The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

by R!skysports Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

Bicker away......

A nice video to start with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds9dwHAfy_M

Glasgow Warriors are one of the two professional rugby union sides from Scotland. The team plays in the Pro14 league and in the European Professional Club Rugby tournaments. In the 2014-15 season they won the Pro12 title and became the first Scottish team to win a major trophy in rugby union's professional era. #theyrock

Edinburgh Rugby (formerly Edinburgh Reivers, Edinburgh Gunners and a real rugby team) is one of the two professional rugby teams from Scotland, although hard to determine if they play rugby. The club ~~competes~~ dances in the Pro14, along with Glasgow Warriors, its oldest rival. Since January 2017, Edinburgh plays most of its home games at Myreside Stadium with selected matches at BT Murrayfield.

kiss

The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war….. - Page 18 Davefr10

by **BigGee** Mon May 21, 2018 7:17 pm

By any objective evidence, Glasgow actually improved this season.

The previous season, we did not make the playoffs, were not even close.

The way the season petered out was disappointing, but maybe we set the bar a bit to high, based on our fantastic start. No-one had us down as winning the league before the start of the season, it was always meant to be a transitional season.

The post Toonie Glasgow era was always going to be a difficult act to follow for any coach, so DR needs a chance to prove himself. I think he knows now what he may or may not have known before, that a lot of the stars in the team, sometimes leave their best form behind after the end of the 6N.

He maybe needs to manage the squad a bit better over the whole season to keep them fresh at the death. Hopefully a few new additions to the squad and deeper competition will help that fall into place.

by **RDW** Mon May 21, 2018 7:30 pm

Glasgow certainly ran out of steam in a big way after New Year. The first half of the season they were played 12 won 11 in the league. Second half I think it is around played 9, won 4, lost 4, drawn 1 (including the semi-final).

by EWT Spoons Mon May 21, 2018 7:57 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Glasgow certainly ran out of steam in a big way after New Year. The first half of the season they were played 12 won 11 in the league. Second half I think it is around played 9, won 4, lost 4, drawn 1 (including the semi-final).

I can’t remember who said it, but after the game, one of the players said the team possibly felt it was job done, went off the boil a bit and then struggled to get back to the same levels again when it mattered.

Both the players and coaches will have learned a lot from this season, depending on signings/departures I think Glasgow will come back stronger next year.

by tigertattie Mon May 21, 2018 8:05 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:I think there has been a fair bit of kneejerk reactions on here following Glasgow’s defeat.

Whilst Glasgow lost, it’s worth remembering:

• This is DR’s first season in a new hemisphere, let alone league/club
• Glasgow still qualified with ease for a home semi final
• DR missed most of preseason
• Until Friday, no team had come away from Glasgow with a point

You've hit the nail on the head for me, but not in the way you intended. Allow me to flip what you are saying around.

Glasgow. A team set up for Rennie to walk into with a view of making it even better. However:

With Rennie missing most of the preseason, Glasgow hit the start of the season running, rushing off into a handy lead.
As the season went on, Rennie's influence started to strengthen.
Glasgow then started to get worse, to the extent that although they qualified for a home semi, they started losing games, then they lost at home for the first time in the season which was also the most important game.

by EST Mon May 21, 2018 8:06 pm

Even when Glasgow were winning all those games at the start of the season, they never really looked convincing, usually relying on a few moments of brilliance to get them through.

Glasgow need a much tougher edge to them next season. I'm still hopeful Rennie can bring success, but I do think he might need to change his approach to get there.

by EWT Spoons Mon May 21, 2018 8:11 pm

tigertattie wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:I think there has been a fair bit of kneejerk reactions on here following Glasgow’s defeat.

Whilst Glasgow lost, it’s worth remembering:

• This is DR’s first season in a new hemisphere, let alone league/club
• Glasgow still qualified with ease for a home semi final
• DR missed most of preseason
• Until Friday, no team had come away from Glasgow with a point

You've hit the nail on the head for me, but not in the way you intended. Allow me to flip what you are saying around.

Glasgow. A team set up for Rennie to walk into with a view of making it even better. However:

With Rennie missing most of the preseason, Glasgow hit the start of the season running, rushing off into a handy lead.
As the season went on, Rennie's influence started to strengthen.
Glasgow then started to get worse, to the extent that although they qualified for a home semi, they started losing games, then they lost at home for the first time in the season which was also the most important game.

Fair point, but I guess either way, it's too early to judge him, as you could easily be right, or my original point could be right. Until he gets a preseason and a 2nd season (now he know's more about the league) it's too early to say.

I guess though Rennie is a proven coach and I'm sure will come good.

by tigertattie Mon May 21, 2018 8:55 pm

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm all for giving Rennie another season. But he's going to have to deliver some silverware or vastly improve Glasgow's Euro credentials.

Shopping lists for both teams:

Edinburgh
Back up hooker
A starting scrummy
Fullback cover

Glasgow
A new backrow
A ball carrying destructive No 8 (Move Wilson back to 6 if you really have to play him)
A Scrummaging tighthead
A kick up the erse for Cummings or a new 2nd row partner for Gray
A back up 10 (You've got to cover for Hastings either - Not being able to cut it, getting injured, being called up to the Scotland Squad)
A defense coach

by EWT Spoons Mon May 21, 2018 9:17 pm

tigertattie wrote:Oh don't get me wrong, I'm all for giving Rennie another season. But he's going to have to deliver some silverware or vastly improve Glasgow's Euro credentials.

Shopping lists for both teams:

Edinburgh
Back up hooker
A starting scrummy
Fullback cover

Not sure we need a back up hooker as we have:

1. Rambo
2. Ford
3. Fenton
4. Cherry
5. SA lad who is joining who is a LH but can, at a push, play hooker.

Assuming ford comes back from injury (seems to be back in training) that should see us through.

Scrum half – 100% agree, Fowles is poor, Kennedy seems to be lower in the pecking order than Fowles which speaks volumes and Sheil who is totally untested.

Fullback cover – Possibly, I think we need to add some depth at FB &/or the wing, as after Fife and Duhan, we are a bit short on the wing, with Hoyland in and out the team (currently injured) and Brown who has been injured for ages.

by Hazel Sapling Mon May 21, 2018 9:36 pm

tigertattie wrote:Oh don't get me wrong, I'm all for giving Rennie another season. But he's going to have to deliver some silverware or vastly improve Glasgow's Euro credentials.

Shopping lists for both teams:

Edinburgh
~~Back-up Hooker~~
A starting scrummy
Fullback cover

Glasgow
A new backrow
A ball carrying destructive No 8 (Move Wilson back to 6 if you really have to play him)
~~A Scrummaging tighthead~~
A kick up the erse for Cummings ~~or a new 2nd row partner for Gray~~ McDonald has potential
~~A back up 10 (You've got to cover for Hastings either - Not being able to cut it, getting injured, being called up to the Scotland Squad)~~ Got P Horne, Thomson, Johnson and Jackson?
A defense coach A Lancaster or Cockerill-esque influence in the forwards would be the biggest addition possible

Where I would go with it. Think both sides need less than thought

by **RDW** Mon May 21, 2018 9:36 pm

I think we're OK at 15 with Kinghorn, Fife and VDW (who played most his rugby at 15 before joining Edinburgh)

by EWT Spoons Mon May 21, 2018 9:51 pm

According to the Daily Mail (i've not read it, but it's reported on the BBC as being from them) Rennie is eyeing up Luke Hamilton

by **BigGee** Mon May 21, 2018 9:57 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:According to the Daily Mail (i've not read it, but it's reported on the BBC as being from them) Rennie is eyeing up Luke Hamilton

It has long been rumoured that he is coming north. hard to believe that Toonie (who seems to rate him) would be taking him on tour if he did not have a club to play for next year. Edinburgh certainly don't need him, so that really only leaves Glasgow. I fancy he will come.

I am still very curious where John Hardie is going. Hard to imagine he is not going to pick up a club somewhere, would not be beyond the realms of possibility for him to come west as well. Back row is where we need some reinforcements.

by tigertattie Mon May 21, 2018 9:59 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think we're OK at 15 with Kinghorn, Fife and VDW (who played most his rugby at 15 before joining Edinburgh)

I'd not be moving VDM (mk2) off of that wing. He's been devastating there. Part of his destructiveness is that he plays almost as a second fullback. He drops back when defending and in attack, if the ball isn't coming to his wing, he goes marauding around the pitch looking for the ball. Sure, he'd do a job at 15 but I like him where he is with the silky skills of Kinghorn deployed from 15.

Fife is very much a bench option now (a good one at that) as he covers the back three and can even do 13 in case of emergency. Having said that, I suppose I've just talked myself into starting Fife when Kinghorn is away on Scotland duties.

by EWT Spoons Mon May 21, 2018 10:11 pm

tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I think we're OK at 15 with Kinghorn, Fife and VDW (who played most his rugby at 15 before joining Edinburgh)

I'd not be moving VDM (mk2) off of that wing. He's been devastating there. Part of his destructiveness is that he plays almost as a second fullback. He drops back when defending and in attack, if the ball isn't coming to his wing, he goes marauding around the pitch looking for the ball. Sure, he'd do a job at 15 but I like him where he is with the silky skills of Kinghorn deployed from 15.

Fife is very much a bench option now (a good one at that) as he covers the back three and can even do 13 in case of emergency. Having said that, I suppose I've just talked myself into starting Fife when Kinghorn is away on Scotland duties.

VDW = Jaco Van Der Walt - Edinburgh 10 this season. Not Duhan Van Der Merwe.
Fife is currently Edinburgh's 2nd best winger (behind Duhan), or possibly joint best, given they play on opposite wings, and he is our 2nd best FB. He's going to be starting most weeks I would imagine.

by EWT Spoons Mon May 21, 2018 10:19 pm

BigGee wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:According to the Daily Mail (i've not read it, but it's reported on the BBC as being from them) Rennie is eyeing up Luke Hamilton

I am still very curious where John Hardie is going. Hard to imagine he is not going to pick up a club somewhere, would not be beyond the realms of possibility for him to come west as well. Back row is where we need some reinforcements.

The rumours of him going home to NZ are still floating around, I'd like him to move to Glasgow, or at least stay in the NH, but I guess it might depend on how strong the pull of international rugby is to him vs going home to his friends & family.

by **RDW** Mon May 21, 2018 10:24 pm

tattie I said VDW - our 10, not VDM the winger!

VDW (our 10) played most his rugby at 15 before he moved to Edinburgh.

by tigertattie Mon May 21, 2018 10:27 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I think we're OK at 15 with Kinghorn, Fife and VDW (who played most his rugby at 15 before joining Edinburgh)

I'd not be moving VDM (mk2) off of that wing. He's been devastating there. Part of his destructiveness is that he plays almost as a second fullback. He drops back when defending and in attack, if the ball isn't coming to his wing, he goes marauding around the pitch looking for the ball. Sure, he'd do a job at 15 but I like him where he is with the silky skills of Kinghorn deployed from 15.

Fife is very much a bench option now (a good one at that) as he covers the back three and can even do 13 in case of emergency. Having said that, I suppose I've just talked myself into starting Fife when Kinghorn is away on Scotland duties.

VDW = Jaco Van Der Walt - Edinburgh 10 this season. Not Duhan Van Der Merwe.
Fife is currently Edinburgh's 2nd best winger (behind Duhan), or possibly joint best, given they play on opposite wings, and he is our 2nd best FB. He's going to be starting most weeks I would imagine.

we need to make an agreement. VDM and VDW are too similar (A W is just an upside down M, or is the M an upside down W???)

Anyway, from now on they are referred to as "Jaco" or "passable standoff" and "VDM (mk2)" or "Durhan the Destoryer"

by **BigGee** Mon May 21, 2018 10:51 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
BigGee wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:According to the Daily Mail (i've not read it, but it's reported on the BBC as being from them) Rennie is eyeing up Luke Hamilton

I am still very curious where John Hardie is going. Hard to imagine he is not going to pick up a club somewhere, would not be beyond the realms of possibility for him to come west as well. Back row is where we need some reinforcements.

The rumours of him going home to NZ are still floating around, I'd like him to move to Glasgow, or at least stay in the NH, but I guess it might depend on how strong the pull of international rugby is to him vs going home to his friends & family.

It would be very surprising if he was to turn down the opportunity of another WC, which he would be very much in the frame for should he still be playing in the NH, not to mention the chance of some decent money for a few more years. Maybe the suspension issue has had some effect on him though and he just wants to be away from all of it.

He sent out a goodbye and thank you to Edinburgh tweet at the end of the season but gave no indication of what was happening next. He has been giving away a lot of kit on twitter though. I guess we will find out soon enough.

by **RDW** Mon May 21, 2018 11:56 pm

Tom English once again summarising things well.

He was fairly scathing of the performance - was it really that bad?? I didn't bother watching it afterwards given what happened.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44182252

by **BigGee** Tue May 22, 2018 1:06 am

Was it that bad?

Yes it probably was, not because we lost, Scarlets are a very good side who don't seem to be phased by playing away from home.

For us to give three tries away in such a sloppy manner in the first half was just unforgiveable and despite playing better in the second half, we were never really in the game. We did not even give them a game really, Horne missing the conversion in front of the posts, which would have kept us within two scores and given us a glimmer, just about summed it up. There was just a complete lack of big game mentality about the Glasgow side that the Scarlets seemed to have in spades. I do wonder if the players even thought they were going to win the game before we kicked off. It did not look like it.

by Eejit Tue May 22, 2018 4:00 am

Is anyone who already booked Dublin going anyway or will we be the only Weegies in town?

by **BigGee** Tue May 22, 2018 7:27 pm

John Barclay had an operation to repair his Achilles Tendon yesterday. He won't be making his Edinburgh debut any time soon. That would usually be 6-9 months out.

We won't be seeing him in the AIs and even the 6N may be touch and go, his goal may be to get back for the WC now. That is a great shame for him.

New Scotland captain needed as well.

by **RDW** Tue May 22, 2018 7:33 pm

Massive lovesacks - that's not what Edinburgh or Scotland need. Hopefully it is the lower end of the scale so he can return later this year and get back up and running for the 6N and into the world cup year.

Laidlaw back to captain then??

by **BigGee** Tue May 22, 2018 7:39 pm

Finn Russell is now in the barbarians squad for their game this weekend.

If ever a player was made for a barbarians shirt it surely was our Finn!

I am a bit more inclined to watch the game now!

by tigertattie Tue May 22, 2018 7:49 pm

BigGee wrote:John Barclay had an operation to repair his Achilles Tendon yesterday. He won't be making his Edinburgh debut any time soon. That would usually be 6-9 months out.

We won't be seeing him in the AIs and even the 6N may be touch and go, his goal may be to get back for the WC now. That is a great shame for him.

New Scotland captain needed as well.

This all Glasgow's fault with their cheap and nasty all weather pitch!

by EWT Spoons Tue May 22, 2018 7:53 pm

I can see Edinburgh making a move for Hamilton now. If Barclay is out for that long we probably need some more cover in the BR.

Other option is trying to get Hardie to stay for a year, but hearing he's back in NZ now, and is likely to stay there.

by Hazel Sapling Tue May 22, 2018 8:21 pm

Edinburgh really are not having much luck with major signings after Bennett last year. With the money tied up (would he be insured for his full salary by the club?), Hamilton is probably more suited to Glasgow.

Barclay's injury is going to sap his speed. He is big enough to be effective (maybe not as a 7), whether he can quickly become an international again is a big ask.

It opens up a spot at 6 for Scotland. Ritchie, Hamilton, M Fagerson, Wilson, Bradbury, Denton and Strauss are the options for the 6/8 spots. Think Cowan missed the boat, but stranger things have happened.

by tigertattie Tue May 22, 2018 8:57 pm

I've not seen the prognosis for Barclay but even at the top end of the severity scale, he'd be looking at 12 months out which should get him back for the WC.

Going on an average lay off of four months, I'd see him returning to club rugby at the beginning of October which would mean he could get a few games in for the November series. It would be pushing it but it is possible. As he's getting on, he may be better off returning to club rugby during the Nov series and then he'll be fighting fit for the 6Ns next season.

So lets hope for the better scenario here Smile

by EST Tue May 22, 2018 8:59 pm

Such a shame for Barclay, he has really established himself as the national captain and is in the form of his life. Here's hoping he gets back up to speed soon.

by Hazel Sapling Tue May 22, 2018 9:47 pm

4 months from Achilles tear? Fairly sure that is like some rugby league players coming back from an ACL in 4 months. It would be incredible.

Is Carmichael a lock or a 6?

by EWT Spoons Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 pm

primarily a lock but has played in the BR, but seems to be shunted about there (played 6 & 7 so far I think)

by EST Tue May 22, 2018 10:01 pm

I would say this is a big chance for Bradbury to force his way into the Scotland team - he still needs to improve his work rate, but he is the type of player we are crying out for in the BR.

by Guest Tue May 22, 2018 10:15 pm

Some complaints about the Glasgow pitch. Anything in this? It was a particularly hot day so can see that it may have been a bit dry. But surely Glasgow would be head to toe in burns by the end of the season if there was an issue with the pitch and burns?! Sarries and Blues don't seem to have trouble as far as I know.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44208535

I think it was Pontypridd who had similar complaints recently, but it led to the pitch being removed and a new one installed.

by **RDW** Tue May 22, 2018 10:24 pm

If the Glasgow pitch is the same as the 4G one at Murrayfield I feel their pain - I still have scars from the skin that was removed from my legs when I played on it 5 years ago! It rips you to pieces, especially if you slide along it in a tackle (I was slid into touch in a tackle and it ripped a load of skin off)

You've got to wonder how Glasgow get used to it and how they aren't covered in friction burns every week.

by Guest Tue May 22, 2018 10:34 pm

No, I believe the Murrayfield pitch has a hybrid pitch (real and synthetic mix). A huge number of teams have these now. Lots in soccer, the Millennium stadium, Aviva, etc. But Glasgow, Cardiff and Sarries have fully synthetic/plastic pitches. Like Astroturf I think!

by **RDW** Tue May 22, 2018 10:36 pm

The 4G pitch I'm referring to is one of the back pitches Oracle. You are correct that the main pitch is a hybrid.

by Guest Tue May 22, 2018 10:37 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:The 4G pitch I'm referring to is one of the back pitches Oracle. You are correct that the main pitch is a hybrid.

Oh right, sorry. haven't tried either to be honest. Some of those burns look nasty!

by **RDW** Tue May 22, 2018 10:40 pm

One of the guys in the team was so bad he had to go to hospital as the burns became infected! Ruled him out for a few weeks. I'm amazed they play games on that kind of surface.

There's very little bounce on them either - you really do feel the impact when you land on it instead of soft mud (or puddles as is the norm in Scotland).

by **BigGee** Tue May 22, 2018 11:10 pm

I was down on the Sarries pitch after the Euro quarter final last year and I was amazed at how much give there was in the pitch, I always imagine them as being much firmer than they actually are. I think the newer ones that the pro teams play on and there are quite a few of those: Glasgow, Worcester, Newcastle, Cardiff and Sarries off the top of my head are a big improvement on some of the earlier ones.

What a lot of players don't like is changing from one surface to the other as they do have quite a different feel to grass. I don't think the actual numbers of injuries on one or the other is particularly significant.

People used to injure themselves on grass as well. The worst knee injury I ever got playing, which kept me out for a whole season, was playing in a mudpool, where I latterly got stuck in the mud and was a sitting duck for the big brute who then came in and wiped me out!

The increase in injuries amongst professional players is much more related to the size and the power of the guys hitting you rather than the pitches!

by **BigGee** Tue May 22, 2018 11:32 pm

Edinburgh just issued a statement about JB, saying he is expected to be out for at least 6 months. He will do well to get back for the 6N.

by tigertattie Wed May 23, 2018 12:04 am

I think the 6ns will be his target. Hope he can recover as we really do need him at an international level.

Backrow in the absence of JB? I can see them going for Bradbury or CDP at 6 with Ryan "I'm not an 8" at 8

by **BigGee** Wed May 23, 2018 1:05 am

Finally a signing for Glasgow

David Tamilau, an American International, with some Somoan heritage by the sound of it. Joining from Narbonne.

A big lad, 122kg and 6ft 4, plays No.8. Hopefully can be developed into the kind of big ball carrier that we really need to give us some go forward.

Hopefully the conditioners can knock him into really good shape over the summer.

by **RDW** Wed May 23, 2018 1:17 am

He is a big lad!

There is a long line of relatively unknown monsters who just haven't been able to make the step up and have disappeared without making any kind of impact. Here's hoping this isn't one of them.

He's playing in the USA leagues just now so not a great pedigree.

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Wed May 23, 2018 1:35 am

Hopefully has more impact than the last comedy massive American that Glasgow signed. He was awful that lad. Loved a yellow card though.

by Hazel Sapling Wed May 23, 2018 2:20 am

Is Vunisa gone?

by **BigGee** Wed May 23, 2018 2:27 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:Is Vunisa gone?

Yes, never really set the heather on fire unfortunately. He was a decent player back in the day for Italy, but never really reproduced that form for Sarries or us.

I guess this new guy is another inexpensive punt, maybe his last chance at a decent rugby career which he will grab eagerly and show us what a decent player he really is. I don't imagine he will be getting rich on the kind of contract he will be getting, so I don't imagine he is here for a pension. He has probably got a bit more pedigree than Langi Langi had but I guess we will just have to wait and see if he is going to be anything other than a squad player.

Hopefully we still have a few to come who will get the pulse racing a bit more than this one.

by EST Wed May 23, 2018 2:38 am

Mmmm, well that is a very uninspiring signing - at 28 you would have thought if he was the next Samu Manoa he would have shown it by now.

by Eejit Wed May 23, 2018 2:40 am

Bit of a risk but on the other hand, he is absolutely massive...

by **RDW** Wed May 23, 2018 2:45 am

To be fair Glasgow don't need him to be the next Samo Manoa (although it would be nice), they just need someone that can carry hard and effectively while being fairly competent at other parts of the game!

It is amazing how high a level top level rugby really is - you see these man beasts and think that they would be able to make an impact, but they either tend to not be fit enough or skillfull enough to cope with the game.

by **BigGee** Wed May 23, 2018 3:56 am

It will be good to see what he looks like over the summer when Scotland play the yanks

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