SBW to miss first Bledisloe

by **Rugby Fan** Thu 27 Jul 2017, 6:51 pm

At one stage, it looked as if SBW would return earlier, as the NZRU argued some meaningless matches were part of his ban quota. You can't blame the NZRU for attempt into use World Rugby's rules to their best advantage but it does show that not all bans are necessarily equal.

As it turns out, World Rugby have ruled out some of the matches NZRU hoped would qualify:

At the judiciary hearing, the All Blacks claimed that Williams would play in pre-season for Counties Manukau against North Harbour, and in an inter-squad match involving a Counties B side.

While the Judicial Committee accepted that the game against North Harbour was meaningful, they were not satisfied that the inter-squad game on August 5 was set to "be a meaningful match" and would not "have had a meaningful playing consequence" for Williams, saying it was effectively "an internal club trial".

They then also rejected the All Blacks' "Game of three halves" against Counties and Taranaki, as it did not meet the World Rugby definition of a match, due to the introduction of a completely new team after halftime.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11896128

by Gwlad Fri 28 Jul 2017, 2:46 am

Should miss more to be honest, one of the most cynical challenges you'll ever see on a rugby pitch.

by Guest Fri 28 Jul 2017, 6:28 am

The World Rugby panel denying SBW the chance to play against Australia in the first Bledisloe Cup game compromised three Australians - including former Wallabies David Croft and John Langford.

chin

by No 7&1/2 Fri 28 Jul 2017, 6:57 am

Would still prefer to see this aligned more closely with football where it's very rare that a domestic ban crosses to internationals and vice versa.

by Guest Fri 28 Jul 2017, 7:30 am

Agree with that

NZR are appealing the decision

by munkian Fri 28 Jul 2017, 8:29 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Would still prefer to see this aligned more closely with football where it's very rare that a domestic ban crosses to internationals and vice versa.

Why ?

by No 7&1/2 Fri 28 Jul 2017, 9:03 am

I think it's unfair that a club is penalised for an international misdemeanour etc.

by **LondonTiger** Fri 28 Jul 2017, 9:17 am

I do not believe any player should be allowed to play international rugby if under a ban from club rugby. Equally I do not believe that a player should be able to play club rugby immediately after being banned for international rugby. This is especially so if the ban is for serious foul play.

In 2013 and 2009 individuals missed the Lions tours due to bans incurred at the end of their domestic season - I feel that is completely correct. The player is being punished for the actions (and in these cases the Lions are collateral damage).

There could be a separate debate about whether Clubs shoudl be entitled to withold some portion of salary for any player banned, and thus not available to work.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Fri 28 Jul 2017, 9:18 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I think it's unfair that a club is penalised for an international misdemeanour etc.

I agree with you on minor misdemeanours - anything major (doping, gouging, breaking bloke's arms etc) - i.e. anything involving more than ~ 2 months' ban then it ought to cover all levels

by **Biltong** Fri 28 Jul 2017, 9:42 am

I have sympathy for SBW, when you look at the head collision with his shoulder his right arm is late in coming up to wrap the player, it is possibly due to the double tackle situation that occured.

But it happened and his ban stands which I have no issue with.

I do agree though a ban collected under international rugby should impact the team a plyayer represented, same with club.

by Gwlad Sat 29 Jul 2017, 5:09 pm

ebop wrote:The World Rugby panel denying SBW the chance to play against Australia in the first Bledisloe Cup game compromised three Australians - including former Wallabies David Croft and John Langford.

I think you'll find it was SBW has been compromised, you mean comprised Doh

by thebandwagonsociety Wed 02 Aug 2017, 4:13 pm

Gwlad wrote:
ebop wrote:The World Rugby panel denying SBW the chance to play against Australia in the first Bledisloe Cup game compromised three Australians - including former Wallabies David Croft and John Langford.

I think you'll find it was SBW has been compromised, you mean comprised

World Rugby website posted on 28/07/2017 09:00 wrote:
http://www.worldrugby.org/news/268437

An appeal by New Zealand centre Sonny Bill Williams (pictured above) against the matches which an independent disciplinary committee counted towards his four-week suspension following his red card for dangerous charging contrary to Law 10.4(g) during the second New Zealand versus British and Irish Lions test in Wellington on 1 July has been heard.

The hearing took place on 1 August and was heard by an independent appeal committee chaired by Mr Justice Graeme Mew (Canada) along with Shao-Ing Wang (Singapore) and Stefan Terblanche (South Africa).

The panel reserved judgement in the case. The decision will be made and communicated in due course.

Did the 3 Ozzies throw out the 3 people named above? This is scandalous, that kind of complete disregard of the disciplinary process shouldn't be allowed if Australia are making decisions to their own benefit.

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 03 Aug 2017, 2:38 pm

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/williams-free-to-face-wallabies/

What a farce, SBW cleared to face the Wallabies. ABs get away with it again.

Why do ABs always try to weasel their way out of any sanction rather than accept it?

by **Rugby Fan** Thu 03 Aug 2017, 4:56 pm

Augustin Pichot of World Rugby wrote this tweet:

I dont agree on the decision of the independent panel towards sbw's case . But we have to respect the independent process.

https://twitter.com/AP9_/status/893108760809529350

Even a NZ Herald podcast thought calling the training game a proper match would be a stretch. They recalled how Andrew Hore got over his red card ban faster by claiming he'd play some matches he would normally never appear in. They didn't expect the All Blacks would actually win this appeal, more that they wanted World Rugby to be clear about its own rules,

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 03 Aug 2017, 5:13 pm

Its a complete joke and just goes to show that the ABs receive favorable treatment.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 03 Aug 2017, 7:25 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Its a complete joke and just goes to show that the ABs receive favorable treatment.

By this standard, if Rory Best (as an example) ever receives a ban for whatever reason they should count the games missed for his registered club Banbridge RFC.

by Gwlad Fri 04 Aug 2017, 3:53 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Its a complete joke and just goes to show that the ABs receive favorable treatment.

it does but hen with someone of SBW character you know he will just do it again and again, like Hartley, etc in that regard

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 04 Aug 2017, 8:58 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Its a complete joke and just goes to show that the ABs receive favorable treatment.

By this standard, if Rory Best (as an example) ever receives a ban for whatever reason they should count the games missed for his registered club Banbridge RFC.

Exactly its complete nonsense. The ABs weaseling their way out of punishment again. They think they are above it.

by Barney McGrew did it Fri 04 Aug 2017, 9:13 am

It is something Sonny B should've taken on the chin. I mean Watson did.

by Guest Fri 04 Aug 2017, 9:30 am

Naholo took one smack bang on the chin from SOB and nothing came of that. Irish player getting away with it.

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 04 Aug 2017, 10:16 am

ebop wrote:Naholo took one smack bang on the chin from SOB and nothing came of that. Irish player getting away with it.

It was probably one of the most innocuous collisions you can see on a rugby pitch. Further evidence that Kiwis expect special treatment if that was to be sanctioned.

by Guest Fri 04 Aug 2017, 10:19 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
ebop wrote:Naholo took one smack bang on the chin from SOB and nothing came of that. Irish player getting away with it.

It was probably one of the most innocuous collisions you can see on a rugby pitch. Further evidence that Kiwis expect special treatment if that was to be sanctioned.

Mate, you sound like a kiwi

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 05 Aug 2017, 9:31 am

Really can't see the drama with this, must be the good wum material.

It was a poor tackle but you see worse every week in the AP. He's had his ban, lets get on with things.

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 05 Aug 2017, 11:05 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Really can't see the drama with this, must be the good wum material.

It was a poor tackle but you see worse every week in the AP. He's had his ban, lets get on with things.

No, he hasn't. That's why people are peeved. It's a joke.

by Guest Sat 05 Aug 2017, 11:48 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Really can't see the drama with this, must be the good wum material.

It was a poor tackle but you see worse every week in the AP. He's had his ban, lets get on with things.

No, he hasn't. That's why people are peeved. It's a joke.

Yes he has

Time to move on cupcake

SOB and Vuipola and Henderson etc etc getting either nothing or a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket was a joke

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 05 Aug 2017, 12:04 pm

I'll eat my hat if an Irish player appeals against a ban and get cleared when they miss a game for Ballymena RFC. We all know that no other country in the world would get away with something so ludicrous.

by Guest Sat 05 Aug 2017, 12:22 pm

Keep up. Happens all the time. Michael Hooper for example did the exact same thing. It's not our fault your NH rugby doesn't have the same structure as ours. We have SR franchises, regional NPC then local clubs. You just need to build a bridge and suck it up instead of getting all frothy.

by eirebilly Sat 05 Aug 2017, 1:16 pm

ebop wrote:Naholo took one smack bang on the chin from SOB and nothing came of that. Irish player getting away with it.

SOB was cited, citing commission decided there was absolutely no case to answer for so cannot see how you can say it is an Irish player 'getting away with it'.

You really do have a special way of looking at things or you simply live for the WUM.

by lostinwales Sat 05 Aug 2017, 1:27 pm

eirebilly wrote:
ebop wrote:Naholo took one smack bang on the chin from SOB and nothing came of that. Irish player getting away with it.

SOB was cited, citing commission decided there was absolutely no case to answer for so cannot see how you can say it is an Irish player 'getting away with it'.

You really do have a special way of looking at things or you simply live for the WUM.

I have occasionally wondered if him and Gwlad are at all related

by Cyril Sat 05 Aug 2017, 2:01 pm

It seems odd that Irish fans are on their high horse about this when their players are always getting lighter sanctions because of the Dublin administration effect. Irish provinces and the International side always appeal against bans and their media goes crazy every time something is slightly contentious. Probably because most are Man Utd fans and rugby is their part time sport.

Leave it lads.

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 05 Aug 2017, 2:39 pm

Away on your own horse, Cyril.

by lostinwales Sat 05 Aug 2017, 3:22 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Away on your own horse, Cyril.

Be gentle. He has several horses and they all need exercising

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 05 Aug 2017, 4:10 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Away on your own horse, Cyril.

I'm getting flashbacks

by Gwlad Sat 05 Aug 2017, 5:30 pm

ebop wrote:Keep up. Happens all the time. Michael Hooper for example did the exact same thing. It's not our fault your NH rugby doesn't have the same structure as ours. We have SR franchises, regional NPC then local clubs. You just need to build a bridge and suck it up instead of getting all frothy.

ah, you mean corrupt

by Gwlad Sat 05 Aug 2017, 6:32 pm

From now on I think we should all post in two parts.

by Gwlad Sat 05 Aug 2017, 6:32 pm

This will make it easier for NZ fas to understand

by Gwlad Sat 05 Aug 2017, 6:32 pm

As clearly they don't understand that a game of rugby is when 2 (TWO) teams compete against each other

by Guest Sun 06 Aug 2017, 10:29 am

Suggest you lay off the turps gwlad

by **George Carlin** Sun 06 Aug 2017, 12:23 pm

Is it worth continuing this thread? I almost cannot see the text for all of the todgers being waved around.

by lostinwales Sun 06 Aug 2017, 12:28 pm

Lets face it there is no point banning Gwlad. He'll just claim the ban against time he's spent away from a different forum

by eirebilly Sun 06 Aug 2017, 12:32 pm

In all seriousness, I do not honestly believe the AB's have done wrong here. They have exposed a loophole in a ruling, if there is one expose it I say.

Blame the rule makers for not having a water tight ruling rather than ban the team that expose it.

by aucklandlaurie Sun 06 Aug 2017, 5:15 pm

There are lots of badly written Rugby laws, New Zealand should show more leadership and write all the Laws, and get some consistancy and practicality back into the game.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 06 Aug 2017, 6:45 pm

Hopefully they'll be able to spell properly when drafting the laws.

by Gwlad Sun 06 Aug 2017, 8:12 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Hopefully they'll be able to spell properly when drafting the laws.

Yes

Rule 1. Learn to spell
Rule 2. Shoulder charge to the head? Fine
Rule 3. Rugby is game of 3 halves and 3 teams

by GunsGermsV2 Tue 08 Aug 2017, 9:16 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I'll eat my hat if an Irish player appeals against a ban and get cleared when they miss a game for Ballymena RFC. We all know that no other country in the world would get away with something so ludicrous.

The All Blacks have always acted as if they are above punishment. Its for the same for every citing or sanction they get. Its all one big accident where they usually try to paint themselves as the victim.

It defies belief therefore that Kiwi fans would whinge so fervently over something as innocuous as the SOB non incident.

by GunsGermsV2 Tue 08 Aug 2017, 9:18 am

eirebilly wrote:In all seriousness, I do not honestly believe the AB's have done wrong here. They have exposed a loophole in a ruling, if there is one expose it I say.

Blame the rule makers for not having a water tight ruling rather than ban the team that expose it.

Im sure most teams are aware of the loophole. Its unethical however to exploit it. Only the ABs would attempt it everyone else would take it on the chin.

by Guest Tue 08 Aug 2017, 9:33 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:I'll eat my hat if an Irish player appeals against a ban and get cleared when they miss a game for Ballymena RFC. We all know that no other country in the world would get away with something so ludicrous.

The All Blacks have always acted as if they are above punishment. Its for the same for every citing or sanction they get. Its all one big accident where they usually try to paint themselves as the victim.

It defies belief therefore that Kiwi fans would whinge so fervently over something as innocuous as the SOB non incident.

The hypocrisy you display in that comment about SOB defies belief. You wouldn't have seen a single kiwi defending SBW when he shoulder charged Watson. We took that on the chin. Pity SOB sympathisers can't suck it up and take thier medicine. It's because some folk like a double standard.

by **Rugby Fan** Tue 08 Aug 2017, 9:35 am

World Rugby don't seem to think there is a loophole. They just think the panel made a mistake.

While World Rugby respects the decision of the independent appeal committee to uphold the appeal by New Zealand’s Sonny Bill Williams against the matches that counted towards his four-week suspension, it is surprised by the committee’s interpretation of the definition of “match” (which is defined in Regulation 1 as “a game in which two teams compete against each other”).

With the appeal process having been exhausted, World Rugby will refer the interpretation of the regulation to the Regulations Committee when it meets in September to examine the findings in the context of the game’s regulations to ensure universal clarity and compliance with the meaning of the regulation moving forward.

http://www.worldrugby.org/news/268782?lang=en

The only loophole seems to be that the SANZAR panel had freedom to misinterpret World Rugby's own regulations.

by Guest Tue 08 Aug 2017, 9:44 am

Speaking of WR. We're still waiting on some feedback from them about how an offside player handling the ball can not be penalised. Still waiting WR.....tick tock tick tock.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Aug 2017, 10:00 am

You on about the drawn lions match? Didn't think they'd said they would clarify it?

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