Crusaders v British & Irish Lions, 10 June

by **George Carlin** Wed 07 Jun 2017, 7:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Crusaders v British & Irish Lions, 10 June - Page 7 Crusad10

Crusaders v British & Irish Lions, 10 June - Page 7 Lions_10

Crusaders v British & Irish Lions
10 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Rugby League Park, Christchurch

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

2 June 1993: Canterbury 10 - 28 British & Irish Lions

28 June 1983: Canterbury 22 - 20 British & Irish Lions

25 June 1977: Canterbury 13 - 14 British & Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Crusaders
I Dagg, S Tamanivalu, J Goodhue, D Havili, G Bridge, R Mo'unga, B Hall, J Moody, C Taylor, O Franks, L Romano, S Whitelock (capt), H Bedwell-Curtis, M Todd, J Taufua.

Replacements: B Funnell, W Crockett, M Alaalatoa, Q Strange, J Brown, M Drummond, M Hunt, T Bateman.

British & Irish Lions
S Hogg; G North, J Davies; B Te'o, L Williams; O Farrell; C Murray; M Vunipola, J George, T Furlong; AW Jones (capt), G Kruis; P O'Mahony, S O'Brien, T Faletau

Replacements: K Owens, J McGrath, D Cole, M Itoje, CJ Stander, R Webb, J Sexton, A Watson

C. PREVIEW

by eirebilly Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:29 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Massive win for the Lions - we made one of the best club teams in the world look very ordinary.

Our attack is still non-existent but defence was superb and our forwards really took it to them.

I think the attack looked ok today in fairness. Plenty tried that did not come off but there was definitely attacking intent there.

by Taylorman Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:31 am

Griff wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Not far away now and the Lions are about to face the best side in NZ rugby at the moment and believe me, this is a very good side. There aren't as many star names like Barrett or the Smiths but across the entire 23 there are few weaknesses.

They have the best pack in NZ and have won matches they probably should have lost, and are practised, and as yet unbeaten.

With the Lions combinations not clearly obvious the Lions concept is going to come under the heat with this match, the contrast doesn't get much more stark in terms of prep for the match.

In short, without established combinations individuals are going to have to stand up, big time. They're going to need at least five or six players playing THE best rugby of their careers to have a chance.

So far, not one Lion has achieved that in the two matches to date. The ability to attack the gain line, to put players through or around is almost benign so far.

Going through the motions, doing the basics ain't going to be enough here, the Saders will attack with everything they've got, from everywhere so a good defence over 80 is an understatement.

If Farrell and Murray have poor games, I'd expect a 20-25 point win to the Saders, that's how tough this is going to be.

Off day for the 'Saders?!

No, well deserved. Saders got a lesson in what's important. Lions applied more pressure than they've seen from anyone this year, evidenced by the number of dropped balls, poor passes. Lions got up, relentlessly all day.

Not the prettiest of sides, but good to see we now have a series, and I'm not so upset with my Blues being the only victors so far thumbsup

by BamBam Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:33 am

Good to get back on track. Murray, Farrell, Kruis, SOB and Faletau the pick of the players for me

Backs still need some work, I can't help thinking JJ would have turned a couple of those half breaks made by Teo/Davies from 13 into quality passes to the wings for run ins. After how good Sexton / Farrell looked together, I really hope he's given a chance outside them

Difficult to tell much about the scrum, the referee was all over the place but the front row put themselves about well in the loose, Kruis dominated the line out and I think POM showed his value in that area.

It still looks like it's AWJ and one other at lock, and it's a mistake for me. Others have praised him on here but all I saw was him getting knocked back in the tackle, dragging ball carriers down after they've already got past the gain line and not really hitting rucks with any real power (see him trying to dislodge Taufua early on)

Pair Kruis and Itoje with today's front row and I think we'll have a real platform to start from

by eirebilly Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:34 am

If JD2 is injured for the next match, I would start Te'o at 12 and Henshaw at 13. I would like to see Henshaw at 13 but I am sure Gatland will go with JJ which is also a good option. Just hope JD2 and Hogg are ok.

by 123456789 Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:36 am

Really liked the Sexton-Farrell axis. Te-o is one good pair of hands away from a half decent rugby player. Hogg would have a had field day on kick return as the Crusader kick chase wasn't brilliant. The pack was very strong, North played well, Williams is struggling but not in a way that suggests he's out of his depth but rather out of form and he's also getting pretty awful service.
They're still not world beaters and they're still massive underdogs but in the Murray-Sexton-Farrell 9-10-12 they've got a template for how they can potentially beat the All Blacks. Personally off of that in the backs I'd like to see Henshaw at 13 because despite Te-o playing extremely well so far his hands just aren't sticking. I'd bring Hogg in for his broken field running, although we've not really seen it yet and put Watson to the wing and have North on the other. I think the team today is about 2 or 3 players off the test side, those 2-3 players need to be try scoring threats Hogg and Henshaw or maybe Joseph provide that.

by RuggerRadge2611 Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:36 am

Yeah AWJ was tremendous today. He Put in a great shift and appears to be over his injury. I also felt the backrow had a great game too. Faletau a bit quieter but he went about his business with ruthless efficiency.

Obviously as a member of the FRU, huge shout out to Furlong in the tight and in the loose, he had a great game.

by Guest Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:38 am

The Lions played NH rugby really well today

Enjoy the win

by RuggerRadge2611 Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:43 am

ebop wrote:The Lions played NH rugby really well today

Enjoy the win

Yep and the Crusaders played SH rugby really badly today.

Revel in the defeat.

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:45 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Sore loser Taylorman. As usual

Taylorman hates seeing his team lose, as we all do, but I wouldn't call him a sore loser.

by nathan Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:50 am

Justin Marshall saying it's stereotypical of kiwis to blame the ref in a loss

by BamBam Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:51 am

Also, our captain is the 3rd best openside flanker on tour based on the first 3 games

by Guest Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:51 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
ebop wrote:The Lions played NH rugby really well today

Enjoy the win

Yep and the Crusaders played SH rugby really badly today.

Revel in the defeat.

Nah the Lions played NH rugby really well. That was the difference. They were just better today. Not surprising the Lions turned up tonight given they lost to the Blues. After all the talk about the Lions scrum dominating in NZ I have to say they've been a bit underwhelming, despite the queer French referee having a field day tonight.

by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:52 am

It's part of the kiwi character , they just hate to lose; it's one of the reasons they have been Numero uno for so long. They don't have good losers, just sore losers. Not that they lose very often.

by marty2086 Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:52 am

nathan wrote:Justin Marshall saying it's stereotypical of kiwis to blame the ref in a loss

I thought he meant the bitching and moaning in general is Whistle

by No 7&1/2 Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:52 am

Any chance of Gatland trying Sexton Farrell Joseph please?! Good pack performance again. Slowly getting better.

by marty2086 Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:54 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Any chance of Gatland trying Sexton Farrell Joseph please?! Good pack performance again. Slowly getting better.

It'll be Sexton Farrell and Payne if he's fit

by Guest Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:54 am

Honestly though

2 tries in 3 games, is that a worry?

by Guest Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:56 am

Just read Ugo Monye saying 'Warrenball is dead, the Lions are alive'. This comes on the back of Matt Dawson saying that he played under 'Warrenball' and he certainly hasn't seen Warrenball on this tour so far.

Thoughts?

by nathan Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:57 am

Not really epob, they are creating the chances which is the main thing. Finishing them off will come with time

by Guest Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:58 am

Yeah there were some good opportunities to be fair

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:01 am

Interesting Gatland wanted Watson to have a go for the line instead of passing to Sexton. I thought the same, but you could almost hear Watson thinking out loud about being a team player.

by The Great Aukster Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:03 am

Farrell had a masterful game at 10, but it is patently clear why Jones has to have Ford there for England - Owen doesn't have the speed of thought to exploit overlaps. He is great at a structured game though so Gatland should be trying to play territory and let an English front five maul him a few tries.

by Taylorman Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:04 am

ebop wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
ebop wrote:The Lions played NH rugby really well today

Enjoy the win

Yep and the Crusaders played SH rugby really badly today.

Revel in the defeat.
Nah the Lions played NH rugby really well. That was the difference. They were just better today. Not surprising the Lions turned up tonight given they lost to the Blues. After all the talk about the Lions scrum dominating in NZ I have to say they've been a bit underwhelming, despite the queer French referee having a field day tonight.

Yes the Lions scrum and the ref- we'd be pulling our hair out if we had to put up with that week after week- were disappointing, but the Lions themselves were fantastic. They were heavily criticised before this and that's the real story here.

They stood up when it counted and they've put Hansen on notice that the ABs are going to have to be a lot more accurate than the Saders were. Happy to be wrong on this one, and now the signs are not all pointing the one way for once.

Top effort, look forward to more. clap

by GunsGermsV2 Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:15 am

Dont think the Crusaiders nor the NZ packs are as good as they think they are.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:16 am

I still doubt he'd go with Farrell as Sexton marty.

by Poorfour Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:21 am

I'd agree that Kruis, the back row, Murray, Farrell and Sexton went well. Te'o was good but communication with Williams was poor - though Williams overran the passes from several players so I am inclined to lay at least some of the blame with him.

Watson I thought did very well. AWJ was better, as was Hogg though it was a shame to see him go off so early. North was fine but didn't seem to have much involvement.

My main worry on this evidence is the front row. Yes, they won a few penalties, but all from Crusaders infringements at or before the engage. In the few scrums where the ball got put in, the Crusaders won penalties or had a significant edge. Even having George (who was good in the loose and threw well to Kruis but less so to the less familiar receivers) alongside him didn't help Mako. I don't think we've got the right combination yet. I would like to see Marler, George and Cole at some point, or Marler, George and Sinckler (who's not fully baked as a scrummager but has been going well enough so far).

by Guest Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:22 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Dont think the Crusaiders nor the NZ packs are as good as they think they are.

You mean not as good as a team that has the luxury of rotating the pack with a pool of internationals from four NH nations that pride themselves on their packs. Is that what you mean guns?

by Guest Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:28 am

Yeah Poorfour, thought Watson was lively tonight and seems to have a spark about him. He looks like he can be dangerous.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:29 am

ebop wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
ebop wrote:The Lions played NH rugby really well today

Enjoy the win

Yep and the Crusaders played SH rugby really badly today.

Revel in the defeat.
Nah the Lions played NH rugby really well. That was the difference. They were just better today. Not surprising the Lions turned up tonight given they lost to the Blues. After all the talk about the Lions scrum dominating in NZ I have to say they've been a bit underwhelming, despite the queer French referee having a field day tonight.

The Lions scrum hammered the Blues on Wednesday, it was one way traffic. It's about finding the best combination at this stage though, it'll come.

by Guest Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:33 am

Justin Marshall was lauding Murray tonight. His kicks were spot on. Great player.

by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:34 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
ebop wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
ebop wrote:The Lions played NH rugby really well today

Enjoy the win

Yep and the Crusaders played SH rugby really badly today.

Revel in the defeat.
Nah the Lions played NH rugby really well. That was the difference. They were just better today. Not surprising the Lions turned up tonight given they lost to the Blues. After all the talk about the Lions scrum dominating in NZ I have to say they've been a bit underwhelming, despite the queer French referee having a field day tonight.

The Lions scrum hammered the Blues on Wednesday, it was one way traffic. It's about finding the best combination at this stage though, it'll come.

Think you need to be a little more careful with your terminology ebop

by **LondonTiger** Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:43 am

Murray was excellent and surely nailed on for the tests. Farrell not far behind. Te'o showed up well but his hands let him down and we need players offering support to hi breaks. I can see those 3 being the 9/10/12 axis.

AWJ's leadership was good, and you could see he was a classy player, but an unfit one. He was labouring around the field and made some messages because of it.

Biggest worry is the amount of chances we continue to blow.

by emack2 Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:44 am

Good win for Lions ,puts things back on track thumbsup

by Guest Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:49 am

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
ebop wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
ebop wrote:The Lions played NH rugby really well today

Enjoy the win

Yep and the Crusaders played SH rugby really badly today.

Revel in the defeat.
Nah the Lions played NH rugby really well. That was the difference. They were just better today. Not surprising the Lions turned up tonight given they lost to the Blues. After all the talk about the Lions scrum dominating in NZ I have to say they've been a bit underwhelming, despite the queer French referee having a field day tonight.

The Lions scrum hammered the Blues on Wednesday, it was one way traffic. It's about finding the best combination at this stage though, it'll come.

Think you need to be a little more careful with your terminology ebop

Fair dues but I'm using the word in its truest sense. The referee was strange and odd in some scrum decisions.

by alfie Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:07 pm

Massive improvement on previous efforts by the Lions. (I didn't see the midweek game but going on reports - as well as the result Smile

)

Still work to do and obviously the Tests are going to be a whole other level of challenge ; but really only the finishing that disappointed today.
Of course you don't want to be butchering chances with the last pass - but I'd rather have that being what lets you down in the warm ups than not creating anything... Seems to me something that is more likely to be fixed when its really needed.
All up I'm encouraged by this display.

by eirebilly Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:08 pm

Sexton must have a break next game, he has played a significant part in 3 matches in one week. That is a hell of a lot.

I thought SOB and POM did very well today as well. Non stop action from them. Faletau was extremely strong and more than cemented his start.

The pack fronted up very well but I was also slightly confused by the penalties they won, when clean ball went in, they went back badly so I feel they lived a charmed life there.

Watson took his chance at 15 very well and I would not be surprised to see him get another shot there as Williams looks off form and not sure how Hogg is.

I would also like to see Nowell and North as the wingers. Nowell was not as bad as many were saying aginst the blues and in my opinion is a top quality winger.

by marty2086 Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:12 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I still doubt he'd go with Farrell as Sexton marty.

He'd be crazy not to...I see your point now

I think going with them offers a lot more for the Lions, territory will be key against the ABs and with two kicking options you can go either side of the ruck and with Murray and 9 with his box kicking it can be a real weapon

I said it when Ireland played the ABs in November, drop goals can be a real weapon against them and with Sexton and Farrell you can give yourself an option in the pocket and at first receiver and keep the defence on their toes

by RuggerRadge2611 Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:13 pm

eirebilly wrote:Sexton must have a break next game, he has played a significant part in 3 matches in one week. That is a hell of a lot.

I thought SOB and POM did very well today as well. Non stop action from them. Faletau was extremely strong and more than cemented his start.

The pack fronted up very well but I was also slightly confused by the penalties they won, when clean ball went in, they went back badly so I feel they lived a charmed life there.

Watson took his chance at 15 very well and I would not be surprised to see him get another shot there as Williams looks off form and not sure how Hogg is.

I would also like to see Nowell and North as the wingers. Nowell was not as bad as many were saying aginst the blues and in my opinion is a top quality winger.

The only other player on tour with experience at 10 in an international is Laidlaw I think. Biggar is unlikely to be fit, I have a horrible feeling that Hogg's tour could be over and Farrell and Sexton both played today.

It's a critical problem IMO.

by marty2086 Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:15 pm

eirebilly wrote:Sexton must have a break next game, he has played a significant part in 3 matches in one week. That is a hell of a lot.

I thought SOB and POM did very well today as well. Non stop action from them. Faletau was extremely strong and more than cemented his start.

The pack fronted up very well but I was also slightly confused by the penalties they won, when clean ball went in, they went back badly so I feel they lived a charmed life there.

Watson took his chance at 15 very well and I would not be surprised to see him get another shot there as Williams looks off form and not sure how Hogg is.

I would also like to see Nowell and North as the wingers. Nowell was not as bad as many were saying aginst the blues and in my opinion is a top quality winger.

Faletau looks like he's added some beef recently and gives him a bit more power when he's running with the ball, back row is going to hard to call but Watson definitely took his chance

Nowell though was poor against the Blues, theres no doubting his quality and hopefully will get another run out but he needs to really shine

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:19 pm

The scrum was refereed very well today, engaging early and boring in doesn't mean domination it means you're cheating to get an advantage. The moment Furlong popped up you knew it was entirely legal but those in black do like to whinge, sore losers indeed.

by eirebilly Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:21 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Sexton must have a break next game, he has played a significant part in 3 matches in one week. That is a hell of a lot.

I thought SOB and POM did very well today as well. Non stop action from them. Faletau was extremely strong and more than cemented his start.

The pack fronted up very well but I was also slightly confused by the penalties they won, when clean ball went in, they went back badly so I feel they lived a charmed life there.

Watson took his chance at 15 very well and I would not be surprised to see him get another shot there as Williams looks off form and not sure how Hogg is.

I would also like to see Nowell and North as the wingers. Nowell was not as bad as many were saying aginst the blues and in my opinion is a top quality winger.

The only other player on tour with experience at 10 in an international is Laidlaw I think. Biggar is unlikely to be fit, I have a horrible feeling that Hogg's tour could be over and Farrell and Sexton both played today.

It's a critical problem IMO.

I would have no issue with Laidlaw at 10. I always thought he was a better 10 than 9.

Decisions have to be made quickly, if Biggar is unfit then another 10 has to be called in and I truly hope that is Russell.

by Guest Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:23 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The scrum was refereed very well today, engaging early and boring in doesn't mean domination it means you're cheating to get an advantage. The moment Furlong popped up you knew it was entirely legal but those in black do like to whinge, sore losers indeed.

Lol, you sound like an ungracious winner

Way to go champ

clap

by marty2086 Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:24 pm

ebop wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:The scrum was refereed very well today, engaging early and boring in doesn't mean domination it means you're cheating to get an advantage. The moment Furlong popped up you knew it was entirely legal but those in black do like to whinge, sore losers indeed.
Lol, you sound like an ungracious winner

Way to go champ

An area of expertise for a Kiwi Whistle

by Guest Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:25 pm

Adam Jones (former prop) commenting about the scrum on Twitter during the game. Is this why we got the penalties:

"can see moody angling in, our 3 needs to stay squarer on him. Ref isn't happy with the crusaders lean on the bind"

by Guest Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:31 pm

marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:The scrum was refereed very well today, engaging early and boring in doesn't mean domination it means you're cheating to get an advantage. The moment Furlong popped up you knew it was entirely legal but those in black do like to whinge, sore losers indeed.
Lol, you sound like an ungracious winner

Way to go champ

An area of expertise for a Kiwi

Beg to differ marty. We could be much worse except for our inherently humble nature Wink

by boomeranga Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:50 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Farrell had a masterful game at 10, but it is patently clear why Jones has to have Ford there for England - Owen doesn't have the speed of thought to exploit overlaps. He is great at a structured game though so Gatland should be trying to play territory and let an English front five maul him a few tries.

I thought so as well. The will to win is so clear when you watch him. I find him difficult to like but easy to appreciate. Teo was useful as well. He goes forward relentlessly which is valuable against NZ sides. Good to see the Lions win.

by marty2086 Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:50 pm

ebop wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:The scrum was refereed very well today, engaging early and boring in doesn't mean domination it means you're cheating to get an advantage. The moment Furlong popped up you knew it was entirely legal but those in black do like to whinge, sore losers indeed.
Lol, you sound like an ungracious winner

Way to go champ

An area of expertise for a Kiwi
Beg to differ marty. We could be much worse except for our inherently humble nature.

I've heard two Kiwis today saying the exact opposite

by Guest Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:53 pm

marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:The scrum was refereed very well today, engaging early and boring in doesn't mean domination it means you're cheating to get an advantage. The moment Furlong popped up you knew it was entirely legal but those in black do like to whinge, sore losers indeed.
Lol, you sound like an ungracious winner

Way to go champ

An area of expertise for a Kiwi
Beg to differ marty. We could be much worse except for our inherently humble nature.

I've heard two Kiwis today saying the exact opposite

Sure, in a display of humility

No one is denying the Lions were better

Soak up the win

thumbsup

by brennomac Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:53 pm

I know we shouldn't be parochial when talking about the Lions, but very satisfied with Irish contribution today, thought Murray was motm, Sexton finally putting poor form behind him, POM and SOB superb at 6 and 7, Tadhg good stint and CJ and Jack McG did well off the bench.

Super defense from Lions, but seriously disappointed with Crusaders. When choked by rush defence, didn't seem to have any plan b. more clinical finishing needed but all in all good stuff al around. Any news on Hogg, looked very nasty

by Guest Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:54 pm

boomeranga wrote:Good to see the Lions win.

That's the antipodean spirit ranga

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