Dragons Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Too early?!  Never mind.

So, big changes are afoot at Dave Parade.  There's been loads of arguments about the best way forward, the pros and cons of regional v club rugby, and I'm sure there'll be many more to come.  But what's done is done and, for now, we have a pro team at Dave Parade to support next year.  A few weeks ago even that was in jeopardy.  So moving forward...

Ownership:
So the WRU has taken over the reigns.  I'll add updates here as and when we know them, but the formal split from Newport RFC should mean 'cleaner' or more straightforward to understand revenue streams.  

Pitch:
A new one is being laid as we speak.  This original pitch has been part and parcel of the problems at RP for a number of years.  A BBC report showed it to be up there as the most used pitch pro pitch in the UK.  Something had to be done.  A fully synthetic pitch was mooted and preferred by some, a al Blues, Saracens, Glasgow, et al.  However, FA rules state that football clubs cannot play on these surfaces (probably since the AstroTurf days of Luton Town, etc.).  So it looks like a compromise has been agreed with a 4g semi-synthetic pitch, like those used by many football clubs, Swansea City/Ospreys, Millennium Stadium, Aviva Stadium, Twickenham, Murrayfield, Cardiff City stadium, etc.  A weave of synthetic fibres and real grass meaning it's easier to maintain, less prone to weather damage, but still sort of like the real thing.  This will be a real move forward and should improve the product on the field.  A bit.

Personnel:
New coach - Huw Jackman.  Comes with a good reputation for hard work and attacking rugby.  Good stuff.
Gavin Henson - I'm happy with this.  Despite his knockers, so to speak, he is still a classy club player and performed well in the English Prem with Bristol, when not injured.  Which is the crux of the issue.  Hopefully we can keep him fit for an extended run of games.
Zane Kirchner - On paper a quality player but as with a lot of good players, when they are in the twighlight of their careers and join a 'lesser' club more often than not they do not perform as expected.  Let's hope he is an exception to the rule.  Did Jackman and Kirchner play together at Leinster?


Transfers In:

Bernard 'No Pudding' Jackman - coach
Gavin Henson
Zane Kirchner

Transfers Out:
Shaun Knight
Nick Crosswell
Tom Prydie
Geraint Rhys Jones
Darren Harris
Craig Mitchell


New Badge:

[Cardiff Dave]

Playmaster by Tarkett Sports....

http://www.dessosports.com/hybrid-grass
http://www.dessosports.com/sites/default/files/uploads/files/leaflet_pm_eng_digital.pdf

Qu - did drainage probs begin after new stand was built? Coz similar happened at CAP after the Millstone was built. All that heavy lifting machinery squashing everything underfoot. Might've damaged underground pipes etc.

[GavinDragon]

Can I just applaud the title of the thread

[GavinDragon]

As I have already said, expect no further significant signings this year.

BJ has said that he wants to give the existing crop a chance to prove themselves. This, added to the fact that the new board has yet to be decided upon (and that could involve personnel with new investment), means that any expected additions will be for next season. All the very best talent has been signed for this year anyway.

Expect change to RP, the decor, the quality of the provisions. Expect to see a team who no longer have the excuse that the support they receive as rugby players is below par. In short, expect to see a no excuses culture and stepping stones being laid for the future. Judge the next two year's recruitment as a measure of the success of the change in ownership and branding.

[Mrped]

Sorry Gav you are going to clarify what you mean. Your comments are deeply disturbing, have you any new information beyond that given to us current supporters/members?.

The content of your first two paragraphs is well documented and says nothing that no-one doesn't already know.

Your third paragraph however is just complete meaningless drivel. You say, expect changes to the RP decor, is it going to be painted a different colour? What new provisions are going to be provided?

The team has never given the excuse that the support they receive has been below par. They have always talked about how the Rodney parade effect has given them an advantage, and in your parlance allowed them to punch above their weight.

Then you roll the cowpat tombola: no excuses culture; stepping stones for the future; recruitment as a measure of the success of the change of ownership and branding, etc. These aren't the words of the mightily impressive Bernard Jackman. Where is this rubbish coming from?

[GavinDragon]

Jeez had a few last night have mrped?

I just meant that there will be investment in the ground over and above what is being spent on pitch.

When I meant support, I didnt mean us fans, I meant the number of coaches, physio's etc

The last comment is my opinion; that given how late in the day the deal was done, we will only be able to tell is the new venture has been a success after a season or two. If for example private investment comes in along the WRU and we were able to go and marquee players or bring a TF back EF, and of the facilities at RP are significantly improved, then, IMO, that would show it to be a success because I would imagine we would be higher than 10th in the league as a result.

Not sure what I said to require the aggressiveness of your response, but hey ho

[Guest]

I agree with Gav. It's late in the season/off season so we can't really expect a raft of new signings and instant success. They can improve RP in the off season though, as Gav alludes to. And the behind the scenes staff. That's the sort of thing that will improve things in the medium terms, so as Gav says perhaps this coming season will be a bit early to judge success/impact of the new regime.

[Guest]

Can I just applaud the title of the thread

Haha! Thanks. It was 'WRU Dragons' to start with but with the new name and logo without Gwent in it,, but insistence that everything is still Gwent themed and focused, thought it was apt!

[GavinDragon]

Name of the legal business is WRU Gwent Region Ltd

[Guest]

I don't want to keep going on about it, and it's impossible to please everyone, but I liked 'Gwent' in the title. It gave us a place on the map, an identify of some sort, and differentiated us from the other Dragons such as Catalan, Wrexham (I think?), Celtic Dragons netball, Glamorgan Dragons cricket, etc, etc. but hey ho. With all of the other 'Dragons' teams they have a prefix to tell people where they're from. Not that important really, but I like to know where a sports team is from and who they represent (be it village, town, city, country, university, company, etc).

[ScarletSpiderman]

Griff, does the lack of pefix mean that The Dragons will be the first team that people think of when the name is said, or that they will be? Could be a case of confidence in the brand being high enough that you don't need to tell people where your geographical base is as you'll be the major Dragons side and the rest need the name to tell others that they are not you

[GavinDragon]

Look, the side is called the Dragons and it is the Gwent region's pro team.

[Guest]

Griff, does the lack of pefix mean that The Dragons will be the first team that people think of when the name is said, or that they will be?  Could be a case of confidence in the brand being high enough that you don't need to tell people where your geographical base is as you'll be the major Dragons side and the rest need the name to tell others that they are not you

Could be, SS! That's a nice way to look at it.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Griff, does the lack of pefix mean that The Dragons will be the first team that people think of when the name is said, or that they will be?  Could be a case of confidence in the brand being high enough that you don't need to tell people where your geographical base is as you'll be the major Dragons side and the rest need the name to tell others that they are not you

Could be, SS! That's a nice way to look at it.

That whole Postitve Mental Attitude stuff boss.

[Guest]

Griff, does the lack of pefix mean that The Dragons will be the first team that people think of when the name is said, or that they will be?  Could be a case of confidence in the brand being high enough that you don't need to tell people where your geographical base is as you'll be the major Dragons side and the rest need the name to tell others that they are not you

Could be, SS! That's a nice way to look at it.

That whole Postitve Mental Attitude stuff boss.

[mikey_dragon]

Well Bernardo has been released and as he's a South African we could be one of the teams he joins.

[PhilBB]

So the WRU claim ""Our ambition is to sell Gwent produced products and engage with Gwent-based service providers." and then give the £750k pitch contract to a firm from Leicester.

Yeah, my two mates who are gardeners should have got the gig.

Seriously though, it's specialist stuff. Is there a Gwent based 4g pitch company?

http://www.southwalessportsgrounds.co.uk if only they were based in Magor.

[PhilBB]

Look, the side is called the Dragons and it is the Gwent region's pro team.

But don't call it Gwent, despite it being so Gwent, as that wouldn't be inclusive.

Or something.

[munkian]

Christ, Cardiff Blues must be running like clockwork with all their fans posting on the Dragon's thread.

[PhilBB]

I agree with Gav. It's late in the season/off season so we can't really expect a raft of new signings and instant success. They can improve RP in the off season though, as Gav alludes to. And the behind the scenes staff. That's the sort of thing that will improve things in the medium terms, so as Gav says perhaps this coming season will be a bit early to judge success/impact of the new regime.

What Gavin isn't telling you is that the clubhouse has been shut because it is near to being condemned, that Newport RFC's memorabilia is now stored in bags (somewhere), that Newport RFC's address is now no longer in Newport (thanks to the WRU) and that the investment in the ground will be to bring it up to the bare minimum standard dictated by the League.

For the past few years, Rodney Parade has failed the minimum standards of the PrO'12 in terms of supporter and player facilities. Whilst Gavin makes it look like the WRU are investing in the long term facilities, what they are evidently doing is reaching the minimum they are required to do. You can't have a Union owned facility failing the basic requirements, can you?

Furthermore, the WRU are trying to be duplicitous with their investment in the Dragons by using staff already on the WRU payroll to work with the set up. See the legal team, see the marketing team, see the role of some of the coaching staff. Whilst the RSA dictates "fair and equitable treatment of all teams", putting a value on the time of WRU employees working in this way is very difficult, despite their presence clearly offering an advantage to WRU Dragons.

Add in to that the way Jackman was appointed by pushing Jones out. As Jones has moved to a WRU role, there is no redundancy / sacking payment that would have been due had the WRU not owned the Dragons.

So, the two sides to the 'investment' aren't as clear cut as a) is being played out in public and b) as Gavin is trying to hide with his 'investment' stuff.

[munkian]

Because Gavin is on the payroll and not a volunteer of a supporter's club ffs

[PhilBB]

Because Gavin is on the payroll and not a volunteer of a supporter's club ffs

Very monkey boy.

What's your point? Gavin is pushing misleading propaganda from the DOSC. His stuff about the Dragons representing the heritage of every Gwent club, written on Twitter, was pure (and insulting) BS.

So, again, what point are you trying to make in this schoolgirl sniping fashion?

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Because Gavin is on the payroll and not a volunteer of a supporter's club ffs

Very monkey boy.

What's your point? Gavin is pushing misleading propaganda from the DOSC. His stuff about the Dragons representing the heritage of every Gwent club, written on Twitter, was pure (and insulting) BS.

So, again, what point are you trying to make in this schoolgirl sniping fashion?

Speaking of schoolboy sniping ...


Pot, kettle, ...

[munkian]

Because Gavin is on the payroll and not a volunteer of a supporter's club ffs

Very monkey boy.

What's your point? Gavin is pushing misleading propaganda from the DOSC. His stuff about the Dragons representing the heritage of every Gwent club, written on Twitter, was pure (and insulting) BS.

So, again, what point are you trying to make in this schoolgirl sniping fashion?

Speaking of schoolboy sniping ...


Pot, kettle, ...

Indeed.

My first question would be why do you even care ? In what way does it personally affect you apart from a chance to score a few points with your fans on twitter ?

[Guest]

I agree with Gav. It's late in the season/off season so we can't really expect a raft of new signings and instant success. They can improve RP in the off season though, as Gav alludes to. And the behind the scenes staff. That's the sort of thing that will improve things in the medium terms, so as Gav says perhaps this coming season will be a bit early to judge success/impact of the new regime.

What Gavin isn't telling you is that the clubhouse has been shut because it is near to being condemned, that Newport RFC's memorabilia is now stored in bags (somewhere), that Newport RFC's address is now no longer in Newport (thanks to the WRU) and that the investment in the ground will be to bring it up to the bare minimum standard dictated by the League.

For the past few years, Rodney Parade has failed the minimum standards of the PrO'12 in terms of supporter and player facilities. Whilst Gavin makes it look like the WRU are investing in the long term facilities, what they are evidently doing is reaching the minimum they are required to do. You can't have a Union owned facility failing the basic requirements, can you?

Furthermore, the WRU are trying to be duplicitous with their investment in the Dragons by using staff already on the WRU payroll to work with the set up. See the legal team, see the marketing team, see the role of some of the coaching staff. Whilst the RSA dictates "fair and equitable treatment of all teams", putting a value on the time of WRU employees working in this way is very difficult, despite their presence clearly offering an advantage to WRU Dragons.

Add in to that the way Jackman was appointed by pushing Jones out. As Jones has moved to a WRU role, there is no redundancy / sacking payment that would have been due had the WRU not owned the Dragons.

So, the two sides to the 'investment' aren't as clear cut as a) is being played out in public and b) as Gavin is trying to hide with his 'investment' stuff.

Not sure what all that has to do with the point I was making when agreeing with Gav, I.e. That on-field success is not to be expected straight away as it is the off-season stuff that they can and are concentrating on first and foremost, and also that it was a bit late in the season to be in the market for decent new recruits as most have already been snapped up by now.

[PhilBB]

Indeed.

My first question would be why do you even care ? In what way does it personally affect you apart from a chance to score a  few points with your fans on twitter ?

Because it's 25% of the supply chain to Team Wales
Because any unfair WRU influence over Dragons negatively affects my club

Those are bloody obvious answers and your own interpretation of it shows how clueless you are.

Do you have a second question?

[PhilBB]

Speaking of schoolboy sniping ...


Pot, kettle, ...

Just a statement of fact.

[PhilBB]

Not sure what all that has to do with the point I was making when agreeing with Gav, I.e. That on-field success is not to be expected straight away as it is the off-season stuff that they can and are concentrating on first and foremost, and also that it was a bit late in the season to be in the market for decent new recruits as most have already been snapped up by now.

Without any private backing, and I know that Phillips was budgeting for a nigh on 7 figure sum for this, there will be no on-field success as they won't be able to recruit.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Speaking of schoolboy sniping ...


Pot, kettle, ...

Just a statement of fact.

What, calling someone a monkey while criticising them for name calling?

Just pointing out the hypocrisy ...

[munkian]

Indeed.

My first question would be why do you even care ? In what way does it personally affect you apart from a chance to score a  few points with your fans on twitter ?

Because it's 25% of the supply chain to Team Wales
Because any unfair WRU influence over Dragons negatively affects my club

Those are bloody obvious answers and your own interpretation of it shows how clueless you are.

Do you have a second question?

Just wondered what your agenda was.

Second question would probably get me another ban so I'm good x

[Guest]

Not sure what all that has to do with the point I was making when agreeing with Gav, I.e. That on-field success is not to be expected straight away as it is the off-season stuff that they can and are concentrating on first and foremost, and also that it was a bit late in the season to be in the market for decent new recruits as most have already been snapped up by now.

Without any private backing, and I know that Phillips was budgeting for a nigh on 7 figure sum for this, there will be no on-field success as they won't be able to recruit.

Yes that's pretty obvious. So they're not doing that this summer, which we said, and instead are concentrating on the stadium and behind the scenes stuff. Which we also said.

[PhilBB]

What, calling someone a monkey while criticising them for name calling?

Just pointing out the hypocrisy ...

You've misunderstood, Pete. "Munkian" has a posting style very similar to that of another Dragons fan "monkey boy" from Gwlad.

[PhilBB]

Indeed.

My first question would be why do you even care ? In what way does it personally affect you apart from a chance to score a  few points with your fans on twitter ?

Because it's 25% of the supply chain to Team Wales
Because any unfair WRU influence over Dragons negatively affects my club

Those are bloody obvious answers and your own interpretation of it shows how clueless you are.

Do you have a second question?

Just wondered what your agenda was.

Second question would probably get me another ban so I'm good  x

Write your second question on Gwlad, then. You can be a bit braver over there.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

What, calling someone a monkey while criticising them for name calling?

Just pointing out the hypocrisy ...

You've misunderstood, Pete. "Munkian" has a posting style very similar to that of another Dragons fan "monkey boy" from Gwlad.

I've met Munkian off-line. I suspect your 2+2 is adding to 5 there

[PhilBB]

What, calling someone a monkey while criticising them for name calling?

Just pointing out the hypocrisy ...

You've misunderstood, Pete. "Munkian" has a posting style very similar to that of another Dragons fan "monkey boy" from Gwlad.

I've met Munkian off-line. I suspect your 2+2 is adding to 5 there

Similar posting style. I doubt he's Lee.

[munkian]

What, calling someone a monkey while criticising them for name calling?

Just pointing out the hypocrisy ...

You've misunderstood, Pete. "Munkian" has a posting style very similar to that of another Dragons fan "monkey boy" from Gwlad.

I've met Munkian off-line. I suspect your 2+2 is adding to 5 there

Similar posting style. I doubt he's Lee.

Or am I ?...

[Cardiff Dave]

Christ, Cardiff Blues must be running like clockwork with all their fans posting on the Dragon's thread.

Can't beat a good wind up.

[Cardiff Dave]

Griff, does the lack of pefix mean that The Dragons will be the first team that people think of when the name is said, or that they will be?  Could be a case of confidence in the brand being high enough that you don't need to tell people where your geographical base is as you'll be the major Dragons side and the rest need the name to tell others that they are not you

Could be, SS! That's a nice way to look at it.

That whole Postitve Mental Attitude stuff boss.

Gwent-centricity mun. Positively 'lectric.

[Pot Hale]

Look, the side is called the Dragons and it is the Gwent region's pro team.

Ah I get it now - it's the Gwent Dragons

Kind of like the Swansea Ospreys, Cardiff Blues and Llanelli Scarlets.

Makes sense now.

[LordDowlais]

Except Gwent is a county not a town or a city.

[PhilBB]

Except Gwent is a county not a town or a city.

WAS a county.

[LordDowlais]

Except Gwent is a county not a town or a city.

WAS a county.

OK was.

It still has a geographical reference as an area of county though.

[PhilBB]

Except Gwent is a county not a town or a city.

WAS a county.

OK was.

It still has a geographical reference as an area of county though.

21 years out of date geographical reference, to the point of it being meaningless.

[LordDowlais]

Except Gwent is a county not a town or a city.

WAS a county.

OK was.

It still has a geographical reference as an area of county though.

21 years out of date geographical reference, to the point of it being meaningless.

So why is the name Gwent being used then ?

I suppose Glamorgan Cricket should change it's name as well ?

[PhilBB]

So why is the name Gwent being used then ?

I suppose Glamorgan Cricket should change it's name as well ?

If Gwent was being used, the team would be called Gwent. The marketing baloney, contradictory and disingenuous as it is, is not really a measure of truth, is it?

Would that be the Glamorgan who have always played home games outside of Glamorgan?

[RiscaGame]

Blinking heck mun.

Anybody bought a season ticket yet? Or are people waiting for this fixtures farce to be sorted out? I'm the latter.

Also, looking forward to going to Northampton finally.

[GavinDragon]

All this Gwent talk makes me feel warm and fuzzy

[ScarletSpiderman]

So why is the name Gwent being used then ?

I suppose Glamorgan Cricket should change it's name as well ?

If Gwent was being used, the team would be called Gwent. The marketing baloney, contradictory and disingenuous as it is, is not really a measure of truth, is it?

Would that be the Glamorgan who have always played home games outside of Glamorgan?

http://www.glamorgancricket.com/cricket/first-xi-fixtures.html

Erm they play about half their games a year outside of Glamorgan.

[PhilBB]

So why is the name Gwent being used then ?

I suppose Glamorgan Cricket should change it's name as well ?

If Gwent was being used, the team would be called Gwent. The marketing baloney, contradictory and disingenuous as it is, is not really a measure of truth, is it?

Would that be the Glamorgan who have always played home games outside of Glamorgan?

http://www.glamorgancricket.com/cricket/first-xi-fixtures.html

Erm they play about half their games a year outside of Glamorgan.

Eh?

[PhilBB]

Blinking heck mun.

Anybody bought a season ticket yet? Or are people waiting for this fixtures farce to be sorted out? I'm the latter.

Also, looking forward to going to Northampton finally.

You should hurry. There's been a massive rush.

[Guest]

So why is the name Gwent being used then ?

I suppose Glamorgan Cricket should change it's name as well ?

If Gwent was being used, the team would be called Gwent. The marketing baloney, contradictory and disingenuous as it is, is not really a measure of truth, is it?

Would that be the Glamorgan who have always played home games outside of Glamorgan?

http://www.glamorgancricket.com/cricket/first-xi-fixtures.html

Erm they play about half their games a year outside of Glamorgan.

Eh?

Away games?

[Sponsored content]