Jeff Round 2

First topic message reminder :

I'm not sure if anyone is going to do this weeks fixtures so here's a short version to get discussion going. I've watched a few games on the weekend but to be honest most of the write up's just speculation and opinion.

Friday 8th September 2017
Sale Sharks 19:45 Newcastle
Sale lost their opening game of the weekend and many have thought they may struggle this season. Apparently their pack is too weak to compete, no matter how well drilled Diamond will have them, their backline has the potential to cause damage if they can get some good ball. Falcons won their opening game against Wuss, it's difficult to base too much on that performance though as Wuss could be terrible. Falcons have shown a harder edge recently though and in Richards they have a good coach. Home advantage to win out over two pretty equal teams imo. Sale by 5


Saturday 9th September 2017
Bath 14:00 Saracens
Bath looked powerful on the weekend and their pack should be able to compete with Sarries far better then Saints did. Their backs too worked well at times. Saracens looked unstoppable for most of the game, but how much of that was due to their opponents being crap? Either way I expect Saracens to be too good for Bath. Saracens by 3

Exeter 15:00 London Irish
Exeter had a surprise loss on Friday, they'll be pissed that Glos managed such a late win and will look to make amends at home now, expect a big, nasty performance with lots of mauls and cross kicks. Irish had a good win on Sat and should be well up for this game, travelling away to the champs may be a bridge too far though and a bp loss would be great for them. Can't see it though, Exeter by 15

Harlequins 15:00 Gloucester
Harlequins need to sort their Poopie out. Gloucester surprised everyone including themselves by beating Exeter. The two most topsy turvy teams could at least provide an entertaining, if low skill game which either could find a way to lose. Quins to manage to win it by 2

Northampton 16:30 Leicester
Saints were hammered by Saracens and will be hurting, I see this going two ways; either they use that humiliation to come out fighting against Tigers, or they've given up and Tigers will roll over them. Leicester could have won against Bath but didn't, on paper both teams are strong but Tigers seem to actually be coached. Tigers by 10


Sunday 10th September 2017
Worcester 15:00 Wasps
Wuss are already tipped for the drop. Wasps are looking strong. Wasps by 20 unless the weather and a gnarly Worcester side slow them down.

How come went the clock stopped there was still 45 seconds on the sin bin but then he was let back on before the kick was taken?

Shame to see Watson go off, he's been brilliant today

Ah great stuff from Roko....

Ah man we're gonna get a humping in Phili....

Nicely taken by Roko

Great by Roko. But it was clear that banahan knocked it on prior

Well that was outstanding! Awesome defensive performance against that bench from sarries. What a great sign off for Matson. So glad that Roko isn't international class.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ah man we're gonna get a humping in Phili....

On the other hand you could end up as league leaders this week ...

Ah dear Gloucesters Jeremy Thrush has just done a Ronaldo esque tumble worthy of an Oscar...because big Roberts fell into him....

Meanwhile Chiefs are taking last week's loss out on LI

Heaf2 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ah man we're gonna get a humping in Phili....

On the other hand you could end up as league leaders this week ...

Very true...

I fear that Genge may try to harm a saints player.....

If conditions at the Stoop are anything like they are where I live it can't be much fun there at the moment

Tigers really need to sort their line-out ...

Meanwhile LI back to earth well beaten by Chiefs - never expected much from the game but was hoping for a smaller score deficit ...

Wow Saints are pumped for this one!

I wouldn't take too much from that result Heaf, Exeter are some outfit at home.

Normal service is resumed...

Glaws were dreadful. We conceded over 20 turnovers and missed as many tackles. Ackermann will now know how big his job is going to be.

Hope you're right Sgt - away next week to Sale who will be smarting after letting your boys get away with the win last night ...

I think next week will be a good indication of where you are currently. Sale are not firing but should be up for the game.

We always get humped at Exeter, I always hate that game.

Fingers crossed ...

Sarries will be pumped to get over their defeat today. We are going to have to raise our game massively!

Meanwhile Saints looking much improved from last week ... JPD however still rubbish

GeordieFalcon wrote:Sarries will be pumped to get over their defeat today. We are going to have to raise our game massively!

It's going to be tough but it's an ideal time to play them. Neutral ground, still early in the season etc etc. I'd be very happy with a LBP and some game time for the new boys.

A amazed that the Tigers did not see a yellow card towards the end of the first half there.

Saints fired up and cruising at half time.

In fairness, that yellow card had been coming. Doyle had been very lenient.

Lawes is having some game though.

Ryan looked out there and still looked groggy packing into the scrum... Where is the HIA?

eirebilly wrote:Ryan looked out there and still looked groggy packing into the scrum... Where is the HIA?

The only argument I can imagine is that Ryan stayed down nursing a shoulder injury. Head on the wrong side, looks out cold, he should be off for a HIA at least.

Healey was wrong with his thought process that Sam Harrison would come into the back row too. Greg Bateman is on the bench covering prop but has been a hooker for most his professional career. Harry Thacker is at hooker currently but is very adept on the flank.

Is Courtney Lawes playing the best rugby of his life ?

Saints backrow looked awesome, Lawes produced probably the best performance I have see from him in a six shirt, didn't look out of place at all.

I would be interested in other peoples opinions, but after last weeks performance and the little cameo today, have Saints unearthed another contender for England in the 7 shirt in Ludlam, only he and Collins looked up to the mark against Sarries and again what he did today looked top class.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is Courtney Lawes playing the best rugby of his life ?

Yes

Was really disappointed in tigers, it's like they spent all the off season practicing with the backs and forgot the forwards. No platform what so ever. Only forward who looked half decent was thacker.

It's going to be another long season...

Thought saints bounced back impressively, but it's hard to say if that was because of how Poopie tigers were. Lawes was immense, Waller seemed to spend his time trying to wind up Genge. Brooks I thought was poor.

nathan wrote:Was really disappointed in tigers, it's like they spent all the off season practicing with the backs and forgot the forwards. No platform what so ever. Only forward who looked half decent was thacker.

It's going to be another long season...

Agreed. Our tactics were absolute Poopie and Saints easily controlled the game. We ran no lines and just went side to side it was like the Mauger days all over again.

I did feel sorry for Kitch, he got a lot of stick for how the lineout went last weekend. It was a mess early doors and then improved when he just called to himself on every Thacker throw. Once he left the field it became a dogs dinner again.

Speaking of 7's how did kvesic get on today? Apparently he played well last week despite the defeat so be interesting to see if this move really pushes him on.

nathan wrote:Thought saints bounced back impressively, but it's hard to say if that was because of how Poopie tigers were. Lawes was immense, Waller seemed to spend his time trying to wind up Genge. Brooks I thought was poor.

I think it was the latter. Bar Lawes, who really is becoming the player everyone hoped he would I think (please let him stay injury free!), I didn't think Saints looked that special. It'll be a season of the same under Mallinder. Lots of average performances, beating a few teams narrowly they should batter, losing to teams they should beat with immediate bounce backs. They're not the sum of their parts and the parts seem to be being slowly dismantled.

Tigers looked rubbish but I presume they'll improve. Bit worrying if the all round Prem performances don't pick up a little.

I thought Saints played very well. The back row all impressed. Alex Waller had a characteristically strong match too.

From Tigers it was a performance that most generously could be described as error strewn and more brutally summed up as insipid.

Genge had some eye catching charges as ever but frustrated me as a whole. With the lack of go forward from other carriers he was always taking the ball on the back foot which must be frustrating for an excellent carrier. It felt like he was just intent on looking for the big impact (which he definitely got against Hartley) and spent a fair bit of time running sideways to do so. Waller got the better of the match-up IMO. Genge was probably still our second best forward after Thacker, on pretty even pegging with O'Connor and Cole. Says a lot really.

The lack of tactical awareness angered me most. Forwards taking the ball statically and without support was continuous. Telegraphed set-piece moves, most notably going off the top from the front of the line-out then trying to run crash ball up the middle. Kalamafoni and Toomua got minced off consecutive line-outs through this.

1.Genge 2.Thacker 3.Mulipola 4.Barrow 5.Williams 6.Croft 7.O'Connor 8.Kalamafoni

I'd be interested in seeing that start next weekend with Sam Harrison at 9 to just give them simple quick service coming round the corner. Something has to change in Tigers forward play and when things are falling apart going back to basics is more often than not the best bet.

Compared with the pre-season form guide, where reports on Leicester were generally upbeat, Tigers have been most disappointing for me so far.

Bath looked to have picked up a few injuries along the way, so might be tested. Mind you, in their back line, probably only Joseph and Watson will go away on international duty, so they'll still have the likes of Burns, Priestland, Cook, Fotuali'i, Clark, Banahan and Roko. Meanwhile, Leicester could lose Youngs, Ford, (Manu), and May

Tiger's recruitment in the back 5 of the pack looks to be hurting them yet again. It's still early days but they seem to lack the quality to compete with the better sides currently.

It's really odd as they have some fantastic backs, they just need a few top draw additions in the engine room and backrow and they'll be genuine challengers again.

I don't think the recruitment is the problem. I think the tactics are the problem. Letting Slater go wasn't great but we did need a finisher. What we need more is tactics that don't involve us going side to side and having forwards taking the ball standing still. There's no guile or intelligence. The scrum works and we had Saints on toast even with Thacker hooking. O'Connor needs a forwards coach.

Carlos, I wouldn't start Williams. He was lucky that yellow card wasn't reviewed. Initial contact is chest and then the shoulder bounces up. It was stupid and unnecessary and not the first time either. We also need Kitch to give us a semblance of a lineout. I agree on bringing Croft back in, probably at the expense of Ryan who hasn't impressed. 

Next time out;

Genge, Thacker, Cole, Barrow, Kitchener, Croft, O'Connor, Hamilton, Youngs, Ford. May, Toomua, Smith, Holmes, TV.

We needed a PI option in the backs to offer some carrying power if/when Manu was unavailable and we didn't get it. I'm still not happy with the DOR choice either but that's a different topic.

Do you not think you could have got better players in over the last few years?

4-8 has seen a dip in overall quality over the last 3 years or so imo. Other top teams are recruiting top class players whilst Tigers are bringing in Kalamafoni, BOC etc.

Stick 2 top backrowers and a lock in your first XV and you'd be one of the best teams in Europe again. This should have been phased in over the last 2 years, I don't know how the management have not seen this coming.

Very encouraged by the Bath performance yesterday.
Obano really put his hand up at LH and keeps Auterac out of the first fifteen, although made his usual impact at set piece. Both hookers played their part and were aggressive in the loose.
We have our four THs injured, so Perinise and Andrews who have both arrived in the last couple of weeks did very well given the power of Barrington and Mako.
Stooke is in the form of his life and Charteris put himself about and secured our lineout. The back row again worked well as a combination.  Garvey is just so important to this side for his unseen work rate. Louw had no right to score that try but made it look easy.
Cook was unlucky but Fotuali did his usual swift service and roaming as a third flanker. Priestland was very classy first half when Bath were winning the collisions. Clark & Joseph shut the midfield down and the back three were working well. Roko's first try was out of nothing - the Saracens were shell shocked at the end.
All very encouraging.
Franklin Gardens next up...

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Do you not think you could have got better players in over the last few years?

4-8 has seen a dip in overall quality over the last 3 years or so imo. Other top teams are recruiting top class players whilst Tigers are bringing in Kalamafoni, BOC etc.

Stick 2 top backrowers and a lock in your first XV and you'd be one of the best teams in Europe again. This should have been phased in over the last 2 years, I don't know how the management have not seen this coming.

Before Slater went in the summer I thought we were excellently stocked at lock,young Wells is coming through nicely after all. Backrow is a mess I agree with that. No consistency of recruitment has meant that the balance is a little off. There is considerably more talent than currently being shown though, Kalamafoni is a decent option but personally I'd still go for Luke Hamilton at 8.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Do you not think you could have got better players in over the last few years?

4-8 has seen a dip in overall quality over the last 3 years or so imo. Other top teams are recruiting top class players whilst Tigers are bringing in Kalamafoni, BOC etc.

Stick 2 top backrowers and a lock in your first XV and you'd be one of the best teams in Europe again. This should have been phased in over the last 2 years, I don't know how the management have not seen this coming.

I don't Think O'Connor isn't a bad player he got the most turnovers in the prem last season.

BUT and it's a big BUT you can only really have a fetcher/Link play at 7 if you have locks and 6/8 that are hitting everything on and off the ball.

Prob going to have a longer post/rant on the tigers thread in a min.

Haha....good move Welly!

I like your lock options, but again, they're not top class. You can maybe get away with good AP players at lock if your backrow is top notch, it's not currently for me.

I agree with Welly, you're 2 backrowers away from being a top unit.

I mean some Tigers fans are saying why did we get rid of Slater to get May.

For me our locks needed improving even when Slater was here. Patrling was never replace in terms of quality really.

At least May brings something we have lacked since Varndell an out and out speedster.

And May's try showed what he will bring the tigers.

He gets knocked so much but I genuinely think hes a cracking winger.

It's very difficult to defend against pace. May offers that in spades and has a nice tendency to score tries he has no right to. We need a bit of that, we just need him to provide him a platform and he'll score for fun.

Ah Wuss disallowed a try for obstruction.