Warren Gatland calling up sub-standard players for the Lions - The Backfire

First topic message reminder :

Watching the last 15 minutes of the Hurricanes game.

The Lions up 31-17, Henderson gets a harsh yellow card when he probably should have been kept fresh for the weekend.

If ever a team needed fresh legs its the Lions now.

Joe Marler is absolutely buggered. Best and Dan Cole have put in a mega shift...

Time to put on Launchbury/Jonny Gray, Dylan Hartley, WP Nel etc...

NO!!!!!!!!

Because Gatland has called up sub standard players that he doesn't want to use.

What is he playing at?

80 minutes at the pace of a Super Rugby team is hard for any player and guys like Dell and Russell are NH international standard (Scotland are ranked 5th in the world). To say they cheapen the jersey is an insult.

Russell did not suit Gatlands style of play and was never going to be trusted so it was always a strange decision to call him up. I think the Scottish players (many of whom were overlooked) will be on a mission in February when they come up against a tired Wales team (Warburton and folk are in for a short summer). The other Welsh call-ups are not going to be happy bunnies in camp. Is Gatland actually planning on coaching Wales going forward?

Dell is 3rd choice for Scotland in his position. One for the future but hardly test standard at the moment

TJ wrote:Dell is 3rd choice for Scotland in his position.  One for the future but hardly test standard at the moment

He's been 1st/2nd choice all season and has acquitted himself to well to international rugby - I don't think he can be classed as 3rd choice when Dickinson and Sutherland haven't played all season! I agree he's not test standard but he is certainly good enough to come off the bench for the midweek team with 15 minutes to go.

Hazel Sapling wrote:I think the Scottish players (many of whom were overlooked) will be on a mission in February when they come up against a tired Wales team (Warburton and folk are in for a short summer).  

Warbs will play 2 internationals in the Autumn (at most) and about 4 games for the Blues before the 6 nations start. He'll be well rested.

RDW - I thought the pecking order went Dickinson ( injured) Shrek then Dell.

Certainly good enough for a midweek sub tho and progressing well

So Gatland actually said:

"So much was made about devaluing the jersey, so we made a decision we would try and get through the game with as many of the starting XV as we could."

Shocking, he needs to stand down from the Tour ASAP.

TightHEAD wrote:So Gatland actually said:

"So much was made about devaluing the jersey, so we made a decision we would try and get through the game with as many of the starting XV as we could."

Shocking, he needs to stand down from the Tour ASAP.

I read that. It's truly insane what's happening on this tour.

There's going to be a few interesting autobiographies coming out in the next few years.

Come back, Sir Clive, all is forgiven.

2005 has now been re-branded as a relatively successful tour of NZ.

Cyril wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:So Gatland actually said:

"So much was made about devaluing the jersey, so we made a decision we would try and get through the game with as many of the starting XV as we could."

Shocking, he needs to stand down from the Tour ASAP.

I read that. It's truly insane what's happening on this tour.

There's going to be a few interesting autobiographies coming out in the next few years.

Come back, Sir Clive, all is forgiven.

New book out for Christmas: "The Geographical 6: Life on the Bench".

Although it should be the Geographical 4 I guess, as he capped the Scottish lads to save the earache!

TJ wrote:RDW - I thought the pecking order went Dickinson ( injured) Shrek then Dell.

Certainly good enough for a midweek sub tho and progressing well

I'm getting a bit pernickety here but of his 10 caps he's started 7 suggesting he's been first choice this season! He's played in all but 1 game for Scotland this season.

Dell and Russell claim that no other Scottish player turned down the Lions

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jun/28/lions-geography-six-rugby-union-new-zealand-game-time-finn-russell-alan-dell

Interesting article, RDW. They don't sound very disgruntled at all! In fact they sound like they had a very positive experience. I'm happy to take their word over it, rather than listen to those who say the jersey was devalued. From the horses mouth, and all that.

Griff wrote:Interesting article, RDW.  They don't sound very disgruntled at all!  In fact they sound like they had a very positive experience.  I'm happy to take their word over it, rather than listen to those who say the jersey was devalued.  From the horses mouth, and all that.

There's a few things to note:

- Russell and to a lesser extent Dell are very positive, relaxed characters so they probably would have been OK in the environment.
- They're hardly going to say anything to the contrary just now - wait until the autobiographies come out!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:Interesting article, RDW.  They don't sound very disgruntled at all!  In fact they sound like they had a very positive experience.  I'm happy to take their word over it, rather than listen to those who say the jersey was devalued.  From the horses mouth, and all that.

There's a few things to note:

- Russell and to a lesser extent Dell are very positive, relaxed characters so they probably would have been OK in the environment.
- They're hardly going to say anything to the contrary just now - wait until the autobiographies come out!

Can't you just be happy that they felt they had a good experience? Why always look for the negatives? Would negative feedback at this stage help to satisfy a preconceived agenda you have about their experiences? Are you looking for confirmation and are disappointed that you haven't got it?!

At least we can all agree its a blessing that Corey Hill didn't get a Lions cap.

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:Interesting article, RDW.  They don't sound very disgruntled at all!  In fact they sound like they had a very positive experience.  I'm happy to take their word over it, rather than listen to those who say the jersey was devalued.  From the horses mouth, and all that.

There's a few things to note:

- Russell and to a lesser extent Dell are very positive, relaxed characters so they probably would have been OK in the environment.
- They're hardly going to say anything to the contrary just now - wait until the autobiographies come out!

Can't you just be happy that they felt they had a good experience?  Why always look for the negatives?  Would negative feedback at this stage help to satisfy a preconceived agenda you have about their experiences?  Are you looking for confirmation and are disappointed that you haven't got it?!

Not at all - I think you're taking what I said a bit too seriously!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:Interesting article, RDW.  They don't sound very disgruntled at all!  In fact they sound like they had a very positive experience.  I'm happy to take their word over it, rather than listen to those who say the jersey was devalued.  From the horses mouth, and all that.

There's a few things to note:

- Russell and to a lesser extent Dell are very positive, relaxed characters so they probably would have been OK in the environment.
- They're hardly going to say anything to the contrary just now - wait until the autobiographies come out!

Can't you just be happy that they felt they had a good experience?  Why always look for the negatives?  Would negative feedback at this stage help to satisfy a preconceived agenda you have about their experiences?  Are you looking for confirmation and are disappointed that you haven't got it?!

Not at all - I think you're taking what I said a bit too seriously!

Maybe. But it's a nice article with players who are, hopefully, not being complete liars or completely two faced. Made me feel happy that they've had a good time and a positive experience, because all you read on here is how poorly they've been treated.

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:Interesting article, RDW.  They don't sound very disgruntled at all!  In fact they sound like they had a very positive experience.  I'm happy to take their word over it, rather than listen to those who say the jersey was devalued.  From the horses mouth, and all that.

There's a few things to note:

- Russell and to a lesser extent Dell are very positive, relaxed characters so they probably would have been OK in the environment.
- They're hardly going to say anything to the contrary just now - wait until the autobiographies come out!

Can't you just be happy that they felt they had a good experience?  Why always look for the negatives?  Would negative feedback at this stage help to satisfy a preconceived agenda you have about their experiences?  Are you looking for confirmation and are disappointed that you haven't got it?!

Not at all - I think you're taking what I said a bit too seriously!

Maybe.  But it's a nice article with players who are, hopefully, not being complete liars or completely two faced.  Made me feel happy that they've had a good time and a positive experience, because all you read on here is how poorly they've been treated.

Fair enough, but them having a nice time and Gatland not using any of the geography 6 in both games (other than injury) is a separate issue. It does certainly sound like they're viewing it as a positive experience (which it should have been), albeit disappointed they didn't get more gametime.

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:Interesting article, RDW.  They don't sound very disgruntled at all!  In fact they sound like they had a very positive experience.  I'm happy to take their word over it, rather than listen to those who say the jersey was devalued.  From the horses mouth, and all that.

There's a few things to note:

- Russell and to a lesser extent Dell are very positive, relaxed characters so they probably would have been OK in the environment.
- They're hardly going to say anything to the contrary just now - wait until the autobiographies come out!

Can't you just be happy that they felt they had a good experience?  Why always look for the negatives?  Would negative feedback at this stage help to satisfy a preconceived agenda you have about their experiences?  Are you looking for confirmation and are disappointed that you haven't got it?!

He just said there are a few things to note, quite reasonably. Optimism for the sake of optimism is stupid. Before say the same thing about pessimism (which is equally true) this tour has indeed been a farce and the Geographical 6 is one of the most foolish things Gatland has done. Even if the two players in question aren't bothered about it. I actually think it is worse for the Welsh players who didn't feature at all because they "devalued" the shirt.

I don't think anyone would have had a problem with Russell's inclusion in the Lions, for example.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:Interesting article, RDW.  They don't sound very disgruntled at all!  In fact they sound like they had a very positive experience.  I'm happy to take their word over it, rather than listen to those who say the jersey was devalued.  From the horses mouth, and all that.

There's a few things to note:

- Russell and to a lesser extent Dell are very positive, relaxed characters so they probably would have been OK in the environment.
- They're hardly going to say anything to the contrary just now - wait until the autobiographies come out!

Can't you just be happy that they felt they had a good experience?  Why always look for the negatives?  Would negative feedback at this stage help to satisfy a preconceived agenda you have about their experiences?  Are you looking for confirmation and are disappointed that you haven't got it?!

He just said there are a few things to note, quite reasonably. Optimism for the sake of optimism is stupid. Before say the same thing about pessimism (which is equally true) this tour has indeed been a farce and the Geographical 6 is one of the most foolish things Gatland has done. Even if the two players in question aren't bothered about it. I actually think it is worse for the Welsh players who didn't feature at all because they "devalued" the shirt.

I don't think anyone would have had a problem with Russell's inclusion in the Lions, for example.

OK, but that's not what the article (and subsequent discussion) is about. It's an article with two players saying they've enjoyed their experience.

Griff wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:Interesting article, RDW.  They don't sound very disgruntled at all!  In fact they sound like they had a very positive experience.  I'm happy to take their word over it, rather than listen to those who say the jersey was devalued.  From the horses mouth, and all that.

There's a few things to note:

- Russell and to a lesser extent Dell are very positive, relaxed characters so they probably would have been OK in the environment.
- They're hardly going to say anything to the contrary just now - wait until the autobiographies come out!

Can't you just be happy that they felt they had a good experience?  Why always look for the negatives?  Would negative feedback at this stage help to satisfy a preconceived agenda you have about their experiences?  Are you looking for confirmation and are disappointed that you haven't got it?!

He just said there are a few things to note, quite reasonably. Optimism for the sake of optimism is stupid. Before say the same thing about pessimism (which is equally true) this tour has indeed been a farce and the Geographical 6 is one of the most foolish things Gatland has done. Even if the two players in question aren't bothered about it. I actually think it is worse for the Welsh players who didn't feature at all because they "devalued" the shirt.

I don't think anyone would have had a problem with Russell's inclusion in the Lions, for example.

OK, but that's not what the article (and subsequent discussion) is about.  It's an article with two players saying they've enjoyed their experience.  

As long as they're happy, then I guess it doesn't matter that players more deserving of going to New Zealand have missed out. Also, it doesn't matter that they were called up to shield the test players, who went on to lose the first test. And finally, it's okay that the midweek team then drew the Hurricanes game because the 15 or so trusted players ran out of puff as they didn't have enough rotation between or during games.

sub standard....shocking way to describe Scots.

Yes it's totally deflating to read that you're sub-standard, but how must their teammates feel who weren't even called up?
The next time Scotland faces the ABs they will go into the game knowing that they're not considered good enough.