How can Wales beat New Zealand?

First topic message reminder :

Maybe if they play in white or green instead of red they'll beat them, IMO.

ebop wrote:Hasn't stopped SOB from thinking he's god though

So in your view if a player talks about beating the ABs then he views himself as a god? Is that because you view the ABs as gods?  


Well they do say rugby is like a religion in NZ. It seems it is a religion for some.

profitius wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I dont think Wales are too far off to be honest. Maybe they need a good sports psychologist to give them the belief. I think if Schmidt was Wales coach they would beat the ABs.

How do you explain Ireland's world cup was a disaster while Wales were one of the teams of the world cup?

Wales one of the teams of the world cup really?

None of the 6 nations made it past the quarter finals and England and Italy went out in the pool stages.

It was a bad RWC for the 6 nations sides.

Ireland's world cup was a disaster while Wales were one of the teams of the world cup

Both teams went out in the QFs, and Ireland actually won more games in the tournament?

Agree with beshocked, none of the 6N teams were much cop at the WC.

Yes ireland won more games because Ireland had Italy and a bad France in our group while Wales had England and Aus. They lost their 1/4 final by 4 points to South Africa. Ireland got hammered by Argentina.

profitius wrote:Yes ireland won more games because Ireland had Italy and a bad France in our group while Wales had England and Aus. They lost their 1/4 final by 4 points to South Africa. Ireland got hammered by Argentina.

Yes, hammered big time, that Ireland didnt even fire a shot must reflect on Schmidt in his biggest assignment to date.

profitius wrote:Yes ireland won more games because Ireland had Italy and a bad France in our group while Wales had England and Aus. They lost their 1/4 final by 4 points to South Africa. Ireland got hammered by Argentina.

Although injuries played a big part in the RWC for Ireland (loosing POC was huge) I think it was mainly down to player management from Schmidt that cost Ireland.

Man for man, I would say Ireland are an individually better team than Wales but Wales are better managed. Ireland will put in the odd big game but lack severe consistency to be a threat to the top teams.

A lot of talk in the past has been about Schmidt being groomed to be the AB coach in the future but I cannot see for the life of me how this can be true, his conservative approach is totally against the AB's style of play.

Wales are a very well managed side but I think that they may be missing a strong attacking coach. Get a strong attacking coach to work with Gatland and I think Wales would be a very very good side and certainly good enough to push, if not beat, the AB's.

Gatland and Schmidt lack imagination and are dour. Irony being Cotter pushed the boat out for Scotland. Neither Gatland or Schmidt are AB material because they have NH mentalities. No thanks. You guys can keep em. Ex-NZers

ebop wrote:Gatland and Schmidt lack imagination and are dour

You've had a lot of imaginative coaches run the national team but you've had a few who would fall short of that description too.

Not sure how Schmidt is being written off as a poor coach when his record reads

68% win ratio overall -  2 6 nations titles.

50% record vs SA with 2 wins, 2 losses
33% vs NZ - 2 losses, 1 win
67% vs Australia - 2 wins , 1 loss.

That's a 50% record vs the tri nations - 5-5.


Compared to Gatland with Wales.... well Gatland has a win ratio of 47.37%.

His record vs the tri nations is laughably woeful.

0-10 vs NZ.

1-8 vs AUS with 8 in a row for the Aussies.

1-10 South Africa


2-28 vs tri nations.......


Gatland has a 6.6% win ratio vs tri nations.....


Wales have the worst record vs Australia out of England,Ireland,France and Scotland and themselves, that's not good!

beshocked wrote:Not sure how Schmidt is being written off as a poor coach when his record reads

68% win ratio overall -  2 6 nations titles.

50% record vs SA with 2 wins, 2 losses
33% vs NZ - 2 losses, 1 win
67% vs Australia - 2 wins , 1 loss.

That's a 50% record vs the tri nations - 5-5.


Compared to Gatland with Wales.... well Gatland has a win ratio of 47.37%.

His record vs the tri nations is laughably woeful.

0-10 vs NZ.

1-8 vs AUS with 8 in a row for the Aussies.

1-10 South Africa


2-28 vs tri nations.......


Gatland has a 6.6% win ratio vs tri nations.....


Wales have the worst record vs Australia out of England,Ireland,France and Scotland and themselves, that's not good!

I don't think anyone said Schmidt is a poor coach. I'm probably his biggest critic on here and I think he is a good coach but...


I think his brand of rugby is essentially flawed. Basically he wants to play a low risk defensive game and turn every match into a war of attrition. Thats incredibly hard on players but it works on occasions.


In the last 2 years the Ireland's form has started to fluctuate wildly. Thats always a bad sign IMO. Sure we might be 4rd in the world but Frane and SA are(were) a shambles. The provinces' have better records in the pro14 than Welsh, Scottish or Italian teams so being ahead of those isn't a major shock and Argentina have been poor for years (though hammered Ireland in the world cup).


Nothing Gatland can do if his team keep throwing away wins. Remember all those last minute defeats Wales suffered to SH opposition. Thats a mental problem. They've no problem getting the better of Ireland though. Any tight match they seem to come out on top. Ireland are just so easy to defend against from a tactical point of view.


One other thing which has me really doubting Schmidt. In the 3 matches played this summer (USA + Japan + Japan), Ireland were very good in the first two, playing good offloading rugby and scoring tries. In the third and final match against Japan, it was the same old Ireland. Negative, low risk rugby. Its like the man coaches flair out of the team.


Maybe he might see the light and play more attacking rugby this season. I've been saying that for a few years now though!

eirebilly wrote:

profitius wrote:Yes ireland won more games because Ireland had Italy and a bad France in our group while Wales had England and Aus. They lost their 1/4 final by 4 points to South Africa. Ireland got hammered by Argentina.

Although injuries played a big part in the RWC for Ireland (loosing POC was huge) I think it was mainly down to player management from Schmidt that cost Ireland.

Man for man, I would say Ireland are an individually better team than Wales but Wales are better managed. Ireland will put in the odd big game but lack severe consistency to be a threat to the top teams.

A lot of talk in the past has been about Schmidt being groomed to be the AB coach in the future but I cannot see for the life of me how this can be true, his conservative approach is totally against the AB's style of play.

Wales are a very well managed side but I think that they may be missing a strong attacking coach. Get a strong attacking coach to work with Gatland and I think Wales would be a very very good side and certainly good enough to push, if not beat, the AB's.

I concur.

profitius wrote:

beshocked wrote:Not sure how Schmidt is being written off as a poor coach when his record reads

68% win ratio overall -  2 6 nations titles.

50% record vs SA with 2 wins, 2 losses
33% vs NZ - 2 losses, 1 win
67% vs Australia - 2 wins , 1 loss.

That's a 50% record vs the tri nations - 5-5.


Compared to Gatland with Wales.... well Gatland has a win ratio of 47.37%.

His record vs the tri nations is laughably woeful.

0-10 vs NZ.

1-8 vs AUS with 8 in a row for the Aussies.

1-10 South Africa


2-28 vs tri nations.......


Gatland has a 6.6% win ratio vs tri nations.....


Wales have the worst record vs Australia out of England,Ireland,France and Scotland and themselves, that's not good!

I don't think anyone said Schmidt is a poor coach. I'm probably his biggest critic on here and I think he is a good coach but...


I think his brand of rugby is essentially flawed. Basically he wants to play a low risk defensive game and turn every match into a war of attrition. Thats incredibly hard on players but it works on occasions.


In the last 2 years the Ireland's form has started to fluctuate wildly. Thats always a bad sign IMO. Sure we might be 4rd in the world but Frane and SA are(were) a shambles. The provinces' have better records in the pro14 than Welsh, Scottish or Italian teams so being ahead of those isn't a major shock and Argentina have been poor for years (though hammered Ireland in the world cup).


Nothing Gatland can do if his team keep throwing away wins. Remember all those last minute defeats Wales suffered to SH opposition. Thats a mental problem. They've no problem getting the better of Ireland though. Any tight match they seem to come out on top. Ireland are just so easy to defend against from a tactical point of view.


One other thing which has me really doubting Schmidt. In the 3 matches played this summer (USA + Japan + Japan), Ireland were very good in the first two, playing good offloading rugby and scoring tries. In the third and final match against Japan, it was the same old Ireland. Negative, low risk rugby. Its like the man coaches flair out of the team.


Maybe he might see the light and play more attacking rugby this season. I've been saying that for a few years now though!

Ireland beat NZ and England though. Stopping 2 long unbeaten runs in the process.

Ireland can beat the best. Wales cannot.

Yes at times Ireland aren't exciting to watch but then again it's been effective.


Wales are not the benchmark, it is better for Ireland to lose to Wales but show the capability to beat the best whilst Wales might be able to beat Ireland but struggle vs the tri nations and they've only won 1 of their last 6 games vs England.


Wales are not going forwards. They need to get rid of Gatland and Howley.