London Irish 2017/18 thread - Return to the Premiership.

[Ozzy3213]

Welcome to this seasons thread for talking about all things London Irish.

Technical Director: Brendan Venter
Director of Rugby: Nick Kennedy

Forwards Coach: George Skivington
Defence Coach: Declan Danaher
Attack/Skills Coach: Paul Hodgson
Kicking Coach: Charlie Hodgson

Senior Squad (46)

Hooker: David Paice, Saia Fainga'a, David Porecki, Darren Dawidiuk, Todd Gleave 
Prop: Gordon Reid, Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi, Tom Smallbone, Harry Elrington, Ben Franks, Petrus du Plessis, Lovely Chawatama, Manasa Saulo, Richard Palframan, Ollie Hoskins
Second Row: Sebastien de Chaves, Will Lloyd, Josh McNally, Teofilo Paulo, Franco van der Merwe
Back Row: Blair Cowan, Ofisa Treviranus, Jake Schatz, Connor Gilsenen, Lasha Lomidze, Mike Coman, Max Northcote-Green, Senitiki Nayalo

Scrum Half: Brendan McKibbin, Scott Steele, Ben Meehan
Fly Half: James Marshall, Theo Brophy-Clews
Centre: Johnny Williams, Fergus Mulchrone, Ciaran Hearn, Luke McLean
Wing: Alex Lewington, Joe Cokanasiga, Napolioni Nalaga, Aseli Tikoroituma, Topsy Ojo, Ben Ransom, Tom Fowlie
Full Back: Tommy Bell, Greig Tonks


Senior Academy Squad (10)

Lock: Sam Collingridge
Back Row: Isaac Curtis-Harris, Jack Cooke, Josh Basham
Scrum Half: Rory Brand
Fly Half: Jacob Atkins
Centre: Matt Williams
Wing: Ollie Hassell-Collins, Ben Loader
Full Back: Tom Parton


Preview

It's pretty hard to judge this London Irish squad against the teams that it will face this season, as being newly promoted there is no recent physical evidence with which to make a comparison.  What we can say is that during our last season in the Premiership we were not good enough, that is an indisputable fact.

Much however has changed since then.  Tom Coventry left and in his place stepped up Nick Kennedy as Director of Rugby, with his able deputies from the academy, Declan Danaher and Paul Hodgson alongside him.  Whilst this coaching set up was inexperienced, the man brought in to oversea things was certainly not.  Step forward Brendan Venter as technical director.  Now much has been said about a change in culture at Irish last season but you have to do more than just scratch the surface of names on a piece of paper to understand what that means, and in many regards it is difficult to quantify.

Midway through last season however I was fortunate enough to chat to one of the players, who shall remain nameless, but who told me this.  He said that under the Coventry regime your face either fitted or it didn't.  If you were not in the inner circle there was blame and criticism but little in the way of encouragement or assistance to improve.  Now however he said that the coaches were open and there was dialogue between them and the players, and Venter, whilst fierce and a force of nature who would tell you exactly what you had done wrong in a game, was also approachable and would listen to your viewpoint, and help you to improve from any mistakes you did make, and that honesty and openness was now a feature throughout the squad and coaches.  That, I have to say is a significant shift in mindset and that almost freedom to make mistakes without being paralysed by the fear of failure may be a key factor once this season gets underway.

On paper, which is all we can go by until we see this side play, the squad is stronger than when we went down, and stronger than when we won the Championship in May.  Recruitment, wisely in my opinion has been more forward focused than backs, with a 9-3 split in that regard, including experienced campaigners Petrus du Plessis (from Saracens) and Franco van der Merwe (from Ulster via Cardiff), alongside international front rowers Gordon Reid and Saia Faingaa.  Neither Venter nor Kennedy are daft, our season will not be defined by whether we are able to chuck the ball about at will, we will stand or fall on whether we can gain parity or better up front often enough to pick up points.  To that end, our most important back this year is not likely to be the expansive James Marshall or explosive Napolioni Nalaga, but the metronomic Tommy Bell, who racked up the points from tee in The Championship and will need to do so again in the Premiership this year.

There isn't really much more to say, we just don't know until the first ball is kicked what we are going to get.  My general thoughts on the Premiership are that Sarries, Wasps, Chiefs, Bath and Tigers are in a league of five competing for the four play off spots, and the remaining seven teams are all fairly even, with all having the positives, but all having some major weaknesses that could be exploited by the others.  What order those seven (us included) finish in is anybodies guess, and luck, injuries and momentum will play a part.  We need to start better than we did two years ago when we picked up zero points from our first five matches, if we can get some early momentum, then who knows, a decent mid table finish may not be out of the question.

Prediction:  Anywhere from 6th to 12th!

[George Carlin]

Completely agree that you should have parity with the chasing pack Ozzy and I also agree that the overall squad is stronger now. Goal should be to win all of your home matches and find a halfback hinge that delivers week in, week out. The pack should give you a reasonable platform and then it comes down to finding combinations that work and players who like each other.

Good luck brother.

[Ozzy3213]

Thanks George.


Franco van der Merwe finally confirmed officially.....  http://www.london-irish.com/news/london-irish-sign-springbok-lock/bp1474/

[Ozzy3213]

https://bikesballsandwellbeing.wordpress.com/2017/09/01/london-irish-vs-harlequins-match-preview/

Match preview for the Quins game.

[Driver]

Good luck to all my London Irish supporting friends this season except for them trips to the north east.

Bought really well from the looks of things.

[Ozzy3213]

cheers Driver, good luck to your lads as well mate.


https://bikesballsandwellbeing.wordpress.com/2017/09/03/london-irish-stats-ratings-match-report-vs-harlequins/

Match report of sorts written by me if anyone fancies a read.

[George Carlin]

Irish win!

[Ozzy3213]

We did indeed George. Very happy with that result, and the performance. It wasn't perfect, but it was a level up from anything we produced in our relegation season.

[Hazel Sapling]

Generally looks like you rated the Scots who played. Is Tonks likely to be playing more 10 or 15 this season?

Is Reid going to be first choice going into the season or is this more there are 2 good looseheads rotating?

[Ozzy3213]

Generally looks like you rated the Scots who played. Is Tonks likely to be playing more 10 or 15 this season?

Is Reid going to be first choice going into the season or is this more there are 2 good looseheads rotating?

Tonks will be 2nd choice at 10 and 15 for now with Theo Brophy-Clews injured. Once he's fit he will be vying for the 10 jersey and we may see Tonks more at full back. That said he was excellent at 12 on Saturday, although I don't expect to see him playing there a huge amount.

Reid will have to fight for the starting jersey. Hobbs-Awoyemi was very good for us last year and played really well on Saturday, and Kendo has said that the new guys will have to earn their spots. I would imagine as the season goes on they will rotate a fair bit to keep them fresh, as behind them it's a bit of step down to a young and improving Harry Elrington, and a just returning from a year out injured Tom Smallbone (has the potential to be very good but had a serious injury so we just don't know what he's going to be like).

[RDW]

Good afternoon London Irish fans!

A group of us are considering coming to the London Irish-Edinburgh game in October (we live in London).

Any recommendations for where to sit, how to get to the stadium, good nearby boozers etc?

Thanks!

[Heaf2]

Hi RDW,

You get a decent view from all seats in the stadium but my preference would be the West or East stands as they are 'side-on' to the pitch (and depending on numbers they may not open both other stands anyway). Obviously the nearer the half-way line the better and then it's whether you prefer to be up higher for the overall view (in which case I'd say Upper West) or nearer the action - but if you are in the Lower West stand I'm not sure you'd be undercover from about rows L/M down if it rains. Not sure about the East stand as I've never been on that side.

Assuming you're coming by train there's a shuttle bus from Reading station and a decent pub (so I've heard as I've not been in there) near the station is The Three Guineas. There are bars once you get in the stadium plus in the attached hotel but no pubs particularly near the stadium.

Cheers

Heaf

[Heaf2]

PS any idea what 'suspicious activity' was detected that resulted in my previous account being locked and why that stupid type-the-word thing doesn't work to unlock it

[George Carlin]

PS any idea what 'suspicious activity' was detected that resulted in my previous account being locked and why that stupid type-the-word thing doesn't work to unlock it  

You weren't rude about Gareth Edwards were you? It's a lifetime ban if you do that.

[Heaf2]

Nope I'm the model of good behaviour

[Smudge21]

A couple of tough games recently. This week is huge against northampton as these are the games at home that we need to be competitive in. Any news on the injuries from Friday night?

[Ozzy3213]

It certainly has been a tough couple of games Smudge, but I’m not hitting the panic button just yet. I said at the start of the season that we would know where we are at after 5 games. I had us down for a best case scenario of 5 points at this point and that is what we have. If we are still on five points in two games time I will be concerned as that would be behind where I forecast us to be.

What was evident on Friday night was that Sale had worked out our defensive system, and threw long miss passes early to exploit space on the outside and make yards. The coaching team will need to be looking at what we do and possibly tweaking it to make us more solid again. This weekend is huge. Saints responded positively to their drubbing by Saracens and have bagged two very good wins at home. We need to be up and at it from the off, and get on the scoreboard early to settle the nerves, which will then hopefully stop some of the knock ons that resulted from trying to force the play when we were behind on Friday.

Injury wise, I’ve no idea what we look like, but Hobbs-Awoyemi and Coman will be big losses, as was shown on Friday night, if they are not available.

[Smudge21]

Fingers crossed reid is fit as although I rate Elrington highly I'm not sure he's ready to start prem games yet. Coman is a big concern as he seems to be one of the defensive leaders of the team and with mulchrone already sidelined it's not looking good. Hopefully Johnny is back at 12 or potentially tonks at 12 and Johnny at 13?
Northampton will get it out wide I'm sure having seen what sale did to us so let's hope the coaches have adjusted the tactics

[EWT Spoons]

Fingers crossed reid is fit as although I rate Elrington highly I'm not sure he's ready to start prem games yet. Coman is a big concern as he seems to be one of the defensive leaders of the team and with mulchrone already sidelined it's not looking good. Hopefully Johnny is back at 12 or potentially tonks at 12 and Johnny at 13?
Northampton will get it out wide I'm sure having seen what sale did to us so let's hope the coaches have adjusted the tactics  

According to a Scottish journalist, who is generally pretty reliable, Reid is out for 3 months due to it being his 3rd concussion of the year. He's been rated doubtful for Scotland's autumn tests.

[Smudge21]

Bugger! I guess Elrington is going to have to step up to the plate with smallbone on the bench to ease him back into things after his injury

[SirBurger]

That's a massive loss on top of Danny being out. Bugger indeed!

[George Carlin]

Fingers crossed reid is fit as although I rate Elrington highly I'm not sure he's ready to start prem games yet. Coman is a big concern as he seems to be one of the defensive leaders of the team and with mulchrone already sidelined it's not looking good. Hopefully Johnny is back at 12 or potentially tonks at 12 and Johnny at 13?
Northampton will get it out wide I'm sure having seen what sale did to us so let's hope the coaches have adjusted the tactics  

According to a Scottish journalist, who is generally pretty reliable, Reid is out for 3 months due to it being his 3rd concussion of the year.  He's been rated doubtful for Scotland's autumn tests.

Although if you're Glasgwegian, that only counts as one.

[Ozzy3213]

Hobbs-Awoyemi confirmed as a ruptured achilles. That's his season over already.

[Ozzy3213]

Tough watch yesterday. That first half hour was as shoddy a defensive display as I have ever seen from us. The first three Saints tries were all very preventable. I don’t mind us getting beat, provided the opposition have had to work for it, and yesterday that wasn’t the case, we gifted them a 19 point lead.

Kendo and the coaches have a real job on their hands to get the mentality right from kick off, as we can’t keep going behind and having to play catch up rugby.

[Ecksile]

Ozzy, I don't think any of us mind Irish getting beaten but it's just the same thing all the time. I was almost slack jawed with amazement at those first 6 or 7 minutes, shipping 2 tries to Saints effectively ended the game before it had started.

What was so frustrating yesterday was that had those first 2 tries been removed (I know, I know) then we were much more competitive. Any time we come within 5 metres of the try line, we have just got to score; yet it ends with another handling error.

Looking ahead, what are the games where we can win? It's going to be a long season at this rate.

[Ozzy3213]

My view is that it's very small margins Ecksile, but we need to learn quickly and sharpen up as those small margins when lumped on top of each other can make for heavy losses. Last week was a case in point up at Sale, where despite being behind we started to get into the game before the half, only to drop the ball on their 5 metre line and watch Solomona go the length of the field and under the sticks. If we hold the ball there and get across the line we go in at the break 7-17 down and with momentum instead of 0-24 down and out of the game.

They are small fixes that are required as I say, and I've not lost hope just yet, as when we do get it right we showed yesterday that we can produce some effective attacking rugby.

I know a lot of people are looking at Falcons this week and saying we have no chance, and for sure it will be very tough up at their place, but the reality is that it's 15 blokes against 15 other blokes, and if our lads get it right on the night there is no reason why we can't bag a win. We have a better side than during our last two seasons in the Premiership and I'm pretty sure we won away games against Tigers and Saracens in that period, neither of which we were expected to win.

[stnick88]

Interesting to see what side we put out on Friday. Personally I would go with;

1 Franks
2 Paice
3 Du Plessis
4 Van Der Merwe
5 De Chaves
6 McInally
7 Cowan
8 Trev
9 Steele
10 Marshall
11 Nalaga
12 Williams
13 Hearn
14 Lewington
15 Bell

Elrington, Hoskins, Porecki, Paulo, Shatz, McKibbin, Tonks, Tikorotuma

We need to be more solid in the centres. we look weak whenever the opposition run at us. Tiks is a good player but I think Hearn is probably more solid. Williams had a solid game yesterday. Arguably, Tonks deserves a start, maybe Williams to 13 and Tonks at 12. Gilsenan had a stinker and Mcinally grew in to the game at 6 and was probably our best forward. Having Trev back will be a big plus (assuming he will be back as was just a one week out for concussion).

[Ozzy3213]

I wouldn't argue with too much of that Nick. I've often been critical of Tiks defensive ability at 13 but thought he did a reasonable job yesterday, certainly the equal of what Hearn has produced this season so far. Centre is most definitely a big problem for us, as outside of Williams and Mulchrone the rest realistically are not really Premiership standard.

If Trev isn't fit I would start Schatz at 8, as Blair is not an 8 at all and needs to be back at 7 next week. I'm also hoping that Meehan is fit as McKibbin has had back to back stinkers and for me needs to be left out of the 23 and sort his game out.

[stnick88]

Meehan wont be fit, he was in a boot in the Guiness Lounge before the game answering questions with Cokanasiga.

[Ozzy3213]

I heard he was in a boot, but I also heard from somebody that he said that he's ready to go Friday night. I'm told the injury was a bruised heel.

[stnick88]

I'll try and find out. we certainly could do with him. he looked good in pre-season, really bosses the pack and has a bullet pass. Mckibbin was really off the pace yesterday, Steele improved things.

[Smudge21]

Noticeable on Sunday how slow mckibbins pass was, based on what I saw in pre season meehan has an absolute bullet pass and passes in front of the attacker enabling them to run onto the ball which is something I didn't see on Sunday.
Personally I'd make a few changes this week as it's a short turnaround...
Elrington
Paice
Franks
Mcnally
De chaves
Gilsenan
Cowan
Schatz (Trev if fit?)
Steele
Nalaga
Williams
Tiks
Lewington
Bell
Faingaa
Hoskins
Du Plessis
Franco
Paulo
Meehan
Tonks
Ransom
A few controversial decisions in here, feel like petrus was a bit tired on Sunday and was slow to get up and didn't do too well set piece wise so give Elrington a crack.
Think mcnally deserves a crack at lock as he's not a 6, nothing against franco i just think mcnally deserves a shot
Also think gilly deserves another shot with Cowan moving to the flank
Backs largely unchanged other than at scrum half, just hope they've done lots of defencive work!

[SirBurger]

Hearn should be more solid in defence than Tiks, but the reality is that he isn’t. He slips off tackles all the time. Being brutal here, but I really don’t know why we renewed that contract. Fergus can’t come back soon enough.

[stnick88]

desperately need Fergus back.

Gilsenan was non existent on the weekend. Northcote-Green played for the A's, maybe give him a go?

[SirBurger]

I know Gilsenan is very popular with the fans but he would be a fair way down my pecking order I’m afraid. Schatz in at 8 and Blair to revert to 7 hopefully, unless Lomidze is ready. Disappointing to hear he hasn’t shown much in the A League. Some have described him as looking under powered which is a surprise when he has performed physically for Georgia.

My concern is most fans identified 3 areas where we looked short before the season - lock, outside centre and a ball carrier at 8. We only seem to have remedied one of those.

[stnick88]

Apparently Lomidze hasn't impressed the club at all so be surprised if he gets a start anytime soon. Shatz more likely to. Blair has to play 7. I'd like to see Paice starting, not sure why Porecki has started over him last couple of games. Be good to have Fainga'a on the bench as I imagine he can add some impact and experience.

[SirBurger]

Interesting.

Porecki over Paice also makes no sense to me either. Faingaa looked good in the A League against Bristol apparently.

[Ozzy3213]

With Gilsenan you generally get a good defensive work rate with a high tackle count, but he offers little in terms of carrying and his work at the ruck is not brilliant. Northcote-Green looked very good before injury last year, and if he’s fit and good to go I’d be tempted to start him at 6 Friday, with Blair at 7 and in the absence of big Trev, Schatz at 8.

[stnick88]

We really need Trev fit. I am pretty sure he just had to miss a game because of being concussed v Sale. Northcote is a bit more physical than Gilsenan and looked like he could be a nuisance at the breakdown.

I expect us to lose on Friday but think we will definitely win more games this season once we sort out some defensive issues and get a few of the newbies some more game time and match fit.

[Driver]

Heading up to the game this weekend.. dare to say it will be a higher scorer with our backs looking pretty good in the loose.

[Smudge21]

Northcote green is certainly more physical more in the mould of an underhill type player.
Porecki is a pretty decent carrier of the ball and I thought he went okay on Sunday. Ball carrying is an area we struggle with so perhaps the coaches thought Porecki should get the nod. On the subject of ball carrying, I have a feeling Paulo could be quite useful so will be interesting to see him more his season. Also Nayalo seemed to play lock in pre season which could be a good move as he could turn out to be a bit of a monster at lock although he could end up being a flop, will be interesting!

[Margin_Walker]

Hearn should be more solid in defence than Tiks, but the reality is that he isn’t. He slips off tackles all the time. Being brutal here, but I really don’t know why we renewed that contract. Fergus can’t come back soon enough.

Agree with that, it's the renewal that caught me off guard too. Can only imagine that he's not costing very much.

A few excellent moments apart (tries against Gloucester and Worcester during the last prem campaign), he's a big step down from Mulchrone. Also not EQP etc.

We all knew we were short of quality in the centre before the season started. Just need to find a solution that papers over the cracks with the resources we have. Would be tempted to stick with Tiks for the moment.

[Smudge21]

Yep if we can survive this season and then sign a quality 13 that would be fantastic. Two big ifs however.
In the meantime whilst mulchrone is away our options at 13 are tiks, hearn, McLean, fowlie and matt Williams. In that list you have 3 senior players who aren't good enough at this level, one injury prone youngster who hasn't fulfilled his potential and an academy player. Not good.
Tiks probably deserves another chance but if that doesn't go well then could you go with a centre partnership of tonks at 12 and Johnny at 13? I know Johnny hasn't played there much but he's got all the skills to do so. If not I'd be interested to see how matt Williams goes in Europe (hopefully he plays) inheritance does well,stick him in!
How long till Fergus is back?

[SirBurger]

Would endorse that smudge - give Matt Williams a chance in Europe and see how he goes. Apparently join fastest player in the squad with Topsy.

[Ozzy3213]

Matt Williams is a talented young lad, whether he is currently big or physical enough to start in the Premiership is another question.

Fowlie I had high hopes for but he just hasn't kicked on for whatever reason. Does anyone know how he's gone in the A League games so far, as I would be tempted to throw him in for the Challenge Cup and Anglo Welsh fixtures in the next 6 weeks or so and see if he can nail down that 13 jersey for the Premiership games.

[Ozzy3213]

London Irish: 15 Tommy Bell, 14 Alex Lewington, 13 Aseli Tikoirotuma, 12 Johnny Williams, 11 Napolioni Nalaga, 10 James Marshall, 9 Scott Steele, 1 Ben Franks, 2 David Paice (c), 3 Petrus Du Plessis, 4 Franco van der Merwe, 5 Sebastian De Chaves, 6 Josh McNally, 7 Blair Cowan, 8 Ofisa Treviranus

Replacements: 16 Saia Fainga’a, 17 Harry Elrington, 18 Ollie Hoskins, 19 Teofilo Paulo, 20 Conor Gilsenan, 21 Ben Meehan, 22 Greig Tonks, 23 Tom Fowlie

Given the injuries we have this is probably the strongest side we could put out tonight. I'm pleased to see Fowlie in the 23. This season is 100% make or break for him as he has spectacularly failed to kick on since breaking into the first team squad 3 seasons ago. I do think he is a talented lad though and am crossing everything that he can do it.

Great to see Fainga'a and Meehan in the squad for their Premiership debuts. Hopefully when they come on we are still in the game as they are a couple of guys who I think can add real impact for us, and in key positions.

[SirBurger]

Yes, a very strong team from us. Excited to see what Meehan can do in particular.

[Ecksile]

Fergus Mulchrone still "a few weeks away" unfortunately

[stnick88]

Coman 5/6 weeks as well which is a shame

Our best 2 defensive players

[SirBurger]

Yes, bad, but could be worse. To be honest I worried that Coman would be out for the season. At least Europe and LV will take up a chunk of those weeks.

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