Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

[LondonTiger]

First topic message reminder :

When:
Sunday 04 February 2018 15:00 GMT, 16:00 (Local time)


Where:
Stadio Olimpico, Viale dei Gladiatori, Rome, Italy


TV:
ITV, FR2, TV3, DMAX, NBC


Officials:
Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Nic Berry (Australia)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)


Head to Head:
Played - 18
Wins - England 18
Tries - Italy 7, England 48


Teams:

Italy
15 Matteo MINOZZI (Zebre Rugby Club, 3 caps)*
14 Tommaso BENVENUTI (Benetton Rugby, 45 caps)*
13 Tommaso BONI (Zebre Rugby Club, 8 caps)*
12 Tommaso CASTELLO (Zebre Rugby Club, 5 caps)
11 Mattia BELLINI (Zebre Rugby Club, 8 caps)*
10 Tommaso ALLAN (Benetton Rugby, 33 caps)
9 Marcello VIOLI (Zebre Rugby Club, 8 caps)*
8 Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 129 caps) - capitano
7 Renato GIAMMARIOLI (Zebre Rugby Club, 1 cap)*
6 Sebastian NEGRI (Benetton Rugby, 2 caps)
5 Dean BUDD (Benetton Rugby, 6 caps)
4 Alessandro ZANNI (Benetton Rugby, 99 caps)
3 Simone FERRARI (Benetton Rugby, 8 caps)
2 Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Stade Toulosain, 89 caps)
1 Andrea LOVOTTI (Zebre Rugby Club, 20 caps)*

16 Luca BIGI (Benetton Rugby, 6 caps)
17 Nicola QUAGLIO (Benetton Rugby, 2 caps)*
18 Tiziano PASQUALI (Benetton Rugby, 2 caps)
19 George BIAGI (Zebre Rugby Club, 19 caps)
20 Maxime MBANDA’ (Zebre Rugby Club, 11 caps)*
21 Edoardo GORI (Benetton Rugby, 65 caps)*
22 Carlo CANNA (Zebre Rugby Club, 25 caps)
23 Jayden HAYWARD (Benetton Rugby, 3 caps)


England
15 Mike Brown (Harlequins 64 caps)
14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby 28 caps)
13 Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors 8 caps)
12 Owen Farrell (Saracens 53 caps)
11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers 29 caps)
10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers 40 caps)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers 73 caps)
1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens 44 caps)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints 89 caps)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers 77 caps)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps 47 caps)
5 Maro Itoje (Saracens 14 caps)
6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints 61 caps)
7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins 59 caps)
8 Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs 3 caps)


16 Jamie George (Saracens 20 caps)
17 Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs uncapped)
18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs 5 caps)
19 George Kruis (Saracens 21 caps)
20 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby 3 caps)
21 Danny Care (Harlequins 76 caps)
22 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby 35 caps)
23 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs 23 caps)

[Heaf]

How any penalties has Itoje given away today?

Thought the last one was wrong though as the tackler was still laying all over him helping the other player get on the ball ...

[Geordie]

Well Ireland will not fear anything they've seen today!!

It's Wales next week!

I ws reffering to the fact England and Ireland are supposed to be the two favourites...

[Scottrf]

Robshaw holding the man not the ball. Rucks are reffed so so badly.

[kingelderfield]

All told both Ford and Farrell have kicked far to much possession away, more often than not they've been poor kicks giving us little chance of competing when we should have the confidence to attack much much more with ball in hand.
The AB's would kill us with the amount of attacking opportunities we're presenting Italy.

[SecretFly]

England know that Italy won't beat them...so it's a psychology thing obviously.  But I'm shocked by how much Jones is letting his players just cruise through this game.  I'm not saying it's a bad move as he doesn't want his competitors knowing everything he means to bring, which is obviously more than his team are showing right now.  But I got this game completely wrong.  I thought England were in a mood to create an unbeatable rhythm from the beginning.

[mid_gen]

Robshaw holding the man not the ball. Rucks are reffed so so badly.

If the tackled player is lying over the ball like that with a jackler over the top, it's a penalty for holding on every single time. If the tackled player wasn't in the way, Robshaw would have clear hands on the ball. No arguments with that at all.

[Heaf]

Yes after a promising start it all went a bit flat

[Scottrf]

Robshaw holding the man not the ball. Rucks are reffed so so badly.

If the tackled player is lying over the ball like that with a jackler over the top, it's a penalty for holding on every single time. If the tackled player wasn't in the way, Robshaw would have clear hands on the ball. No arguments with that at all.

He was on so quick that he couldn't present. But I guess he has to land better. More bothered that it's not consistent.

[kingelderfield]

How do people think the Te'o selection went? Personally I think the guy is all impact but I can see how Joseph needs the hurry from Jones.

[Scottrf]

How do people think the Te'o selection went? Personally I think the guy is all impact but I can see how Joseph needs the hurry from Jones.

His carries came to nothing really. Joseph has looked better.

[lostinwales]

I thought Te'o has been good tbh.

[SecretFly]

They are expecting it!!!! They are! Shut it, man!

[Sgt_Pooly]

I'd love to see Teo/JJ midfield

[mid_gen]

All told both Ford and Farrell have kicked far to much possession away, more often than not they've been poor kicks giving us little chance of competing when we should have the confidence to attack much much more with ball in hand.
The AB's would kill us with the amount of attacking opportunities we're presenting Italy.

Kicking game from Ford and Farrell has been terrible.

Italy are tired now, their bench is poor. Expect we'll run in a few more.

[Scottrf]

Honestly how can people suggest dropping Ford? He's been everything for us today.

[Duty281]

Looks like 5 losses for Italy this year.

[mid_gen]

Nowell and JJ have both been lively...

[Geordie]

So ten mins to go and we finally see some forwards actually popping passes to each other etc...instantly look better!

[WELL-PAST-IT]

It's that last 20 again, score is looking far away from the way Italy have played

[lostinwales]

I dunno about Watson MOM but he's a great winger

[Sgt_Pooly]

It's great seeing a dominant scrum!

Not convinced with Simmonds at 8 but flanker he could be great. Can't wait to see Billy fit, that's some back row we're building.

[No 7&1/2]

Midfield defence looks better to me when Joseph is there.

[Scottrf]

I dunno about Watson MOM but he's a great winger

Should be Ford. Created the overlap for the first try, scored his own after putting Farrell through, created the one at the end with the over the top pass etc...

[SecretFly]

Rejuvenated Italy?


Hmm

[Cyril]

They look better than Scotland!

[lostinwales]

I dunno about Watson MOM but he's a great winger

Should be Ford. Created the overlap for the first try, scored his own after putting Farrell through, created the one at the end with the over the top pass etc...

And I'd say May has been the more important of the two as well.

Some nice tries

[Cumbrian]

England looked very good in patches. If they can string those patches together they could have a good tournament.

[Scottrf]

Rejuvenated Italy?


Hmm

It's the 6 Nations cycle. Scotland dark horses for the title, Italy might cause a few surprises etc...

[Geordie]

Simmonds was good.

But should be a flanker.
Simmonds and Underhill at 6 and 7 could be explosive.

[No 7&1/2]

Back row needs tweaking. I pull scott s leg on lawes carrying. It's fine for a lock that good at lineout and clearing but he is a lock. Balance is all wrong with one at 6.

[Scottrf]

I even agree with you on it. But on today's evidence Itoje is the one who should make way.

[mid_gen]

Rejuvenated Italy?


Hmm

Their first XV was playing some decent rugby for 60 minutes, to their credit.

Not the first team to get soundly beaten by us in the last quarter...

[SecretFly]

Oh I don't know.... 'rejuvenated' is much too strong a word for what I saw.  I think it's England that were guilty of cruising too much....if you could class it as guilt.  I'd prefer say wily.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

All told both Ford and Farrell have kicked far to much possession away, more often than not they've been poor kicks giving us little chance of competing when we should have the confidence to attack much much more with ball in hand.
The AB's would kill us with the amount of attacking opportunities we're presenting Italy.

Kicking game from Ford and Farrell has been terrible.

Italy are tired now, their bench is poor. Expect we'll run in a few more.

I thought the kicking game has generally been good, England knew the Italians lacked the pace to produce serious counter attacks and replied on their chase and defence to hold everything up in the Italian half.

Ford has once again shown his vision is better than any other English 10, he seems to know where every player and every gap is, his combo with Farrell is so good.

Simmons was very impressive, his acceleration is unbelievable  along with his work rate, a BV-SS-CR backrow could prove to be awesome.

Italy have improved massively under COS, they are now a cohesive unit that still has a good pack and now some excellent backs.

[englishborn]

if Italy compete like that for all 5 games then it will be damage the case for Georgia to replace them

[Scottrf]

if Italy compete like that for all 5 games then it will be damage the case for Georgia to replace them

They lost by 30 points at home.

It's the only game where I don't even consider that we can lose. It's still a pointless week in the tournament.

[TightHEAD]

Italy played well until the last 12 mins, thay have more than enough to hurt Scotland and Wales.

[BigGee]

if Italy compete like that for all 5 games then it will be damage the case for Georgia to replace them

They lost by 30 points at home.

It's the only game where I don't even consider that we can lose. It's still a pointless week in the tournament.

You have clearly never been to Rome.

A weekend there is never pointless!

[SecretFly]

if Italy compete like that for all 5 games then it will be damage the case for Georgia to replace them

They lost by 30 points at home.

It's the only game where I don't even consider that we can lose. It's still a pointless week in the tournament.

You have clearly never been to Rome.

A weekend there is never pointless!

Don't be dirty, BeeGee!

[Exiledinborders]

if Italy compete like that for all 5 games then it will be damage the case for Georgia to replace them

They lost by 30 points at home.

It's the only game where I don't even consider that we can lose. It's still a pointless week in the tournament.

It is not pointless. Although England never lose against them the others all do which is useful for England.

[mikey_dragon]

Italy played well until the last 12 mins, thay have more than enough to hurt Scotland and Wales.

I can see Wales putting 60+ on Italy; seems to be the norm unless Howley is pulling the strings.

[nathan]

All told both Ford and Farrell have kicked far to much possession away, more often than not they've been poor kicks giving us little chance of competing when we should have the confidence to attack much much more with ball in hand.
The AB's would kill us with the amount of attacking opportunities we're presenting Italy.

But we are not playing the all blacks so it's a pointless argument.

[nathan]

Italy played well until the last 12 mins, thay have more than enough to hurt Scotland and Wales.

I can see Wales putting 60+ on Italy; seems to be the norm unless Howley is pulling the strings.

Based on one game where the Scots failed to turn up?

[SecretFly]

Pointless bickering going on here.

[No 7&1/2]

If we can have the scrum and lineout as solid next week it will be a good start.

[TightHEAD]

Going have to sharpen up our defence.

[mikey_dragon]

Italy played well until the last 12 mins, thay have more than enough to hurt Scotland and Wales.

I can see Wales putting 60+ on Italy; seems to be the norm unless Howley is pulling the strings.

Based on one game where the Scots failed to turn up?

Haha are some of you still running this trend? Wales might actually win a game by playing well one day, hopefully in my lifetime... but to answer your question, no. It's not just based on that game. It's based on club and international games across this entire season, and the fixtures between the two over the last 3 seasons; the same players are still playing each other. I've mentioned club form because this season it is relevant for Wales with the style they're adopting and because of the number of Scarlets in the team. You're quite welcome to disagree and say Wales will lose of course, but with such a daft opinion comes a response. and we know how you guys don't like a fair and accurate response if the previous match thread is anything to go by .

[SecretFly]

Italy played well until the last 12 mins, thay have more than enough to hurt Scotland and Wales.

I can see Wales putting 60+ on Italy; seems to be the norm unless Howley is pulling the strings.

Based on one game where the Scots failed to turn up?

No, it's based on 25 meetings and 22 wins for Wales. If that team today beat this Wales side this year then Wales should offer their spot to Georgia.

[TightHEAD]

Can we not talk about Wales on an Eng v Italy thread?

Please!!!!

[mikey_dragon]

Italy played well until the last 12 mins, thay have more than enough to hurt Scotland and Wales.

I can see Wales putting 60+ on Italy; seems to be the norm unless Howley is pulling the strings.

Based on one game where the Scots failed to turn up?

No, it's based on 25 meetings and 22 wins for Wales.  If that team today beat this Wales side this year then Wales should offer their spot to Georgia.

Haha. Georgians have been quite vocal since their narrow loss to Wales seconds, as if it merits them entry into the tournament. If we swapped Georgia with Italy I feel Georgia will suffer the same fate albeit to a lesser extent as they have more players in French clubs.

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