The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

First topic message reminder :

3rd Test Perth, December 14-18, 2017

Australia:
Bancroft, Warner, Khawaja, Smith *, S Marsh, M Marsh, Paine †, Starc, Cummins, Lyon, Hazelwood

England:
Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root *, Malan, Bairstow †, Ali, Woakes, Overton, Broad, Anderson

guildfordbat wrote:Craig - you need to read up about Typhoon Tyson and have him leading your pace attack of yesteryear!

He was before even my time but cricket elders I know and respect still strongly vouch for him. Think Alfie once posted that his dad saw him, yeah?

As a matter of fact I do faintly recall seeing Tyson bowl...but it wasn't in a Test Match but a club game after his international days were done. No longer a Typhoon then - more of a very stiff breeze ; though you could still see the strength that had produced his once awesome pace.

The Old Man's memory goes back much further : youthful memories of Larwood ...

Thanks, Alfie. I was sure you had mentioned your dad having seen a true fast man but was getting confused as to which one - I wasn't giving nearly enough credit to the length of your dad's innings! Interestingly or not, both Larwood and Tyson settled in Australia having tormented their Test team there.

Btw, in line with Jimbo's post - if Curran plays and however he gets on, he won't hide.

Tom Curran - 2017 CC - 24 wickets @ 34.67 (BB 4-69)
Tom Curran - 2016 CC - 33 wickets @ 45.27 (BB 4-58)

That would be a concern. He has something about him undoubtedly, has bowled some clutch overs which is what you want to see from a young players - keeping his head in pressure situations - although this has been seen more regularly in the limited overs games rather than the CC.

Plus I think it is a bit harsh on Jake Ball! Is Tom Curran now a better bowler than him when he wasn't three weeks ago? Unless he is still injured, in which case it makes the call to pick him at the Gabba more bizarre!

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Lets face it neither is exactly a terrifying prospect for the opposition.

Well Ian Botham, Andrew Flintoff, Bob Willis and Fred Trueman were all unavailable.

But I'm just getting 1933 Harold Larwood into the Delorean...

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Lets face it neither is exactly a terrifying prospect for the opposition.

Well Ian Botham, Andrew Flintoff, Bob Willis and Fred Trueman were all unavailable.

But I'm just getting 1933 Harold Larwood into the Delorean...

Can you fit Jack Hobbs, Geoff Boycott and Raymond Illingworth in as well?

JDizzle wrote:Tom Curran - 2017 CC - 24 wickets @ 34.67 (BB 4-69)
Tom Curran - 2016 CC - 33 wickets @ 45.27 (BB 4-58)

That would be a concern. He has something about him undoubtedly, has bowled some clutch overs which is what you want to see from a young players - keeping his head in pressure situations - although this has been seen more regularly in the limited overs games rather than the CC.

Plus I think it is a bit harsh on Jake Ball! Is Tom Curran now a better bowler than him when he wasn't three weeks ago? Unless he is still injured, in which case it makes the call to pick him at the Gabba more bizarre!

Hi JD - on Curran, I like the guy and as you suggest he's got something about him but that doesn't mean he's ready for Test cricket. I understand your concern.

As for him becoming or not becoming a better bowler than Ball in the last three weeks, that takes us again to the unsatisfactory scheduling of Tests nowadays in which they are crammed in one after the other with next to no proper practice matches in between.

Perhaps they are going on the tour match just over a week ago V Cricket Australia.

First Innings

Ball took 0 for 33 in 12 overs
Curran took 2 for 28 in 9 overs

Second Innings

Ball took 0 for 30 in 5 overs
Curran took 3 for 28 in 7 overs

With the bat Ball didn't bat in either innings whilst Curran made 77 not out and did not bat in the second innings.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Perhaps they are going on the tour match just over a week ago V Cricket Australia.

First Innings

Ball took 0 for 33 in 12 overs
Curran took 2 for 28 in 9 overs

Second Innings

Ball took 0 for 30 in 5 overs
Curran took 3 for 28 in 7 overs

With the bat Ball didn't bat in either innings whilst Curran made 77 not out and did not bat in the second innings.

Hi Craig - I'm sure they are.

However creditable (and Curran's performance certainly was), performance in a solitary two day practice shouldn't be the basis for Test selection. That's unfair on the players and those selecting the Test side. Hence, my continuing grumbles about the squeezing in of Tests with no other matches in between.

The 70/71 Ashes series was so long and spread out that it allowed an extra Test to be added to the schedule when an earlier one was abandoned without a ball being bowled due to heavy rain. Including the abandoned Test, it rather incredibly became a 7 match Test series. That was to the disgust of your man and then captain Raymond Illingworth who was not consulted by the men in suits about the additional Test.

guildfordbat wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Perhaps they are going on the tour match just over a week ago V Cricket Australia.

First Innings

Ball took 0 for 33 in 12 overs
Curran took 2 for 28 in 9 overs

Second Innings

Ball took 0 for 30 in 5 overs
Curran took 3 for 28 in 7 overs

With the bat Ball didn't bat in either innings whilst Curran made 77 not out and did not bat in the second innings.

Hi Craig - I'm sure they are.

However creditable (and Curran's performance certainly was), performance in a solitary two day practice shouldn't be the basis for Test selection. That's unfair on the players and those selecting the Test side. Hence, my continuing grumbles about the squeezing in of Tests with no other matches in between.

The 70/71 Ashes series was so long and spread out that it allowed an extra Test to be added to the schedule when an earlier one was abandoned without a ball being bowled due to heavy rain. Including the abandoned Test, it rather incredibly became a 7 match Test series. That was to the disgust of your man and then captain Raymond Illingworth who was not consulted by the men in suits about the additional Test.

Oh definitely the scheduling needs looking at BUT sadly cricket now dances to the tune of ODI and Twenty20 and I'd guess that throttles the schedule a lot. That being the case the selectors can only go on the limited 'here and now' evidence they have to go on which is that match just over a week ago. Wood did not impress and neither did Ball but Curran did do well. Overton needs replacing (I would guess) so one place is up for grabs. Perhaps the selectors feel that Ball did not cut the mustard in the First Test and they want to look at another option and so Curran is the obvious candidate.

Third try at posting re Curran (blasted Internet keeps throwing me off!)

Not averse to seeing him play. Liked what I saw in the white ball stuff earlier this year and I reckon his batting skills make him a more suitable like for like replacement for Overton than Ball. (Not giving up on Ball ; but I fancy he needs a bit of time developing his game before he's thrown back in . I do think he was done no favours by being picked for Brisbane on next to no lead up game time )

Is Curran ready ? Won't know until we see , will we...which is true of all newcomers. Case in point Overton : clearly the selectors were doubtful which was why they preferred Ball over him despite his good form in the warm ups ; but he has basically looked the part straight away ( not getting carried away : but surely most would agree a good start)
I've a hunch Curran might do well ; we will (may) see. Same with Crane , I guess - he hasn't been ruled out. Though I think Curran the more likely selection at this point.

No Starc for Aus : The Bird is ready to fly instead ; and still some doubt over Paine.
Wonder if Broad and Moeen are 100% this time : they surely haven't been so far.

Weather looks decent . 29 on day one predicted ...hotter on the second...

Really should have posted the above on

The Ashes .Fourth Test .Melbourne...

But we haven't got a thread for it yet. Will see you all there later. Merry Christmas in the meantime...

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21852852/england-need-little-boy-joe-root-step-ricky-ponting

England need 'little boy' Root to step up - Ponting

That's not diffrent said in my comment on Root the Captain
He's not grown into a man yet

guildfordbat wrote:

JDizzle wrote:Tom Curran - 2017 CC - 24 wickets @ 34.67 (BB 4-69)
Tom Curran - 2016 CC - 33 wickets @ 45.27 (BB 4-58)

That would be a concern. He has something about him undoubtedly, has bowled some clutch overs which is what you want to see from a young players - keeping his head in pressure situations - although this has been seen more regularly in the limited overs games rather than the CC.

Plus I think it is a bit harsh on Jake Ball! Is Tom Curran now a better bowler than him when he wasn't three weeks ago? Unless he is still injured, in which case it makes the call to pick him at the Gabba more bizarre!

Hi JD - on Curran, I like the guy and as you suggest he's got something about him but that doesn't mean he's ready for Test cricket. I understand your concern.

As for him becoming or not becoming a better bowler than Ball in the last three weeks, that takes us again to the unsatisfactory scheduling of Tests nowadays in which they are crammed in one after the other with next to no proper practice matches in between.

I just don't see the one top tier quality that will make him a Test bowler. He doesn't seem to have that stand out attribute - but I do hope I am proven wrong.

I think Alfie hits the pertinent point above, Curran's batting makes him more of a like for like replacement for Overton than Ball/Wood. Which does come into it when England are fragile enough as it is!

And although I think it is pretty stupid of Jimmy A to be taking shots at the oppositions bowling depth when you are 3-0 (just keep it shut...), I feel he may right and there is a big drop off from Starc to Bird. It should give the England 'tail' i.e. Moeen and down!, some respite and allow that batting depth to help a bit more.

As for Root as skipper, I honestly don't believe he is any worse than Smith as skipper. The two main differences are A) Smith has been lashing it everywhere this series whilst Root has struggled and B) Smith has three 90mph+ bowlers bowling at near the top of their game he can throw it, as well as very reliable spinner.

Yes, Curran is the nearest like for like replacement for Overon but I suspect there's a danger of over egging his batting. Although he scored an undefeated 77 in the recent two day practice game, he averages below 18 in first class matches with a top score of 60. When batting number 8 for Surrey, that's generally looked one place too high.

Good luck to him if he plays and he's got the temperament that he could succeed. However, I'm not convinced he's properly ready.

guildfordbat wrote:Yes, Curran is the nearest like for like replacement for Overon but I suspect there's a danger of over egging his batting. Although he scored an undefeated 77 in the recent two day practice game, he averages below 18 in first class matches with a top score of 60. When batting number 8 for Surrey, that's generally looked one place too high.

Good luck to him if he plays and he's got the temperament that he could succeed. However, I'm not convinced he's properly ready.

Well Overton meeds replacing and Wood is not physically ready so options are extremely limited.

I must confess that Anderson remarking about Australia having no back-up bowlers is a truly bizarre thing to say. It makes even less sense to say it now when it is clear that England have not only been out-bowled and are 3-0 down but also England certainly have no back up bowlers themselves so not sure the point he was trying/hoping to make.