Montreal 2017

by sirfredperry Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

If Rafa reaches the semis in Canada he will be back at number one. So far, delpo has seen off Isner in straight sets, with Kyrgios, Monfils, Gasquet and Ferrer (who beat Edmund in three) among the other winners.
It's back to the old days, with Rafa and Rog the top two seeds. Long way to go before a final between these two, though, although the way things have gone this year another meeting is certainly a possibility.

by Belovedluckyboy Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:39 pm

Well I doubt Shapo would beat A Zverev. Fed already had his fair shares of beatings at the hands of teenagers - first by Berdych, then Rafa, Gasquet, Murray and Djoko, and lately A Zverev - so one more teenager Shapo won't make a difference to him!

Come to think of it, Rafa's generation of players are really something, five of them as teenagers beating the then no.1 Fed (from. 2004-2007), all five of them then reached top ten during their careers with two of them being all time greats.

by sirfredperry Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:56 pm

Didn't think Denis would have much left after his heroics against Rafa. But I think Zverev will be too much for him. Fed was clearly a bit patchy against Ferrer but, from the stats, served much better against R BA and should see off Haase.
Should it come to a Rog-Zverev final, that will be a bit harder to call. Could depend on who's the fresher. Rog took only 68 mins last night and hasn't played since Wimbledon, while Zverev has been on court a lot lately.

by reckoner Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:06 pm

SFP, I'm not writing the Shap him off just yet. Kid's 18, playing in front of a home crowd, with nothing to lose.

Fed's clearly playing this in lieu of training so I'm not reading too much into his form right now. His match against RBA seemed to me to be about Fed trying things out at the net.

As for BLB's point about Rafa's generation beating Fed coming up - how about we flip that? Fed had to deal with an exceptional set of up and coming players. Who did Nadal & company have to deal with?

BLB Kyrgios, Coric, Shap have beaten Nadal as teenagers. Smile

by sirfredperry Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:22 pm

Just been watching some clips of Denis. He sure gives it a good whack and looks quick around the court. Always exciting to see young players coming through, but far too early to say whether DS is the real thing.

by reckoner Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:29 pm

I'm not as risk averse as you SFP, I think Den-Shap is the real deal. He's been around for a while and anyone that can take Nadal out from a set down has laudable intestinal fortitude in my book.

by Belovedluckyboy Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:06 pm

Reckoner, only Kygrios had beaten Rafa when Rafa was no.1! All those I mentioned who had beaten Fed were during Fed's reign as no.1, that's the difference!

by Belovedluckyboy Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:14 pm

Coric beat Rafa both times when Rafa wasn't physically fit. - in 2014 at Basel when Rafa had appendicitis; at Cincy last year when Rafa hadn't fully recovered from left wrist injury.

We'll see whether Shapo is the real deal; Kygrios was also having the fortitude when he beat Rafa at a slam (Wimbledon) but he hasn't lived up to expectations. Outside of Canada, without the crowd support, I think Shapo will come down to earth. We shall see.....

by lags72 Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:19 pm

Oh dear.

We could start listing the number of losses Rafa suffers to guys outside the top 100, but I thought this er ...pointless .... point-scoring had pretty much died off with the old 606. Seemingly not.

Fedal are not the future of the sport and will both be gone from the scene before too long. Until then best just enjoy what they each continue to bring - and see how well they can delay the eventual, inevitable, rise to the top of the NextGen young blood.

by Belovedluckyboy Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:25 pm

Lags, I can also make a list of Fed's losses to guys outside top 100! Not going to do that, in view of the pro Fed posters here!

I also doubt many posters here enjoy Rafa's revival this year the way they enjoy Fed's.

by lags72 Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:48 pm

Yes of course you could Blb.

Though I'm not sure what use it would be - any more than your thing about teenagers beating Federer is of any use. There really is nothing new under the sun, as they say, and virtually every argument /theory can be countered with another one from a different perspective.

I'm surprised by your concern as to pro-Fed posters, or whether or not posters 'enjoy' Rafa's revival, as you perceive it. What does it matter either way ....?

I think a Forum goes off the rails quickly when you get the sort of nonsense we regularly saw from so many of the childish WUM's on the old 606. But thankfully that largely disappeared when they eventually realised they were achieving very little.

Personally I don't judge sporting achievement or status by what unqualified folk (including me !) tapping on a keyboard may have to say. All hot air at the end of the day ........ Very Happy

by LuvSports! Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:48 pm

Shap is a uuuuge talent. For me maybe the most talented of the youngsters. Wonderful potential at 18!

by kwinigolfer Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:49 pm

Back to Shapo,
I think he will have to play qualies just to get into the US Open. Are there any other avenues open to him?

Rafa completely lost his composure in Thursday's match, not happy at all to be beaten but largely had himself to blame.

by Belovedluckyboy Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:59 pm

Well lags, every time after a Nadal loss, we get certain people celebrating here, it's getting sickening! Someone mentioned the teenager meeting Fed in the final may mean a teenager beating Fed and I just expanded from there, that that's not the first time a teenager had beaten Fed! Anything wrong? And then I have the responses ....and then yours!

by Belovedluckyboy Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:05 pm

Rafa had himself to blame. He said he couldn't feel the ball, hence so many overhitting or mishitting, and even serving into the net. He's frustrated enough, more so with the crowd cheering his errors; he lost his composure and instead of taking more risk and stepped inside the court, he retreated to further behind the baseline and played more defensively. His shots were lending short, not helped by his court position so far back.

by lags72 Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:21 pm

Ok Blb.

You're referring in particular (I think ...?) to a recent post about desperately wanting to see Rafa's retirement etc. FWIW, I myself actually felt it was rather a distasteful comment, although I tend to dismiss such stuff immediately after I've read it. I don't know whether it was said in jest or not - but either way I don't see any benefit, or value, in 'celebrating' losses here on the Forum (though I'm well aware all of us do so at various times 'in private') - simply because it contributes virtually nothing to constructive discussion of the sport overall.

I really really don't like outright abuse directed at any player. But equally I don't think it's worth getting too stressed out by biased views/comment that stay within the limits of decency. Sometimes I think too much attention is given to Fedal - but then again they have been the story of 2017 (Federer all the more so it seems, given his age and length of layoff), and for as long as they continue to make waves right at the very top level of the sport, that's unlikely to change just yet.

by summerblues Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:52 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote: Yep and it would be great to see the teenager win wouldn't it ?

Ha Ha. I am not going lie, if they play I will root for Fed. But Shapovalov is one of those rare cases where I would also be ok if he won. I really like his game and there is no denying it would be exciting if we had an 18-year old Masters 1000 champion. Especially if he managed to do it while beating both Rafa and Fed (who will be top two ranked players after next week).

But I am getting ahead of myself. Neither Shapovalov not Fed are even in the final yet.

by Haddie-nuff Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:05 am

and lets hope one of them isn't Wink

by summerblues Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:07 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:and lets hope one of them isn't

LOL. I cannot say I share the sentiment but I like your post Smile

by reckoner Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:14 am

I am not a Rafa fan, but I don't wish him anything other than a full career.

It's a bit unhinged to wish early retirement on a tennis player in my humble opinion. If you don't like their style don't watch their matches!

I am a Federer fan, but would be absolutely fine with Le Shap beating him, because Shap plays attacking tennis and I find his style enjoyable to watch.

by reckoner Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:23 am

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Reckoner, only Kygrios had beaten Rafa when Rafa was no.1! All those I mentioned who had beaten Fed were during Fed's reign as no.1, that's the difference!

That's just because Nadal couldn't manage to be number 1 for long compared to Federer.

Are you really going to try to convince me Nadal is somehow better than Federer BLB?

by lags72 Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:28 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:and lets hope one of them isn't

That's not a nice way to talk about Shapovalov.

Just because he beat Rafa doesn't mean you should wish him ill.

by reckoner Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:30 am

lags72 wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:and lets hope one of them isn't

That's not a nice way to talk about Shapovalov.

Just because he beat Rafa doesn't mean you should wish him ill.

by Haddie-nuff Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:07 am

lags72 wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:and lets hope one of them isn't

That's not a nice way to talk about Shapovalov.

Just because he beat Rafa doesn't mean you should wish him ill.

by summerblues Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:25 am

I suggest I would like to see three 30+ year-old players retire and accusations of "desperation" and "unhinged-ness" appear. So, for the more sensitive ones:

How about Rafa, Nole and Andy play another five years of healthy, albeit slamless, tennis and then, when they are all 35+, they ease into happy retirement in the midst of their loving families and precocious children. In July 2023 they all meet at Wimbledon, have some (luckily gluten-free) Pimm's, talk about the past glories, all the while watching Fed lift yet another Wimbledon trophy.

by lags72 Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:27 am

I sense - wrongly or rightly - that you sometimes get a little dispirited & tetchy when your man goes out early, Haddie-nuff.

But hey, relax, and don't forget .... it's only a game ! Cool

These days I try to watch tennis like Borg does. All chilled. But of course I don't get freebies to the Royal Box like my mate Bjorn does (bit unfair, don't you think ....?)

Even Federer has been beaten twice already this year, according to an ATP piece I just read. If he were to lose here in Montreal to one of the youngsters (always assuming he gets past Haase), then I for one wouldn't be overly-surprised ; certainly far less surprised than a loss to someone even more ancient himself (well done, Tommy H !)

by Haddie-nuff Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:42 am

Lags its this that makes me tetchy

by summerblues on Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:37 pm

+
----
-
Hopefully this is how the rest of Rafa's HC season will go. He is 31 now, maybe time to retire

My dream is to see Rafa, Nole and Andy retire later this year or early next year, and see them all at Wimbledon next year watching Fed lift the trophy

The fact that Rafa has gone out early is unimportant to me ...not least because my husband has just died..so. sorry to disappoint.
SB is nauseating in his repetitive obsessive anti-nadal comments and his idol worship of Federer that I could not refrain from comment.. so I will not apologise given my present frame of mind

by reckoner Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:53 am

That's terrible @Haddie-nuff, my condolences on your loss.

by Haddie-nuff Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:59 am

Thank you reckoner, I come to the forum purely for something to do rather than to comment normally , it beats looking at four walls, but though will always be a fan of Rafa (he doesn't deserve that kind of comment) even tennis doesn't mean much anymore

by Belovedluckyboy Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:11 am

Sorry to hear about your loss, Haddie; my condolences!

by Haddie-nuff Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:13 am

Thank you BLB

by Belovedluckyboy Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:13 am

And reckoner, whether Rafa is no.1 or not, it won't change the fact that Fed had lost to more teenagers than Rafa had, and during Fed's heydays when he's at his peak!

by reckoner Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:15 am

I hope you have support from friends and family Haddie-nuff.

I wish you well at this most difficult of times as I'm sure everyone on the forum does, no matter which tennis player they support.

Take good care.

by reckoner Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:19 am

Belovedluckyboy wrote:And reckoner, whether Rafa is no.1 or not, it won't change the fact that Fed had lost to more teenagers than Rafa had, and during Fed's heydays when he's at his peak!

In light of Haddie's news it is no longer appropriate to continue with this nonsense. I am drawing a line, please do not persist.

by Belovedluckyboy Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:26 am

SB @ 11:25 pm

Fat hope that Fed will be lifting that trophy in 2023! More like he being the oldest losing slam finalist in history (or at least in the open era) looking on, clapping sadly, as he watched the winner, A Zverev perhaps, or the now much hyped up Shapo, lifting that much coveted (by Fed) trophy! While the three already retired 'musketeers' looked on from the stands, wondering what Fed is doing out there, still not wanting to retire and still trying very hard to win that coveted trophy which he has already won several times; marveling at the same time that Fed at that ripe old age still makes the final and can't help but question the quality of the field out there. They are wondering how come they could beat a Fed during his heydays but these younger players out there let Fed get past them to reach a slam final.

by Belovedluckyboy Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:27 am

Reckoner, noted.

by Haddie-nuff Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:30 am

reckoner wrote:I hope you have support from friends and family Haddie-nuff.

I wish you well at this most difficult of times as I'm sure everyone on the forum does, no matter which tennis player they support.

Take good care.

Thank you reckoner .. as you may be aware I live in Spain my friends here have been good but its time (after 17yrs ) to return to my family in the UK.

by CaledonianCraig Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:32 am

Sincere condolences Haddie-nuff. Keep your chin up. Thinking of you at this tough time.

by Belovedluckyboy Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:32 am

Ok, we should stop posting all these stuff which are not important to say the least.

Sorry about Haddie's loss; do take care Haddie.

by sirfredperry Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:40 am

H-nuff. Very sorry about your sad news.

by summerblues Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:45 am

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Fat hope that Fed will be lifting that trophy in 2023!

by lags72 Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:59 am

H-n : I remember you making reference in a post, a little while back, to your very sad recent loss. IIRC, I don't believe I said anything at the time - but I will certainly offer my condolences now.

I can't speak for others but I myself wasn't looking for any apology, so no worries there. And I feel that my earlier comment about tennis being "only a game" is perhaps even more appropriate than I thought when writing it.

by sirfredperry Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:00 am

One thing that Fed might aim for is an appearance at the 2020 Olympics. I recall being astonished that he was excited about 2012 in London when the UK capital got awarded the Games back in 05. Gosh, I thought, Fed will be well past it by 2012, only for him to win Wimbledon that year, return to number one and make the Gold Medal match.
Reckoned he was equally silly to target 2016 Olympics but having missed that one he could conceivably want to hang around for the 2020 Games.

by summerblues Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:08 am

He might want to hang around until 2020. But, let's be realistic, he is not winning those Olympics. This year has looked like 2006 all over again but I do not expect that it will either last or that it will be followed by a slow slide like a drop from #1 might be at a younger age. I think just as it came it can just snap one day and he will be losing in early rounds before we know it.

by summerblues Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:09 am

But, in the meantime, good luck to Roger and Denis today, let's have a nice final tomorrow!

by Haddie-nuff Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:20 am

Thank you for all your good wishes.. life goes on with or without tennis . Hug

I leave Rafa in good hands BLB

by sirfredperry Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:47 am

Fed thru to final after 6-4, 7-6 victory over Haase. Rog was broken in first set but got two breaks to take it. No BPs in second set which was won by Fed 7-5 on the tiebreak.
Have only followed scores and have not seen any of it. Probably a closer match than most expected.

by lags72 Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:34 am

1st set was 6-3 I believe, sfp.

by **laverfan** Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:08 am

The second was much closer in Federer v Haase. IIRC, Haase came back from 4-1 down in second set TB to 5-4 up.

by reckoner Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:15 am

All looks like a glorified practice sesh for Federer thus far.

I'd expect Zverev to give him a harder time tomorrow, if he gets past Le Shapeau!

by reckoner Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:59 am

Tsk, Le Shapo down a set.

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