6 NATIONS 2018 - England v Wales build up/Match/Autopsy Thread - 12-6

[TightHEAD]

First topic message reminder :

England v Wales (The Big One) ITV 16:45pm


So much rests on this game. Wales look strong, England did enough in Rome to look comfortable.

Really hard to see how this wil play out.

Discuss.

Ref - Jérôme Garcès (France)

Head to head - Played - 130 Eng 61 - Wales 57 - Drawn 12




England Team

15 Mike Brown (Harlequins 65 caps) 14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby 29 caps) 13 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby 36 caps) 12 Owen Farrell (Saracens 54 caps) 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers 30 caps)
10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers 41 caps) 9 Danny Care (Harlequins 77 caps)

1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens 45 caps) 2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints 90 caps) 3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers 78 caps)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps 48 caps) 5 Maro Itoje (Saracens 15 caps) 6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints 62 caps) 7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins 60 caps) 8 Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs 4 caps)

Replacements
16 Jamie George (Saracens 21 caps) 17 Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs 1 cap) 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs 6 caps) 19 George Kruis (Saracens 22 caps)  20 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby 4 caps) 21 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens 27 caps) 22 Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors 9 caps) 23 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs 24 caps)




Wales team
Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets); Josh Adams (Worcester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Steff Evans (Scarlets); Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys capt), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton).


NO TRY - https://mobile.twitter.com/mattyjwills/status/962615635321737217/video/1

[lostinwales]

I so hate the 'world class' tag, and it really does seem to be an obsession in some quarters across the border.

World class comment, lost!

World class tags are only wrong when it comes to players....

[lostinwales]

I assume the world class was aimed at me. Not so fussed about it if you can define it. In this case for an attribute it's that I see very little weakness in technique or attitude. He seems consistently to be one of the hardest tacklers who looks for work.

No its not - and it is not a dig at these threads anyway, as the worst offenders are not active or not using it. But any media to do with Wales seems to have to include a line about a player being 'world class'.

You do realize which side I support don't you? Maybe I need to change my tag to 'happymancunian'

[ChequeredJersey]

Josh Adams has played a bit at FB I think. A lot to ask him to step up to FB in a big game like this, but could put him there and North on the wing and keep Patchell at 10.

The thought of Anscombe playing 10, and for the whole game, fills me with dread. Him at FB is perhaps even worse. Think I’d prefer Owen Williams at 10 to him, and he’s a bit more of an unknown at this level.

In this match, in this weather, at Twickenham, against this back 3 and 9-10-12, I can think of little that would make me feel better about the game than finding out that Adams was at FB and North at wing

[Luckless Pedestrian]

ESPN are saying he's ill rather than injured, so hopefully he will play.

[Guest]

I assume the world class was aimed at me. Not so fussed about it if you can define it. In this case for an attribute it's that I see very little weakness in technique or attitude. He seems consistently to be one of the hardest tacklers who looks for work.

No its not - and it is not a dig at these threads anyway, as the worst offenders are not active or not using it. But any media to do with Wales seems to have to include a line about a player being 'world class'.

You do realize which side I support don't you? Maybe I need to change my tag to 'happymancunian'

Never happens in relation to England though!


https://www.itv.com/six-nations/jones-highlights-englands-world-class-talent

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/rugby/how-jones-turned-england-flops-into-a-worldclass-team-a3492661.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/11/17/owen-farrell-englands-leader-go-to-man-genuinely-world-class/

https://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/ex-england-rugby-star-brings-14207886

[BamBam]

Phil Greening I agree with, the rest is preposterous

[No 7&1/2]

Yes lost know who you support! I just like to offer an answer. I accept wc is thrown around d willy nilly

[SecretFly]

ESPN are saying he's ill rather than injured, so hopefully he will play.

If he has what I've had for a week now, then he's not going to be there. The curse of the Aussies (Flu) strikes again for Wales?

[beshocked]

I wouldn't go as far as say Moriarty is world class at anything. He's a solid tackler sure but I think England can rock him and he's who I would target because Wales will be looking for go forward somewhere.

If you stop Wales or actually any team going forward, then it's more difficult to make progress.

Target, drive back and isolate.

Whether you think Moriarty is world class or not, he's not Faletau.

[Guest]

England tampering with the food again probably!

[yappysnap]

England tampering with the food again probably!

Ha! People always fall for the dodgy prawn sandwiches, they cant resist them. Just ask the ABs

[No 7&1/2]

He's not world class. I'm intrigued that you think his defence isn't up there though. Haven't seen it tested to the point of breaking so far hopefully tomorrow does! He was up there for motm last year based purely on stopping everything which came his way.

[No 7&1/2]

We do put in a nice spread. Not as good as biltong but it's up there

[Guest]

I’m confused now. Who’s calling who world class??? Just looks like you English arguing amongst yourselves!

[Guest]

Think I might have missed this one if discussed before, so apologies if so, but apparently Eddie Jones has reported Alun Wyn Jones to World Rugby for his behaviour in talking to the ref during the Wales v Scotland game. Wtf?!

[Guest]

There’s banter and there’s sledging and ‘needle’, and then there’s just being a frickin bell! Eddie I salute you!

[No 7&1/2]

Hats he beauty of rugby discussion forums. It's about discussion rather than just taking a side based on nationality. I know you're joking but it's a good point nonetheless.

[Guest]

There’s banter and there’s sledging and ‘needle’, and then there’s just being a frickin bell! Eddie I salute you!

But he's a world class frickin bell, right?

[Guest]

There’s banter and there’s sledging and ‘needle’, and then there’s just being a frickin bell! Eddie I salute you!

But he's a world class frickin bell, right?

On this occasion, yes the term ‘world class’ is apt!

[yappysnap]

What did AWJ do?

Either way I found his response funny when asked about EJ's comments.

[Guest]

What did AWJ do?

Either way I found his response funny when asked about EJ's comments.

He asked the ref to go to the TMO for Scotland’s consolation try.

[Geordie]

Morriarty was outstanding last year against England...then they subbed him!!!!

I hope he doesn't have another game like that!

[lostinwales]

Morriarty was outstanding last year against England...then they subbed him!!!!

I hope he doesn't have another game like that!

 I think he had run himself into the ground

[Guest]

Yep, think he was blowing to be honest.

Just to add, I know Moriarty has his limitations. And I doubt he’ll ever be ‘world class’. But I get the feeling he’s going to be one of those talismanic players for wales. Hard to describe really. But the sort of player that somehow brings something in addition, above and beyond his skill levels. Something we call ‘hwyl’ in Welsh.

[Geordie]

Yes but players don't have to be world class to be effective.
They perform a critical role for the team..

[Guest]

I know, I know. It was sort of tongue in cheek due to the comments about world class earlier!

There’s some players who just go out there and put in the big hits and 110% effort and it lifts the rest of the team. Just feel he’s that sort of player for us, or definitely could be. We’ve had a few over the years but probably need one at the moment so he could be the one.

[Geordie]

Yeah I agree.

Eddie had Haskell playing that role..to some effect. ANd I think he wants Underhill to take over that role.

[mikey_dragon]

You English are a funny bunch. We don't really care what Eddie thinks of Patch, it's you lot who keep going on about it. It might also be worth mentioning that Patch previously had to step up against NZ in NZ and did really well, albeit from full-back, so to question his bottle is madness. He is prone to the odd interception out wide though so I hope he remains at 10, Anscombe can't fill his shoes right now. It would been interesting to see Owen Williams run at 10.

As for the game I hear Gatland is predicting just a narrow win this time. I think it will be a narrow loss though, we'll miss the big guys like Faletau, JD2, Liam Williams and an in-form North.

[kingelderfield]

Yeah I agree.

Eddie had Haskell playing that role..to some effect. ANd I think he wants Underhill to take over that role.

Hi GF, the jury is still out for me regards Underhill. Firstly he does seem to brake quite a lot and secondly and perhaps more tellingly he appears quite monosyllabic in his style - and so in comparison with Haskell, while they're both quite individual performers, Haskell is the extrovert and Underhill the introverted opposite. That's how I see it any way.

Obviously I really do hope Underhill kicks on and develops his game. I'm just not convinced I've seen that in him. Time will tell.

[lostinwales]

You English are a funny bunch. We don't really care what Eddie thinks of Patch, it's you lot who keep going on about it. It might also be worth mentioning that Patch previously had to step up against NZ in NZ and did really well, albeit from full-back, so to question his bottle is madness. He is prone to the odd interception out wide though so I hope he remains at 10, Anscombe can't fill his shoes right now. It would been interesting to see Owen Williams run at 10.

As for the game I hear Gatland is predicting just a narrow win this time. I think it will be a narrow loss though, we'll miss the big guys like Faletau, JD2, Liam Williams and an in-form North.

We English are talking mainly about Eddie and what he does. What that leads to is media coverage of Patchell and AWJ, even if it all boils down to them saying what Eddie is talking about is rubbish.

Now Eddie has managed to shift media attention with a couple of sentences. He is a very good WUM.

[doctor_grey]

I am completely negative about England's chances today.  After watching Saints play dumb, lazy, don't give a damn Rugby yesterday, that game has completely contaminated my thinking.  Given that I truly don't think England have played great for quite a while, I am now concerned this is the game it catches up.  England were supposed to be the better team in the RWC and Wales found a way.  I know the differences between then and now are huge, and that England don't play lazy.  But this almost starts to look like a bad day at the office is coming.  

Best thing for me to do is not watch live and watch the replay when shown on tv later today.  Maybe I will go to work or to hospital and help in A&E (ER here in Jersey).  If I am really lucky there will be a huge accident and I can spend 4 or 5 hours rummaging around someone's bloodied up abdomen........

[No 7&1/2]

Lol. I was looking forward to the match. Now I'm just thinking what's the point!

[lostinwales]

Apparently halfpenny is out, but I have not seen a reference yet

[stub]

Wow Doc, you do sound very glum! Hopefully England will cheer you up when wash off all that gore!
I am expecting a very close match but am hopeful that England will bring their “A” game, which is what they will need if they are to beat the Welsh. If England do play to their fullest ability then I think that, with home advantage, a win by 10 points is not unreasonable to expect.
You’re right though, If England try to coast at any point the Welsh will be ready to put them to the sword.

[stub]

No Halfpenny would be good news for England. Hopefully nothing too serious, just enough to keep him out of this one!

[TightHEAD]

I agree, let's hope the game is postponed due to a drop of rain.

Wales are so strong at the moment even Georgia met their match and lost.

Seriously guys, yes Wales can win this game, I'm not a fool to think otherwise as they do have good players and let's face it Gatland knows a little bit about rugby. But I don't believe Eddie will allow England to believe they are better than them unless they put in a performance and prove it this afternoon.

For all the talk Eddie does he is a master at deflecting media attention away from the players.

[kingelderfield]

Lol. I was looking forward to the match. Now I'm just thinking what's the point!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9fa3HFR02E

WESTMORLAND. O that we now had here
But one ten thousand of those men in England
That do no work to-day!

KING. What's he that wishes so?
My cousin, Westmorland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmorland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say "To-morrow is Saint Crispian."
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say "These wounds I had on Crispin's day."
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words—
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester—
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

[kingelderfield]

Lol. I was looking forward to the match. Now I'm just thinking what's the point!

WESTMORLAND. O that we now had here
But one ten thousand of those men in England
That do no work to-day!

KING. What's he that wishes so?
My cousin, Westmorland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmorland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say "To-morrow is Saint Crispian."
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say "These wounds I had on Crispin's day."
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words—
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester—
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

[Guest]

Lol. I was looking forward to the match. Now I'm just thinking what's the point!

WESTMORLAND. O that we now had here
But one ten thousand of those men in England
That do no work to-day!

KING. What's he that wishes so?
My cousin, Westmorland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmorland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say "To-morrow is Saint Crispian."
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say "These wounds I had on Crispin's day."
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words—
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester—
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

You wot?!

[lostinwales]

Because of the way the scoring works these days I expect a reasonably close match up on the pitch but a decent margin on the scoreboard. I think England will hit a couple of purple patches (patchells?) and quickly rack up the points.

[lostinwales]

WOL would you believe

 Wales have been dealt an 11th hour blow after full-back and goalkicking ace Leigh Halfpenny was ruled out of today's big Six Nations showdown with England.

Halfpenny has a foot infection, which has swollen badly, and misses the Twickenham clash.

His place in the team is taken by Gareth Anscombe, with Owen Watkin coming onto the replacements' bench.

Patchell to take the kicks

[kingelderfield]

Lol. I was looking forward to the match. Now I'm just thinking what's the point!

Band of Brothers........etc.

You wot?!

So good its worth saying twice nay thrice!

Bugger the facts mind....we're not playing the French an if it were not for the Welsh archers...........

[lostinwales]

Lol. I was looking forward to the match. Now I'm just thinking what's the point!

Band of Brothers........etc.

You wot?!

So good its worth say twice nay thrice!

Bugger the facts mind....we're not playing the French an if it were not for the Welsh archers...........

The archers were not just Welsh, and in a nice touch in these eurosceptic times its worth pointing out that many of the bows were made  from the finest Italian yew....

[doctor_grey]

Wow Doc, you do sound very glum! Hopefully England will cheer you up when wash off all that  gore!
I am expecting a very close match but am hopeful that England will bring their “A” game, which is what they will need if they are to beat the Welsh.  If England do play to their fullest ability  then I think that, with home advantage, a win by 10 points is not unreasonable to expect.
You’re right though, If England try to coast at any point the Welsh will be ready to put them to the sword.

10 points would be great. But it would be great if 10 points AND England play a solid under control game.

[lostinwales]

Wow Doc, you do sound very glum! Hopefully England will cheer you up when wash off all that  gore!
I am expecting a very close match but am hopeful that England will bring their “A” game, which is what they will need if they are to beat the Welsh.  If England do play to their fullest ability  then I think that, with home advantage, a win by 10 points is not unreasonable to expect.
You’re right though, If England try to coast at any point the Welsh will be ready to put them to the sword.

10 points would be great.  But it would be great if 10 points AND England play a solid under control game.

But we wont. There will be times when we are holding on by the skin of our teeth. But we can score blink and you miss it tries from anywhere on the pitch, and the scores will mount up.

[stub]

I would love to see a controlled professional display from the English too - but not sure that we will in this particular match. English Welsh matches generally seem to fall into passionate derby-like territory where random things happen and are therefore tough to control. If we do manage this however I think that it will show an England team that are developing well under Jones’ guidance and that will give me great optimism for the future.

[Guest]

lostinwales, after hearing that the weather will be pretty rainy all day at Twickers I don’t want to hear any more from you about the rubbish weather in Wales!

[Geordie]

Yeah I agree.

Eddie had Haskell playing that role..to some effect. And I think he wants Underhill to take over that role.

Hi GF, the jury is still out for me regards Underhill. Firstly he does seem to brake quite a lot and secondly and perhaps more tellingly he appears quite monosyllabic in his style - and so in comparison with Haskell, while they're both quite individual performers, Haskell is the extrovert and Underhill the introverted opposite. That's how I see it any way.

Obviously I really do hope Underhill kicks on and develops his game. I'm just not convinced I've seen that in him. Time will tell.

Oh I agree mate. I think the jury is still out on Underhill for the majority of England fans. We can all see the potential and what he "could" bring to the team...but he has to really consistently fulfil that. I think Eddie would love that to happen, but time will tell.

I think that sums up a lot of Englands back row options at the moment...players with real potential, but we need a few to start nailing consistently high level of performances (without missing games) and show it at international level....

Clifford
Simmonds
Underhill
Mercer
Curry x 2
Plus a few others.

[lostinwales]

lostinwales, after hearing that the weather will be pretty rainy all day at Twickers I don’t want to hear any more from you about the rubbish weather in Wales!

But, but, I havn't said anything about the weather in the land of the long grey cloud for ages!!

[Guest]

lostinwales, after hearing that the weather will be pretty rainy all day at Twickers I don’t want to hear any more from you about the rubbish weather in Wales!

But, but, I havn't said anything about the weather in the land of the long grey cloud for ages!!

Im not surprised, given the poor weather ACROSS THE WHOLE UK lately!

Hope it doesn’t spoilt the game today. Would be nice to see a lot of running rugby.

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