Is NZ rugby in crisis?

First topic message reminder :

Red cards, ill disciplined, lack of composure at key times, no goal kicker and NO TRIES, I repeat NO TRIES....... and they get beaten by a bunch of un-coached blokes thrown together at the end of a very long season.

Is NZ rugby in crisis?

NO side is unbeatable Bam Bam the Lions won because they were the
better side over 80minutes,it is great for the game.
IF the Lions win on Saturday I will congratulate them as did on this one.
Still won`t stop me supporting the AB`s as I`ve done win or lose all
my life
I`ve ridden the jibes of" four more years" and "chokers "made my choice
when Boks were king of the Heap.When Wales and France were there
bogey teams.I`m no glory hunter and still support England,Scotland,
and the LIONS against any team but NZ
I think they will lose some RC matches to the Boks,England will be IRB
Number 1 by the end of the year.
I don`t think they will win RWC2019,I don`t think this current side is
a GREAT side yet.BUT it will be be afraid,be very afraid

Lol. 'I'm not a glory hunter'!

Nice one 7 1/2 so predictable

emack2 wrote:Nice one 7 1/2 so predictable

So you're not a New Zealander?

I think its commendable that you are so openly glory supporting a team to which you have no connection on the other side of the world

To say that you are then not a glory hunter seems a bit silly though

Emack is as plastic as they come.

Its a bit of an odd one but at age 74 and a long time rugby supporter I reckon the dude has earned the right to support whoever he wants.

In Ireland a huge proportion of adult males support a British football team. I have never been able to wrap my head around this. The connections to the teams they support are so vague its hilarious listening to them try to justify it to themselves.

Think that is more understandable as the highest level of football, that Ireland's own teams can't hope to compete with

I'd compare that to me picking an NFL or NBA team

Picking a different international side because they win is beyond me

I've never met a Manchester United fan, not from Manchester, who has said I support them because they win. But we all know.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I've never met a Manchester United fan, not from Manchester, who has said I support them because they win. But we all know.

Well recent form would suggest thats legit

Suck it up gents what you see is what you get,plastic? try steel I don`t
go with the wind.
I don`t change never have never will think what you will whenNZ lose
I`m the first to congratulate the winners
For the record in 1953-4 NZ lost to Cardiff,France,Wales and a France
selection.
A glory hunter would have supported the Boks that year

emack2 wrote:what you see is what you get

Yes, it indeed is.

And boy do we feel blessed to get you

BamBam wrote:Think that is more understandable as the highest level of football, that Ireland's own teams can't hope to compete with

I'd compare that to me picking an NFL or NBA team

Picking a different international side because they win is beyond me

So are you saying that Emack is right to support NZ because generally England cant compete with NZ?

For me sport is also about community and identity as well as entertainment. So can never understand how lots identify with English sides. Id rather go to a league of Ireland game.

A plastic would support a team that they have sod all to do with. Embrace it don't expect people to clap you on the back for supporting a team from.across the globe.

That makes me chuckle now gooseberry. I heard the phrase long suffering arsenal fan the other day! I'd hate to support arsenal given they're constantly in the prem with the players they have; even I as a boro fan ain't exactly suffering compared to some teams fans. You just got to suck it up and support your local team.

Picking the international team with arguably the best winning record in sport sounds like glory hunting to me, regardless of whether you congratulate the other side on the few occasions they lose

Its fine if you want to glory hunt, just be big enough to admit that's what you're doing rather than try and justify it

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

BamBam wrote:Think that is more understandable as the highest level of football, that Ireland's own teams can't hope to compete with

I'd compare that to me picking an NFL or NBA team

Picking a different international side because they win is beyond me

So are you saying that Emack is right to support NZ because generally England cant compete with NZ?

For me sport is also about community and identity as well as entertainment. So can never understand how lots identify with English sides. Id rather go to a league of Ireland game.

I meant compete "at" rather than with - the Irish league teams would never be able to compete in the Champions League for example, the highest level of football

England have proven in the past that they can compete with NZ - sure they're the best around, but they haven't been undefeated against England

If say Shamrock Rovers played the same number of games against Man Utd, I reckon they'd probably struggle to win 1

AS a matter of interest were you an England fan because of RWC2003?
Bragging about a 13 man England Scrum holding up the AB`s Scrum,
for a few minutes at the end of a game when they were scoring tries?
By deliberately collapsing it under todays ruling would have been a penalty
try,and more men binned?
England in RWC yet to beat NZ in them,7wins since 1905 only two in NZ.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Emack is as plastic as they come.

He ain't the only one

As a 13 year old from a family of cricket fans, yes, 2003 was the first time I'd taken any interest in rugby

Must be a glory hunter

emack2 wrote:AS a matter of interest were you an England fan because of RWC2003?
Bragging about a 13 man England Scrum holding up the AB`s Scrum,
for a few minutes at the end of a game when they were scoring tries?
By deliberately collapsing it under todays ruling would have been a penalty
try,and more men binned?

I at least support my own country not another because they happen to be good.

Nope. Didn't get into rugby until around 05 06 really. Football fan before that but started to get a bit sick with the rules moving towards no contact so a mate suggested I go watch a bit of rugby with him and I liked it. Despite that I'm from England so I support them no matter what win or lose. Again at the end there you don't need to talk teams down to justify your plasticness.

Once was a great Cricket fan ,Supported Yorkshire because all the players
were Yorkshire born.Lost interest when they started importing players,was
a soccer fan too for a while until teams started buying titles.
Guess why don`t support Premier Clubs and Top 14 doing just that a
cheque book mean`t the same.
When you start importing top imports into your international sides to compete
for get it.
Before we get the old Pacific islands bit for NZ just 40 players since 1905
not born in or parents in NZ

Yeah NZ are just importing fans from the beaches of Bournemouth instead

emack2 wrote:Once was a great Cricket fan ,Supported Yorkshire because all the players
were Yorkshire born.Lost interest when they started importing players,was
a soccer fan too for a while until teams started buying titles.
Guess why don`t support Premier Clubs and Top 14 doing just that a
cheque book mean`t the same.
When you start importing top imports into your international sides to compete
for get it.
Before we get the old Pacific islands bit for NZ just 40 players since 1905
not born in or parents in NZ

In that case it's perfectly acceptable to be a glory hunter.

BamBam wrote:
I meant compete "at" rather than with - the Irish league teams would never be able to compete in the Champions League for example, the highest level of football

England have proven in the past that they can compete with NZ - sure they're the best around, but they haven't been undefeated against England

If say Shamrock Rovers played the same number of games against Man Utd, I reckon they'd probably struggle to win 1

Football is all about money. English football is awash with dirty money from overseas. Guys like Abramovich invest their exceptionally dirty money in English football to legitimise it and keep it in a secure location and the British goverment couldnt care less because people like the Tories would sell their grannies for power or do business with morally corrupt people like the DUP. UK banks in general are awash with Russian money. As such Irish teams will never be able to compete, this is a massive failure in FIFAs part as they have contributed to the evolution of football this way.

For me watching Irish teams is much more interesting than watching a bunch of over paid divas dive around the place for 90 minutes.

Oh I 100% agree with you on the morals of English football

Just think an Irishman supporting a Premier League team is far more understandable than old Emack picking the greatest ever rugby team regardless of the fact he has about as much connection to them as he does to Timbuktu

BamBam wrote:Oh I 100% agree with you on the morals of English football

Just think an Irishman supporting a Premier League team is far more understandable than old Emack picking the greatest every rugby team regardless of the fact he has about as much connection to them as he does to Timbuktu

Rumour has it Emack was once in the carpet-fitting business, up until they started importing exotic rugs from overseas.

I wouldn't say theyre in crisis... But this makes what, two losses in 6 games? I thought in 2016, they played the highest level of rugby I've ever seen, and it was easy to compare because the previous highest was literally just a year before that. Maybe theyre suffering from a come down.

Or (more likely) maybe they are in fact human, and lost a game in the wet which neutralized their advantages, played a man down for 45 minutes and STILL would have won had Barrett kicked 100% (admittedly he can't actually kick, so backing him to kick 100% in back to back games was asking for a lot)

I've been an Irish rugby fan since the day I was born. There have been far too many birthdays since then, I won't say how many but 50 rapidly approaches
Anyway, Ireland has and always will be my first choice international side obviously because I was born and bred here and will never leave. However, when I was a nipper there was this legendary side who came all the way around the globe to utterly thrash us at rugby, no matter how well we'd played in the 5 nations as it was. They wore black, played a kind of rugby I'd never seen the like of and as if that wasn't good enough, did a little dance before every game. It used to send the tingles up my spine. I've supported them as my 2nd international side ever since. I am an Irishman without any connections to New Zealand apart from the fact that they were my childhood heroes, not the ones in comicbooks wearing tights and capes.

Maybe Emack's the same, just saying is all

For the record I watch and enjoyed the 6Ns and supported both England
and Scotland playing.Scotland especially after so many years in the
doldrums.
England at least for me were not as good in 2017 as in 2016 result of
cause.[Grand Slam then Championship]
Guns Ireland are so unpredictable struggle to put Aus away then beat
NZ.[which I predicted]
Of course I want NZ to win every match I`m a supporter do you think
anything else from your own side?
AB`s don`t lose it`s an act of faith of course they do all teams do.
BUT they use it to focus things and set them right.THE Lions did
just that.WHEN your team does the same then they will become
GREAT again.Wales,England,Scotland,Ireland,France have all been
that in my life time.
I was lucky enough to have THE TWO greatest Lions tours in my
life time SA 1955,NZ 1959 against the greatest teams of there time.
Talk down teams hardly most of period 1996-2017 SH were IRB 1,2,
and 3 ,most of them.

emack2 wrote:For the record I watch and enjoyed the 6Ns and supported both England
and Scotland playing.Scotland especially after so many years in the
doldrums.
England at least for me were not as good in 2017 as in 2016 result of
cause.[Grand Slam then Championship]
Guns Ireland are so unpredictable struggle to put Aus away then beat
NZ.[which I predicted]
Of course I want NZ to win every match I`m a supporter do you think
anything else from your own side?
AB`s don`t lose it`s an act of faith of course they do all teams do.
BUT they use it to focus things and set them right.THE Lions did
just that.WHEN your team does the same then they will become
GREAT again.Wales,England,Scotland,Ireland,France have all been
that in my life time.
I was lucky enough to have THE TWO greatest Lions tours in my
life time SA 1955,NZ 1959 against the greatest teams of there time.
Talk down teams hardly most of period 1996-2017 SH were IRB 1,2,
and 3 ,most of them.

Your side is England however much you try to convince anyone otherwise. You can't choose your national side.

Does it really matter who anybody supports? At the end of the day its individual choices.

I am Irish, support Ireland but also support other countries (not to the extent of Ireland). I am never really a true neutral when rugby is on, I always support one team over the other.

eirebilly wrote:Does it really matter who anybody supports? At the end of the day its individual choices.

I am Irish, support Ireland but also support other countries (not to the extent of Ireland). I am never really a true neutral when rugby is on, I always support one team over the other.

Not wrong there but I can't understand supporting another side over your own country.

For me it's:

England



Ireland (Irish family)


Wales

Anyone other than Scotland or New Zealand.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Does it really matter who anybody supports? At the end of the day its individual choices.

I am Irish, support Ireland but also support other countries (not to the extent of Ireland). I am never really a true neutral when rugby is on, I always support one team over the other.

Not wrong there but I can't understand supporting another side over your own country.

For me it's:

England



Ireland (Irish family)


Wales

Anyone other than Scotland or New Zealand.

Why lie

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Does it really matter who anybody supports? At the end of the day its individual choices.

I am Irish, support Ireland but also support other countries (not to the extent of Ireland). I am never really a true neutral when rugby is on, I always support one team over the other.

Not wrong there but I can't understand supporting another side over your own country.

For me it's:

England



Ireland (Irish family)


Wales

Anyone other than Scotland or New Zealand.

Fair enough but I am just not bothered by what team anyone else supports, its their choice

Pete330v2 wrote:I've been an Irish rugby fan since the day I was born. There have been far too many birthdays since then, I won't say how many but 50 rapidly approaches
Anyway, Ireland has and always will be my first choice international side obviously because I was born and bred here and will never leave. However, when I was a nipper there was this legendary side who came all the way around the globe to utterly thrash us at rugby, no matter how well we'd played in the 5 nations as it was. They wore black, played a kind of rugby I'd never seen the like of and as if that wasn't good enough, did a little dance before every game. It used to send the tingles up my spine. I've supported them as my 2nd international side ever since. I am an Irishman without any connections to New Zealand apart from the fact that they were my childhood heroes, not the ones in comicbooks wearing tights and capes.

Maybe Emack's the same, just saying is all

Same here more or less...apart from the 50 bit, I'm way off that.

Actually have distant relatives in both NZ and Australia,on my fathers side
Scottish in South island NZ.In Australia on my mothers side,JOE ROFF
is a distant cousin so not without some associations

Just leave the little digs out about England. And don't expect everyone to respect choosing a side rather than supporting your side and stop pretending you do that on any other level than nz are always there or there abouts.

emack2 wrote:Actually have distant relatives in both NZ and Australia,on my fathers side
Scottish in South island NZ.In Australia on my mothers side,JOE ROFF
is a distant cousin so not without some associations

Don't list to the rabble Alan, good on you for backing black!

All will be well this weekend, normal transmission restored!

Once you go black you never go back

For someone so pleased to be a glory hunter, you don't half get defensive emack

Aside from what I wrote earlier I can honestly say that I understand why people not from NZ support the AB's. They are one very big community and a lot of people can relate to that.

The AB supporters (with the exception of a couple on here) are very welcoming and hospitable and as such, you immediately feel part of the family.

Agree on the good nature of NZ fans

Still hope they get spanked every time they play England though

Not in crisis by a long shot but creaking for sure.

From an outsider, they're struggling to replace some world class players and quite understandable really.

Locks - after the first choice pairing, it's a big drop.
Kaino - can't have too long, he'll be missed...Ioane needs to up his game
McCaw - legend, Cane just not at that level
Read - lose him, problem

Carter - love Barrett but he's not mr consistency
C Smith - the glue in the backline, Crotty not close

To be fair to NZ though, they are the best at bringing players through.

rodders wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:I've been an Irish rugby fan since the day I was born. There have been far too many birthdays since then, I won't say how many but 50 rapidly approaches
Anyway, Ireland has and always will be my first choice international side obviously because I was born and bred here and will never leave. However, when I was a nipper there was this legendary side who came all the way around the globe to utterly thrash us at rugby, no matter how well we'd played in the 5 nations as it was. They wore black, played a kind of rugby I'd never seen the like of and as if that wasn't good enough, did a little dance before every game. It used to send the tingles up my spine. I've supported them as my 2nd international side ever since. I am an Irishman without any connections to New Zealand apart from the fact that they were my childhood heroes, not the ones in comicbooks wearing tights and capes.

Maybe Emack's the same, just saying is all

Same here more or less...apart from the 50 bit, I'm way off that.

Jees Rodders, I didn't know you were in your 80s

Can't believe there is already 2 pages on this "All Black crisis" Pseudo BS debate.
Thing is a couple of losses won't make a difference in the long run or at least in the next 10 years or so (if not more) NZ rugby will still dominate. They simply have the best conveyor belt of talent in terms of both quantity and quality. Rugby and it's skills are teach properly to most youngsters there and as opposed to England and SA it is not an elitist sport.
Even if Australia stop playing RU and SA teams bugger off to the Pro12, the All Blacks are such a brand all countries will pay them at a premium to have them touring their backyard. Lack of finance might hurt NZ rugby without a proper club competition? Just create a transfer system by which the club/union that "bred" a player gets a cut of the value of that given player whenever he changes employers.

Said that for a while but the way you develop young rugby players is the most important thing to get right (exact opposite of what is happening in France btw).

Good luck Lions for next Saturday backlash!

" and as opposed to England and SA it is not an elitist sport"

Rugby isn't an elitist sport in England.

Is Rugby played in most state schools (in urban areas)?

whocares wrote:Is Rugby played in most state schools (in urban areas)?

Pretty sure it is. I went to a Northern comprehensive school (state) and we were taught rugby and had a side. You'll also see a side in most towns across the country. The elitism started to fade with the introduction of professionalism I guess, as we can see by the range of accents in the England side and I don't mean NZ/SA etc

Most state schools sport is an absolute joke. Very few have decent facilities and coaches. Forbthe most part its acadamies and clubs that pick up the kids, and there has been much more of a push to look outside the traditional good schools.
Academy status for secondary schools is helping in that regard too. Whats now Hinckley Academy has a lot of players coming out of it hitting the
But despite whats said above the make up of the England side is hardly representative of the avergae background ( ignoring the imports).