Ulster Rugby 2017-18

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Jeez - O’Donoghue eeled his way through that maul and caught Herring.

Leinster'll send us a few left overs.

The Cipriani thing... let's remember that rugby is business too. We tend to ignore money when deciding who we want and don't.
It appears that Cipriani is leaving because he doesn't want to play second fiddle to Sopoaga. If there aren't many clubs wanting him, his bargaining power will go down.
In short, I'd take Cipriani at the right price. Who else in Europe is looking for a starting 10?

Given Cipriani's past social lifestyle habits and choices, is Ulster rugby seriously going to want him coming in - especially when he's perhaps in a mood now to give up trying to be Mister Nice Guy to better his chances of having a part of play in England International?

clivemcl wrote:The Cipriani thing... let's remember that rugby is business too. We tend to ignore money when deciding who we want and don't.
It appears that Cipriani is leaving because he doesn't want to play second fiddle to Sopoaga. If there aren't many clubs wanting him, his bargaining power will go down.
In short, I'd take Cipriani at the right price. Who else in Europe is looking for a starting 10?

He's apparently off to Japan for a few billion Yen as no one else wants him, apparently has been a bit of a diva recently and blowing hot and cold around the training ground. Maybe Sopoaga coming in meant he lost interest or maybe his loss of interest forced Wasps to go for Sopoaga but this is a club he apparently loves

[quote="SecretFly"]Given Cipriani's past social lifestyle habits and choices, is Ulster rugby seriously going to want him coming in - especially when he's perhaps in a mood now to give up trying to be Mister Nice Guy to better his chances of having a part of play in England International?[/quote

Has he been in any trouble in recent years? I thought he's some what reformed

carpet baboon wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Given Cipriani's past social lifestyle habits and choices, is Ulster rugby seriously going to want him coming in - especially when he's perhaps in a mood now to give up trying to be Mister Nice Guy to better his chances of having a part of play in England International?[/quote

Has he been in any trouble in recent years? I thought he's some what reformed

He only got his license back recently after being caught drink driving

marty2086 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Given Cipriani's past social lifestyle habits and choices, is Ulster rugby seriously going to want him coming in - especially when he's perhaps in a mood now to give up trying to be Mister Nice Guy to better his chances of having a part of play in England International?[/quote

Has he been in any trouble in recent years? I thought he's some what reformed

He only got his license back recently after being caught drink driving

Wasn't it this time last year it came out that there had been an attempt to defraud him out of a lot of money by a stripper he'd been keeping the company of and allegedly had gotten up the doofer. Now I am in no way against keeping such company but it says a lot about his lifestyle.

Can Ulster Rugby be described as a sinking ship yet?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/sport/rugby/101384112/

Pete330v2 wrote:Can Ulster Rugby be described as a sinking ship yet?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/sport/rugby/101384112/

Oops.  That's not sounding good.

Roll on the Spring and the lambs and Vitamin D!

If both Cooper and Cipriani turn you down you know you’re a bit too hot to touch.

Cyril wrote:If both Cooper and Cipriani turn you down you know you’re a bit too hot to touch.

They didn't.

Ulster have no interest in Cooper or Cipriani and never have

Geoff, your opinion of the need of a back three signing?

geoff999rugby wrote:Ulster have no interest in Cooper or Cipriani and never have

Ulster and everyone else

Pete330v2 wrote:Can Ulster Rugby be described as a sinking ship yet?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/sport/rugby/101384112/

Told you he was going at the end of the season, that's why he hasn't been given Kiss job.

The only question is whether Farrell is just a stop gap or a long term option. I can't see him leaving his Ireland post before the RWC.

It's the Ulster way Rodders. We've been stop-gapping for years now.
But if we perservere, we have our ideal coach and he's pencilled in for 2023 - we just need 2 or 3 more stop gaps till then. But boy oh boy, it's going to be sooooo worth it, and world domination will be ours! All hail Logan!

The club have no long term plan at all. Even with the other provinces and the switching around of coaches you feel that they at least had long term plans in the sense of training up home grown coaches.

Like look at all the investment went into the likes of Bell, Doak, Clarke. McLaughlin was replaced by Anscombe because they wanted more experience, but what is he doing now? Why give him a year, then demote him and then he's totally gone.

I guarantee you Peel and Gibbs will be long gone within 2 seasons and we'll be no further on in terms of long term coaches.

Makes you wonder what Gibbes was doing over xmas when he flew back home

clivemcl wrote:Geoff, your opinion of the need of a back three signing?

Not a priority

The urgent needs are a 10 and a LH
After that we must have Coetzee fit or a replacement
Centre is more a issue than the back three - only McCloskey and Marshall certain. Cave still not a definite although Kiss leaving means he may well stay after all
That is 3 players
In the back three we have Ludik, Gilroy, Stockdale, Lyttle, Trimble, Nelson - 6 players

rodders wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Can Ulster Rugby be described as a sinking ship yet?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/sport/rugby/101384112/

Told you he was going at the end of the season, that's why he hasn't been given Kiss job.

The only question is whether Farrell is just a stop gap or a long term option. I can't see him leaving his Ireland post before the RWC.

I'd imagine Farrell wouldn't consider leaving an international post before a world cup especially to the 'Old Boy' driven club that Ulster is. If there is the much needed clearing out of dead wood then who knows but with the current structure Ulster Rugby is something of a poisoned chalice. The past may well have come to haunt the club, I mean who would want to sign up if your employer could take a dislike and sign you off regardless of any success? Who would want to come to a club that only put up a cursory fight against the IRFU to retain a much needed star player who loved the place? It's OK insisting on home grown coaches etc but who've we got? Could McCall even make a difference if he were to be miraculously tempted away from the AP?

Pete330v2 wrote: It's OK insisting on home grown coaches etc but who've we got?

But that is exactly my point, how can we have no one even on the radar.

Forget McCall, why would he even entertain the idea? He's running one of the biggest clubs in Europe and pretty sure he won't have forgotten how he was treated before. I'd say hell would freeze over before he would consider any interest from Ulster.

Gibbes has made it quite clear he has no interest in being a Head Coach.

There are no local coaches anywhere near good enough

geoff999rugby wrote:Gibbes has made it quite clear he has no interest in being a Head Coach.

There are no local coaches anywhere near good enough

So basically he wanted the title but not the responsibility?

Irish coaches.
Gervan Dempsey at Leinster, doing a great job as the attack coach, can't see him moving.
ROG. Munster man who's building a good reputation as a coach. Publicy stated he doesn't want to coach Munster while there are people there he used to play with. Could he be tempted? Strong enough character .
McCall. No chance he would return.
Felix Jones. Still learning can't see him leaving Munster.
POC???? I know he's coaching with the Ireland u20 and Munsters academy but not coached enough.

There is one man coaching in Ireland who would be perfect for a root and branch reform of Ulster, and that's good stewie Lancaster. If the irfu back him with orders to come in and sort out the (many) problems we seem to have I think he would be perfect, while we find an Irish coach to learn under him and eventually take over.

Oh no.

Just when he had our forwards looking so sharp and well-drilled.

carpet baboon wrote:Irish coaches.
Gervan Dempsey at Leinster, doing a great job as the attack coach, can't see him moving.
ROG. Munster man who's building a good reputation as a coach. Publicy stated he doesn't want to coach Munster while there are people there he used to play with. Could he be tempted? Strong enough character .
McCall. No chance he would return.
Felix Jones. Still learning can't see him leaving Munster.
POC???? I know he's coaching with the Ireland u20 and Munsters academy but not coached enough.

There is one man coaching in Ireland who would be perfect for a root and branch reform of Ulster,  and that's good stewie Lancaster. If the irfu back him with orders to come in and sort out the (many) problems we seem to have I think he would be perfect, while we find an Irish coach to learn under him and eventually take over.

Everyone overlooks Geordan Murphy and he's been looking to take a top job too, has been linked to Cardiff and Ospreys

Would love Lancaster, but I don't know if he'd want to leave Leinster or indeed if the IRFU would be happy about that.

marty2086 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Irish coaches.
Gervan Dempsey at Leinster, doing a great job as the attack coach, can't see him moving.
ROG. Munster man who's building a good reputation as a coach. Publicy stated he doesn't want to coach Munster while there are people there he used to play with. Could he be tempted? Strong enough character .
McCall. No chance he would return.
Felix Jones. Still learning can't see him leaving Munster.
POC???? I know he's coaching with the Ireland u20 and Munsters academy but not coached enough.

There is one man coaching in Ireland who would be perfect for a root and branch reform of Ulster,  and that's good stewie Lancaster. If the irfu back him with orders to come in and sort out the (many) problems we seem to have I think he would be perfect, while we find an Irish coach to learn under him and eventually take over.

Everyone overlooks Geordan Murphy and he's been looking to take a top job too, has been linked to Cardiff and Ospreys

Quite right. I had forgotten about him

Does no-one think someone who has been a head coach at club level might be nice?

Les? No.
Doak? No.
Anscombe? No.
McLaughlin? No.

Could we please splash out on someone who has a bit of experience at this level?

Don Alfonso wrote:Does no-one think someone who has been a head coach  at club level might be nice?

Les? No.
Doak? No.
Anscombe? No.
McLaughlin? No.

Could we please splash out on someone who has a bit of experience at this level?

You mean like Cheika or Schmidt had?

Come on guys what about Eddie O'Sullivan? We need someone who can whisk an egg with cheese grater.

marty2086 wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Does no-one think someone who has been a head coach  at club level might be nice?

Les? No.
Doak? No.
Anscombe? No.
McLaughlin? No.

Could we please splash out on someone who has a bit of experience at this level?

You mean like Cheika or Schmidt had?

Yeah, good point. Let's stick to gambling on untested first-timers, because Leinster struck gold at one stage. It's working so well for us, and the landscape is exactly the same as it was then.

If we just do the same thing again and again and again and again, it's bound to work out for us at some stage. Guaranteed.

The positive news is that Lyttle, Piutau and Reidy are all out for a minimum of 6 weeks

Don Alfonso wrote:Does no-one think someone who has been a head coach  at club level might be nice?

Les? No.
Doak? No.
Anscombe? No.
McLaughlin? No.

Could we please splash out on someone who has a bit of experience at this level?

Anscombe and Mclaughlin were pretty successful for us.

By contrast we had the likes of Matt Williams was a disaster.

Given the uniqueness of the provincial set up here, Ulster is not a club it is a branch of the IRFU, being a head coach elsewhere is not necessarily good preparation for the job.

rodders wrote:Come on guys what about Eddie O'Sullivan? We need someone who can whisk an egg with cheese grater.

He's actually a good choice.  And the first bucko that tried saying 'No, we don't do it that way here.' - little EOS would be dug out of him!  He don't like mucking around with no fools.

Is he the future?  No.  But I think he'd stop the nonsense and focus the player's minds back on rugby for a start.  Two or three seasons, then hand the baton over to Jerry Flannery for fine tuning.  

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:Come on guys what about Eddie O'Sullivan? We need someone who can whisk an egg with cheese grater.

He's actually a good choice.  And the first bucko that tried saying 'No, we don't do it that way here.' - little EOS would be dug out of him!  He don't like mucking around with no fools.

Is he the future?  No.  But I think he'd stop the nonsense and focus the player's minds back on rugby for a start.  Two or three seasons, then hand the baton over to Jerry Flannery for fine tuning.  

Flannery, no chance!

But seriously there is something serious in that none of our ex-players in recent times have been encouraged to go into coaching - it's all guys who straddled the amateur era.

Look at the likes of Dempsey, Flannery, Jones, Cullen at the other provinces.

Why is the likes of Stephen Ferris not passing on his considerable knowledge to the next generation?

Best, Bowe and Trimble are coming close to the end, surely this is what we should be looking at, developing play

rodders wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Does no-one think someone who has been a head coach  at club level might be nice?

Les? No.
Doak? No.
Anscombe? No.
McLaughlin? No.

Could we please splash out on someone who has a bit of experience at this level?

Anscombe and Mclaughlin were pretty successful for us.

By contrast we had the likes of Matt Williams was a disaster.

Given the uniqueness of the provincial set up here, Ulster is not a club it is a branch of the IRFU, being a head coach elsewhere is not necessarily good preparation for the job.

I take your point about it being an IRFU branch.

Anscombe benefited from the determination and squad cohesion in the wake of Spence's death. And while McLaughlin was unexpectedly good in terms of results, aren't we in this precarious situation because no proper foundations were laid for the future? Maybe not his responsibility, I suppose. I am happy to go out in both sets of play-offs next year if some kind of real improvement happens in terms of our Academy system or club scene

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:Come on guys what about Eddie O'Sullivan? We need someone who can whisk an egg with cheese grater.

He's actually a good choice.  And the first bucko that tried saying 'No, we don't do it that way here.' - little EOS would be dug out of him!  He don't like mucking around with no fools.

Is he the future?  No.  But I think he'd stop the nonsense and focus the player's minds back on rugby for a start.  Two or three seasons, then hand the baton over to Jerry Flannery for fine tuning.  

Flannery, no chance!

But seriously there is something serious in that none of our ex-players in recent times have been encouraged to go into coaching - it's all guys who straddled the amateur era.

Look at the likes of Dempsey, Flannery, Jones, Cullen at the other provinces.  

Why is the likes of Stephen Ferris not passing on his considerable knowledge to the next generation?

Best, Bowe and Trimble are coming close to the end, surely this is what we should be looking at, developing play    

If we did it, you would moan about "jobs for the boys".

Don Alfonso wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Does no-one think someone who has been a head coach  at club level might be nice?

Les? No.
Doak? No.
Anscombe? No.
McLaughlin? No.

Could we please splash out on someone who has a bit of experience at this level?

You mean like Cheika or Schmidt had?

Yeah, good point. Let's stick to gambling on untested first-timers, because Leinster struck gold at one stage. It's working so well for us, and the landscape is exactly the same as it was then.

At one stage? That's twice and Cullen would seemingly be three not to mention they appointed Matt O'Connor too who won the league

Munster had Kidney take them to two HC Finals in his first stint, after his second stint he was replaced by McGahan in his first top job and he won the league twice.

That's not to mention that the last time we won anything it was under an inexperienced coach

rodders wrote:
Why is the likes of Stephen Ferris not passing on his considerable knowledge to the next generation?

Think he said in a interview last week that he doesn't think he'd be welcome at the club, think he's also doing some coaching at school and club level

Don Alfonso wrote:

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:Come on guys what about Eddie O'Sullivan? We need someone who can whisk an egg with cheese grater.

He's actually a good choice.  And the first bucko that tried saying 'No, we don't do it that way here.' - little EOS would be dug out of him!  He don't like mucking around with no fools.

Is he the future?  No.  But I think he'd stop the nonsense and focus the player's minds back on rugby for a start.  Two or three seasons, then hand the baton over to Jerry Flannery for fine tuning.  

Flannery, no chance!

But seriously there is something serious in that none of our ex-players in recent times have been encouraged to go into coaching - it's all guys who straddled the amateur era.

Look at the likes of Dempsey, Flannery, Jones, Cullen at the other provinces.  

Why is the likes of Stephen Ferris not passing on his considerable knowledge to the next generation?

Best, Bowe and Trimble are coming close to the end, surely this is what we should be looking at, developing play    

If we did it, you would moan about "jobs for the boys".

Why do you say that, there is a distinct difference between succession planning and developing indigenous coaches and giving jobs to people who clearly aren't up to it and driving out anyone who doesn't stick to the script.

See the comments around Ferris, why wouldn't he feel welcome, he's a local legend? Other than he speaks his mind and isn't a Logan/Cunningham fan boy.

Cullen is not three. He didn't look any great shakes until Lancaster came in.

And we are not in the position of either of the other two provinces. Did Monday not have an all-Ireland first choice pack, pretty much? And are you actually describing MOC as a good coach with Leinster? I know he won the league. I could have won the league with that team. But if you think MOC was a good appointment, cool.

rodders wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:Come on guys what about Eddie O'Sullivan? We need someone who can whisk an egg with cheese grater.

He's actually a good choice.  And the first bucko that tried saying 'No, we don't do it that way here.' - little EOS would be dug out of him!  He don't like mucking around with no fools.

Is he the future?  No.  But I think he'd stop the nonsense and focus the player's minds back on rugby for a start.  Two or three seasons, then hand the baton over to Jerry Flannery for fine tuning.  

Flannery, no chance!

But seriously there is something serious in that none of our ex-players in recent times have been encouraged to go into coaching - it's all guys who straddled the amateur era.

Look at the likes of Dempsey, Flannery, Jones, Cullen at the other provinces.  

Why is the likes of Stephen Ferris not passing on his considerable knowledge to the next generation?

Best, Bowe and Trimble are coming close to the end, surely this is what we should be looking at, developing play    

If we did it, you would moan about "jobs for the boys".

Why do you say that, there is a distinct difference between succession planning and developing indigenous coaches and giving jobs to people who clearly aren't up to it and driving out anyone who doesn't stick to the script.

See the comments around Ferris, why wouldn't he feel welcome, he's a local legend? Other than he speaks his mind and isn't a Logan/Cunningham fan boy.

Does he have what it takes to be a coach? Maybe Jeremy Davidson would come back, or Jonny Bell.

Don Alfonso wrote:Cullen is not three. He didn't look any great shakes until Lancaster came in.

And we are not in the position of either of the other two provinces. Did Monday not have an all-Ireland first choice pack, pretty much? And are you actually describing MOC as a good coach with Leinster? I know he won the league. I could have won the league with that team. But if you think MOC was a good appointment, cool.

So Cullen knew his strengths and weaknesses and appointed someone to support him? That's good leadership

And maybe Leinster should have appointed you over Cullen then since he couldn't win the league with that pack

rodders wrote:
See the comments around Ferris, why wouldn't he feel welcome, he's a local legend? Other than he speaks his mind and isn't a Logan/Cunningham fan boy.

You'd have to ask him but he's not always been the most pleasant of people to deal with

Don Alfonso wrote:
Does he have what it takes to be a coach? Maybe Jeremy Davidson would come back, or Jonny Bell.

I think you've missed my point Don, it's not about Stephen Ferris its about the fact that for nearly 20 years no retired player has remained at the club in a coaching capacity post retirement - they've all either got out of there or for whatever reason weren't encouraged or welcome.

Look at many other successful clubs and organisations, some or all of their coaching team involves ex-players.

I'm not talking about guys who played in the 90's here, this is 2018, we are long supposed to be a professional organization instead it is like an amateur club with professional facilities and a load of money to throw around on the odd high profile recruit.

rodders wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:
Does he have what it takes to be a coach? Maybe Jeremy Davidson would come back, or Jonny Bell.

I think you've missed my point Don, it's not about Stephen Ferris its about the fact that for nearly 20 years no retired player has remained at the club in a coaching capacity post retirement - they've all either got out of there or for whatever reason weren't encouraged or welcome.

Look at many other successful clubs and organisations, some or all of their coaching team involves ex-players.

I'm not talking about guys who played in the 90's here, this is 2018, we are long supposed to be a professional organization instead it is like an amateur club with professional facilities and a load of money to throw around on the odd high profile recruit.

Doak, Clarke and McCall all went into coaching with Ulster after retiring. That's all within the last 20 years

One out of three isn't too bad a return.

So why did McCall leave? And please don't tell me that he was finding he didn't have enough power to pick and choose his players and his tactics.

SecretFly wrote:One out of three isn't too bad a return.

So why did McCall leave?  And please don't tell me that he was finding he didn't have enough power to pick and choose his players and his tactics.

Clarke was McCalls assistant so he couldn't have been too awful at one point and Ulster were bottom of the league when McCall left and were getting hammered in Europe