6 NATIONS 2018 - England v Wales build up/Match/Autopsy Thread - 12-6

[TightHEAD]

First topic message reminder :

England v Wales (The Big One) ITV 16:45pm


So much rests on this game. Wales look strong, England did enough in Rome to look comfortable.

Really hard to see how this wil play out.

Discuss.

Ref - Jérôme Garcès (France)

Head to head - Played - 130 Eng 61 - Wales 57 - Drawn 12




England Team

15 Mike Brown (Harlequins 65 caps) 14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby 29 caps) 13 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby 36 caps) 12 Owen Farrell (Saracens 54 caps) 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers 30 caps)
10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers 41 caps) 9 Danny Care (Harlequins 77 caps)

1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens 45 caps) 2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints 90 caps) 3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers 78 caps)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps 48 caps) 5 Maro Itoje (Saracens 15 caps) 6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints 62 caps) 7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins 60 caps) 8 Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs 4 caps)

Replacements
16 Jamie George (Saracens 21 caps) 17 Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs 1 cap) 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs 6 caps) 19 George Kruis (Saracens 22 caps)  20 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby 4 caps) 21 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens 27 caps) 22 Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors 9 caps) 23 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs 24 caps)




Wales team
Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets); Josh Adams (Worcester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Steff Evans (Scarlets); Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys capt), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton).


NO TRY - https://mobile.twitter.com/mattyjwills/status/962615635321737217/video/1

[TightHEAD]

https://mobile.twitter.com/mattyjwills/status/962615635321737217/video/1

[No 7&1/2]

You just said it touched his hand then knee so you're saying it's not a knock on?

[Collapse2005]

Clearly the ball is knocked on by Steff Evans finger and knee anyway

TMO was bang on.

He should be congratulated on getting it right.

Why is he getting all the negative press?

If thats the case he got it completely wrong as he said the first part wasnt a knock on and then the second part wasnt a try.

[TightHEAD]

Knee - finger - ground.

[No 7&1/2]

Ah. Good job you jump around in your arguments tight. Sign of a good wum.

[TightHEAD]

My first impression was that it was a try and the TMO got it wrong. Like everyone else I though Wales were hard done by, but I'm not perfect I made a mistake.

Thankfully World Rugby picked a TMO who was on the ball and saw what really happened.

[doctor_grey]

As Wales might say; "If only the game went on for a hundred and one minutes, we might have won it".

But alas, that's only fantasy.  Games of course never last anything close to that length.

Well, they have gotten close: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PHBHDZ7wMs

[kingelderfield]

Win is a win.

However the reality is that while Jones's pragmatism might have short term benefits, it does incur longer term failings with its limited ambition.

Our poorly executed in-field kicking strategy might be justifiable given the poor conditions. However, we did the same against Italy in the sunshine and give away so much valuable possession that we lose the opportunity to attack and in so doing heap pressure on ourselves. Ford has done this for years and has always been rubbish at it. What on earth is Jones thinking?

Hopefully that will be our worst performance and with the return of injured and suspended players we may start to open our eyes and play whats in front of us.

As a Wasps fan this is the joy of watching them play and the frustration of this current national offering.

Basically the All Blacks would do us a good one on our current form and strategy.

[Scottrf]

Yesterday during the game after the TMO decision...

That was a try wales

Today...

Clearly the ball is knocked on by Steff Evans finger and knee anyway

TMO was bang on.

He should be congratulated on getting it right.

Why is he getting all the negative press?

You were fairly convinced this was a try after the TMO decision yesterday, even referring to the decision to not award the try as a joke.

So was I. I was wrong. No try is correct.

[lostinwales]

When it comes down to it Wales just weren't good enough. They hung on for 60 mins and put in a couple of kicks in the hope of scoring. They need to do much more to win against the big sides in world rugby.

...and so do England...............

Only we have actually beaten every team except the one we haven't played yet...

[lostinwales]

Win is a win.

However the reality is that while Jones's pragmatism might have short term benefits, it does incur longer term failings with its limited ambition.

Our poorly executed in-field kicking strategy might be justifiable given the poor conditions. However, we did the same against Italy in the sunshine and give away so much valuable possession that we lose the opportunity to attack and in so doing heap pressure on ourselves. Ford has done this for years and has always been rubbish at it. What on earth is Jones thinking?

Hopefully that will be our worst performance and with the return of injured and suspended players we may start to open our eyes and play whats in front of us.

As a Wasps fan this is the joy of watching them play and the frustration of this current national offering.

Basically the All Blacks would do us a good one on our current form and strategy.

a) we are due the odd good performance
b) the AB's have problems of their own
c) the kind of pressing defense we were using on Wales will cause problems for any team.

Look its not ever going to be straightforward, but 25/26 is a better record than any other team out there at the moment, AB's included

[No 7&1/2]

There's very few weak kinks in this england team. Now obviously the best since the early 00s team. A fair few would now be included in a joint team as well.

[Gwlad]

On review I think the TMO was correct.

"If there is doubt about which team first grounded the ball in the in-goal, play is re-started by a 5-metre scrum, in line with the place where the ball was grounded."

It was a simultaneous grounding, so looks like the correct decision.

try watching with your eyes open

What a surprise

A welsh moral victory proponent thinks an official cost Wales a game. Poor loser mentality. Gatland had a good old sook about it to, lol.

I can see you've a lot in common, another Kiwi with his eyes closed

[Guest]

Dylan Hartley could be in trouble. Spitting on a Welsh player:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=lXqVTbY4EfQ

Why does it bring this sort of thing on himself?!

[SecretFly]

When it comes down to it Wales just weren't good enough. They hung on for 60 mins and put in a couple of kicks in the hope of scoring. They need to do much more to win against the big sides in world rugby.

...and so do England...............

Only we have actually beaten every team except the one we haven't played yet...

Back to the issue, the game in question.... England will have to do more than yesterday to win against the big sides in the world. I saw quite an even game over the 80.

[No 7&1/2]

Hmm that Hartley thing looks a lot like an angle which makes it look bad. Who was it in the last few years who was throwing sand in someone's eyes before a 2nd view prove it was nothing?

[lostinwales]

Hmm that Hartley thing looks a lot like an angle which makes it look bad. Who was it in the last few years who was throwing sand in someone's eyes before a 2nd view prove it was nothing?

I think if you wanted to disect the 'scuffle' in detail there would be a number of people who you could ask questions of, in red aswell as white.

[No 7&1/2]

Yeah the scuffle. Just watched it again and no the spit is no where near the Welsh player. Someone just being an idiot on YouTube surprisingly.

[Guest]

Hmm that Hartley thing looks a lot like an angle which makes it look bad. Who was it in the last few years who was throwing sand in someone's eyes before a 2nd view prove it was nothing?

I think if you wanted to disect the 'scuffle' in detail there would be a number of people who you could ask questions of, in red aswell as white.

Pushing and shoving vs spitting (IF that's what he's done) - they're not on the same level.

[No 7&1/2]

Yeah like I've just said it didn't happen.

[Gwlad]

Hartley and Jones go well together, both completely without any class. I expect he'll be cited and banned, again. If not we'll know that rather like the TMO decision, there are darker forces in play to ensure England get what they want.

[No 7&1/2]

Like I said above. He didn't. 6 nations brings out the best in some posters eh.

[No 7&1/2]

Actually take that back you're always a poor poster through the year gwlad.

[Scottrf]

Obviously didn't spit on him. He was lying past the player.

[nathan]

Haven't read back through the thread but just wanted to post this that proves the Wales try shouldn't have stood. I'm sure it will come up in future arguments.

https://twitter.com/SJF_32/status/962644189170323456

[RuggerRadge2611]

Me watching the England vs Wales thread descend into madness...

[Gwlad]

Obviously did spit on him. He is a dirty player.

[nathan]

Same time every year radge

[SecretFly]

Haven't read back through the thread but just wanted to post this that proves the Wales try shouldn't have stood. I'm sure it will come up in future arguments.

https://twitter.com/SJF_32/status/962644189170323456

Seems like an important slice of video detail there.... but just have to ask are you/we all certain that's authentic original footage and not doctored? I'm not claiming it is doctored but I don't think anyone caught the finger wobble when we saw the knee evidence in TMO playback and HD quality during the game itself.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Same time every year radge

I do feel for the normal fans, because sadly there is a hardcore element in both poster camps who basically enter a superconducting loop of WUMmery. In the words of Don Trump. Sad.

[mid_gen]

Do the mods think that temporary bans are effective, that he's miraculously going to turn into a valuable contributor to the site instead of WUMing in every England thread?

Definition of insanity and all that....

[lostinwales]

Me watching the England vs Wales thread descend into madness...

It is just madness as you say. There was a rugby match between England and Wales yesterday, and there is more than a couple of things to write about, well at least I think so.

[Barney McGrew did it]

Good win for England, although not great quality from either side, I thought England got their trys then mostly controlled the game – couldn’t see them losing tbh. I still think England will win their home games, but may struggle to win both their away ones.
Couple of issues for me: Lawes really must stop getting stripped – it’s getting embarrassing. I’m sure opponents target this weakness now. And Wigglesworth was brought in in part for his good passing game, but showed little of it on Saturday, just look at the last pass of the game as an example. He also seemed a bit sluggish to the tackle.

[RuggerRadge2611]

For me Wales need to look at how easily May bagged his tries as opposed to a bad refereeing decision. Using a Scottish example the RWC debacle with Joubert still stings, but the decision he made is irrelevant in isolation. We made at least 4 or 5 critical errors that made us lose the test match without Joubert making a mistake. Wales will be the same, 2 sloppy defensive lapses meant England got on top and never really let Wales back up.

[Guest]

Me watching the England vs Wales thread descend into madness...

It is just madness as you say. There was a rugby match between England and Wales yesterday, and there is more than a couple of things to write about, well at least I think so.

The bad thing is that the moderation is very one sided. Gwlad gets bans but nothing happens to TightHEAD or Cyril. Why???

[Guest]

Me watching the England vs Wales thread descend into madness...

I actually think this thread has been pretty good. There’s been a lot of fun banter over the week. Mikey got hot under the collar last night (as always) but it’s been good overall. Not sure how/where it’s descended into madness??? No fans saying they were going to smash the other team. No poor winners or losers as far as I can see. The Wales v Scotland thread was much worse. The Scottish mods were not really interested in warning Scottish wums!

[No 7&1/2]

And you're willing to correct your call about hartley any second?

[Guest]

For me Wales need to look at how easily May bagged his tries as opposed to a bad refereeing decision. Using a Scottish example the RWC debacle with Joubert still stings, but the decision he made is irrelevant in isolation. We made at least 4 or 5 critical errors that made us lose the test match without Joubert making a mistake. Wales will be the same, 2 sloppy defensive lapses meant England got on top and never really let Wales back up.

I’m sure they will, Radge. I think you’re confusing the media and the Wales camp. The media will focus on the talking points. Always do. Gatland and team will not be doing video analysis of the non-try. They’ll be doing analysis of the defensive lapses. Do you really think differently?!

[Guest]

And you're willing to correct your call about hartley any second?

Eh?! My call??? I didn’t make a call. I haven’t seen anything other than that video which looks like he’s spitting on a Welsh player. Happy to be wrong. Just need to see the evidence.

[lostinwales]

Me watching the England vs Wales thread descend into madness...

I actually think this thread has been pretty good. There’s been a lot of fun banter over the week. Mikey got hot under the collar last night (as always) but it’s been good overall. Not sure how/where it’s descended into madness??? No fans saying they were going to smash the other team. No poor winners or losers as far as I can see. The Wales v Scotland thread was much worse. The Scottish mods were not really interested in warning Scottish wums!

Mikey does- but I usually respect him because he does think for himself and if asked a straight question will give a straight answer. He actually wants to talk about the rugby most of the time.

As for the main 'English' culprits - Cyril is usually silly and it is important not to take tighthead too seriously although I can see that occasionally he gets annoying. Gwlad is relentlessly negative and insulting - and that is what makes a difference.

[No 7&1/2]

Yet you've been told youre wrong by 3 people can easily access footage and seem to be fine ti be not acknowledging that. If you're now saying that it was just a wum youtube video fair enough.

[Guest]

Yet you've been told youre wrong by 3 people can easily access footage and seem to be fine ti be not acknowledging that. If you're now saying that it was just a wum youtube video fair enough.

What?! It’s footage from the game! I didn’t film it! No one has shown me anything else! I only posted it because it looked bad and thought it warranted discussion. Do you think I filmed it or something?! It was bbc footage!

[nathan]

Fly, I'm just watching it back on the itv player and I can confirm it hasn't been altered and you can see his finger move

[Guest]

Me watching the England vs Wales thread descend into madness...

I actually think this thread has been pretty good. There’s been a lot of fun banter over the week. Mikey got hot under the collar last night (as always) but it’s been good overall. Not sure how/where it’s descended into madness??? No fans saying they were going to smash the other team. No poor winners or losers as far as I can see. The Wales v Scotland thread was much worse. The Scottish mods were not really interested in warning Scottish wums!

Mikey does- but I usually respect him because he does think for himself and if asked a straight question will give a straight answer. He actually wants to talk about the rugby most of the time.

As for the main 'English' culprits - Cyril is usually silly and it is important not to take tighthead too seriously although I can see that occasionally he gets annoying. Gwlad is relentlessly negative and insulting - and that is what makes a difference.

But where is the ‘descend into madness’ bit? I’ve read it back (the game bit) and have been posting on it during the week. Haven’t seen any bad wumming or trolling. There’s more on the Scotland V France thread from Cyril than in this whole thread!

[Scottrf]

He lifts himself up by placing his hands on the floor, then spits directly in front of himself. Unless you think he was pushing himself up on the player?

[SecretFly]

Fly, I'm just watching it back on the itv player and I can confirm it hasn't been altered and you can see his finger move

Well then Nathan, that's a confirmation that it was a knock on for me....

Anyway, the moment is gone. Lots of time for other big controversies to arise out of games to come. It doesn't ever rest, the 6N.

[nathan]

Onwards sir!

[lostinwales]

Me watching the England vs Wales thread descend into madness...

I actually think this thread has been pretty good. There’s been a lot of fun banter over the week. Mikey got hot under the collar last night (as always) but it’s been good overall. Not sure how/where it’s descended into madness??? No fans saying they were going to smash the other team. No poor winners or losers as far as I can see. The Wales v Scotland thread was much worse. The Scottish mods were not really interested in warning Scottish wums!

Mikey does- but I usually respect him because he does think for himself and if asked a straight question will give a straight answer. He actually wants to talk about the rugby most of the time.

As for the main 'English' culprits - Cyril is usually silly and it is important not to take tighthead too seriously although I can see that occasionally he gets annoying. Gwlad is relentlessly negative and insulting - and that is what makes a difference.

But where is the ‘descend into madness’ bit? I’ve read it back (the game bit) and have been posting on it during the week. Haven’t seen any bad wumming or trolling. There’s more on the Scotland V France thread from Cyril than in this whole thread!

It's been good all week, but has gone downhill since the game.

Mind you, if you want to see a thread really go to pieces just wait until the aftermath of England Ireland, particularly if we do win. The Irish are generally excellent posters except under certain circumstances...

[Guest]

Pretty sure every nation has their ‘circumstances’, lostinwales!

[No 7&1/2]

So...you want to acknowledge yet that the link you posted doesn't show him spitting on the player? You complain about wumming yet to post that and them not to walk it back when you realise that it's not what it appears to be is a little wummish in itself?

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