Springboks vs England, squad announcements and matchday thread.

[Biltong]

I will update as more information is released.

Springbok team announced for the first test vs England.

15 Zane Kirchner, caps 14
14 JP Pietersen, caps 42
13 Jean de Villiers (captain), caps 72
12 Frans Steyn, caps 47
11 Bryan Habana, caps 74
10 Morné Steyn, caps 34
9 Francois Hougaard, caps 15
8 Pierre Spies, caps 47
7 Willem Alberts, caps 9
6 Marcell Coetzee, caps 0
5 Juandré Kruger, caps 0
4 Eben Etzebeth, caps 0
3 Jannie du Plessis, caps 30
2 Bismarck du Plessis, caps 42
1 Beast Mtawarira, caps 32

Replacements:
16 Adriaan Strauss, caps 9
17 Coenie Oosthuizen, caps 0
18 Flip van der Merwe, caps 11
19 Keegan Daniel, caps 1
20 Ruan Pienaar, caps 51
21 Pat Lambie, caps 11
22 Wynand Olivier, caps 34

I am surprised and happy to see Eben etzebeth in the starting XV and Strauss on the bench, Meyer has gone for a 4-3 split on the bench which is interesting. The pack has 160 combined caps with 4 debutants, the back line has a combined cap of 302 caps.

I am actually rather impressed with Meyer's selections. The English may see this pack as vulnerable and inexperienced, but I think it is a rather exciting pack. full of mobility and physicality.

England Team:

15 Mike Brown, caps 3
14 Chris Ashton, caps 23
13 Manusamoa Tuilagi, caps 10
12 Brad Barritt, caps 5
11 Ben Foden, caps 26
10 Owen Farrell, caps 5
9 Ben Youngs, caps 17
8 Ben Morgan, caps 5
7 Chris Robshaw (C), caps 6
6 Tom Johnson, 0 caps
5 Geoff Parling, 2 caps
4 Mouritz Botha, 6 caps
3 Dan Cole, 25 caps
2 Dylan Hartley, 34 caps
1 Joe Marler, 0 caps


Replacements:
16 Lee Mears, 38 caps
17 Paul Doran Jones, 3 caps
18 Tom Palmer, 37 caps
19 Phil Dowson, 5 caps
20 Lee Dickson, 0 caps
21 Toby Flood, 46 caps
22 Jonathan Joseph, 0 caps

[Zander]

Kirchner ahead of Lambie! Can only be good news for England.

[Biltong]

Yeah, he isn't my favourite. At least it isn't earl rose.

[yappysnap]

I will update as more information is released.

I am surprised and happy to see Eben etzebeth in the starting XV and Strauss on the bench, Meyer has gone for a 4-3 split on the bench which is interesting. The pack has 160 combined caps with 4 debutants, the back line has a combined cap of 302 caps.

I am actually rather impressed with Meyer's selections. The English may see this pack as vulnerable and inexperienced, but I think it is a rather exciting pack. full of mobility and physicality.

That is a huge amount of experience that we won't be able to match, but after the 6N's where we had less caps then any other team we should be used to that now.

I don't see that pack as vulnerable in anyway and I don't think the Eng team will either, infact if you get your tails up early then we could easily see repeats of the rollickings that we got in the last two encounters.

You guys do seem to enjoy mullering us.

[Biltong]

You guys do seem to enjoy mullering us.

Only because you guys speak the same language mate.

[propdavid_london]

Wow, inexperienced in some places but that is still a good SA side. With game changers like Lambie and Pienaar to come off the bench.
Every SA pack will be big and gnarly and difficult to deal with. Great to see Juandré Kruger given his chance, I remember him from his time at Saints.

I expect the England test side will look something like this -
15.Foden
14. Ashton
13.Tuilagi
12.Barritt
11.Strettle
10.Flood/Farrell
9.Care
8.Morgan
7.Robshaw
6.Dowson
5.Botha
4.Parling
3.Cole
2.Hartley
1.Corbisiero

Bench-
Marler, Grey, PDJ, Fearns, Palmer, Dickson, Brown

[Cryptoyourisan]

Is de Villiers actually playing at outside centre of is that just a numbering thing?

[Biltong]

Yes he will play at 13.

[HongKongCherry]

I'm really looking forward to seeing how the SA boiler room gets on. I hugely rated Kruger at Saints and whilst they managed to get to the HC final without him, I don't feel they have been as good as side since he left. Etzebeth is just a beast. He's had a good season and it'll be interesting to see if he is ready to make the step up.

I'd say Kruger is a better player than Parling, but will a lack of international experience show? Likewise, whislt I feel Etzebeth will be a far better player, Botha should be able to school such a whipper snapper - either way it's going to be a great match up.

[yappysnap]

Yea Kruger is a real talent, he'll be organising the lineout too and if I remember right Saints was pretty slick with him at the helm. Parling could struggle against him as he is a lot more physical.

Botha actually looked pretty good in the Baabaa's game so lets hope he carries on that form, I think I actually remember him running with the ball and offloading!

Would be good to see either PDJ or Marler in there, both are much better at Mauling then the current props and I have a feeling SA will want to test us in that area a lot, the current guys didn't seem to have a clue how to Maul in the 6N's and judging by our usual talent for it i'm inclined to blame the players over the coaches.

[Biltong]

I'm really looking forward to seeing how the SA boiler room gets on. I hugely rated Kruger at Saints and whilst they managed to get to the HC final without him, I don't feel they have been as good as side since he left. Etzebeth is just a beast. He's had a good season and it'll be interesting to see if he is ready to make the step up.

I'd say Kruger is a better player than Parling, but will a lack of international experience show? Likewise, whislt I feel Etzebeth will be a far better player, Botha should be able to school such a whipper snapper - either way it's going to be a great match up.

It reminds me of the old (very old) bull and the young (but strapping) bull that stands on the hill side, they are looking at the cows down at the bottom of the hill, and the young strapping bull says to the old bull "lets run down there, jump over the fence and have or way.

The very old bull turns to him and says "why don't we stroll down, open the gate and have them all?"

Upon which the young strapping bull (I add this piece to benefit Etzebeth) says " OK, you take your time, if I am not done with them all by the time you get there, you can have the left overs"

[FerN]

Kirchner ahead of Lambie! Can only be good news for England.

Even though I am not a Kirchner fan, Lambie didn't do that well in my opinion at FB. He definitely is the better player between the 2 of them, just not so sure that he is the better FB.

[Biltong]

Kirchner ahead of Lambie! Can only be good news for England.

Even though I am not a Kirchner fan, Lambie didn't do that well in my opinion at FB. He definitely is the better player between the 2 of them, just not so sure that he is the better FB.

In a way, I can accept that thinking.

[Duty281]

Wow, inexperienced in some places but that is still a good SA side. With game changers like Lambie and Pienaar to come off the bench.
Every SA pack will be big and gnarly and difficult to deal with. Great to see Juandré Kruger given his chance, I remember him from his time at Saints.

I expect the England test side will look something like this -
15.Foden
14. Ashton
13.Tuilagi
12.Barritt
11.Strettle
10.Flood/Farrell
9.Care
8.Morgan
7.Robshaw
6.Dowson
5.Botha
4.Parling
3.Cole
2.Hartley
1.Corbisiero

Bench-
Marler, Grey, PDJ, Fearns, Palmer, Dickson, Brown

I'd go with that except Farrell at 10 and Dickson at 9.

[LondonTiger]

The old bull was stood in the field, girding his loins in preparation of the days work, when the gate opened and a strapping young bull was let in to the field. The old bull wandered over to greet the new arrival. Just as he was about to speak the young bull looked up and said "Hello grandad, I guess you are the feeble, past it bull I am to replace. I will put a smile back on the faces of those cows"

"I am sure you will" said the young bull " but first you need to pass the initiation test. Just a small race around the field"
"Pfft" said the young bull " I can beat you easily"
"Tell you what" replied the old bull "Seeing as you are so much younger, how about you give me a headstart. I will start, you count to 3 and then you can start. Just let out a huge roar when you start so I know you have not cheated"

Details agreed, the old bull started to run. 3 seconds later a huge bellow was heard as the young bull started to chase after the old, followed just a few moments later by a loud gunshot.

"Dammit" said the farmer "that is the 3rd homosexual bull I have had to put down this month"

[yappysnap]

Youngs and Flood to start with Care and Farrel on the bench.

Youngs and Flood are our best pairing and have to be used. Dickson did well covering for the others over the 6N's but his form has slumped.

[Biltong]

good thing there will be no shotguns at the ground then, eh?

[yappysnap]

The old bull was stood in the field, girding his loins in preparation of the days work, when the gate opened and a strapping young bull was let in to the field. The old bull wandered over to greet the new arrival. Just as he was about to speak the young bull looked up and said "Hello grandad, I guess you are the feeble, past it bull I am to replace. I will put a smile back on the faces of those cows"

"I am sure you will" said the young bull " but first you need to pass the initiation test. Just a small race around the field"
"Pfft" said the young bull " I can beat you easily"
"Tell you what" replied the old bull "Seeing as you are so much younger, how about you give me a headstart. I will start, you count to 3 and then you can start. Just let out a huge roar when you start so I know you have not cheated"

Details agreed, the old bull started to run. 3 seconds later a huge bellow was heard as the young bull started to chase after the old, followed just a few moments later by a loud gunshot.

"Dammit" said the farmer "that is the 3rd homosexual bull I have had to put down this month"

I'll be sending that in to FHM...

[LondonTiger]

I would like to see Flood and either Youngs or Care start, but I expect to see Farrell and Dickson and Hodgson and Care on the bench.

I doubt Lancaster will pick 5 forwards on the bench, but with Corbs injury doubts there is a chance that Marler will start. I hope Johnson is preferred to Dowson.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Agree with Yappy I'd with go Youngs/Flood and look to get at possible lack of mobility in midfield(being hopeful).

Not of a fan of Dickson but he's a solid 3rd option

[Morgannwg]

No room for Mr Overated himself at no.9 then?

[Biltong]

No room for Mr Overated himself at no.9 then?

Gareth invited him to do some summer trout fishing in wales.

[doctor_grey]

12 Frans Steyn, caps 47 (nee: Francois)
9 Francois Hougaard, caps 15

I understand it is illegal for any team or country outside of France to have more than one player named Francois.

Unless one of them is your butler: Francois, bring me a scone..........

[Bullsbok]

No room for Mr Overated himself at no.9 then?

Mike "two-step"philips isnt playing on saturday ?

[Biltong]

No room for Mr Overated himself at no.9 then?

Mike "two-step"philips isnt playing on saturday ?

touche, mr bullsbok.

[formerly known as Sam]

I am actually rather impressed with Meyer's selections. The English may see this pack as vulnerable and inexperienced, but I think it is a rather exciting pack. full of mobility and physicality

Biltong Bek being positive on a Meyer team selection didn't think I'd see that.

It's a largely experimental pack that should pack a punch in the loose and an effecient backline that should offer a decent attacking threat. Jean de Villiers is a clever move at 13, he's big, strong and won't miss his tackles so will be given the job of nullifying England's major midfield weapon, Manu Tuilagi. JDV also has the brains to pick good lines off of 10 and 12 which will test Manu's defensive positioning. England will need to get Manu some quick ball and give him the opportunity to attack JDV on the outside arc if they want to attack wide, which is something they failed to do during the 6N.

[Biltong]

yeah, I am surprised too.

[fa0019]

Not so sure about JDV at 13... one thing which I think is key for a 13 which he now lacks is pace.

In Defence I think he may be exposed to a pacey Tuilagi or Ashton running through those lines.

Kirchner at 15... hmm, well he's probably the 5th best fullback in SA behind Pietersen, Taute, Viljoen and amazed that Lambie is on the bench.

Maisiekind on the bench .... I think Earl Rose should feel hard done by seeing him on the bench.

The pack is quite bold with choices of Etzebeth and Coetzee and whilst they play together for the sharks the front row should be a concern.

ENG fans should be happy with this side. No Du Preez, no Lambie... ENG should be able to compete with Frans & Morne in the territorial battle.

Its a mobile pack looking to compete in the loose but scrums should be interesting.

The SA lineout will be strong with Spies & Alberts offering strong alternatives. Etzebeth was taken apart on the weekend in the lineout... test rugby will be another step with class operators such as Parling opposing... although ENG will miss Croft.

Really pleased for Kruger though... had he not sat behind Victor at the bulls he probably would have been capped years back. He never gave up, went to ENG to improve his game and could have stayed yet returned (much to the demise of his bank account probably!) and now he's a bok. Big respect.

[Geordie]

Im interested to see young Etzebeth playing...he's listed as 6'8 and 19.5 stone...would that be right...

Palmer and Botha have done ok ...Botha did well against the Baa baas (if that means anything really)...but where are our monsters in the engine room?

It'll be interesting to see the difference in the pack sizes...and weights...and if it actually makes much difference

[Biltong]

FA, I can't think of an alternative scrum at the moment, I would like to see Oosthuizen, Strauss and Kruger get experience over the next year to see if there can be a more established front row, however Oosthuizen has a number of problems with referees every second match, so that needs to be sorted.

At lock this might be our future combination as andries Bekker is more injured than available

We all know Marcell Coetzee is only there as Burger isn't avaiable, but even then I would move Burger to 8 in place of Spies.

I think England might underestimate this pack as it might seem lightweight, but the fact is Beast has improved his scrumming, Etzebeth and Kruger at lock aren't lightweight.

Our back row might be a little light in Spies who doesn't do the physical stuff well, but I hope with new coach Meyer this can be sorted.


Contrary to you I am happy to see Jean d Villiers at 13.

Lambie is the controversial decision, but in my view the only one for now.

[Bullsbok]

Not so sure about JDV at 13... one thing which I think is key for a 13 which he now lacks is pace.

In Defence I think he may be exposed to a pacey Tuilagi or Ashton running through those lines.

Kirchner at 15... hmm, well he's probably the 5th best fullback in SA behind Pietersen, Taute, Viljoen and amazed that Lambie is on the bench.

Maisiekind on the bench .... I think Earl Rose should feel hard done by seeing him on the bench.

The pack is quite bold with choices of Etzebeth and Coetzee and whilst they play together for the sharks the front row should be a concern.

ENG fans should be happy with this side. No Du Preez, no Lambie... ENG should be able to compete with Frans & Morne in the territorial battle.

Its a mobile pack looking to compete in the loose but scrums should be interesting.

The SA lineout will be strong with Spies & Alberts offering strong alternatives. Etzebeth was taken apart on the weekend in the lineout... test rugby will be another step with class operators such as Parling opposing... although ENG will miss Croft.

Really pleased for Kruger though... had he not sat behind Victor at the bulls he probably would have been capped years back. He never gave up, went to ENG to improve his game and could have stayed yet returned (much to the demise of his bank account probably!) and now he's a bok. Big respect.

Let me start by saying while JDV doesnt have his express pace anymore he;s not a defensive problem. infact switching him to 13 is a bit clever ,Remember this guy has had everyone from Conrad Smith, Nonu ,Fruean to Ebersohn , Horne running down his channel and he has not buckled . He leads the stormers defensive line and he's very good at it . Besides If Tuilagi does go around him he'll have a fun time going through Kirchner who's dependable himself . I'm quite optimistic about this battle especially the centers . Barritt and Tuilagi vs Steyn and JDV . Will be fun to see Brad Barritt against the sole reason he's now an English player not a bok (Frans Steyn)

[Biltong]

Im interested to see young Etzebeth playing...he's listed as 6'8 and 19.5 stone...would that be right...

Palmer and Botha have done ok ...Botha did well against the Baa baas (if that means anything really)...but where are our monsters in the engine room?

It'll be interesting to see the difference in the pack sizes...and weights...and if it actually makes much difference

Geordie I read somewhere that this etzebeth is naturally a monster in strength, apparently they had to get extra weights as the ones on the gym wasn't heavy enough, I can't tell you which weights it was but needless to say he is very physical.

[Bullsbok]

FA, I can't think of an alternative scrum at the moment, I would like to see Oosthuizen, Strauss and Kruger get experience over the next year to see if there can be a more established front row, however Oosthuizen has a number of problems with referees every second match, so that needs to be sorted.

At lock this might be our future combination as andries Bekker is more injured than available

We all know Marcell Coetzee is only there as Burger isn't avaiable, but even then I would move Burger to 8 in place of Spies.

I think England might underestimate this pack as it might seem lightweight, but the fact is Beast has improved his scrumming, Etzebeth and Kruger at lock aren't lightweight.

Our back row might be a little light in Spies who doesn't do the physical stuff well, but I hope with new coach Meyer this can be sorted.


Contrary to you I am happy to see Jean d Villiers at 13.

Lambie is the controversial decision, but in my view the only one for now.

I strongly agree, everytime i look at the Bok pack im always thinking we've got 7 good players and Spies . It makes you appreciate Schalk Burger more when you consider he put supermanlike perfomances despite playing with Spies and Brussow . At least Brussow tackles and steals otherwise its Schalk doing the carrying, Schalk doing the bulk of the tackling and Schalk Burger clearing out at every ruck .

[Biltong]

Yep, Burger is definitely a loss for us in this series.

[majesticimperialman]

I am realy looking forward to this game, SA with a lot of experience(CAPS)

Compared to England not so many Caps. It will be interesting see how this game unfolds, will it be a scrum diminated game or will it be a kick fest?

I think this is Englands best chance to get a test win against SA, what with SA not having has much time to prepare for this game.

I am of cause hoping for an England win.

[fa0019]

Bullsbok

Not saying JDV is a poor tackler, far from it. The man is a real servant for SA and in the tight he can tackle as good as any 12... but with a little more space he may (note may) be exposed in the 13 channel... which is the most difficult in the backline to defend. Mallett said the same thing.

I think you're being a bit mean on Barritt. Yes he left and yes he was prevented from instant bok success by Frans but he would have been a bok had he stayed.
He is far far better than Maisiekind... always was. Think how many caps that guy has. I recall when SA toured Europe in 09 and Barritt tore him apart in the Saracens game... was a statement to PDV if ever it was.

Kind of limited in ENG and he hasn't developed as he may have done if he stayed.

[Geordie]

but with a little more space he may (note may) be exposed in the 13 channel...

I wouldnt be worried about us getting any space if Farrell is at 10.

[fa0019]

Once this era has gone I am sure Schalk will go down as the cornerstone of the boks entire success in recent years.

I would ask both you guys however (BB & Bullsbok)... is Bismaarck better than Strauss by 9 points per game?? He gives away so many penalties regardless of his dog of war all action play that he gifts the opposition points in every game.. the highest in SR consistently. Strauss IMO should feel very unlucky.

Personally I see ENG very limited outside of the set play... if you can get a nudge on them there, pressurise their lineout they become pretty average which is why I feel SA should have changed the props a little.

Neither are bad, Beast has done ok since coming back from injury, looks stronger but Cole is becoming quite the operator... it will be a test to his progess thats for sure. Jannie, well Corbisiero isn't Andy Sheridan so I think he's a little lucky.. a better loosehead would really expose him.

They're not weak and playing together week in week out will help them with the limited time they had... perhaps the reason for playing that combo.

[Geordie]

I think we'll miss Croft in the lineout massively FA0019

Jannie, well Corbisiero isn't Andy Sheridan so I think he's a little lucky.. a better loosehead would really expose him

If Corbs doesnt prove his fitness it'll be Marler starting...and you might see the first game of a special player....

[Biltong]

FA, sorry mate, but bismarck only conceded 17 penalties in 13 matches durning the super XV this year, in his first 5 matches he conceded most of those and have simmered down.

He is definitely not a 9 point a match liability. Strauss may be a better runner in open space, but on defence he has a tendency to miss more tackles than Bismarck, bismarck is more physical in the tight stuff, in fact he revels in it and he also effects more tirnovers thn Strauss.

[Bullsbok]

Once this era has gone I am sure Schalk will go down as the cornerstone of the boks entire success in recent years.

I would ask both you guys however (BB & Bullsbok)... is Bismaarck better than Strauss by 9 points per game?? He gives away so many penalties regardless of his dog of war all action play that he gifts the opposition points in every game.. the highest in SR consistently. Strauss IMO should feel very unlucky.

P

Adriaan Strauss while a good hooker , is very fond of playing in the wings . Thats why he gets mentioned constantly ,everyone sees him doing those big runs scoring tries etc Bissy on the other hand is on the ground making turnovers terrorising people , providing the grunt that the pack needs. He's highly effective at bumping off the first defender and even the stormers couldnt contain him two weeks ago. So yes bismarck will give away 9 points over 80min but he probably prevents 2 tries with his turnovers and his go forward generates momentum for Springbok tries .

[Bullsbok]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD_sdufA8xQ

This video shows my point .

[Artful_Dodger]

How good has Hougaard been this season, must have been pretty sensational to keep Pienaar out of the team - best scrum half in Europe this season and is knocking anything within 55m over the posts as well.

[fa0019]

Bismarck is the better player no doubt and near all would put him in a the world's best hooker... but he's going to start losing big matches in test rugby if he doesn't start to become more disciplined.

These tests will be a few notches up from SR thats for sure... the pack battle will be immense. Kicks at goal will probably be the difference between the sides. Any infringements will be very costly.

[Taylorman]

From what Ive seen of both Hougaard is the better player although havnt seen europe form, not that that rates highly. He was always average 3N time.

Hougaard is a better sniper and gets around and players frequently.

I think its a good backline. Kirchner has played well all year by getting stuck into everything I thought and so has JDV for his limited abilities.

All depends on the new pack really as its key to the gameplan. I think the backs will more than hold their own if the pack holds up. Tuilagi wont have his own way I wouldnt think either.

[Bullsbok]

Bismarck is the better player no doubt and near all would put him in a the world's best hooker... but he's going to start losing big matches in test rugby if he doesn't start to become more disciplined.

These tests will be a few notches up from SR thats for sure... the pack battle will be immense. Kicks at goal will probably be the difference between the sides. Any infringements will be very costly.

All the more reason to have your hooker in the thick of the action not in the wings

[Bullsbok]

Think a simliar argument could be made for De Malmanche and Mealamu for the All blacks , Taylor any views ?

[Taylorman]

Malamus still coming back from injury and needs to find form, he'll figure later. To be honest havnt seen much of De Malmanche at all this season...is he playing even?

[Bullsbok]

Malamus still coming back from injury and needs to find form, he'll figure later. To be honest havnt seen much of De Malmanche at all this season...is he playing even?

Meant back in his Chiefs days im sure he's overseas now

[Geordie]

One thing ive been impressed with Englands pack however...has been the unity. They have worked as a unit...and proved a difficult obstacle...and have improved through the games.

I really enjoyed seeing the rolling mauls being used by them v the Baa baas...

SA should not underestimate England either....despite our lack of experience compared to the Boks...

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