6 NATIONS 2018 - England v Wales build up/Match/Autopsy Thread - 12-6

[TightHEAD]

First topic message reminder :

England v Wales (The Big One) ITV 16:45pm


So much rests on this game. Wales look strong, England did enough in Rome to look comfortable.

Really hard to see how this wil play out.

Discuss.

Ref - Jérôme Garcès (France)

Head to head - Played - 130 Eng 61 - Wales 57 - Drawn 12




England Team

15 Mike Brown (Harlequins 65 caps) 14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby 29 caps) 13 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby 36 caps) 12 Owen Farrell (Saracens 54 caps) 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers 30 caps)
10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers 41 caps) 9 Danny Care (Harlequins 77 caps)

1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens 45 caps) 2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints 90 caps) 3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers 78 caps)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps 48 caps) 5 Maro Itoje (Saracens 15 caps) 6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints 62 caps) 7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins 60 caps) 8 Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs 4 caps)

Replacements
16 Jamie George (Saracens 21 caps) 17 Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs 1 cap) 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs 6 caps) 19 George Kruis (Saracens 22 caps)  20 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby 4 caps) 21 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens 27 caps) 22 Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors 9 caps) 23 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs 24 caps)




Wales team
Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets); Josh Adams (Worcester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Steff Evans (Scarlets); Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys capt), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton).


NO TRY - https://mobile.twitter.com/mattyjwills/status/962615635321737217/video/1

[munkian]

And Shingler kicking instead of passing after his break.

[cascough]

England were knackered. The absolute last thing we wanted was to up the tempo. Wigglesworth made a positive impact on the game I thought. He was exactly what we needed. Care was floundering.

Were they knackered (well any more so than their opponents? I have seen it put forward as fact on here but I have to say I struggle to agree with that. The speed that England's players were getting to their feet after each tackle and regaining their defensive position (26 tackles in last 3 minutes?) was in marked contrast to the Welsh attackers who at times were really labouring. For me both sides were tired, which you would expect, but England's fitness held up just as well as Wales.

I think you can make a case for saying we were no more tired than Wales, but I think my point still stands. At that stage we wouldn't have wanted the game to open up more as it may have become somewhat of a lottery. Tight game like that, both teams tiring...control is the order of the day.

[BamBam]

Completely forgot about Williams, that was just a quite brilliant tackle (did see someone on Twitter complaining that Underhill didn't attempt to wrap his left arm )

Shingler was a funny one .. I kept expecting him to get tackled but he just kept going, was good scramble defence but agree he should have passed

Still didn't feel massively threatening though

[BamBam]

Oh and just for mikey ... see, I sometimes lose my wifi password at weekends even when Wales have lost, its not unique to them winning

[Scottrf]

Williams was the easiest finish ever. As brilliant as the Underhill tackle was, no excuse.

[munkian]

Yupp, if you aren't going to pass then you don't slide that early !

[lostinwales]

Williams was the easiest finish ever. As brilliant as the Underhill tackle was, no excuse.

It was 4 on 1 but I believe Brown managed to shepherd them into a very narrow space near the touchline, Williams dived early, which seems sensible, but that tackle from Underhill was perfect.

[Scottrf]

Williams was the easiest finish ever. As brilliant as the Underhill tackle was, no excuse.

It was 4 on 1 but I believe Brown managed to shepherd them into a very narrow space near the touchline, Williams dived early, which seems sensible, but that tackle from Underhill was perfect.

It's not sensible. Why does he need to commit to diving? One man runs inside and if he's tackled he pops it up. I think that's a gimme at international level, as well as Underhill did.

[munkian]

Williams was the easiest finish ever. As brilliant as the Underhill tackle was, no excuse.

It was 4 on 1 but I believe Brown managed to shepherd them into a very narrow space near the touchline, Williams dived early, which seems sensible, but that tackle from Underhill was perfect.

Brown kind of just flailed at him as per, Underhill got to his feet and absolutely raced back to Williams.

[mikey_dragon]

I was amazed. I don't think Williams could have done much more given the limited space he was in, it just a helluva try-saver. As I said earlier we had more opportunities which went to waste via knock-ons or silly kicks. And I think we can all acknowledge by now that the Ford-Farrell axis is one of the best around.

[Poorfour]

Williams was the easiest finish ever. As brilliant as the Underhill tackle was, no excuse.

It was 4 on 1 but I believe Brown managed to shepherd them into a very narrow space near the touchline, Williams dived early, which seems sensible, but that tackle from Underhill was perfect.

Brown kind of just flailed at him as per, Underhill got to his feet and absolutely raced back to Williams.

Brown was defending a four on one, for Chrissakes, it would have been a massive embarrassment for Wales if he’d made a successful tackle into touch, and committing to one tackle would have given them a free run at the line. It’s almost impossible to defend an overlap against a good team by yourself - good defensive technique is not to commit and try to keep the attack in one channel until help arrives.

I think Scott is right: he did well to narrow the channel, which gave Underhill half a chance to make the tackle. Diving early was still a poor choice by Williams, though.

[Guest]

All Williams had to do was pop a pass over his shoulder and he had 2 players waiting (North first I think)! What a waste.

[Heaf]

I think perhaps a tad harsh on Williams - I reckon 99 times out of 100 that's scored.

[Guest]

I think perhaps a tad harsh on Williams - I reckon 99 times out of 100 that's scored.

I think he dived a bit early and the ground wasn’t has slippy as he thought! He was in danger of getting a friction burn. Might not have even made it to the line!

[No 7&1/2]

9 times put of 10 the slide works. That tackle was magnificent though.

[Guest]

9 times put of 10 the slide works. That tackle was magnificent though.

I agree, in nice wet conditions you can slide for miles. Which it seemed to be (nice and wet). Just remember when he slid thinking that he didn’t look like he was sliding much. Looked a bit awkward. Looked a bit like a dry slide, which are never good! Looked a bit painful actually! And then he was taken out of play with a superb cover tackle. Like I said, I think he thought that because it was wet he could slide from far. But maybe it was a bit dry.

[lostinwales]

9 times put of 10 the slide works. That tackle was magnificent though.

I agree, in nice wet conditions you can slide for miles. Which it seemed to be (nice and wet). Just remember when he slid thinking that he didn’t look like he was sliding much. Looked a bit awkward. Looked a bit like a dry slide, which are never good! Looked a bit painful actually! And then he was taken out of play with a superb cover tackle. Like I said, I think he thought that because it was wet he could slide from far. But maybe it was a bit dry.

To be fair Underhill also slid

[Guest]

9 times put of 10 the slide works. That tackle was magnificent though.

I agree, in nice wet conditions you can slide for miles. Which it seemed to be (nice and wet). Just remember when he slid thinking that he didn’t look like he was sliding much. Looked a bit awkward. Looked a bit like a dry slide, which are never good! Looked a bit painful actually! And then he was taken out of play with a superb cover tackle. Like I said, I think he thought that because it was wet he could slide from far. But maybe it was a bit dry.

To be fair Underhill also slid

Riiiiiight. Thanks!

[Guest]

9 times put of 10 the slide works. That tackle was magnificent though.

I agree, in nice wet conditions you can slide for miles. Which it seemed to be (nice and wet). Just remember when he slid thinking that he didn’t look like he was sliding much. Looked a bit awkward. Looked a bit like a dry slide, which are never good! Looked a bit painful actually! And then he was taken out of play with a superb cover tackle. Like I said, I think he thought that because it was wet he could slide from far. But maybe it was a bit dry.

To be fair Underhill also slid

Riiiiiight. Thanks!

Just watched it back again and actually it wasn’t such an awkward slide at all. My memory of it live and the next day were a much further out slide that didn’t really take off. But he would have made it. Underhill didn’t slide to get him but obviously slid when he hit the deck after the tackle. Outstanding cover tackle.

[TightHEAD]

The two other England players in shot had already given up, the welsh fans and players were celebrating in camera shot too.

Underhill is a beast.

[englandglory4ever]

Very pleased with that England performance missing several key players. Wales were outplayed for the majority of the match but did look good for about 5 minutes leading up to their second penalty kick for three points late on in the second half. The last 5 minutes England put their foot on the Wales throat and never let them out of their 22m. Job done. England will be even better in Scotland. Happy days.

[TightHEAD]

Are you really please?

I've got to be honest I don't think England have improved since we smashed the Aussies down under.

We're probably still good enough to win the 6 nations but we need to see signs of improvement, we should have put Wales away in the 2nd half, drop kick here or there would have put the game beyond Wales, yet we didn't even try to tick the score board over when it was clear the Ref was never going to penalized the Welsh.
Where was our captain highlighting the welsh infringements? MJ would have been in the Refs ear for the whole 2nd half.

[SecretFly]

Maybe Eddie's boys only done enough to do enough, so as to keep the powder dry and not let other visitors get too much of an idea what's going to hit them. But you're right, Tight. They'll have to hit with more than that before getting the title safely back in their hands.

[englandglory4ever]

As I said Tight, yes pleased in light of the changes enforced. eg, Wigglesworth at 34 was nowhere near the game changer that Care would be coming on after 60 mins. Wiggy looked a bit out of his depth to be honest. Mako was kept on too long. He was knackered 10 mins before he went. Those two aspects were a massive negative in terms of our normal tempo. Still, we have some players returning but overall with the depth yes, quite pleased.

[No 7&1/2]

Marler will solve the question mark on Hepburn which seems to have stopped vunipola coming off earlier. We're stuck with wigglesworth for the 6 nations. He didn't have much of a chance but I'm sure he'll be better than he was on saturday.

[doctor_grey]

I would expect Wiggly to be better after having two full weeks to work with the team. He is certainly not a game changer, but should be able to protect a lead competently at this level.

[cascough]

Seriously...this again!?

Wigglesworth was exactly what was needed. To the "lift the tempo" at that stage would have been suicide. We needed a calm head to close the game out.

[Collapse2005]

Do English people have the daftest surnames in world rugby?

No ones is going to be afraid of someone called Richard Wigglesworth. Sounds like a Mr Men character.

[No 7&1/2]

Again? I don't think him improving is that out of the question. Was it only me having kittens on that very last pass?

[No 7&1/2]

Are you scared of names collapse?

[SecretFly]

Are you scared of names collapse?

Only Mr Angry. He's scary.

But Mr Lovely is lovely.

[cascough]

I really wish we were playing France next and not Scotland. They've just binned off half their squad!

[Collapse2005]

Anyone else think its really funny how worked up Eddie Jones gets over the Press' relationship with Mike Brown?

[Guest]

Are you scared of names collapse?

Only Mr Angry.  He's scary.

But Mr Lovely is lovely.

I really wish Mr Anscombe was Mr Tickle instead. There'd be no question then!

[thomh]

Collapse2005

Presumably borne out of the fact that he knows really that criticism of Brown isn’t entirely without merit - even if it goes too far. I’m a Quins fan so pre-disposed towards him, but Jones is kidding himself if he thinks the Wales game was no different to how Brown has played in general for the last two years.

[doctor_grey]

Again? I don't think him improving is that out of the question. Was it only me having kittens on that very last pass?

A whole heard of cats.

And a few f-bombs too.

[Collapse2005]

I really wish we were playing France next and not Scotland. They've just binned off half their squad!

They brought in good players though. Also they drop their squad at some point every six nations.

[Collapse2005]

Collapse2005

Presumably borne out of the fact that he knows really that criticism of Brown isn’t entirely without merit - even if it goes too far. I’m a Quins fan so pre-disposed towards him, but Jones is kidding himself if he thinks the Wales game was no different to how Brown has played in general for the last two years.

Kearney, Halfpenny and Brown are probably the three most criticised players for Ireland, Wales and England. It seems to come with the position. Three very good players too.

[beshocked]

Nah, Brown has been below par for quite a while but put one of his best performances in an England shirt for quite a while.

I don't think he warranted man of the match but he had a good game.

Not sure whose been picking MOTM but have got it wrong twice in a row now - glad I haven't put money on MOTM award this year.

[TightHEAD]

Got to love Eddie.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05xrtzj

[munkian]

The Welsh backline should take full responsibility for Brown getting MOTM.

Laidlaw and Brown both getting MOTM in the same weekend, good Lord.

[No 7&1/2]

Should have been Launchbury.

[TightHEAD]

Should have been Launchbury.

Should have made the Lions tour too.

Take that Gats.

[Collapse2005]

Is Launchbury England's best player?

IMO Farrell is having a very good six nations so far, in the real sense this time and not the over rated sense as is customary for him.

[No 7&1/2]

Hard to say who is the best player in most teams given how varied each position is. I would only swap him for retallick personally.

[munkian]

Farrell is easily England's best player.

[Sgt_Pooly]

We don't have a "best player", it's such a lazy thing to say.

What we are doing though is getting more players who can potentially be regarded as world class, something we've not had in the last 10 years or so.

Mako, Launchbury, Itoje, Billy, Farrell....are right up there.

[mikey_dragon]

Should have been Launchbury.

Cory Hill outplayed him.

[lostinwales]

Should have been Launchbury.

Cory Hill outplayed him.

That is an interesting statement. I know what the stats say so lets put those aside. Got anything to back it up?

[BamBam]

He plays for Wales and Dragons, doesn't that say it all?

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