Dragons Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Too early?!  Never mind.

So, big changes are afoot at Dave Parade.  There's been loads of arguments about the best way forward, the pros and cons of regional v club rugby, and I'm sure there'll be many more to come.  But what's done is done and, for now, we have a pro team at Dave Parade to support next year.  A few weeks ago even that was in jeopardy.  So moving forward...

Ownership:
So the WRU has taken over the reigns.  I'll add updates here as and when we know them, but the formal split from Newport RFC should mean 'cleaner' or more straightforward to understand revenue streams.  

Pitch:
A new one is being laid as we speak.  This original pitch has been part and parcel of the problems at RP for a number of years.  A BBC report showed it to be up there as the most used pitch pro pitch in the UK.  Something had to be done.  A fully synthetic pitch was mooted and preferred by some, a al Blues, Saracens, Glasgow, et al.  However, FA rules state that football clubs cannot play on these surfaces (probably since the AstroTurf days of Luton Town, etc.).  So it looks like a compromise has been agreed with a 4g semi-synthetic pitch, like those used by many football clubs, Swansea City/Ospreys, Millennium Stadium, Aviva Stadium, Twickenham, Murrayfield, Cardiff City stadium, etc.  A weave of synthetic fibres and real grass meaning it's easier to maintain, less prone to weather damage, but still sort of like the real thing.  This will be a real move forward and should improve the product on the field.  A bit.

Personnel:
New coach - Huw Jackman.  Comes with a good reputation for hard work and attacking rugby.  Good stuff.
Gavin Henson - I'm happy with this.  Despite his knockers, so to speak, he is still a classy club player and performed well in the English Prem with Bristol, when not injured.  Which is the crux of the issue.  Hopefully we can keep him fit for an extended run of games.
Zane Kirchner - On paper a quality player but as with a lot of good players, when they are in the twighlight of their careers and join a 'lesser' club more often than not they do not perform as expected.  Let's hope he is an exception to the rule.  Did Jackman and Kirchner play together at Leinster?


Transfers In:

Bernard 'No Pudding' Jackman - coach
Gavin Henson
Zane Kirchner

Transfers Out:
Shaun Knight
Nick Crosswell
Tom Prydie
Geraint Rhys Jones
Darren Harris
Craig Mitchell


New Badge:

[munkian]

We've got a two year shirt sponsorship deal with Cuddy

http://www.dragonsrugby.wales/News/Article/50167

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I heard they're sponsoring the Scarlets now too, as well as the Ospreys.

[munkian]

I heard they're sponsoring the Scarlets now too, as well as the Ospreys.

Poor Blues

[munkian]

I heard they're sponsoring the Scarlets now too, as well as the Ospreys.

Poor Blues

Actually, are they still anything to do with the Ospreys ?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Oh I don't know, I just heard they were sponsoring the Scarlets and assumed that was as well as sponsoring the Ospreys. I don't know about the Blues.

[mikey_dragon]

Things are that bad right now that Cuddy won’t even touch the Blues!

[Stone Motif]

I heard they're sponsoring the Scarlets now too, as well as the Ospreys.

Poor Blues

Actually, are they still anything to do with the Ospreys ?

Turks are taking over demolition as far as Swansea are concerned this weekend

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Well this is good:


'Dragons boss Bernard Jackman says Friday’s Guinness PRO14 derby with Cardiff Blues is a “freebie” because of their mammoth 29-man injury list.

'Jackman has had just 25 players in training this week and is hoping that several of his charges pass late fitness tests.

'Wales hopeful Ashton Hewitt is a major doubt – 20/80 according to Jackman – after the wing suffered an ankle strain in the win against Southern Kings last weekend.

'His back three partners Hallam Amos (dead leg) and Carl Meyer (abductor) are also questionable after injuries against the South Africans while Pat Howard (quad) and Adam Hughes (foot) are out.

'Lock Rynard Landman (calf), scrum-half Charlie Davies (concussion) and hooker Gerard Ellis (cheekbone) are still out while on-loan Bristol wing/centre Thretton Palamo has a suspected broken foot suffered against the Kings.

'Scrum-half Tavis Knoyle (knee) and flanker Nic Cudd (knee) are out for the season, full-back Zane Kirchner (shoulder), back row Harrison Keddie (shoulder) and centre Sam Beard (pectoral muscle) are sidelined for three months, hooker Rhys Buckley has a back problem, number eight Robson Blake injured his left collarbone at Ulster and prop Sam Hobbs (knee) and back row forward Lewis Evans (Achilles) are on the comeback trail.

'Including academy players, the Dragons have 29 players unavailable and Jackman is hoping for some better luck when they finish their Blues preparations on Thursday.'


http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/dragons/15573434.Blues_derby_is_a_freebie__claims_Dragons_boss_Jackman_after_revealing_incredible_29_man_injury_crisis/

[Stone Motif]

Well this is good:


'Dragons boss Bernard Jackman says Friday’s Guinness PRO14 derby with Cardiff Blues is a “freebie” because of their mammoth 29-man injury list.

'Jackman has had just 25 players in training this week and is hoping that several of his charges pass late fitness tests.

'Wales hopeful Ashton Hewitt is a major doubt – 20/80 according to Jackman – after the wing suffered an ankle strain in the win against Southern Kings last weekend.

'His back three partners Hallam Amos (dead leg) and Carl Meyer (abductor) are also questionable after injuries against the South Africans while Pat Howard (quad) and Adam Hughes (foot) are out.

'Lock Rynard Landman (calf), scrum-half Charlie Davies (concussion) and hooker Gerard Ellis (cheekbone) are still out while on-loan Bristol wing/centre Thretton Palamo has a suspected broken foot suffered against the Kings.

'Scrum-half Tavis Knoyle (knee) and flanker Nic Cudd (knee) are out for the season, full-back Zane Kirchner (shoulder), back row Harrison Keddie (shoulder) and centre Sam Beard (pectoral muscle) are sidelined for three months, hooker Rhys Buckley has a back problem, number eight Robson Blake injured his left collarbone at Ulster and prop Sam Hobbs (knee) and back row forward Lewis Evans (Achilles) are on the comeback trail.

'Including academy players, the Dragons have 29 players unavailable and Jackman is hoping for some better luck when they finish their Blues preparations on Thursday.'


http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/dragons/15573434.Blues_derby_is_a_freebie__claims_Dragons_boss_Jackman_after_revealing_incredible_29_man_injury_crisis/

I hope Danny got some lube for his leaving gift he is prepared to share

[RiscaGame]

We've got a two year shirt sponsorship deal with Cuddy

http://www.dragonsrugby.wales/News/Article/50167

I'm not sure what has taken so long to announce this, seeing as it has been on the shirt since the Leinster game.

[Stone Motif]

What in the blue hell back three are we going to put out against crisis region the Blues then? Gav to FB, Dozza or AoB to ten? It's flaky...

[RiscaGame]

Wonder if those who have read the news about our squad injuries, now understand why we rotated v Ulster?

[munkian]

Wonder if those who have read the news about our squad injuries, now understand why we rotated v Ulster?

NO IT DEVALUED THE GAME AND NO ONE ELSE HAS EVER DONE IT...EVER !

[Guest]

That's a hell of a lot of injuries after only a handful of games. Shocking. Something to do with the new pitch, I wonder? Surely not. Just bad luck?! We'll be borrowing players soon like in Sunday league sport

[munkian]

That's a hell of a lot of injuries after only a handful of games. Shocking. Something to do with the new pitch, I wonder? Surely not. Just bad luck?! We'll be borrowing players soon like in Sunday league sport

Vicious circle, professional players get injured, we bring in youth and part time amateur replacements against other professional players, then they get injured 'shock'

[Stone Motif]

That's a hell of a lot of injuries after only a handful of games. Shocking. Something to do with the new pitch, I wonder? Surely not. Just bad luck?! We'll be borrowing players soon like in Sunday league sport

Bernard stated in the Argus they aren't used to training hard so they're getting injured in training. He's probably on to something there.

[Stone Motif]

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/15572892.Dragons_pledge_to_keep_giving_youth_a_chance_in_PRO14/

More here, an all. Don't think anyone would deny our guys don't seem to come out of the academy as physically well developed as at other set ups. Didn't Gatland or Howler once say Faletau had never been in an athletic programme until he started appearing for Wales?

[munkian]

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/15572892.Dragons_pledge_to_keep_giving_youth_a_chance_in_PRO14/

More here, an all. Don't think anyone would deny our guys don't seem to come out of the academy as physically well developed as at other set ups. Didn't Gatland or Howler once say Faletau had never been in an athletic programme until he started appearing for Wales?

Not sure on that one, he was in Filton rather than the Dragons academy wasn't he ?

[Stone Motif]

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/15572892.Dragons_pledge_to_keep_giving_youth_a_chance_in_PRO14/

More here, an all. Don't think anyone would deny our guys don't seem to come out of the academy as physically well developed as at other set ups. Didn't Gatland or Howler once say Faletau had never been in an athletic programme until he started appearing for Wales?

Not sure on that one, he was in Filton rather than the Dragons academy wasn't he ?

Granted, but he implication was he hadn't seen a specific s&c programme in all his time at he Dragons. You'd hope even Cross Keys had something like that in place so it raises massive questions over what athletic development has gone on at the Dragons if any.

[munkian]

Long time ago mind, pre Ystrad Mynach, was in the Welsh setup around 2010 ?

[Stone Motif]

Ystrad Mynach has the facilities, who is designing the programmes?

[RiscaGame]

Don't we have Huw Bevan?

[Guest]

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/15572892.Dragons_pledge_to_keep_giving_youth_a_chance_in_PRO14/

More here, an all. Don't think anyone would deny our guys don't seem to come out of the academy as physically well developed as at other set ups. Didn't Gatland or Howler once say Faletau had never been in an athletic programme until he started appearing for Wales?

Not sure on that one, he was in Filton rather than the Dragons academy wasn't he ?

Granted, but he implication was he hadn't seen a specific s&c programme in all his time at he Dragons. You'd hope even Cross Keys had something like that in place so it raises massive questions over what athletic development has gone on at the Dragons if any.

Seems odd because we have a strength and conditioning coach (who I sort of know so know he is there and what he does), and he had previously been the academy strength and conditioning coach. And has also been the WRU Wales U20 coach at 2 world cups. So it would be odd not to have any programmes in place when the same guy has been there for years and done the role with the academy and seniors, and comes from the same organisation as Gatland!

[Stone Motif]

Fair point - but why has Bernard had to come in and beast feck out of them then? He's said publicly that athletically they're not up to the standard required.

[Guest]

Fair point - but why has Bernard had to come in and beast feck out of them then? He's said publicly that athletically they're not up to the standard required.

Fair point yourself! Maybe the S&C coach is sh*t! But my point was that I doubt Faletau would have had no any programme in place when he joined Dragons seniors. S&C is obviously huge - we would have heard about it from one of the ex-players by now if there was nothing in place. Maybe it was the way Gats said it, but he meant more that it wasn't sufficient or appropriate rather than non-existant.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Cardiff Blues: R Williams, A Cuthbert, R Lee-Lo, W Halaholo, T James, J Evans, L Williams (captain), B Thyer, K Dacey, T Filise, S Davies, D Welch, J Navidi, O Robinson, N Williams. Replacements: M Rees, C Domachowski, K Assiratti, G Earle, J Turnbull, T Williams, S Shingler, M Morgan.

Dragons: H Amos, A Hewitt, T Morgan, J Dixon, J Rosser, G Henson, S Pretorius, B Harris, E Dee, L Brown, M Screech, C Hill (captain), J Thomas, O Griffiths, J Benjamin. Replacements: L Belcher, L Garrett, L Fairbrother, J Davies, A Wainwright, O Leonard, A O'Brien, W Talbot-Davies.

[munkian]

Cardiff Blues: R Williams, A Cuthbert, R Lee-Lo, W Halaholo, T James, J Evans, L Williams (captain), B Thyer, K Dacey, T Filise, S Davies, D Welch, J Navidi, O Robinson, N Williams. Replacements: M Rees, C Domachowski, K Assiratti, G Earle, J Turnbull, T Williams, S Shingler, M Morgan.

Dragons: H Amos, A Hewitt, T Morgan, J Dixon, J Rosser, G Henson, S Pretorius, B Harris, E Dee, L Brown, M Screech, C Hill (captain), J Thomas, O Griffiths, J Benjamin. Replacements: L Belcher, L Garrett, L Fairbrother, J Davies, A Wainwright, O Leonard, A O'Brien, W Talbot-Davies.

MINDGAMES FTW !

[munkian]

We have a chance if we get ahead, there's nothing coming from the bench

[dragon4life]

Does anyone know what happened to Nick Macleod??

[munkian]

Does anyone know what happened to Nick Macleod??

I don't actually. Long term injury ?

[profitius]

http://www.offtheball.com/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/Rugby_on_Off_The_Ball/57907/Bernard_Jackman_on_living_with_Dragons

[Guest]

We have a chance if we get ahead, there's nothing coming from the bench

You pretty much got that spot on Munkian. Although we did get ahead, the bench was so weak he didn't want to let any of them on. Nothing from the bench - sad but true. Shame as the first half stuff was brilliant.

To be honest I'm not sure which side of the argument I'm on. I'm leaning more towards siding with Jackman, i.e. the bench is too weak to allow them to come on, but I think fresh legs might have contained the Blues a little so I can understand the criticism of him not bringing guys on. But overall I am happy to buy into his philosophy that we have only a strong first 15+ players and we need to rest them and protect them and target specific games with those 15+ or so players. And then when contracts expire we can look to bring in the players he thinks will be able to make an impact either as a starter or from the bench. Got to think long term, although Dragons fans' patience is now very thin after years of the same!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

By all accounts the Western Mail were cooing over Henson's performance on Friday, but there were at least two occasions, and probably more, when he failed to find touch when we were under the hammer. Just imagine if any other outside half - Angus O'Brien, say, or Rhys Priestland - had done that.

He's been very good for us and it's a very green side without him, but I do hope they've come down pretty hard on him for that. We needed his experience to see us through that pressure in that second half and we didn't get it.

[munkian]

By all accounts the Western Mail were cooing over Henson's performance on Friday, but there were at least two occasions, and probably more, when he failed to find touch when we were under the hammer. Just imagine if any other outside half - Angus O'Brien, say, or Rhys Priestland - had done that.

He's been very good for us and it's a very green side without him, but I do hope they've come down pretty hard on him for that. We needed his experience to see us through that pressure in that second half and we didn't get it.

Noticed that myself, he got himself isolated a few times too but he did setup a lot of the good stuff

[Luckless Pedestrian]

We just needed the ball off the park during that spell and with the wind as strong as it was, he should have sacrificed distance to make sure he found touch. They were just running it straight back at us. We could only scramble for so long. It's a shame because even in the second half, we were winning scrum penalties. With a bit more field position, who knows.

[LordDowlais]

I thought Gav the chav was immense on Friday, and has been pretty good all season. We were all talking about how he could still do a job for Wales. Imagine John Davies had him next to him all this time and not Jamie Roberts, that would make for a sublime midfield.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

A quick word for Adam Warren, who stepped in at the last minute and was as excellent as ever.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

'The Dragons have bolstered their pack with the signing of former Cardiff Blues back row forward James Sheekey, writes Chris Kirwan.

'The 23-year-old, who is 6ft 5ins and 16st 11lbs, has signed a one-year deal at Rodney Parade to help ease a back row injury crisis.'

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/dragons/15585122.Dragons_bolster_back_row_with_Cardiff_s_James_Sheekey/

[RiscaGame]

A quick word for Adam Warren, who stepped in at the last minute and was as excellent as ever.

Very good again.

I suspect he will be in the 23 more now, with his ability to cover centre and wing.

Have always been a fan of his.

[Guest]

Here's a question: assuming everyone was fit (which I know is rare/unlikely), would we have a good chance of putting out a strong XV AND having a bench with some impact that Jackman would be happy to use during the game? In other words do we have a strong 23 if we have a clean bill of health? Or is a strong 15 the best we can hope for until new recruits arrive next summer and beyond? I know it's all subjective so we won't all agreee but I'm hopeful that, with a bit of injury luck, we might get a stronger/more competitive 23 later in the season if we can keep current players fit and some injured ones return.

[Stone Motif]

A quick word for Adam Warren, who stepped in at the last minute and was as excellent as ever.

Very good again.

I suspect he will be in the 23 more now, with his ability to cover centre and wing.

Have always been a fan of his.

Those pr1cks at the Fail rated him 5 out of 10

Exactly he kind of value for money player we need to build depth in the squad

[Stone Motif]

Here's a question: assuming everyone was fit (which I know is rare/unlikely), would we have a good chance of putting out a strong XV AND having a bench with some impact that Jackman would be happy to use during the game? In other words do we have a strong 23 if we have a clean bill of health? Or is a strong 15 the best we can hope for until new recruits arrive next summer and beyond? I know it's all subjective so we won't all agreee but I'm hopeful that, with a bit of injury luck, we might get a stronger/more competitive 23 later in the season if we can keep current players fit and some injured ones return.

Caveated that I don't think we can field a strong 15...

Brown, Dee, Harris
Landman, Hill
Griffiths, Benjamin, Evans
Pretorious, Henson
Warren, Morgan
Amos, Meyer, Hewitt

Fairbrother, ?, ?, Screech, Thomas, Dozza, Dixon, Kirchner is the best we can put out. The glaring weaknesses are obvious...

[RiscaGame]

A quick word for Adam Warren, who stepped in at the last minute and was as excellent as ever.

Very good again.

I suspect he will be in the 23 more now, with his ability to cover centre and wing.

Have always been a fan of his.

Those pr1cks at the Fail rated him 5 out of 10

Exactly he kind of value for money player we need to build depth in the squad

Hardly surprising.

[Guest]

Here's a question: assuming everyone was fit (which I know is rare/unlikely), would we have a good chance of putting out a strong XV AND having a bench with some impact that Jackman would be happy to use during the game? In other words do we have a strong 23 if we have a clean bill of health? Or is a strong 15 the best we can hope for until new recruits arrive next summer and beyond? I know it's all subjective so we won't all agreee but I'm hopeful that, with a bit of injury luck, we might get a stronger/more competitive 23 later in the season if we can keep current players fit and some injured ones return.

Caveated that I don't think we can field a strong 15...

Brown, Dee, Harris
Landman, Hill
Griffiths, Benjamin, Evans
Pretorious, Henson
Warren, Morgan
Amos, Meyer, Hewitt

Fairbrother, ?, ?, Screech, Thomas, Dozza, Dixon, Kirchner is the best we can put out. The glaring weaknesses are obvious...

I tend to agree with most of the above. I'd be tempted to add Cudd and Keddie. Think they can do a job at this level. Maybe Beard? Possibly Blake and Gasson based on potential. But yes looking at the rest of the squad list I think they have to go in a clear out. The likes of Suter, Sweet, Adam Hughes (sorry, been a great servant in the past), Beard (not too bad) Scott Andrews, Buckley, Joe Davies, Tom Davies, Garrett, Knoyle, Hobbs, etc., etc. are just not up to it IMO. 

On a separate note, it would be good if we had a better loan arrangement scheme in Wales. We've had some good players on loan (E.g. Brew) but often we take a punt on a player in full by given them a full contract after showing up well in a trial. But more often than not they're not up to it and have to hang around like a bad smell until their contract expires. But there are a number of good players bench warming at other regions. So if we could get a few players on loan, give them some game time, see how they react to our coaching setup (a big factor) and then offer them a contact IF they can show they're up to the level, I think we'd perhaps see a better distribution of players. But it needs a good reciprocal arrangement for that to work and an acknowledgment that having players sat around not player is not good for their development.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

A quick word for Adam Warren, who stepped in at the last minute and was as excellent as ever.

Very good again.

I suspect he will be in the 23 more now, with his ability to cover centre and wing.

Have always been a fan of his.

Those pr1cks at the Fail rated him 5 out of 10

Exactly he kind of value for money player we need to build depth in the squad

Hardly surprising.

What justification did they give for that? I bet they gave Matthew Morgan a 9.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

'The Dragons have appointed Ben Stirling from Warrington Wolves as their new head of physiotherapy and medical services, writes Chris Kirwan.

'The Rodney Parade region advertised for the role in July and plumped for Stirling, who arrives with an impressive CV from rugby league.

'The former UWIC student was head of physio for the Crusaders, Castleford and the Wales national team before heading to Warrington in 2012, eventually being promoted to head of performance at the Wire in 2015.

'Stirling will be charged with overseeing the physio and medical care of the Dragons squad.'

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/dragons/15587233.Dragons_appoint_new_medical_boss_Stirling_from_Warrington_Wolves/

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Some interesting stuff there as well from Jackman about how much catching up they're having to do in terms of fitness and athleticism.

[RiscaGame]

I think this is a brilliant appointment personally. Was pretty chuffed when I saw his CV. Plus working with athletes from League, might be beneficial in helping our players recover from jackman's new training regime.

[Guest]

Some interesting stuff there as well from Jackman about how much catching up they're having to do in terms of fitness and athleticism.

Yeah, definitely. I've been reading some pretty hilarious comments on the argus online. Some questioning Jackman and asking 'what has he done' so far because we're still behind others in terms of fitness and conditioning. Like it's an overnight thing! It's about systems and structures and programmes, and these things take the right people to lead them and they take time to bear fruit. I always get the impression that previous coaches were working week to week, plugging gaps and hoping to scrape a win or go down gallantly, but without thought for the bigger/long term picture.But with Jackman there seems to be more of a plan in the medium and long term. It helps that he's giving an explanation and reason for his decisions along the way (e.g. Squad rotation).

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I don't know why some of those posters bother on the Argus website, their comments are always critical regardless of the content of the article. If they dislike the Dragons that much, what are they doing reading and commenting all the time? What do they get out of it?

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