Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

So it all kicks off today with England's game against Bangladesh at the oval

My prediction is victory for Australia overall....

Should be a really entertaining tournament!

[eirebilly]

New Zealand starting to look very comfortable now.

[guildfordbat]

Hi Billy - a couple of wickets - even one - would give it a different complexion but, yeah, you're right about how it's starting to look. I've always been concerned that runs could mount up quickly with the short boundaries.

[robbo277]

New Zealand starting to look very comfortable now.

11 runs ahead of D/L at the halfway point. 1 run less than England were at the same time, but with an extra wicket in hand.

England need to take a wicket and then squeeze the new man to get a second or at least dry out the runs.

I don't think we have a death bowler like Southee to mop up the tail, so we need to get ahead.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

New Zealand starting to look very comfortable now.

11 runs ahead of D/L at the halfway point. 1 run less than England were at the same time, but with an extra wicket in hand.

England need to take a wicket and then squeeze the new man to get a second or at least dry out the runs.

I don't think we have a death bowler like Southee to mop up the tail, so we need to get ahead.

Our tail's not flash mind - after Anderson at 7 Santner is a plodder, & Milne & Southee are glorified sloggers

[eirebilly]

Hi Billy - a couple of wickets - even one - would give it a different complexion but, yeah, you're right about how it's starting to look. I've always been concerned that runs could mount up quickly with the short boundaries.

Howya Guildford. England simply look toothless in attack and are being picked off far too easily. Trying to figure out what Rashid is trying to do...

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Game rests on the wicket of Williamson...

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Game rests on the wicket of Williamson...

And he's gone

[eirebilly]

Ding ding

[guildfordbat]

New Zealand 156/2 off 30. Half way there, looking good for them with 8 wickets and 20 overs left. Modern thinking is that they should come home from here.

England desperately needing a wicket and more ....

[guildfordbat]

New Zealand 156/2 off 30. Half way there, looking good for them with 8 wickets and 20 overs left. Modern thinking is that they should come home from here.

England desperately needing a wicket and more ....

Spot who got a phone call in the middle of his post! Anyway, Williamson gone - that was vital. Game opens up. See what Broom can do, he was disappointing against Australia.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

New Zealand 156/2 off 30. Half way there, looking good for them with 8 wickets and 20 overs left. Modern thinking is that they should come home from here.

England desperately needing a wicket and more ....

Spot who got a phone call in the middle of his post!  Anyway, Williamson gone - that was vital. Game opens up. See what Broom can do, he was disappointing against Australia.

I've batted with Broom twice - outscored him both times. Granted he was 17 years old at the time ...

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Win predictor seems to think NZ only have a 15% chance of winning from here...seems low to me - especially with Taylor set and Anderson/Neesham still to come

[eirebilly]

Another one, advantage England

[guildfordbat]

New Zealand 156/2 off 30. Half way there, looking good for them with 8 wickets and 20 overs left. Modern thinking is that they should come home from here.

England desperately needing a wicket and more ....

Spot who got a phone call in the middle of his post!  Anyway, Williamson gone - that was vital. Game opens up. See what Broom can do, he was disappointing against Australia.

I've batted with Broom twice - outscored him both times. Granted he was 17 years old at the time ...

Pete - as you started it, I'll mention (again!) that I batted out an over from Ashley Giles to earn my side a draw. Mind you, I was almost 30 at the time and the future King of Spain was about 15!

[eirebilly]

I will say this, excellent captaincy from Morgan to bring back Ball and Wood when NZ looked to be cruising to victory

Still not over by a long shot but feeling a little more confident now.

[robbo277]

England are at 94% in the win predictor now. Favourites from here, but that seems very high.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

England are at 94% in the win predictor now. Favourites from here, but that seems very high.

Very high indeed - if Anderson gets going when he gets in he'll make mincemeat of the 8-10 runs per over run rate. England still have 4 overs of spin to get through, that's where the game will be won/lost from here imo

[robbo277]

I'd probably try to slip through a bit of the spin against the new batsmen, at least from an end.

Rashid is on. Game's on here!

[eirebilly]

Not sure this is a good decision to bring Rashid back into the attack...

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

New Zealand 156/2 off 30. Half way there, looking good for them with 8 wickets and 20 overs left. Modern thinking is that they should come home from here.

England desperately needing a wicket and more ....

Spot who got a phone call in the middle of his post!  Anyway, Williamson gone - that was vital. Game opens up. See what Broom can do, he was disappointing against Australia.

I've batted with Broom twice - outscored him both times. Granted he was 17 years old at the time ...

Pete - as you started it, I'll mention (again!) that I batted out an over from Ashley Giles to earn my side a draw. Mind you, I was almost 30 at the time and the future King of Spain was about 15!

I survived 2 deliveries from Hadlee. Granted he was 48 at the time, & I was 24 (I was 12th Man for the Seniors & the Presidents' Grade team on the next field over were short) - but he hit a 60-ball ton and took a 5 wicket bag that day

[guildfordbat]

Not sure this is a good decision to bring Rashid back into the attack...

Billy - they've got to though unless Morgan turns to Moeen or Root. 4 overs to be used up.

[eirebilly]

Why did they not check whether or not the ball was going to hit the stumps? That looked out to me...

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Why did they not check whether or not the ball was going to hit the stumps? That looked out to me...

Pitched outside the line. Can't be out

[eirebilly]

I survived 2 deliveries from Hadlee. Granted he was 48 at the time, & I was 24 (I was 12th Man for the Seniors & the Presidents' Grade team on the next field over were short) - but he hit a 60-ball ton and took a 5 wicket bag that day

Sir Richard Hadlee?

That tops everything

[eirebilly]

Why did they not check whether or not the ball was going to hit the stumps? That looked out to me...

Missing leg-stump. Can't be out

Pitched outside but looked to be turning into the stumps I thought.

[guildfordbat]

I survived 2 deliveries from Hadlee. Granted he was 48 at the time, & I was 24 (I was 12th Man for the Seniors & the Presidents' Grade team on the next field over were short) - but he hit a 60-ball ton and took a 5 wicket bag that day

Sir Richard Hadlee?

That tops everything

Being in the same postcode as Hadlee tops anything I can come up with about Giles!

[eirebilly]

Hales takes the catch, very much advantage England now

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

I survived 2 deliveries from Hadlee. Granted he was 48 at the time, & I was 24 (I was 12th Man for the Seniors & the Presidents' Grade team on the next field over were short) - but he hit a 60-ball ton and took a 5 wicket bag that day

Sir Richard Hadlee?

That tops everything

Granted we lost by a massive margin (40-over-a-side match). And I played and missed both balls outside off. But I was left not out at the non-strikers end once he'd knocked over the 3 70-year-olds batting below me* to finish the match. And earlier on he whistled a bouncer past the nose of the opening bat who'd had the temerity to cover drive him for 4


*The team batted me at #8 as I was a bit too young for Presidents' Grade (you are allowed 2 under-35s in a playing 11 but it's frowned on unless you're short of players



Back to the match at hand, Neesham gone. We're stuffed barring a Corey Anderson special

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Last chance saloon for NZ with this partnership now you'd feel

[robbo277]

Not sure why Neesham did that. He was looking good, had just hit the 6 and taken them to 10 for the over. Just nudge it for 1 and have a go at Rashid.

The man he hit it to, Hales, could advise him on that!

A lot on Anderson now. Broom isn't middling much.

[robbo277]

Broom out sweeping...

[eirebilly]

See, that was pitching in line but was spinning away, had that have not been shown to hit the wicket, the decision would have been overturned...

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Broom out sweeping...

Exceptional

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

See, that was pitching in line but was spinning away, had that have not been shown to hit the wicket, the decision would have been overturned...

I'm only going off cricinfo for the earlier not out, but if it hits outside the line, & he's playing a shot it can't be out

[eirebilly]

See, that was pitching in line but was spinning away, had that have not been shown to hit the wicket, the decision would have been overturned...

I'm only going off cricinfo for the earlier not out, but if it hits outside the line, & he's playing a shot it can't be out

Fair dues, I don't really completely understand the ins and outs of the referrals.

Anyway's, amazed that ye got to meet and play on the same field as Sir Richard Hadlee, easily my most favourite cricketer of all time.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Excellent stumping from Buttler gets Santner down the legside off Rashid - as we stand Rashid has bowled 3 overs for 8 runs and 2 wickets in this second spell - excellent work

[guildfordbat]

Excellent stumping from Buttler gets Santner down the legside off Rashid - as we stand Rashid has bowled 3 overs for 8 runs and 2 wickets in this second spell - excellent work

Olly - yep, 100% as your generation might say. Hope MfC is watching, he would have lapped that dismissal up.

Wheels now off for New Zealand. Sorry to pick on one player but Broom seemed to have a stuttering effect on the innings when it needed some oomph!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Anderson goes and the tiny bit of hope NZ had goes with him - Plunkett again with the wicket

Been a very good bowling performance by England

[guildfordbat]

Anderson goes and the tiny bit of hope NZ had goes with him - Plunkett again with the wicket

Been a very good bowling performance by England

Yes but also a poor batting performance by New Zealand in the last dozen overs or so. They were well placed at the 30 over mark and could / should have gone on to win from there.

[KP_fan]

NZ disappointed....first with the ball....although they kept taking wickets.....they could not stop Eng from "keep-going at them"

and then in batting..... the explosion, the charge never came....and to me it comes down to tactical blunder in having two super explosive batsmen in Neesham and Anderson and leaving them to sit twiddling their thumbs in the pavilion...for too late....two games in a row.

One of them should have come before Broom at least...... and I would have had the other when Taylor came in.

Not that they would have necessarily won....but would have given themselves a chance to fight...keeping up with the RRR.


Rashid showed that spinners deemed limited in tests.....can have a telling impact in limited overs......Badree, Tahir, Yajuvenda Chahl are all in the same bracket.


Eng through......theoretical chance for the other 3 still to make it.

[robbo277]

Well NZ and BD have an elimination game on Friday, the winner will give themselves a shot.

If Australia get a result against England, they're through. Otherwise it's the winner of Friday's game.

[JDizzle]

If it rains in the Bang vs NZ game, and England beat Australia... Does that tie Bang, NZ, Aus all on the same points? Who would go through in that case - NRR I presume?

[KP_fan]

If it rains in the Bang vs NZ game, and England beat Australia... Does that tie Bang, NZ, Aus all on the same points? Who would go through in that case - NRR I presume?

 
OR

whoever wins the BD-NZ game will have 3 points....
and Aus -Eng game rains-out...Aus have 3 points too.

[guildfordbat]

If it rains in the Bang vs NZ game, and England beat Australia... Does that tie Bang, NZ, Aus all on the same points? Who would go through in that case - NRR I presume?

Hi JD - yes, your presumptions are correct.

In your scenario, New Zealand would definitely go out. They currently have a worse NRR than Bangladesh and that obviously wouldn't change if the two sides shared a no result.

Whether Bangladesh or Australia have the better NRR and finish as group runners up would depend upon how heavily England defeat Australia.

Think that's right.

[wisden]

Very good result and a well deserved semi final place

[JDizzle]

If it rains in the Bang vs NZ game, and England beat Australia... Does that tie Bang, NZ, Aus all on the same points? Who would go through in that case - NRR I presume?

 
OR

whoever wins the BD-NZ game will have 3 points....
and Aus -Eng game rains-out...Aus have 3 points too.

In this case, the winner of NZ vs Bangladesh would go through as it would be 1 win vs 0 wins for Australia? And Wins > NRR.

[JDizzle]

If it rains in the Bang vs NZ game, and England beat Australia... Does that tie Bang, NZ, Aus all on the same points? Who would go through in that case - NRR I presume?

Hi JD - yes, your presumptions are correct.

In your scenario, New Zealand would definitely go out. They currently have a worse NRR than Bangladesh and that obviously wouldn't change if the two sides shared a no result.

Whether Bangladesh or Australia have the better NRR and finish as group runners up would depend upon how heavily England defeat Australia.

Think that's right.

Yes, I have had chance to look at the tables now and NZ NRR is worse than Bangladesh, so they are gone in this situation.

It is, in theory, possible that Aus can go through without actually finishing a game if both remaining games in this group are rained off. Which would be, umm, something I guess!

[KP_fan]

If it rains in the Bang vs NZ game, and England beat Australia... Does that tie Bang, NZ, Aus all on the same points? Who would go through in that case - NRR I presume?

 
OR

whoever wins the BD-NZ game will have 3 points....
and Aus -Eng game rains-out...Aus have 3 points too.

In this case, the winner of NZ vs Bangladesh would go through as it would be 1 win vs 0 wins for Australia? And Wins > NRR.

is there a clause in this tournament where one with higher number of wins gets a precedence over NRR when teams are on equal points '

[alfie]

Good win for England. I didn't see much of the NZ innings - retired after Ball and Wood's first ten overs secure in expectation of a win...I can see why people were a bit concerned when Williamson and Taylor were going ; but these two matches have shown that NZ have a tail that starts at five so one wicket was always going to cruel their chances. (OK that is a bit harsh perhaps but I really do not much rate the rest of their order - their top four are excellent but they've been let down twice in a row now)
I remain surprised many felt England's 310 was under par. Always thought this pitch had more for the bowlers than a lot of the placid ODI pitches we've seen lately : certainly Plunkett seems to have found it !

Hope England don't switch off for the "dead" game with Australia. Winning is a nice habit to maintain...

[robbo277]

Good win for England.  I didn't see much of the NZ innings - retired after Ball and Wood's first ten overs secure in expectation of a win...I can see why people were a bit concerned when Williamson and Taylor were going ; but these two matches have shown that NZ have a tail that starts at five so one wicket was always going to cruel their chances. (OK that is a bit harsh perhaps but I really do not much rate the rest of their order - their top four are excellent but they've been let down twice in a row now)
I remain surprised many felt England's 310 was under par.  Always thought this pitch had more for the bowlers than a lot of the placid ODI pitches we've seen lately : certainly Plunkett seems to have found it !

Hope England don't switch off for the "dead" game with Australia. Winning is a nice habit to maintain...

Morgan said in his post-match he was disappointed not to get to 340. I don't think 310 was necessarily under-par, but the platform we had we should have pushed for it.

England have a habit of losing the "dead rubber" at the end of series, so I'm not too hopeful for the Australia game. Hopefully they don't switch off because it's easier to keep winning then switch off and switch back on!

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