European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Right, seeing as it seems nobody else has put up any match threads yet, perhaps we can use this as a general thread for the build up to this year's European club competition.

The first round of Champions Cup matches looks like this:

13/10/2017 19:45 P1
Ulster Rugby  v   Wasps
Kingspan Stadium
BT Sport / beIN Sports More

14/10/2017 13:00 P3
Leinster Rugby  v   Montpellier
RDS Arena
Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

14/10/2017 16:15 P4
Racing 92  v   Leicester Tigers
Stade Yves-Du-Manoir
beIN Sports / BT Sport More

14/10/2017 17:30 P1
Harlequins  v   La Rochelle
The Twickenham Stoop
Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

14/10/2017 17:30 P5
Bath Rugby  v   Benetton Rugby
The Recreation Ground
Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

14/10/2017 19:45 P3
Exeter Chiefs  v   Glasgow Warriors
Sandy Park
BT Sport / beIN Sports More

15/10/2017 14:00 P4
Castres Olympique  v   Munster Rugby
Stade Pierre Fabre
beIN Sports / Sky Sports More

15/10/2017 16:15 P5
RC Toulon  v   Scarlets
Stade Félix Mayol
FR2 / Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

15/10/2017 17:30 P2
Northampton Saints  v   Saracens
Franklin's Gardens
BT Sport / beIN Sports More

15/10/2017 17:30 P2
Ospreys  v   ASM Clermont Auvergne
Liberty Stadium
BT Sport / beIN Sports

We all have our own vested interests but for me the picks of the round are:

- Chiefs v Glasgow: 2nd in the Jeff vs 1st in Pro 12 conference A - both teams playing very well - should be a stormer.

- Toulon v Scarlets: top of Pro 12 conference B, Scarlets are flying and are coming up against an imperfect side that has already lost 3 times this season. Great chance for an away win.

- Saints v Sarries: 1st v 3rd, an English classic, should be absolutely brutal.

Just seen the turnaround wasps have got for this first game and Scarlets will suffer for the next. Seems to be down to tv demands primarily which is harsh and going against the player safety push were seeing in general.

I am also looking forward to

Leinster - Montpellier
Exeter - Glasgow
and of course Ulster - Wasps

Overall some very tasty matches
A little tip whilst I cannot see anything other than a Bath win Treviso are a better side than last year and wont roll over.
I expect them to take at least one scalp in Italy

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just seen the turnaround wasps have got for this first game and Scarlets will suffer for the next. Seems to be down to tv demands primarily which is harsh and going against the player safety push were seeing in general.

Rightly, or wrongly, player safety is seen as a minimum of 5 days which these turn around meet.

Some excellent potential match ups in Saints vs Saracens. Inevitably I think it will be the pack battles which will decide the outcome.

Hartley vs George

Lawes vs Kruis

Harrison vs Clark

Saints certainly shouldn't be lacking in motivation but need their big players to be firing on all cylinders.

Form wise - both won't be too unhappy with the first 6 games but this game is pretty big for both teams.

Expect this to be a close one.

Wasps, Sarries and Clermont to win on the road, otherwise nothing to see here.

beshocked wrote:Some excellent potential match ups in Saints vs Saracens. Inevitably I think it will be the pack battles which will decide the outcome.

Hartley vs George

Lawes vs Kruis

Harrison vs Clark

Saints certainly shouldn't be lacking in motivation but need their big players to be firing on all cylinders.

Form wise - both won't be too unhappy with the first 6 games but this game is pretty big for both teams.

Expect this to be a close one.

Whether it's close depends on whether Mallinder plays 10. Sarries are too good at the territory game for him to play there. I'd go as far as to say choosing him at 10 should be a sackable offense.

Racing vs. Leicester should be an interesting one. Tigers had a shaky start to the season, but have won four on the bounce since then and Racing have lost their last three. Away wins are an absolute premium in this competition and I think Leicester have a chance of nicking one there.

I see Exeter vs. Glasgow as being the pick of the round, not many away teams get anything from Sandy Park so Glasgow will have to play very well.

rodders wrote:Wasps, Sarries and Clermont to win on the road, otherwise nothing to see here.

I admire your certainty - I also think you are wrong.

Ulster are not the greatest but at home and against a Wasp side with a 5 day turn around and quite frankly a bit of a shambles I cant see it.

Also Leicester, Montpellier and Munster could win away given the form of the respective sides.

geoff999rugby wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just seen the turnaround wasps have got for this first game and Scarlets will suffer for the next. Seems to be down to tv demands primarily which is harsh and going against the player safety push were seeing in general.

Rightly, or wrongly, player safety is seen as a minimum of 5 days which these turn around meet.

Find it curious that Wasps are keeping it generic with the criticism aiming the shot at tv demands..... it's only one tv company involved in the scheduling of both games, BT Sport (beIN would pick up any friday night game). Are BT Sport not meant to be the best thing since sliced bread? Those great tv deals for Jeff and EPCR and all that cash.... mind you what's the turnaround time for the parker pen equivalent most cutover weeks?

Perhaps Wasps should sign some cover. They are spending like the money is hot yet they can't play 2 games in 5 days. Cry me a river.

If your comment was aimed at my original statement bandwagon it was bases on the statement from epcr not wasps, though mark mccall was pretty unhappy with the turnaround wasps and Scarlets have.

No 7&1/2 wrote:If your comment was aimed at my original statement bandwagon it was bases on the statement from epcr not wasps, though mark mccall was pretty unhappy with  the turnaround wasps and Scarlets have.

Why did Mark McCall care?

Toulon may have lost a couple of away games but they are playing a much more expansive style than last season. If their scrum can stay competitive then I think they will be a handful, even on the road.

Clermont are still stuttering a bit after last season's heroics but are gradually getting back to form. I suspect Frank Azema will be targeting European success this season. They put out a less than full strength side last week away at Toulouse and were competitive, although they missed out on losing bonus point. With Fofana, Nagataitchi and Chouly to come back later in the season I think they will be there or thereabouts again this year.

Racing are struggling though. With Carter injured/ rested they started Machenaud at 10 and looked a bit rudderless. With the move to their indoor 400M Euro stadium imminent they are trying to all play like Nakawara, (ie. minimum of 5 offloads per player) but with limited success so far!

Scottrf wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:If your comment was aimed at my original statement bandwagon it was bases on the statement from epcr not wasps, though mark mccall was pretty unhappy with  the turnaround wasps and Scarlets have.

Why did Mark McCall care?

Because Mark Mccall has sympathy for his fellow DORs who have to put up with a tough schedule.

beshocked wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:If your comment was aimed at my original statement bandwagon it was bases on the statement from epcr not wasps, though mark mccall was pretty unhappy with  the turnaround wasps and Scarlets have.

Why did Mark McCall care?

Because Mark Mccall has sympathy for his fellow DORs who have to put up with a tough schedule.

What a nice guy.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just seen the turnaround wasps have got for this first game and Scarlets will suffer for the next. Seems to be down to tv demands primarily which is harsh and going against the player safety push were seeing in general.

Rightly, or wrongly, player safety is seen as a minimum of 5 days which these turn around meet.

Find it curious that Wasps are keeping it generic with the criticism aiming the shot at tv demands..... it's only one tv company involved in the scheduling of both games, BT Sport (beIN would pick up any friday night game). Are BT Sport not meant to be the best thing since sliced bread? Those great tv deals for Jeff and EPCR and all that cash.... mind you what's the turnaround time for the parker pen equivalent most cutover weeks?

Things don't have to be all good or all bad. In fact usually they are neither

Scottrf wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:If your comment was aimed at my original statement bandwagon it was bases on the statement from epcr not wasps, though mark mccall was pretty unhappy with  the turnaround wasps and Scarlets have.

Why did Mark McCall care?

Because Mark Mccall has sympathy for his fellow DORs who have to put up with a tough schedule.

What a nice guy.

Actually having met him he really is a very likeable and decent fella

geoff999rugby wrote:Actually having met him he really is a very likeable and decent fella

I think the same about Hartley but nobody would believe me

I think mccall was probably just ask as saracens played wasps the game before. I suspect it's just his actual thoughts on it but it helps to get it down in black and white should similar happen to saracens in the future.

Bath Rugby v Benetton Rugby - Seeing as Benetton Rugby have had a real good start to the season, and are looking improved, it will be an interesting game.

Harlequins v La Rochelle
The Twickenham Stoop
Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

Any one know much about La Rochelle? I know next to nothing...

yappysnap wrote:Harlequins  v   La Rochelle
The Twickenham Stoop
Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

Any one know much about La Rochelle? I know next to nothing...

Will be tough, Yappy - ASR are 4th in the league at the moment - played 7, won 5.

George Carlin wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Harlequins  v   La Rochelle
The Twickenham Stoop
Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

Any one know much about La Rochelle? I know next to nothing...

Will be tough, Yappy - ASR are 4th in the league at the moment - played 7, won 5.

But they are French and away. And we like playing the French

They have clads across the board but then their fly half options are Brock James and Ryan Lamb, or a Cadbury Flake double pack

Cool well that's good, never rated James or Lamb. The former has to have an amazing agent to have played for the teams he has.

Hopefully if they're 4th in the T14 they'll have one eye on that, just a case of us rustling up a functioning backrow now...

Talking about the scheduling, it looks as though Scarlets are not happy, and their calls for a re-schedule have fallen on deaf ears, this is crazy, south of France, then back for a game 5 days later does not give you much rest and recuperation or any preparation time. It's just crazy:-

Scarlets' call for Euro bosses to change unfair fixture schedule falls on deaf ears: 'It's not a level playing field'

PRO14 champions will have to mix and match their side in the opening two rounds of the Champions Cup.

Head coach Wayne Pivac has revealed the Scarlets asked European bosses to revise the schedule which sees them having to play two huge Champions Cup fixtures in five days.

The West Walians travel to the south of France to take on three-times winners Toulon on Sunday afternoon, then host Bath at Parc y Scarlets the following Friday night.

Pivac has already admitted he won’t be able to play his strongest side in both matches because of the short turnaround, while any player who picks up a knock to the head against the French side won’t have enough time to go through the standard procedure to be passed fit for the round two match in Llanelli.

“We certainly asked the question, we asked about the HIAs (Head Injury Assessments) because the process is that if anyone had a bump they are out for the next game regardless,” said Pivac.

“We felt that us having a five-day turnaround and Bath six, that wasn’t a level playing field.

“We asked the question could it be revised, but it stayed the same.

“We have got to look at our depth in the squad and how to use it wisely over the next couple of weeks.”

Speaking on BBC Scrum V on Sunday, former Wales fly-half Jonathan Davies branded the schedule ridiculous.

He said: "Whoever has done that schedule is ridiculous. There are so many teams that can play on television or whatever. To play in that short space of time against two quality sides is very difficult.

"But if they can cope with the physicality of Toulon I think they have a great chance of winning over there."

Wasps are another side who are having to put up with a similar schedule.

Dai Young’s injury-hit team take on Ulster in Belfast on Friday night, five days after a bruising Premiership battle with Saracens.

“It’s not ideal by any stretch of the imagination,” said Young. “There is very little we can do about it. We've known for a number of weeks what was the case, and we’ve just got to get on with it.”

A tournament spokesman has since responded, telling the BBC: “EPCR’s fixture schedule is drafted in consultation with, and is given approval by, Premiership Rugby, the Pro14 and the LNR (French league).

“Champions Cup and Challenge Cup matches are scheduled on the basis that clubs are available to play on the fifth day following a previous fixture.

“This is a situation that EPCR looks to avoid but when venue availability, domestic calendars and broadcast schedules for the entire season are taken into account, it is not always possible.”

For the clash at the Stade Mayol, the Scarlets will again be without Wales prop Rob Evans and back-rower John Barclay who are still undergoing HIA protocols.

Full-back Leigh Halfpenny is set to feature against his former side after missing the Guinness PRO14 derby win over the Ospreys with a slight hamstring niggle.

“Talking to Leigh last week, if it had been a final or play-off game he would have risked it and gone out there,” added Pivac.

“Leigh will do some running this afternoon and if he comes through that, he will train fully tomorrow.

“He was disappointed about not playing against the Ospreys, it is a big derby and obviously he would like to go out there this weekend and play against his former side and help us do well.”

The Scarlets have lost their last nine away matches in the Champions Cup, including a 31-20 defeat to Toulon in the south of France last December.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/scarlets-call-euro-bosses-change-13742014

Scarlets should put the Reserve XV out against Toulon - they are good enough to win the other 5 games and qualify

Don't risk a home defeat against Bath

geoff999rugby wrote:Scarlets should put the Reserve XV out against Toulon - they are good enough to win the other 5 games and qualify

Don't risk a home defeat against Bath

And Toulon could pick their reserve XV and spank most teams

Not in my view - not the team they were now Johnny has left.

Too many living on former glories and no longer delivering.
4th in the Top14 last year and very lucky to make the final

If I were Bath or Scarlets I would be confident of being well capable of winning at home to them

Didn't Scarlets beat them at home last year? A decent team put out by Toulon then if I remember correctly. Playing in Toulon is a different matter though!

It will be a very intense match, there will be more than a few knocks and fatigue, and by the time they leave the south of France and get home, it will not leave much time to get ready for a Friday night game.

I would presume that they will not be flying back on the same day/night of the game, so that means, getting home on Monday, resting up on Tuesday, back into training on Wednesday, and then preparing on Thursday ready for Friday. Seems a little hectic.

LD standard practise is to fly home on the day of the match

As I say save your players and nail Bath on Friday - will expose the 5 day turn around as well

Might as well lose 60-0 as 26 - 12

Aren't points difference and tried scored used to work out ties in pool points? If so getting spanked may not help

They are but if Scarlets win the other 5 they will qualify

Bottomline is lose a brutal encounter in Toulon could make them ripe for a home defeat against Bath.
If that happens it is game over, and is actually what I fear will happen.

Sometimes you have to play smart.
If they beat Bath and the 2 games against Treviso they will go into January in a good position and with every chance.
By then then, 1 of Toulon and Bath, will have 2 defeats, and it will totally in Scarlets own hands.
If Toulon beat Bath twice even better, Bath will be out and nothing to play for and Toulon will, probably, have 5 wins and may well not turn up in Wales

Griff wrote:Didn't Scarlets beat them at home last year?  A decent team put out by Toulon then if I remember correctly.  Playing in Toulon is a different matter though!

It was the game that kick started the real improvement in the teams believe IMO.

I can understand the idea of taking a second string team to Toulon, and losing out there, with the aim of beating Bath at home. The other way of looking at it is we want to prove we are up there with the best in Europe now. Would a Leinster, Scaracens type team take their reserves out to France, to preserve the first teamers for the following match? Not likely, they would go out full force and try to get the win. Then they would, if required rely upon depth and the playing at home factor to help them battle to a win in the next fixutre.

Also, its probably better for us to crash out of the RCC in the first set of fixtures than to be hanging on in hopes and lose out on points difference in the last weekend.

The thing is Leinster and Saracens have a depth Scarlets do not

Toulon did rest a few key players against UBB last weekend so expect them to take this game and the competition seriously. Have yet to see big changes in the way they play as they still rely on their big backs to make yards.
Not sure about the other French teams chances in the opening weekend. Montpelier have some firepower but Nadolo defense is quite dodgy and they usually leak tries on that part of the field. Clermont is improving but failed to collect a single point in all their 4 away games so far so it could be the best time for the Ospreys to face them. The rest don't stand much of achancex

Ospreys are very poor.
Even a Clermont side half as good as last year should win.
Ospreys are probably the weakest side in the competition - and that is including Treviso

Leinster are not the best defensively in midfield and are playing a 10 at 15 due to injuries

I think nearly all the teams have pretty bad injury lists this season, I know all the AP sides are pretty ravaged.

I'd say only Sarries may make it out of their pool from the AP, as the league is going to be close this season.

yappysnap wrote:I think nearly all the teams have pretty bad injury lists this season, I know all the AP sides are pretty ravaged.

I'd say only Sarries may make it out of their pool from the AP, as the league is going to be close this season.

Really, I'd have said Top14 to have 3, Jeff to have 3 and Pro14 to have 2 in the knockout stages. With a possibility for 4-3-1 (french-english-pro14).

Pro14 don't have the finances to compete.

Toulon lost 3 games last season and still qualified for the quarter finals so winning in the 1st round though ideal isn't the end of the world. Only 16 points.

Win 4 games and you'll likely qualify for the quarter finals. Admittedly didn't help Connacht but then again if you come 3rd in your group obviously you don't qualify!

yappysnap wrote:I think nearly all the teams have pretty bad injury lists this season, I know all the AP sides are pretty ravaged.

I'd say only Sarries may make it out of their pool from the AP, as the league is going to be close this season.

No Way !!

French teams are often poor away from home and many Pro14 teams cant compete

Only 3 teams with no hope and none of them in the Aviva

Castres, Treviso and Ospreys

I see Ulster have more 1st XV players unavailable than Wasps for tomorrows match

This is a 50/50 game now

Bookies have it Ulster by 4.

So much for the turnaround problem.
Of the starting XV's 8 of the 11 players who didn't start last week are playing for Wasps.
Now some were injured but quite a few were rested, not the case with Ulster.
Of the 3 changes, two are injured and the other has been dropped.
I always though it was the irish who rested players to concentrate on the European competition.

Little bit of fun - who do you want to win the matches

For me the 3 Irish sides.
Scarlets, Glasgow, Treviso, Saints, Clermont, Leicester, Quins

I want the Ladyboys to beat Montpellier. Then next week Execeterr to thump Montpellier. That way, if Glasgow have beaten both Chiefs and the Ladyboys,ontpellier may be in a position to continue that fine old French tradition of not turning up because there's no point.

That's what I want from the first two weekends.

Racing:

15. Juan Imhoff; 14. Teddy Thomas, 13. Virimi Vakatawa, 12. Henry Chavancy, 11. Joe Rokocoko; 10. Remi Tales, 9. Teddy Iribaren; 1. Viliamu Afatia, 2. Dimitri Szarzewski, 3. Census Johnston, 4. Bernard Le Roux, 5. Leone Nakarawa, 6. Wenceslas Lauret, 7. Baptiste Chouzenoux, 8. Yannick Nyanga

16. Camille Chat, 17. Eddy Ben Arous, 18. Cedate Gomes Sa, 19. Manuel Carizza, 20. Edwin Maka, 21. Maxime Machenaud, 22. Patrick LAMBIE, 23. Anthony Tuitavke


Leicester:

15. Telusa Veainu; 14. Nick Malouf, 13. Matt Smith, 12. Matt To'omua, 11. Jonny May; 10. George Ford, 9. Ben Youngs; 1. Ellis Genge, 2. Tom Youngs, 3. Dan Cole, 4. Dom Barrow, 5. Graham Kitchener, 6. Mike Williams, 7. Luke Hamilton, 8. Sione Kalafamoni

16. George McGuigan, 17. Greg Bateman, 18. Pat Cilliers, 19. Dan Tuohy, 20. Brendon O'Connor, 21. Benjamin White, 22. Joe Ford, 23. Matthew Tait

Northampton Saints

15. Ahsee Tuala; 14. George North, 13. Luther Burrell, 12. Piers Francis, 11. Ben Foden; 10. Steve Myler, 9. Cobus Reinach; 1. Alex Waller, 2. Dylan Hartley, 3. Kieran Brookes, 4. Michael Paterson, 5. David Ribbans, 6. Courtney Lawes, 7. Jamie Gibson, 8. Teimana Harrison

16. Mikey Haywood, 17. Francois van Wyk, 18. Jamal Ford-Robinson, 19. Api Ratuniyarawa, 20. Tom Wood, 21. Nic Groom, 22. Harry Mallinder, 23. Tom Collins


Saracens
15. Alex Goode; 14. Liam Williams, 13. Marcelo Bosch, 12. Brad Barritt, 11. Chris Wyles; 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Richard Wigglesworth; 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Jamie George, 3. Vincent Koch, 4. Nick Isiekwe, 5. George Kruis, 6. Maro Itoje, 7. Calum Clark, 8. Jackson Wray

16. Schalk Brits, 17. Richard Barrington, 18. Juan Figallo, 19. Dom Day, 20. Schalk Burger, 21. Ben Spencer, 22. Alex Lozowski, 23. Duncan Taylor