6 NATIONS 2018 - England v Wales build up/Match/Autopsy Thread - 12-6

[TightHEAD]

First topic message reminder :

England v Wales (The Big One) ITV 16:45pm


So much rests on this game. Wales look strong, England did enough in Rome to look comfortable.

Really hard to see how this wil play out.

Discuss.

Ref - Jérôme Garcès (France)

Head to head - Played - 130 Eng 61 - Wales 57 - Drawn 12




England Team

15 Mike Brown (Harlequins 65 caps) 14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby 29 caps) 13 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby 36 caps) 12 Owen Farrell (Saracens 54 caps) 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers 30 caps)
10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers 41 caps) 9 Danny Care (Harlequins 77 caps)

1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens 45 caps) 2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints 90 caps) 3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers 78 caps)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps 48 caps) 5 Maro Itoje (Saracens 15 caps) 6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints 62 caps) 7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins 60 caps) 8 Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs 4 caps)

Replacements
16 Jamie George (Saracens 21 caps) 17 Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs 1 cap) 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs 6 caps) 19 George Kruis (Saracens 22 caps)  20 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby 4 caps) 21 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens 27 caps) 22 Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors 9 caps) 23 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs 24 caps)




Wales team
Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets); Josh Adams (Worcester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Steff Evans (Scarlets); Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys capt), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton).


NO TRY - https://mobile.twitter.com/mattyjwills/status/962615635321737217/video/1

[Sgt_Pooly]

Phew.....real arm wrestle!

Poor attacking display in the 2nd but defence was fantastic.

Farrell, Mako, Launchbury and Brown....very good.

[TightHEAD]

Thank you TMO and thank you sam Underhill

[Scottrf]

Brown was good but in a doing the basics way. Farrell was great in attack and defence.

[Guest]

I'm just so pleased that England won by more than 4 points or we'd never hear the end of the disallowed try controversy.

Thought Brown had a good game but amazed that the MotM didn't go to Farrell.

[SimonofSurrey]

Catchweight. Not really, the game would have had a completely different feel and shape from then on - and how likely was it the conversion would have been successful from way out where he grounded it, or maybe didn't according to the TMO.

[nathan]

Catchwieght, don't think you can complain. The amount of non decisions in favour of Wales were staggering.

Would love to see what procession England had

[TightHEAD]

Brown and Robshaws experience was the difference today

[eirebilly]

Brown was good but in a doing the basics way. Farrell was great in attack and defence.

That could have been the best game I have ever see Farrell play, he was absolutely outstanding.

[RiscaGame]

Farrell had to be MOTM. Wales made Brown look good. Farrell made himself look good.

Congrats England though. Despite the non try, we didn’t deserve anything from that. An LBP is a pretty good result all things considered.

[Scottrf]

AWJ is a class act btw.

[TightHEAD]

I thought Wales played the smarter rugby for 60mins of that game. England had a shocker today, Whilst Ford kicked well he kicked far too much. But hey result was good now it’s time to crack open more beer

[lostinwales]

Brown one mistake only all game. Robshaw was brilliant and absolutely everywhere, but Farrell was brilliant.

You have to give credit to Wales for their discipline but I can't help feeling they got the rub of the green with Garces. Seeing Nowell getting penalized for doing what Wales had (mostly) been getting away with all match was frustrating

Worrying from England's point of view that we could not manufacture more points. We looked very tired in the 2nd half too - but then so did Wales

Wales were much more lively than we have seen them for a couple of years but in my completely non objective view they were 2nd best.

[TightHEAD]

Brown one mistake only all game. Robshaw was brilliant and absolutely everywhere, but Farrell was brilliant.

You have to give credit to Wales for their discipline but I can't help feeling they got the rub of the green with Garces. Seeing Nowell getting penalized for doing what Wales had (mostly) been getting away with all match was frustrating

Yes. So frustrating

[Sgt_Pooly]

Gatland is such a bad loser.

[Scottrf]

Gatland is such a bad loser.

Dunno. Completely agree with him.

[TightHEAD]

Gats rules are rules lol

[lostinwales]

Last comment - we did really miss a carrier late on. Launchbury did great but then went off. Lawes was OK apart from the customary getting stripped once per match thing, but late on we missed having carriers in the pack.

I don't know what happened with Simmonds. Will be a great shame if he's crocked, although we may be getting Hughes back

[SimonofSurrey]

Jonny Wilkinson mouthing off about the value of drop goals in tight games. Honestly, how would he know?

[lostinwales]

Coverage is still Wales lost rather than England won

[Scottrf]

Coverage is still Wales lost rather than England won

Yeah it is funny. 23 wins in 24 and not a good performance yet.

[quinsforever]

Good win for england. That was a proper test match. Greasy ball and neither team kicking for touch? Awesome contest.

No point complaining about the non try. Because the who,e match would have been different after it. Can’t just add it plus conversion to the final score sndnsay Wales were robbed. Was a great test match, that I thought England won, rather than wales lost.

[Scottrf]

Good win for england. That was a proper test match. Greasy ball and neither team kicking for touch? Awesome contest.

No point complaining about the non try. Because the who,e match would have been different after it. Can’t just add it plus conversion to the final score sndnsay Wales were robbed. Was a great test match, that I thought England won, rather than wales lost.

Wales got a pen from the play. It's still a loss.

[lostinwales]

Good win for england. That was a proper test match. Greasy ball and neither team kicking for touch? Awesome contest.

No point complaining about the non try. Because the who,e match would have been different after it. Can’t just add it plus conversion to the final score sndnsay Wales were robbed. Was a great test match, that I thought England won, rather than wales lost.

Yes the aggressive defense really told, but it was the same on both sides. Credit to Navidi who was a right pain at the breakdown. Shingler had that great break and was solid throughout.

[majesticimperialman]

That was a fantastic game, a well fought hard game. just like you would expect from a Wales v England game.

England snatched the game in the dying minutes last year in Cardiff, and to be honest i thought Wales was going to snatch the game in the dying minutes to day.

But England held out and won the game....A well done to England for wining the game. But very hard luck for Wales.

I thought Patchel was having a good game, was he taken off because he picked up a knock or was it tactical?

[gavstar]

Anscombe at 10 until Biggar returns.....Patchell showed what he CAN'T do at this level......catch a high ball, organise behind the scrum , manage the game under pressure , make decisions that don't put others under pressure, use variety of tactical kicks , communicate with players,   goal kick ( although this is known as he 's not first choice for his home side) . He needs much more to his game at this level to keep the 10 shirt........last week Scotland were poor. He moved from Cardiff Blues because they didn't want him at 10, Scarlets play him at 15, which is where he should play.

[doctor_grey]

I am completely negative about England's chances today.  After watching Saints play dumb, lazy, don't give a damn Rugby yesterday, that game has completely contaminated my thinking.  Given that I truly don't think England have played great for quite a while, I am now concerned this is the game it catches up.  England were supposed to be the better team in the RWC and Wales found a way.  I know the differences between then and now are huge, and that England don't play lazy.  But this almost starts to look like a bad day at the office is coming.  

Best thing for me to do is not watch live and watch the replay when shown on tv later today.  Maybe I will go to work or to hospital and help in A&E (ER here in Jersey).  If I am really lucky there will be a huge accident and I can spend 4 or 5 hours rummaging around someone's bloodied up abdomen........

Glad I didn't watch live. Will watch the replay later. England start fast then don't score for 60 minutes?

Were they playing Rugby? or playing with this: https://popitpal.com/

[Exiledinborders]

Last comment - we did really miss a carrier late on. Launchbury did great but then went off. Lawes was OK apart from the customary getting stripped once per match thing, but late on we missed having carriers in the pack.

I don't know what happened with Simmonds. Will be a great shame if he's crocked, although we may be getting Hughes back

It will be good to have Hughes. We need a carrier. Assuming both are fit I expect Hughes to replace Simmonds. Robshaw is undroppable and we need a third line out jumper so I expect Simmonds to be on the bench.

[majesticimperialman]

Is Hughes fit? thought he was injured.

[mikey_dragon]

Good win for England, no complaints about that from me. My ire is at Wales and why they kept bloody knocking it on. England's defence was solid but I feel we could have broke it down if we didn't keep dropping the ball... That was a try for me too but no point in going on about what might have been, we just don't know. Has anyone mentioned Farrell? Not for his MOTM worthiness but I seen two clear strikes from him to Davies' head, one boot and then the knee - I know it's a tough game but I think that needs to be looked at.

As ever I'm overly impressed with Shingler and Navidi, and still can't believe the calls for Tips and Cubby to walk into this back-row, clueless people. All we need is Faletau back ASAP. Great to see North return too, but I feel he should have another game with Saints before coming back into the Wales team permanently. Liam Williams coming back also gives us those options that we really need right now. I see potential in this Wales team with the new additions and new style of play, but it's still reminiscent of the AI series with the knock-ons, etc.

[mikey_dragon]

Anscombe at 10 until Biggar returns.....Patchell showed what he CAN'T do at this level......catch a high ball, organise behind the scrum , manage the game under pressure , make decisions that don't put others under pressure, use variety of tactical kicks , communicate with players,   goal kick ( although this is known as he 's not first choice for his home side) . He needs much more to his game at this level to keep the 10 shirt........last week Scotland were poor. He moved from Cardiff Blues because they didn't want him at 10, Scarlets play him at 15, which is where he should play.

Blinkered Ospreys fan . The guy has a handful of caps and two starts at fly-half, just imagine what he could if given as many chances as Priestland... Fair play to England for putting pressure on the Welsh half-backs, and Watson and Brown were just better in the air. Scarlets halfbacks continue for me, Aled and Anscombe sends a shiver down my spine. Things will be great once Webb and Biggar come back in to compete.

[Cumbrian]

I must admit the ITV coverage irritated me, asking Gareth Thomas if he thought Wales were unlucky?! I mean really what was he going to say? You can go on about the ‘try’ but I believe England only got 2-3 penalties during the whole game! And none at all in the second half. When have you ever heard/ seen that in a game?!? Wales were constantly off their feet at the ruck. They constantly had hands on the deck. England won 2 tries  to nill and the controversy I can see is why we were not allowed to play for more!

[Exiledinborders]

Is Hughes fit? thought he was injured.

He is. But I think he was expected to be back for the next game.

[carpet baboon]

Coverage is still Wales lost rather than England won

Yeah it is funny. 23 wins in 24 and not a good performance yet.

Well you played well when Ireland beat you

[mid_gen]

Haven't you lost Webb to those daft new WRU rules? Or has someone seen sense....

[TightHEAD]

Eddie was right about AWJ, might as well give him the whistle

[SecretFly]

Oh well another game that looked good on paper...

Ah no, it was a grand, interesting game that had some buzz and then had the old knurly, tough stuff in the middle collision space. Two good sides cancelling out each other in a way by the end. England got their win so they won't care. Wales will be annoyed that they took too much time to gain confidence enough to be 'Wales' and actually start putting questions to England.

Just shows you, not every game has to be a try fest to have merit.........

[carpet baboon]

Oh well another game that looked good on paper...

Ah no, it was a grand, interesting game that had some buzz and then had the old knurly, tough stuff in the middle collision space.  Two good sides cancelling out each other in a way by the end.  England got their win so they won't care.  Wales will be annoyed that they took too much time to gain confidence enough to be 'Wales' and actually start putting questions to England.

Just shows you, not every game has to be a try fest to have merit.........

Not sure fly.
Think we should raise the very valid point that England only scored 2 trys at home, and should rightfully be concerned.

[mikey_dragon]

I must admit the ITV coverage irritated me, asking Gareth Thomas if he thought Wales were unlucky?! I mean really what was he going to say? You can go on about the ‘try’ but I believe England only got 2-3 penalties during the whole game! And none at all in the second half. When have you ever heard/ seen that in a game?!? Wales were constantly off their feet at the ruck. They constantly had hands on the deck. England won 2 tries  to nill and the controversy I can see is why we were not allowed to play for more!

Why do England fans tend to complain and bemoan the ref regardless of win or lose? The worst ref-whingers always happen to be English.

[Scottrf]

Or Gatland.

[gavstar]

not a blinkered osprey fan....when everyone was praising sam davies I said he was never good enough....when howley told biggar to go and re invent his game ( after a dismal game v Ireland ) I agreed.....now I d like to highlight the gulf between POSSIBLE potential in patchel to a player we have in biggar who could have won us the game today .....at times we were crying out to be bossed by biggar.....what a difference when anscombe with some idea of running our play took over at 10..

[lostinwales]

Oh well another game that looked good on paper...

Ah no, it was a grand, interesting game that had some buzz and then had the old knurly, tough stuff in the middle collision space.  Two good sides cancelling out each other in a way by the end.  England got their win so they won't care.  Wales will be annoyed that they took too much time to gain confidence enough to be 'Wales' and actually start putting questions to England.

Just shows you, not every game has to be a try fest to have merit.........

I think that England were very keen to make sure that Wales seldom had a chance to start putting questions. The English defense was very fast and up on the Welsh, causing them a lot of problems. Things only really changed when the English intensity dropped off in the 2nd half.

The fact that it did with the game so close is a worry

[Cumbrian]

I must admit the ITV coverage irritated me, asking Gareth Thomas if he thought Wales were unlucky?! I mean really what was he going to say? You can go on about the ‘try’ but I believe England only got 2-3 penalties during the whole game! And none at all in the second half. When have you ever heard/ seen that in a game?!? Wales were constantly off their feet at the ruck. They constantly had hands on the deck. England won 2 tries  to nill and the controversy I can see is why we were not allowed to play for more!

Why do England fans tend to complain and bemoan the ref regardless of win or lose? The worst ref-whingers always happen to be English.

Yes Welsh fans never moan about referees do they? They simply accept every decision going. Do they Poopie.

I watched a game of rugby where England were only given two penalties in the space of 80 minutes and none at all in the second and yet all I hear is how hard done by the opposition were. That doesn't strike you as odd?

[mikey_dragon]

I must admit the ITV coverage irritated me, asking Gareth Thomas if he thought Wales were unlucky?! I mean really what was he going to say? You can go on about the ‘try’ but I believe England only got 2-3 penalties during the whole game! And none at all in the second half. When have you ever heard/ seen that in a game?!? Wales were constantly off their feet at the ruck. They constantly had hands on the deck. England won 2 tries  to nill and the controversy I can see is why we were not allowed to play for more!

Why do England fans tend to complain and bemoan the ref regardless of win or lose? The worst ref-whingers always happen to be English.

Yes Welsh fans never moan about referees do they?  They simply accept every decision going. Do they Poopie.

I watched a game of rugby where England were only given two penalties in the space of 80 minutes and none at all in the second and yet all I hear is how hard done by the opposition were.  That doesn't strike you as odd?  

Lol, some English guy complained about my comments about an English ref-complaint, how pathetic.

Oh we all do it, just not as much as the English and Scots on here, and they seem to do it a lot when playing Wales. Also you don't see many of us here complaining about our legit try being disallowed right?

Not sure who's saying the opposition is hard done by? That's something else you English have been doing lately. Making stuff up so you can argue with the Welsh, looks like you're getting your worst fans tag back .

[TightHEAD]

The Ref had an awful game and wasn’t helped at all by the touch judges, Wales were offside time and time again, and Jack Nowell being pinged for going of his feet when he cleared out and got up straight away yet Wales didn’t get done once despite doing it all game!!!!!

There was also one occasion that Robshaw was about 10m offside yet everyone missed it

[mikey_dragon]

This ref is giving Wales a leg up in this game

Are ya'll not embarrassed by this guy? I see him on every match thread complaining about the ref giving everything to the opposition.

[Cumbrian]

I must admit the ITV coverage irritated me, asking Gareth Thomas if he thought Wales were unlucky?! I mean really what was he going to say? You can go on about the ‘try’ but I believe England only got 2-3 penalties during the whole game! And none at all in the second half. When have you ever heard/ seen that in a game?!? Wales were constantly off their feet at the ruck. They constantly had hands on the deck. England won 2 tries  to nill and the controversy I can see is why we were not allowed to play for more!

Why do England fans tend to complain and bemoan the ref regardless of win or lose? The worst ref-whingers always happen to be English.

Yes Welsh fans never moan about referees do they?  They simply accept every decision going. Do they Poopie.

I watched a game of rugby where England were only given two penalties in the space of 80 minutes and none at all in the second and yet all I hear is how hard done by the opposition were.  That doesn't strike you as odd?  

Lol, some English guy complained about my comments about an English ref-complaint, how pathetic.

Oh we all do it, just not as much as the English and Scots on here, and they seem to do it a lot when playing Wales. Also you don't see many of us here complaining about our legit try being disallowed right?

Not sure who's saying the opposition is hard done by? That's something else you English have been doing lately. Making stuff up so you can argue with the Welsh, looks like you're getting your worst fans tag back .

Oh it is everybody but you guys eh? Did you actually read my post? I believe I was talking about the ITV coverage, not 'on here', but you know, read what you like. You lost despite the ref giving you every chance to win, deal with it.

[SecretFly]

The Ref had an awful game and wasn’t helped at all by the touch judges, Wales were offside time and time again, and Jack Nowell being pinged for going of his feet when he cleared out and got up straight away yet Wales didn’t get done once despite doing it all game!!!!!  

There was also one occasion that Robshaw was about 10m offside yet everyone missed it

But not you, Tight. Why didn't you do your duty and phone in to the TMO?

[TightHEAD]

So are we all in agreement that had 1/2p played Wales would have only lost by 3points????

[TightHEAD]

This ref is giving Wales a leg up in this game

Are ya'll not embarrassed by this guy? I see him on every match thread complaining about the ref giving everything to the opposition.

He has a point!


The Ref was very one eyed, yet he always is

[TightHEAD]

The Ref had an awful game and wasn’t helped at all by the touch judges, Wales were offside time and time again, and Jack Nowell being pinged for going of his feet when he cleared out and got up straight away yet Wales didn’t get done once despite doing it all game!!!!!  

There was also one occasion that Robshaw was about 10m offside yet everyone missed it

But not you, Tight.  Why didn't you do your duty and phone in to the TMO?

I did but he couldn’t find the phone as he had lost his glasses!!!

[Sponsored content]