WRU want to bring players back to Wales - Cardiff Blues show interest in Josh Adams

I was reading this story in the Mail on Sunday yesterday, and I thought it would cause a good debate on here, it seems that the WRU want to bring Welsh players back to Wales, and they want to start by bankrolling a deal to bring George North back at the end of the season.

Is this a start where we see more and more players being put into Dragons ?

It was also said that the WRU want to bankroll keeping the more experienced players in Wales as well, with AWJ being mentioned as a lynch pin and an ideal example of how this is done going forward. I for one hope that none of this is pie in the sky, I hope they really do target Welsh players playing abroad and get them back at the regions.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-5027991/WRU-chiefs-set-bankroll-George-North-s-return-Wales.html

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wru-ready-bankroll-bid-bring-13826967

Also, for those of you who do not like going onto sites:-

• WRU chiefs are ready to bankroll deal to bring George North back to Wales at the end of the season
  

• George North is out of contract with Northampton and is yet to sign a new deal
  

• North one of top earners at top level but top brass say they can now afford him
  

• Chairman Gareth Davies believes the regions can now bankroll North's services
  

• Davies also pushing proposals to reduce the size of the WRU board from 20 to 10
  

The Lions winger is out of contract with Northampton, who he joined from the Scarlets in 2013, and is yet to sign a new deal.
North is one of the top earners in the Premiership but chairman Gareth Davies believes the regions can now afford his services.
The new 60-cap selection policy makes it easier for the WRU to retain young players – leaving more National Dual Contract funds for Test stars.


‘George North will always be a target,’ Davies told the Mail on Sunday. ‘Now we’re in a better position to get him back. We want little Jonny to be able to go and see his favourite player in Wales.
‘We’ve succeeded in bringing Jonathan Davies and Leigh Halfpenny back. Is it good for the wider game if all the best players are playing in England? I don’t think so but it’s their right to do so.
‘In the past, we’ve used NDC money to keep youngsters who were tempted to move abroad and try to play for Wales. Now we can use it to bring them back or retain more experienced guys.

‘Someone like Alun-Wyn Jones has got to be a prime target to keep in Wales. He is important for the game, his region and the national team. He’ll be a lynchpin in getting the Ospreys back on track.’
Davies is currently pushing proposals to reduce the size of the WRU board from 20 to 10 – with a separate council for the community game – to replace a system which is ‘140 years old’.
‘Look at what’s happening with the FA; Sports bodies are expected to behave in a certain way,’ he said. ‘We’re a £75million business and we should have a modern-day, streamlined structure.
‘You go to district meetings and they’ve been talking about the same things for 20 years. At some meetings now the community game is hardly discussed. It’s like we’ve got 14 forwards and one back.’

Hopefully someone takes North and we buy a marquee prop.

Alun Wyn Jones is a target to keep in Wales?? He was 32 last month.

AWJ is a prime target to go to a club of his choice and retire from international rugby. We have seen this happen lots of times, where they go off for one last pay day.

The WRU want to keep him in Wales, his experience will be invaluable, he will nurture a lot of players, this can only be a good thing.

When you only have a small amount of pro teams it is essential that older players move on so opportunities arise for younger players, also the cost of keeping the stars in Wales means too much is spent on them so there is not enough money for a decent squad. also players often improve by moving teams

Its more obvious in Scotland but applies to Wales as well

Take Laidlaw. If he had not gone south there would not have been space for Pyrgos, price, etc to flourish. He also improved as a player himself.

Good for Wales if they can afford it, can only benefit the European competitions to have strong sides from every country

Will also benefit the national side if the players are better rested

I see no issue with it at all - if the English/French clubs want the players they just have to stump up more cash than the WRU is willing to

LordDowlais wrote:AWJ is a prime target to go to a club of his choice and retire from international rugby. We have seen this happen lots of times, where they go off for one last pay day.

The WRU want to keep him in Wales, his experience will be invaluable, he will nurture a lot of players, this can only be a good thing.

I’m sure you’re right. Same with Paul O’Connell in Ireland. But if you only have a certain amount of money to retain players...

TJ wrote:When you only have a small amount of pro teams it is essential that older players move on so opportunities arise for younger players, also the cost of keeping the stars in Wales means too much is spent on them so there is not enough money for a decent squad.  also players often improve by moving teams

Its more obvious in Scotland but applies to Wales as well

Take Laidlaw.  If he had not gone south there would not have been space for Pyrgos, price, etc to flourish.  He also improved as a player himself.

I take it you're unfamiliar with Adam Beard, Rory Thornton (both Ospreys) and Seb Davies? With Webb and Biggar off Ospreys will need AWJ to stick around.

I think we have to be a bit more sensible when handling North. Not only is he one concussion away from retirement (and possibly worse thereafter) he's been in questionable form for club and country for around two seasons. He isn't worth over 300K which will likely be his going rate. Firstly let's get back Owen Williams, Faletau, Day and maybe Charteris, and also bring in Moriarty, Francis. If North returns home I'd have the WRU send him back to Scarlets where I believe his game will improve under that coaching team. In the near future maybe we can get back Liam Williams, Webb and Biggar.

Hopefully the WRU are still serious about giving Jackman some additional funding to play around with as I'd like to see some of the aforementioned come to us...

North might be the big name but I'd have thought Tomas Francis would have been a more logical target given the state if the Welsh clubs, finances and his position at the Chiefs (second choice tighthead).

formerly known as Sam wrote:North might be the big name but I'd have thought Tomas Francis would have been a more logical target given the state if the Welsh clubs, finances and his position at the Chiefs (second choice tighthead).

So he's second choice now? It would be good if he came to us as Jackman would be keen to develop his conditioning, he's still a big boy. I'm not sure he would be first choice though, Leon Brown seems to do everything pretty well.

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:North might be the big name but I'd have thought Tomas Francis would have been a more logical target given the state if the Welsh clubs, finances and his position at the Chiefs (second choice tighthead).

So he's second choice now? It would be good if he came to us as Jackman would be keen to develop his conditioning, he's still a big boy. I'm not sure he would be first choice though, Leon Brown seems to do everything pretty well.

Seems to have been overtaken by Harry Williams at Exeter, end of last season and hasn't forced his way back in front since. Not that he's playing badly it's just a very competitive squad and Williams is in the form of his life and will be in the England 23 come the AIs.

Francis might be more open to a move now then he was previously. He's still a quality tighthead and if the WRU want to help the Welsh regions he'd be the kind of acquisition which would give a pack a boost.

Harry Williams..... interesting surname. Where are his parents from?!  

Griff wrote:Harry Williams..... interesting surname. Where are his parents from?!  

He's a London boy who rose to prominence whilst at Loughborough Uni before earning his stripes in the Championship. He's already been capped by England so if there was some Welsh parentage then the WRU missed out.

Many people who use these boards regularly will know that I am a simpleton. However, I will risk asking the relevant questions this once:

Why would you want to bring your best established and most expensive players back to Wales? How will you ever bring new players through if they don't get a chance with the professional franchises? The whole point about players being poached to other clubs is that they allow more WQ players the chance to play regularly at the top club flight. Is it really the case that having them back would bring more crowds in? That's a standard argument but I just don't buy it.

Help me, someone?

George Carlin wrote:Many people who use these boards regularly will know that I am a simpleton. However, I will risk asking the relevant questions this once:

Why would you want to bring your best established and most expensive players back to Wales? How will you ever bring new players through if they don't get a chance with the professional franchises? The whole point about players being poached to other clubs is that they allow more WQ players the chance to play regularly at the top club flight. Is it really the case that having them back would bring more crowds in? That's a standard argument but I just don't buy it.

Help me, someone?

Makes it easier to have them available for training camps, manage their training and workload.

George Carlin wrote:Many people who use these boards regularly will know that I am a simpleton. However, I will risk asking the relevant questions this once:

Why would you want to bring your best established and most expensive players back to Wales? How will you ever bring new players through if they don't get a chance with the professional franchises? The whole point about players being poached to other clubs is that they allow more WQ players the chance to play regularly at the top club flight. Is it really the case that having them back would bring more crowds in? That's a standard argument but I just don't buy it.

Help me, someone?

Regions aren't there to just provide players though - they need to win tournaments and stay in top flight club rugby to keep attracting sponsors and winning tv rights etc.

They need to keep their homegrown star talent to do this - you won't win anything or attract/keep fans with just youngsters.

Who the youngsters learn from if top players leave ?

It's when the top players leave. Too many Welsh players leave in their prime. Leaving in their mid twenties (or earlier) isn't ideal for providing a pathway for younger players. You want the big names to continue in Wales until they hit their 30s and then leave for a payday with the next player in their early twenties stepping in to the void.

Those players leaving in their prime weakens the regions and if they aren't competitive then it's then more difficult to retain the best players coming through in a vicious cycle. Would Biggar and Webb be leaving if the Ospreys were fighting for trophies?

I will be interesting to see if North leaves Saints and where he goes. I doubt Saints will want to break the bank to keep him as he has not really been that fantastic during his time there. He has made some wonderful breaks and scored some great tries but he never seems to be involved enough.

Some players just don't seem to thrive when they move from Wales. I'm hoping North does a Jonathan Davies (2) and returns hope and regains the form that made him a target in the first place. JD2 went to Clermont, didn't do much out there and found himself on the bench a lot, returned home out of form but has really turned things around, even performing very well for the Lions when everyone (including myself) felt he shouldn't have been selected. The return to Wales did him wonders.

I posted somewhere a year or two ago about the sheer volume of welsh players that don't seem to make it when leaving Wales! At the time it seemed like Stephen Jones and Gareth Thomas were the only ones that seemed to actually do well and enhance their status/improve when leaving Wales. Can't think that anyone else can really be added to that list? Roberts didn't improve in France or England, IMO. Think that was the start of his decline. Halfpenny? Not really. Mike Phillips? No. Hibbard? No, I don't think so. Charteris? Faletau? Hook? Henson? Maybe that's why the WRU is so keen for them not to leave!

From Tigers POV Owen Williams and Luke Hamilton seemed to have made it really.

But that might be because they left at an earlier age.

Griff wrote:Some players just don't seem to thrive when they move from Wales.  I'm hoping North does a Jonathan Davies (2) and returns hope and regains the form that made him a target in the first place.  JD2 went to Clermont, didn't do much out there and found himself on the bench a lot, returned home out of form but has really turned things around, even performing very well for the Lions when everyone (including myself) felt he shouldn't have been selected.  The return to Wales did him wonders.  

I posted somewhere a year or two ago about the sheer volume of welsh players that don't seem to make it when leaving Wales!  At the time it seemed like Stephen Jones and Gareth Thomas were the only ones that seemed to actually do well and enhance their status/improve when leaving Wales.  Can't think that anyone else can really be added to that list?  Roberts didn't improve in France or England, IMO.  Think that was the start of his decline.  Halfpenny?  Not really.  Mike Phillips?  No.  Hibbard?  No, I don't think so.  Charteris?  Faletau?  Hook?  Henson?  Maybe that's why the WRU is so keen for them not to leave!

Agreed. I think that a lot of people forget that these are just young men and moving them away from their families and support groups is a readjustment that all players have to make. Couple that with a more forward focused game plan for most Top 14 teams and the fact that the millionaire local owners don't give a sh!t about managing your game time to protect your body is a very different and difficult cocktail to manage. Sexton got absolutely flogged in France and essentially said so when he came back. 

I don't think that there's any coincidence that a lot of the non-French players who seem do the best (Wilkinson, James, Carter) are very experienced and can say 'no' to things. 

Scotland is more of a mixed bag - lots of players have done quite well when they left Scotland. And on the flip side, there's what's called 'doing a Chris Paterson at Gloucester' which is really not recommended.

Griff wrote:JD2 went to Clermont, didn't do much out there and found himself on the bench a lot, returned home out of form but has really turned things around, even performing very well for the Lions when everyone (including myself) felt he shouldn't have been selected.  The return to Wales did him wonders.

It would have helped him if he had realised they speak French in France. I've heard his inability to learn it was a big issue.

mikey_dragon wrote:Hopefully the WRU are still serious about giving Jackman some additional funding to play around with as I'd like to see some of the aforementioned come to us...

They can't give Jackman any more than they give to Tandy, Pivac and Wilson.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Hopefully the WRU are still serious about giving Jackman some additional funding to play around with as I'd like to see some of the aforementioned come to us...

They can't give Jackman any more than they give to Tandy, Pivac and Wilson.

This is true. I think the way they're doing it though is by making sure the Dragons only spend/need to spend their player budget on players. So they've separated out Newport RFC from the Dragons (a potential source of funding (mis)use); funded the pitch and stadium costs (so hopefully no siphoning of player budget to make up any shortfall in this area, and hopefully less ongoing costs as the pitch might be a bit more robust); sent WRU staff to take on some roles at the Dragons (so hopefully if they're on the WRU payroll there will be no need to fund them out of the player budget); paid off debts so that there would be no servicing of loans required (possibly being done in part with player budget?). Not saying all these were definitely funded out of the player budget previously, but something was definitely amiss when we couldn't spend to the minimum amount that we receiving from the WRU. Where was it going?!

Griff wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Hopefully the WRU are still serious about giving Jackman some additional funding to play around with as I'd like to see some of the aforementioned come to us...

They can't give Jackman any more than they give to Tandy, Pivac and Wilson.

This is true.  I think the way they're doing it though is by making sure the Dragons only spend/need to spend their player budget on players.  So they've separated out Newport RFC from the Dragons (a potential source of funding (mis)use); funded the pitch and stadium costs (so hopefully no siphoning of player budget to make up any shortfall in this area, and hopefully less ongoing costs as the pitch might be a bit more robust); sent WRU staff to take on some roles at the Dragons (so hopefully if they're on the WRU payroll there will be no need to fund them out of the player budget); paid off debts so that there would be no servicing of loans required (possibly being done in part with player budget?).  Not saying all these were definitely funded out of the player budget previously, but something was definitely amiss when we couldn't spend to the minimum amount that we receiving from the WRU.  Where was it going?!

Offshore?

That's not what was said on Scrum V though. The WRU were willing to give BJ extra funding for additional players but he chose to work with what he had first. He's a good coach, and no doubt knows who the dead wood is by now.

Bevington, Rhodri and Jordan Williams all set to return from Bristol to Wales with the Dragons next season.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41872454

Rhodri Williams was confirmed today. Very happy with that. The other two, I am not overly fussed about. I am sure they will be confirmed fairly soon though, seeing as they are so strongly rumoured.

Bevington is a passable prop isn't he? I'm not sure I could name a Dragons prop and correct if I'm wrong but they haven't got any caps? Every team can always use a prop with international experience. I'd have thought bringing back the international level props playing outside of Wales would be the priority for the WRU. Build from the front as everything is easy if the set pieces work.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Bevington is a passable prop isn't he? I'm not sure I could name a Dragons prop and correct if I'm wrong but they haven't got any caps? Every team can always use a prop with international experience. I'd have thought bringing back the international level props playing outside of Wales would be the priority for the WRU. Build from the front as everything is easy if the set pieces work.

Did you get to see much of him when Bristol were in premiership? As that you should give you a good indication of his capabilities, or limitations depending on how you see it. I'm not sure how he kept buying his place in the Ospreys team but I remember him going to Leicester a few years back and receiving a fine tuning - his experience of that won't be much good to us.

Dragons have two front rowers in the Wales squad, both very promising players from the academy and I expect they'll pick up caps soon.

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Bevington is a passable prop isn't he? I'm not sure I could name a Dragons prop and correct if I'm wrong but they haven't got any caps? Every team can always use a prop with international experience. I'd have thought bringing back the international level props playing outside of Wales would be the priority for the WRU. Build from the front as everything is easy if the set pieces work.

Did you get to see much of him when Bristol were in premiership? As that you should give you a good indication of his capabilities, or limitations depending on how you see it. I'm not sure how he kept buying his place in the Ospreys team but I remember him going to Leicester a few years back and receiving a fine tuning - his experience of that won't be much good to us.

Dragons have two front rowers in the Wales squad, both very promising players from the academy and I expect they'll pick up caps soon.

I remember the game where he got dismantled at WR. The Ospreys pack got done over at the scrum big time but that was at a time when Tigers had some excellent propping stock (Castro in his prime with Cole in rotation). The Bristol website says he played 16 games last season but I can't really remember him, the Bristol scrum was unspectacular generally but I can't remember it going backwards at a rate of knots like some weaker packs can do.

He'll be a solid signing and if you've got some young talent then it's handy rotation to stop them getting burnt out.

The other two were pretty creative in the backs for Bristol last season.

mikey_dragon wrote:He's a good coach

Didn't he get fired from Grenoble after steering them to the bottom of the Top14 in his first season in charge?

gcBlues wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:He's a good coach

Didn't he get fired from Grenoble after steering them to the bottom of the Top14 in his first season in charge?

I smell a Danny Wilson is Jesus acolyte

Stone Motif wrote:

gcBlues wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:He's a good coach

Didn't he get fired from Grenoble after steering them to the bottom of the Top14 in his first season in charge?

I smell a Danny Wilson is Jesus acolyte

Nothing to do with Grenoble's player revolt at the tougher training schedule and removal of cream cakes from the cafeteria he brought in then...

Stone Motif wrote:

gcBlues wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:He's a good coach

Didn't he get fired from Grenoble after steering them to the bottom of the Top14 in his first season in charge?

I smell a Danny Wilson is Jesus acolyte

Not at all but I would consider him better than Jackman.

munkian wrote:Nothing to do with Grenoble's player revolt at the tougher training schedule and removal of cream cakes from the cafeteria he brought in then...

If the players 'revolted' at the tougher training schedule and a desert issue, then this confirms what I suspected, that he's not a good head coach. He was forwards coach there before becoming head coach, he would have known about the players at his disposal prior to him taking the job and the fact the players reacted the way they did show's he didn't have a clue with what he was dealing with.

He might be a good fit for the dragons, they got nowhere to go but up and he can beast all these young unknown players as they're after pro contracts. Not to mention he's all but conceded away games, which is ironically what they do in France. Maybe he learnt something from his time there.

gcBlues wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

gcBlues wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:He's a good coach

Didn't he get fired from Grenoble after steering them to the bottom of the Top14 in his first season in charge?

I smell a Danny Wilson is Jesus acolyte

Not at all but I would consider him better than Jackman.

munkian wrote:Nothing to do with Grenoble's player revolt at the tougher training schedule and removal of cream cakes from the cafeteria he brought in then...

If the players 'revolted' at the tougher training schedule and a desert issue, then this confirms what I suspected, that he's not a good head coach.  He was forwards coach there before becoming head coach, he would have known about the players at his disposal prior to him taking the job and the fact the players reacted the way they did show's he didn't have a clue with what he was dealing with.

He might be a good fit for the dragons, they got nowhere to go but up and he can beast all these young unknown players as they're after pro contracts.  Not to mention he's all but conceded away games, which is ironically what they do in France.  Maybe he learnt something from his time there.

Why is Danny Wilson a better coach?

What has Jackman done with a totally inherited squad that you think makes him a bad coach? Put them in an athletic programme?

He's been at 5 different clubs/setups in the last 7 years. Doesn't scream successful to me.

Stone Motif wrote:

gcBlues wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

gcBlues wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:He's a good coach

Didn't he get fired from Grenoble after steering them to the bottom of the Top14 in his first season in charge?

I smell a Danny Wilson is Jesus acolyte

Not at all but I would consider him better than Jackman.

munkian wrote:Nothing to do with Grenoble's player revolt at the tougher training schedule and removal of cream cakes from the cafeteria he brought in then...

If the players 'revolted' at the tougher training schedule and a desert issue, then this confirms what I suspected, that he's not a good head coach.  He was forwards coach there before becoming head coach, he would have known about the players at his disposal prior to him taking the job and the fact the players reacted the way they did show's he didn't have a clue with what he was dealing with.

He might be a good fit for the dragons, they got nowhere to go but up and he can beast all these young unknown players as they're after pro contracts.  Not to mention he's all but conceded away games, which is ironically what they do in France.  Maybe he learnt something from his time there.

Why is Danny Wilson a better coach?

What has Jackman done with a totally inherited squad that you think makes him a bad coach? Put them in an athletic programme?

Wilson is a pretty good coach. He might not be ready for the head coach option yet but I think had he received some help from those amateurs running the city slicking region then he might have gone somewhere - but as we all know you can only do so much with a team that has a majority of old/average players.

I like what Jackman is doing with the Dragons, the fans and players are buying into his vision. I think it's a sign of a good coach and a huge step up from previous individuals. When the French duck an away game they usually send their third team but we don't have that, we've only made around 10 changes for an away game at the most. That's how weak our squad has become and that's what BJ has found out the hard way.

BJ is set to cut the dead wood and bring in 12 new additions. Imagine if BJ went to Cardiff with a similar vision, you'd get players crying to the board so they end up firing him a la Hammett. You siding with the players over a dessert revolt seems akin to your amateur boards vision of running Cardiff Blues into the ground. It's also what got shot of good coaches like Hammett and gave you coaches like Phil Davies, Baber, Burnell, McIntosh, etc. So at least now we know that the fans, directors and coaches are on same level of stupidity - better get WRU partnership or we'll have your region shared between Ponty and Merthyr....

mikey_dragon wrote:better get WRU partnership or we'll have your region shared between Ponty and Merthyr....

And if the WRU take control of Cardiff Blues, then you could find them being merged with Dragons in a South East WRU run region.

'Blue Dragons' sounds a bit Japanese for me.

Might be tasty though.

LordDowlais wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:better get WRU partnership or we'll have your region shared between Ponty and Merthyr....

And if the WRU take control of Cardiff Blues, then you could find them being merged with Dragons in a South East WRU run region.

CF10 can only but dream.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Might be tasty though.

www.bluedragon.co.uk

Knew it was food related!

George North is another to be confirmed coming back then:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42087947

Where do you all reckon he will end up ?

scarlets

The WRU wanted him at Blues before he left for Northampton if my memory serves me right.

Weren't they going to offer him a contract to stay in Wales, as long has he played for Blues, or am I imagining this ?

Any of the four could do with an extra winger, but if he feels that Scarlets sold him out then it's unlikely to be them. Perhaps it's more likely to be an east Wales team. I think any of the four could also do with Francis on their books, but Cardiff more than everyone else.

mikey_dragon wrote:Any of the four could do with an extra winger, but if he feels that Scarlets sold him out then it's unlikely to be them. Perhaps it's more likely to be an east Wales team. I think any of the four could also do with Francis on their books, but Cardiff more than everyone else.

Hes not an 'extra winger' though is he ? At that price he'd be starting and then missing a third of the year for internationals.

I'd say Ospreys need him the most. Hes too young for the Blues anyway.

Good news for Wales I think re North as they can manage his workload.

I doubt Saints are too worried as he did not seem well suited to the AP. He gets up for big games but tends to be a lazy in ordinary league games. There are no equivalents of Zebre in the AP so teams cannot afford to take their foot of the gas in lower profile games.