will help England.

Be a great place to go and watch a World Cup.

Massively expensive mind. Not a huge drinking culture either so wouldn't be surprised if they run out of beer Wink

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Fri 12 May 2017, 9:00 am

munkian wrote:
SamTheQuin wrote:Wonder how much Eddie Jones' experience of managing in Japan will help England.

Be a great place to go and watch a World Cup.

Massively expensive mind. Not a huge drinking culture either so wouldn't be surprised if they run out of beer

Definitely pricey. Though I paid £10 for entry to 2 Top League matches

They do make really good whisky for when the beer runs out.

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 12 May 2017, 9:03 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

You mention analysis yet do none yourself. I've done it for you.

That was actually even more surprising than I thought as well. Even in the more "experimental" games, injury has been the only real factor in whether or not a player gets capped. Then, even after being capped, when the injured players return they are dropped again.

It hardly matters if the new cap was as a result of an injury or not. Injuries are very common in rugby so makes perfect sense. The point is that when injuries occurred Schmidt had young guys ready to make the step up rather than bringing in guys that we older and less likely to be around into the next WC and beyond. It was no coincidence that nearly all of the new caps slotted really well into the squad as they had been primed for a while by Schmidt in previous squad sessions.

It looks like you are just one of those people who is going to get their knickers in a twist and look to find fault in literally anything Schmidt does unless he picks your favourite players. Its fairly easy to poke holes in your arguments though.

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 12 May 2017, 9:09 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Schmidt has brought in players for injuries sure, but more than Deccie and way more than Eddie. The difference is that he's prepared to keep trawling the pot to see if he unearths any gems. The only player he hasn't capped yet is Byrne who has any claim to being overlooked.
It is time though that Joe made up his mind and started sticking with combinations rather than going back to square one every couple of months. Successful RWC sides will have squads of say 40 mostly interchangeable players - not 60+ players.

That's exactly my point, and the one you have both made and disputed in the same paragraph. It isn't about the number of new caps, which is why I haven't spoke of Schmidt bringing in new caps. I've talked about him blooding new players, and by that I mean making them established squad members, ready to step up when the old guard leave or if injuries occur. Instead, Schmidt will replace the old guard with...more of the old guard. Fergus McFadden being the greatest example of that.

Schmidt is focused on players knowing the systems, we all know that. Which is why he is slow to trust outsiders.

McFadden didnt make the bench for any six nations match. He was called up at the end of the tournament as squad cover because he is experienced but didnt make the bench. Conway made the bench instead and got his first cap. You dont really think your arguments through at all do you?

by munkian Fri 12 May 2017, 9:16 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
munkian wrote:
SamTheQuin wrote:Wonder how much Eddie Jones' experience of managing in Japan will help England.

Be a great place to go and watch a World Cup.

Massively expensive mind. Not a huge drinking culture either so wouldn't be surprised if they run out of beer

Definitely pricey. Though I paid £10 for entry to 2 Top League matches

They do make really good whisky for when the beer runs out.

Very true. I think there's a bit of craft beer scene there too come to think of it.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 12 May 2017, 9:19 am

It matters if that is the only reason you will introduce new players because it ignores other factors such as age, need for experience and perhaps most importantly, form. As well as the fact Schmidt will usually bring the injured player straight back in and drop the new cap, regardless of form.

Slotted in well? During the last RWC we didn't have players slotting in well for the injured players and we were absolutely blasted off the park. Schmidt can't be blamed too harshly because of the significance of the players we lost, but it can be prevented for next time. We could easily have the same scenario if we stick with the regulars and give limited game time to those behind.

Yeah, that must be it, despite the fact I think very few Ulster players should be playing for Ireland at the moment. I think it is more likely you are a fanboy who pipes up every time he receives even the faintest criticism.

Which poster in your bedroom is bigger - Jamie Heaslip or Joe Schmidt?

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 12 May 2017, 9:21 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Schmidt has brought in players for injuries sure, but more than Deccie and way more than Eddie. The difference is that he's prepared to keep trawling the pot to see if he unearths any gems. The only player he hasn't capped yet is Byrne who has any claim to being overlooked.
It is time though that Joe made up his mind and started sticking with combinations rather than going back to square one every couple of months. Successful RWC sides will have squads of say 40 mostly interchangeable players - not 60+ players.

That's exactly my point, and the one you have both made and disputed in the same paragraph. It isn't about the number of new caps, which is why I haven't spoke of Schmidt bringing in new caps. I've talked about him blooding new players, and by that I mean making them established squad members, ready to step up when the old guard leave or if injuries occur. Instead, Schmidt will replace the old guard with...more of the old guard. Fergus McFadden being the greatest example of that.

Schmidt is focused on players knowing the systems, we all know that. Which is why he is slow to trust outsiders.

McFadden didnt make the bench for any six nations match. He was called up at the end of the tournament as squad cover because he is experienced but didnt make the bench. Conway made the bench instead and got his first cap. You dont really think your arguments through at all do you?

Sorry - could you point out where I said McFadden made the bench for the Six Nations game? He was introduced into the squad over a plethora of options who are ready to be introduced to regular test rugby. He offers nothing.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 12 May 2017, 9:22 am

I forgot about the McFadden poster as well. Apologies.

by Pete330v2 Fri 12 May 2017, 9:30 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
munkian wrote:
SamTheQuin wrote:Wonder how much Eddie Jones' experience of managing in Japan will help England.

Be a great place to go and watch a World Cup.

Massively expensive mind. Not a huge drinking culture either so wouldn't be surprised if they run out of beer

Definitely pricey. Though I paid £10 for entry to 2 Top League matches

They do make really good whisky for when the beer runs out.

The Yamazaki is a fantastic whiskey, actually that's whisky seeing as they copied the Scottish, not Irish Whiskey. You got that spelling correct Pete Smile

They also do a fair trade in Sake, hangover free alcohol if ever there was one.
I might go actually

by **Rugby Fan** Fri 12 May 2017, 9:50 am

munkian wrote:
SamTheQuin wrote:Wonder how much Eddie Jones' experience of managing in Japan will help England.

Be a great place to go and watch a World Cup.

Massively expensive mind. Not a huge drinking culture either so wouldn't be surprised if they run out of beer

They literally did run out of beer when they hosted the Bledisloe match at the old National Stadium in 2009. Spectators went to the kiosks at half-time and service was so slow, everyone started double and triple-ordering so they wouldn't have to come back. The match restarted with a lot of the crowd still waiting for beer, and then they ran out.

It was a learning experience, so I doubt that'll happen again.

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 12 May 2017, 9:58 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Schmidt has brought in players for injuries sure, but more than Deccie and way more than Eddie. The difference is that he's prepared to keep trawling the pot to see if he unearths any gems. The only player he hasn't capped yet is Byrne who has any claim to being overlooked.
It is time though that Joe made up his mind and started sticking with combinations rather than going back to square one every couple of months. Successful RWC sides will have squads of say 40 mostly interchangeable players - not 60+ players.

That's exactly my point, and the one you have both made and disputed in the same paragraph. It isn't about the number of new caps, which is why I haven't spoke of Schmidt bringing in new caps. I've talked about him blooding new players, and by that I mean making them established squad members, ready to step up when the old guard leave or if injuries occur. Instead, Schmidt will replace the old guard with...more of the old guard. Fergus McFadden being the greatest example of that.

Schmidt is focused on players knowing the systems, we all know that. Which is why he is slow to trust outsiders.

McFadden didnt make the bench for any six nations match. He was called up at the end of the tournament as squad cover because he is experienced but didnt make the bench. Conway made the bench instead and got his first cap. You dont really think your arguments through at all do you?

Sorry - could you point out where I said McFadden made the bench for the Six Nations game? He was introduced into the squad over a plethora of options who are ready to be introduced to regular test rugby. He offers nothing.

You said "Instead, Schmidt will replace the old guard with...more of the old guard. Fergus McFadden being the greatest example of that."

Who did McFadden replace? He didnt play any games or make the bench. As such McFadden doesn't back up your point at all. If McFadden is "the greatest example of that" then it seems you dont have much of a point at all.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 12 May 2017, 10:07 am

It isn't the first time McFadden has jumped the queue because he "knows the system". He did come on the bench last Six Nations over better options and that was strange enough (playing well against Italy, I guess). It was almost a parody this time around when he came into the squad. That is the point though. Schmidt is renowned for sticking with players who know the systems/his old mates at Leinster.

Didn't he replace Bowe, for goodness sake? What was Bowe doing there? McFadden may not have featured in the match day 23 but that doesn't change the fact he was called into the squad over much more promising options who may have benefitted from learning the systems that Schmidt loves.

Anyway, this isn't the thread for this debate.

by munkian Fri 12 May 2017, 10:16 am

Guys, please, take it to another thread, we are trying to talk about beer Rolling Eyes

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 12 May 2017, 10:20 am

Well he is still a good player so there is no harm at all. There were also other young players in the squad that didn't get capped who will have benefited from the experience like Rory Scannell. There were also two new caps during the campaign and will no doubt be more in the summer tour.

Schmidt is also renowned for capping lots of new players and putting together probably the most squad depth the Ireland team has ever seen. Whats the problem?

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