Glasgow and Edinburgh Ongoing Banter Thread 26

[Hazel Sapling]

A continuation on previous threads discussing the past, the present and the future of Scottish rugby. A dose a day, keeps optimism away

Halfway through a Covid season and not far from the Rainbow cups, both teams are on the precipice of missing out on the top tier in Europe next year. The Rainbow Cup is a well thought out idea of including sides from South Africa, the home to a new Covid variant that vaccines may not work on, with international travel involving several regions of Europe.

Glasgow Squad

LH: Kebble, Bhatti, Lambert
Hooker: F Brown, Turner, Stewart, Matthews,
TH: Z Fagerson, Berghan, Pieretto, McCallum, McQuillan
Locks: Cummings, R Gray, Harley, McDonald, Bain, Bean
Back Row: Wilson, Gordon, M Fagerson, Darge, Dempsey, Miller, G Brown

SH: Price, G Horne, Dobie, Kennedy
FH: Weir, Miotti, P Horne, Thompson
Centres: S Johnson, McDowall, Tuipulotu, Grigg, Fergusson
Back Three: McLean, Forbes, McKay, Cancelliere, Tagive, Steyn, O Smith


Edinburgh Squad

LH: Schoeman, Venter, Grahamslaw
Hooker: McInally, Cherry, McBurney, Harrison
TH: Nel, De Bruin, Atalifo, Williams
Locks: Gilchrist, Toolis, Young, Hodgson, Sykes, Phillips
Back Row: Mata, Ritchie, Watson, Bradbury, Crosbie, Haining, Boyle, Kunavula, Muncaster

SH: Pyrgos, Vellacott, Shiel
FH: VDW, Chamberlain, Savala
Centres: Lang, Taylor, Bennett, Dean, Johnstone, Venter, Currie, Hutchison
Back Three: Graham, Kinghorn, Hoyland, Blain, Bofelli, Moyano, Immelman, Owsley


Previous Thread
https://www.606v2.com/t69760-the-glasgow-and-edinburgh-general-chat-discussions-are-limited-to-6-people-before-10pm-to-prevent-the-spread-of-jimboish
https://www.606v2.com/t69555-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-24-covid-funtimes?highlight=banter
https://www.606v2.com/t69038-glasgow-and-edinburgh-banter-thread-no-23-new-season-new-thread?highlight=banter

[BigGee]

Well done Hazel

[RDW]

Woah, 25 ongoing banter threads down and we get a name change? Was there a vote on this??

[RDW]

There's going to be an A-team 1872 fixture this week which is good news - a good chance to see some fringe players. Most of them probably haven't played more than a game or two of rugby in a year.

Any weegie want to put a team together for who might be involved?

Edinburgh could be something like:

1 - Grahmslaw
2 - Kitchen (partnership with Ayreshire Bulls so must be world class)
3 - Atalifo
4 - Sykes
5 - Davidson
6 - Kunavula
7 - Darge
8 - Miller

9 - Dan Nutton
10 - Chamberlain
11 - Korie Winters (came over from NZ last year)
12 - Matt Gordon
13 - ?
14 - Alec Coombes (7s player)
15 - Jack Blain

Not gonna lie I had to look at the squad list for some of that! I'm sure there's a few other Super 6 players who have been training the entire time too.

Hopefully they can have a few more fixtures over the next few months to give more players gametime.

[RDW]

Interview with Finlay Christie in The XV. Says he's signed another year in NZ and will see how things go after that. He confirmed that the SRU had been in contact but he didn't want to up sticks just now given everything going on (completely understandable given the difference in life between NZ and UK right now!). The article also noted that he's not actually that far away from an AB callup particularly with TJ Perenara in Japan for this season.

Could be a big year for him, either way!

[BigGee]

Potential Glasgow side for the A team fixture:

1. Thornton
2. Mathews
3. Nicol
4. Blain
5. McDonald
6. Ioane
7. Fusaro
8. Lokotui
9. Kennedy
10. Thompson R
11. Tagive
12. McDowell
13. Kelly
14. Mclean
15. Smith

That does not look such a bad team in truth!

[RDW]

Potential Glasgow side for the A team fixture:

1. Thornton
2. Mathews
3. Nicol
4. Blain
5. McDonald
6. Ioane
7. Fusaro
8. Lokotui
9. Kennedy
10. Thompson R
11. Tagive
12. McDowell
13. Kelly
14. Mclean
15. Smith

That does not look such a bad team in truth!

Doesn't look much different from the first team!

[NeilyBroon]

Potential Glasgow side for the A team fixture:

1. Thornton
2. Mathews
3. Nicol
4. Blain
5. McDonald
6. Ioane
7. Fusaro
8. Lokotui
9. Kennedy
10. Thompson R
11. Tagive
12. McDowell
13. Kelly
14. Mclean
15. Smith

That does not look such a bad team in truth!

Doesn't look much different from the first team!

Kelly still has a contract at Glasgow??

[George Carlin]

Woah, 25 ongoing banter threads down and we get a name change? Was there a vote on this??

I'm so proud. Or embarrassed. One of the two.

[RDW]

I might dig out thread 1 tomorrow - see what we were talking about back in 1997.

[George Carlin]

I might dig out thread 1 tomorrow - see what we were talking about back in 1997.

I think that Jimbo was just celebrating his 80th?

[BigGee]

Potential Glasgow side for the A team fixture:

1. Thornton
2. Mathews
3. Nicol
4. Blain
5. McDonald
6. Ioane
7. Fusaro
8. Lokotui
9. Kennedy
10. Thompson R
11. Tagive
12. McDowell
13. Kelly
14. Mclean
15. Smith

That does not look such a bad team in truth!

Doesn't look much different from the first team!

Kelly still has a contract at Glasgow??

I beleive so, though it is hard to imagine he will have at the end of this season, he has hardly ever played.

A decent prospect, but seems to have been injured a lot.

[EST]

I like how the SRU have organised this A fixture, some of those lads will have been training for months on end without getting a game.

[NeilyBroon]

I like how the SRU have organised this A fixture, some of those lads will have been training for months on end without getting a game.

Hopefully it forces some of them into selection contention, particularly during the 6Ns. For my money Thompson is probably Glasgow's first choice FH, at least until Weir gets there. Not convinced by keatley.

[BigGee]

Thompson just signed his first pro contract!

[EST]

Thompson just signed his first pro contract!

Really good news - Duncan Weir, Ross Thompson and Brandon Thomson (assuming his confidence isn't irreparably damaged) isn't setting the heather alight, but is a solid group going forward with plenty of scope for RT to push on.

[Hazel Sapling]

I would assume B Thomson is out of contract and probably gone. Does not have the quality. At one time, he looked like he could become a decent second choice to hold the fort during internationals but he has regressed.

P Horne I would think is third choice. We could do with another young player to be fourth choice or a veteran to push P Horne back to 12.

[Hazel Sapling]

For the A game, could do with trying out one of the apparent back-rows we have in the academy for Glasgow rather than Ioane. Melville is a highly rated young player who could come in at 15 and push Ollie Smith to 13. Alternatively, Steyn coming back from injury would be great to see.

Edinburgh could do with getting Crosbie on the pitch if he is fit and maybe Jordan Venter at 13. Otherwise, what is the status of poor George Taylor? Is he approaching fitness? On the wings, surely Hoyland could do with a game.

[BigGee]

George Taylor was back for the last Edinburgh game and promptly got red carded!

Won't be seeing him for 3 weeks now!

[RDW]

Edinburgh team

https://www.edinburghrugby.org/the-clubhouse/edinburgh-a-team-named-for-scotstoun-clash

[BigGee]

Glasgow apparently not naming a team but are going to have a squad with rolling subs

[RDW]

Glasgow apparently not naming a team but are going to have a squad with rolling subs

Work shy weegies!

[bsando]

Hastings was on the BBC Scottish rugby podcast and chipped in on his thoughts of Dave Rennie at Glasgow. He obviously had a good relationship with Rennie but he made a point of saying that 99% of the players would say he was a good coach. He mentioned that his old flatmate Smith was doing well when they lived together, with twelve games on the trot at one point and that Smiths mental health struggles occurred afterwards.

If there is one common denominator from all these cases it would seem that professional players not getting game time slowly leads to malaise or low morale, mental health problems and ultimately resentment at the coaches and system. The Super 6 could really help in this regard. If we want big squads to promote competition then perhaps Edinburgh and Glasgow should be offloading players to play for their designated club in the Super 6? It'll help boost the competitive nature of the comp if pro's are turning out at these clubs and encourage more fans to attend games.

[EST]

I would assume B Thomson is out of contract and probably gone. Does not have the quality. At one time, he looked like he could become a decent second choice to hold the fort during internationals but he has regressed.

P Horne I would think is third choice. We could do with another young player to be fourth choice or a veteran to push P Horne back to 12.

Yeah, I tend to agree on B Thompson. Reason I included him is that with neither Weir or Thomson likely to be away with Scotland and Horne available to fill in, I think he would be fine to have as a squad player until his contract runs out (I'm not sure when that is tbh). When that happens i'd hope a young player can come in and fill that 3/4th choice role.

[RDW]

Looks like Roddy Grant has made a success of his move to Ulster as coach, as he's signed a new 2 year deal.

We have a lot of debate about whether players should leave the Scottish clubs or not. With young oaches it's a no brainer. Hopefully Hodge takes some inspiration!

[BigGee]

I would assume B Thomson is out of contract and probably gone. Does not have the quality. At one time, he looked like he could become a decent second choice to hold the fort during internationals but he has regressed.

P Horne I would think is third choice. We could do with another young player to be fourth choice or a veteran to push P Horne back to 12.

Yeah, I tend to agree on B Thompson.  Reason I included him is that with neither Weir or Thomson likely to be away with Scotland and Horne available to fill in, I think he would be fine to have as a squad player until his contract runs out (I'm not sure when that is tbh).  When that happens i'd hope a young player can come in and fill that 3/4th choice role.

His contract will be done at the end of this season and it seems fanciful to see it being renewed.

So for next season, it will be Weir, Thompson and A N Other. That could be Keatley if he shows that he has still got another year in the tank and there are a couple of kids in the academy (including Townsend Jnr), so the FH situation not quite as bleak as it was.

[EST]

I would assume B Thomson is out of contract and probably gone. Does not have the quality. At one time, he looked like he could become a decent second choice to hold the fort during internationals but he has regressed.

P Horne I would think is third choice. We could do with another young player to be fourth choice or a veteran to push P Horne back to 12.

Yeah, I tend to agree on B Thompson.  Reason I included him is that with neither Weir or Thomson likely to be away with Scotland and Horne available to fill in, I think he would be fine to have as a squad player until his contract runs out (I'm not sure when that is tbh).  When that happens i'd hope a young player can come in and fill that 3/4th choice role.

His contract will be done at the end of this season and it seems fanciful to see it being renewed.

So for next season, it will be Weir, Thompson and A N Other. That could be Keatley if he shows that he has still got another year in the tank and there are a couple of kids in the academy (including Townsend Jnr), so the FH situation not quite as bleak as it was.

If there is decent prospect coming through, i'd much prefer they got the gig than Keatly being kept on. With Weir and Horne available pretty much throughout the year, not sure if we need another elder statesman.

[funnyExiledScot]

Glasgow A put in their place, although it sounds like the weather kept the scoreline down.

[BigGee]

Simon Berghan signs for Glasgow, I did not see that one coming.

Presumably means that Edinburgh have a new TH coming and Nel not planning on hanging up his boots just yet.

He is 30 as well, so not really the long term answer for Glasgow either, though he will do a decent job in the short/medium term.

[Hazel Sapling]

Luan De Bruin had signed for Edinburgh for three years according to reports and plays either side. Nel, De Bruin, McCallum and Gamble is a decent rotation.

Z Fagerson, Berghan, Pieretto, Rae, McQuillan and Nicol for Glasgow seem one too many. Guessing that McQuillan will fall out with the three TH's to cover ZF and Berghan during Scotland duty.

At least with adding Bhatti and Berghan, we have added two fringe Scotland players as second options to kick on rather than Seiuli and Pieretto.

[jimbopip]

Pieretto and Rae
Who will go
Who will stay?

Also
Bhatti-Brown-Berghan the Nasty B's!!!

[RDW]

Didn't see that coming either, but makes sense if Edinburgh have a promising Saffer coming in.

Berghan will so a good job.

[BigGee]

Looks like Brandon Thompson heading back to SA, reported that he has signed for the Cheetahs from March.

That would mean him being released early from his warriors contract, but hard to imagine that Glasgow would stand in his way of that opportunity.

[jimbopip]

Thompson's absence will be greeted by the Warrior Nation in much the same way as Dorothy Parker reacted to the news that President Taft (I think) had died,
" How can they tell?"

[EST]

Good news for Brandon, I think deep down there is a better player in there than he has managed to show in the last few months - he has played well and contributed to the Warriors in seasons past. Definitely the right decision though, hopefully a fresh start will do him good.

[BigGee]

Confidence is a funny old thing, even for very talented sports people. Once it departs, it can be very hard to get it back, even more so in team sports, when your means of doing so, playing well, are likely to be taken away from you if you get dropped because of it.

Unfortunately for BT, you just knew that once he missed that sitter against the Drags, he was just never going to recover from it.

Hope he re finds his mojo back in sunny SA.

[EST]

Confidence is a funny old thing, even for very talented sports people. Once it departs, it can be very hard to get it back, even more so in team sports, when your means of doing so, playing well, are likely to be taken away from you if you get dropped because of it.

Unfortunately for BT, you just knew that once he missed that sitter against the Drags, he was just never going to recover from it.

Hope he re finds his mojo back in sunny SA.

Yeah, you could see the confidence drain away since then in his performances.

Not sure what to make of the Berghan transfer, he is a solid enough player and presume he is being brought across for when Zander departs.  Have to admit, not massively inspired by the transfer and can't imagine he is going to improve much as a player given his age, but maybe thats the pond we are fishing in just now.  

Fagerson
Berghan
Pieretto
Rae
Nicol
McQuillin

You would think one or maybe two from that list are likely to leave at the end of the season.

[BigGee]

It sounds like Edinburgh are bringing in new props and needed some budget for them.

He is better than some of our current options, but a step down from Zander and not a long term option.

He will improve our options next yesr, providing ZF stays but after that someond wi beed to step up, or we will need to get the chequebook out if he needs to be replaced.

Zander must be on reasonable money already, so hopefully there may be some spsre cash to do that.

[RDW]

I think Glasgow fans are getting a bit picky here - he would do a job at international level of required which means he's more than good enough for Pro 14/Europe. You wouldn't get another prop anywhere near his level without forking out a huge wedge on a foreigner. And let's face it there wont be many top tightheads banging down your door to sign.

As someone to rely upon when Zander is away he's a great signing.

[EST]

I think Glasgow fans are getting a bit picky here - he would do a job at international level of required which means he's more than good enough for Pro 14/Europe. You wouldn't get another prop anywhere near his level without forking out a huge wedge on a foreigner. And let's face it there wont be many top tightheads banging down your door to sign.

As someone to rely upon when Zander is away he's a great signing.

Well, there is a fair chance Cockerill rates this new Saffer above Berghan - no reason Glasgow couldn't have looked at somebody similar.

Like I said, he is solid enough player - but he has no real room for improvement and when Zander departs it is a significant step down. I think I would have rather we spent the money on somebody with the potential to reach Zanders level, who we could develop for the next year ZF is still with us (presuming he doesn't get bought out of his contract early!

[Hazel Sapling]

Depends on how Nicol or our academy props are viewed. If it is a case of we see one of them make a leap over the next 2 - 3 seasons when Berghan is a capable starting option, there is no point forking out for a foreign prop.

As much as project props have really helped stabilise the LH spot for Scotland (though without Kebble, Bhatti may have stayed at Glasgow in the first place and without Schoeman, either McCallum or Marfo may have got more of a shot), we really need to be looking to developing three or four domestic props.

Nicol played well last season for Glasgow, Maks Wilson had enough potential to be signed by Quins and Murphy Walker/Dan Gamble were in Offside Line's Super Six Team of the Year. There are plenty of young players who need playing time to find out what they are and whether they can cut it. McCallum has become a cautionary tale of a talented young player who had potential and got stuck in a logjam at Edinburgh.

[RDW]

Again I think a bit of a reality check is needed! Fagerson is a once in a generation player who is basically the first 'home grown' international class tighthead produced since Euan Murray. In the last 4 years that Fagerson has been playing for Scotland pretty much our only other regular options have been Nel and our mate Berghan. Both were in no way established when they came over here and Edinburgh developed them into international class players. Berghan has 27 caps and has held his own in that period - that's no mean feat in the most brutal position in rugby. If that's the car to set that's a pretty high bar.

He may not be Fagerson class but he's a big step up from a Darcey Rae, Nicol or the latest random Tongan or Fijian that gets brought in for a season then disappears having barely played. Nicol has 4 starts in 5 years at Glasgow.

If this class of signing is seen as a disappointment I think weegies are going to be incredibly disappointed with the rest of them! Glasgow are in desperate need of extra classz experience and depth in the squad.

[EST]

Again I think a bit of a reality check is needed! Fagerson is a once in a generation player who is basically the first 'home grown' international class tighthead produced since Euan Murray. In the last 4 years that Fagerson has been playing for Scotland pretty much our only other regular options have been Nel and our mate Berghan. Both were in no way established when they came over here and Edinburgh developed them into international class players. Berghan has 27 caps and has held his own in that period - that's no mean feat in the most brutal position in rugby.

He may not be Fagerson class but he's a big step up from a Darcey Rae, Nicol or the latest random Tongan or Fijian that gets brought in for a season then disappears having barely played.

If this class of signing is seen as a disappointment I think weegies are going to be incredibly disappointed with the rest of them! Glasgow are in desperate need of extra classz experience and depth in the squad.

Again, Edinburgh are bringing in somebody who they must rate higher than Berghan. There is a market out there for props who have a higher ceiling than Berghan and who are likely broadly similar in price.

I'm not massively dissapointed, he is a decent TH and from a Scotland and contracting perspective it makes sense to bring in a known entity. I just don't think it's a particularly inspiring transfer.

[EWT Spoons]

It was his choice to leave Edinburgh. He's not been happy there for a while. He's also in and around the Scotland set up, so Nel and he are normally away, leaving Edinburgh very short at TH during international windows.

Edinburgh are bringing in a 28/29 year old south african lad to replace him on considerably more money, who I suspect is going to be our starting TH, which is not something Glasgow currently need, given Zander is still there.

[BigGee]

https://www.theoffsideline.com/edinburgh-sign-boan-venter-2/?v=79cba1185463

As one prop leaves Edinburgh, another arrives

A LH this time and is already here and in quarantine. Can't play this weekend, but will be covering Sutherland for the rest of the 6N period no doubt.

[Hazel Sapling]

I guess Edinburgh are assuming Schoeman will not be around during internationals from now on. Edinburgh are probably fine though if Atalifo is staying that would probably help as De Bruin and McCallum have experience at LH as cover. Alternatively, Glasgow have one too many TH's and could send one back over

Edinburgh props for next season (Likely to be away during internationals, NSQ)

LH: Schoeman, Sutherland, Venter, Grahamslaw, Academy
TH: Nel, De Bruin, McCallum, Gamble, Academy

Glasgow props for next season

LH: Kebble, Bhatti, Seiuli, Allan, Thornton, Lambert
TH: Fagerson, Berghan, Pieretto, Rae, Nicol, McQuillan, Walker

[BigGee]

I can see Glasgow losing a LH and TH from that list and i doubt they will be going to Edinburgh.

Allan may or may not recover from his Achilles injury

we also need to see something of Rae, Nicol, McQuillan or Walker this season to see if any of them might step up to the mark either.

[EST]

I guess Edinburgh are assuming Schoeman will not be around during internationals from now on. Edinburgh are probably fine though if Atalifo is staying that would probably help as De Bruin and McCallum have experience at LH as cover. Alternatively, Glasgow have one too many TH's and could send one back over

Edinburgh props for next season (Likely to be away during internationals, NSQ)

LH: Schoeman, Sutherland, Venter, Grahamslaw, Academy
TH: Nel, De Bruin, McCallum, Gamble, Academy

Glasgow props for next season

LH: Kebble, Bhatti, Seiuli, Allan, Thornton, Lambert
TH: Fagerson, Berghan, Pieretto, Rae, Nicol, McQuillan, Walker

When does Schoeman qualify for Scotland Hazel, do you know?

Edinburgh have a serious stable of LHs given McCallum can do a shift there too.

[BigGee]

I guess Edinburgh are assuming Schoeman will not be around during internationals from now on. Edinburgh are probably fine though if Atalifo is staying that would probably help as De Bruin and McCallum have experience at LH as cover. Alternatively, Glasgow have one too many TH's and could send one back over

Edinburgh props for next season (Likely to be away during internationals, NSQ)

LH: Schoeman, Sutherland, Venter, Grahamslaw, Academy
TH: Nel, De Bruin, McCallum, Gamble, Academy

Glasgow props for next season

LH: Kebble, Bhatti, Seiuli, Allan, Thornton, Lambert
TH: Fagerson, Berghan, Pieretto, Rae, Nicol, McQuillan, Walker

When does Schoeman qualify for Scotland Hazel, do you know?  

Edinburgh have a serious stable of LHs given McCallum can do a shift there too.

Pretty sure Scheoman will be SQ next autumn. The change in the rules definitely worked in his (and our) favour

[Hazel Sapling]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53720537

Schoeman is definitely qualified by November, not sure on if he will be for the 2021 summer tour (if we even have one). Article says middle of the year so depends on when he flew over.

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