IRFU Annual Report

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Fair play to the IRFU for, yet again, investing in its supply chain and, on this occasion, being prepared to go into deficit in order to sustain the professional game.

If only the WRU had the governance set up, and the subsequent strength of the Executive, in order to do the same.

I've not tried to weasel out of anything as you claim, I've clearly asked you for a number that you consider to be worthy of being considered a fraction and funnily enough no answer. Funny that.

I've also previously stated that there was a need to make up for the difference in attendances but I'm just weaselling here

You say it's the life blood, there's truth to that and in the lean times it will sustain you but the real truth is that in the modern era the tv revenue, sponsorship, prize money, merchandising and everything else are of as much importance.

Ireland played 5 games at the Aviva last season, so are you telling me that makes generates enough in ticket sales to sustain the IRFU?

marty2086 wrote:I've not tried to weasel out of anything as you claim, I've clearly asked you for a number that you consider to be worthy of being considered a fraction and funnily enough no answer. Funny that.

I've also previously stated that there was a need to make up for the difference in attendances but I'm just weaselling here

You say it's the life blood, there's truth to that and in the lean times it will sustain you but the real truth is that in the modern era the tv revenue, sponsorship, prize money, merchandising and everything else are of as much importance.

Ireland played 5 games at the Aviva last season, so are you telling me that makes generates enough in ticket sales to sustain the IRFU?

If they are of "as much importance" then they, too, are "fractions".

Wriggle wriggle weasel

marty2086 wrote:
Ireland played 5 games at the Aviva last season, so are you telling me that makes generates enough in ticket sales to sustain the IRFU?

By the way, one of the 5 games was against Canada which was nearly 10k short of a sell out

marty2086 wrote:I've not tried to weasel out of anything as you claim, I've clearly asked you for a number that you consider to be worthy of being considered a fraction and funnily enough no answer. Funny that.

I've also previously stated that there was a need to make up for the difference in attendances but I'm just weaselling here

You say it's the life blood, there's truth to that and in the lean times it will sustain you but the real truth is that in the modern era the tv revenue, sponsorship, prize money, merchandising and everything else are of as much importance.

Ireland played 5 games at the Aviva last season, so are you telling me that makes generates enough in ticket sales to sustain the IRFU?

You didn't clearly ask me for a number that I consider to be a fraction.  You were employing weasel words trying to re-interpret the normal use of the often-used phrase "a fraction of a value/cost/etc". For example, PRO12 TV monies are only a fraction of the overall income for the IRFU.

The only question you asked was wanting to know what percentage do ticket sales comprise of total income.   A fact you should work out for yourself before deciding to throw away the shovel and get out the keys of the JCB.

marty2086 wrote:Is it less than 45%?40%? That qualifies it as a fraction

so you were saying?

A small part of. Depends whether you feel almost half is small.

Keep going, chaps, and soon you'll reach the stage where Martyn has to claim to ignore you in order to save his own self esteem.

marty2086 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Is it less than 45%?40%? That qualifies it as a fraction

so you were saying?

Marty, LD isn't wrong here. The Aviva is small by Tier 1 rugby standards. Its where we are and why non-gate solutions may well be more important for us than the WRU. Its a minor point to concede anyways? In general I think you have the right side of the facts in your bickering with LD, but when you don't, just admit it and move on with the conversation.

He has stated the Aviva needs looked at, he was told numerous times it wasn't possible and was even told that for the IRFU to have a bigger stadium they'd have to sell a stadium they spent over 400m on less than a decade ago and build yet another one outside Dublin but still kept saying that was the only solution.

I don't dispute it's small and something the size of Croke Park would be great but NZ, Australia and SA all use similar sized stadiums at times. ANZ and Ellis Park are the only stadiums that are over 5k bigger.

What I do dispute is that the IRFU can't survive without having a bigger stadium. NZ are more than capable of surviving with a similar sized stadium in Eden Park plus paying for the players and coaches of 5 franchises and the ABs and other teams. The IRFU on the other hand merely contribute to the 4 provinces plus the representative teams.

If Im not mistaken, the IRFU set their annual budgets based on on finishing 4th in the 6Ns every year not based on attendance figures.

marty2086 wrote:He has stated the Aviva needs looked at, he was told numerous times it wasn't possible and was even told that for the IRFU to have a bigger stadium they'd have to sell a stadium they spent over 400m on less than a decade ago and build yet another one outside Dublin but still kept saying that was the only solution

No I have not. Please quote me in saying this, without manipulating my posts as always.

marty2086 wrote:I don't dispute it's small and something the size of Croke Park would be great but NZ, Australia and SA all use similar sized stadiums at times. ANZ and Ellis Park are the only stadiums that are over 5k bigger.

Their stadiums are not big enough either.

marty2086 wrote:What I do dispute is that the IRFU can't survive without having a bigger stadium.

I never said this. I said going forward in the professional era, that the Aviva is not big enough to help sustain the union. That's not to say you could get better sponsorship deals, or a better TV deal or something. But the fact that you have the smallest stadium in the 6N it will always hamstring you.

marty2086 wrote: NZ are more than capable of surviving with a similar sized stadium in Eden Park plus paying for the players and coaches of 5 franchises and the ABs and other teams.

So that's why New Zealand are always on the moan about having a bigger share of the ticket sales from the AI's. Their stadiums are not big enough either.

I'd love it if the Aviva was bigger as well, it would certainly make getting tickets for the 6 nations easier.
But due to its location, its capacity cannot be increased, it was designed with the Max capacity it could have. The IRFU are not in a position to be able to build a newer bigger stadium elsewhere.

There must have been a lot of talk was a 51,700 capacity stadium with the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) in the city center where it can host concerts, etc, able to produce more income than a solely owned 80,000 capacity stadium outside Dublin, and could the IRFU even afford this option?

I'm sure they weighted it up and went with what was best. I wish that the residents had allowed a 80,000 stadium, but thats wishful thinking.

Kingshu wrote:I'd love it if the Aviva was bigger as well, it would certainly make getting tickets for the 6 nations easier.

It is a shame, as obviously the demand is there. I remember when the WRU were re-building the Arms Park, they too had the same issues as what was had in Dublin, but they came up with an ingenious idea. The moved the stadium around 180 degrees and instead of building up, they built down.

I have also heard talk of transforming the one stand behind the goals from a two tier to a three tier stand. This would put I think about an extra 10,000 seats in the PS.

The only mistake made with the Aviva is that the pitch isn't big enough to accommodate GAA. If it was, in a couple of years time (after Rugby World Cup in 2023), the intelligent thing would be to move Dublin/Leinster GAA League games to the Aviva in the Spring and the IRFU to use Croke Park for the games with most demand for tickets.

A city the size of Dublin really can't afford two 80K stadiums when there are a lot of homeless people.

Kingshu wrote:I'd love it if the Aviva was bigger as well, it would certainly make getting tickets for the 6 nations easier.
But due to its location, its capacity cannot be increased, it was designed with the Max capacity it could have. The IRFU are not in a position to be able to build a newer bigger stadium elsewhere.

There must have been a lot of talk was a 51,700 capacity stadium with the Football Association of Ireland (FAI)  in the city center where it can host concerts, etc, able to produce more income than a solely owned 80,000 capacity stadium outside Dublin, and could the IRFU even afford this option?

I'm sure they weighted it up and went with what was best. I wish that the residents had allowed a 80,000 stadium, but thats wishful thinking.

I wonder what they consider the lifespan of the Aviva is, the agreement with the FAI to share the stadium I think was for about 50 years. If the game grows further in Ireland and especially with programmes to take it into new areas and if the RWC comes to Ireland that could be a catalyst then the demand could really grow.