6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

RDW_Scotland wrote:I've cleared up a number of posts on the thread from this morning - there are a number of perpetrators so please pretty please can we keep it to the rugby.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I've cleared up a number of posts on the thread from this morning - there are a number of perpetrators so please pretty please can we keep it to the rugby.

LondonTiger wrote:This current England team rarely puts sides away with any degree of comfort. Thus I enter most weekends feeling we shoudl win, but fearing that the opposition will have something we fail to counter. Ultimately under EJ that was POM last year only, but too many games have been far too close.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Given its 6ns time and people get wound up and banned a little more easily can't we just take a deep breath read and understand people's points without twisting things and ignoring key points? Pretty good scotland team and I'm a touch worried about Watson should lawes and Hughes start. A touch is massively understating it actually.

LondonTiger wrote:This current England team rarely puts sides away with any degree of comfort. Thus I enter most weekends feeling we shoudl win, but fearing that the opposition will have something we fail to counter. Ultimately under EJ that was POM last year only, but too many games have been far too close.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:This current England team rarely puts sides away with any degree of comfort. Thus I enter most weekends feeling we shoudl win, but fearing that the opposition will have something we fail to counter. Ultimately under EJ that was POM last year only, but too many games have been far too close.

This is what I agree with more than anything LT.

At stages during games we look relentless, yet we just fail to convert that in to points and then seem to take the foot off the gas and let the opposition back in the game.

We haven't played that relentless, high intensity control for a long time now.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Given its 6ns time and people get wound up and banned a little more easily can't we just take a deep breath read and understand people's points without twisting things and ignoring key points? Pretty good scotland team and I'm a touch worried about Watson should lawes and Hughes start. A touch is massively understating it actually.

The Mishiah is an amazing player, however my favourite England player (Robshaw) is the anti Watson. I've never seen a man get to so many rucks and hit jackling players as hard as Robshaw. He can and will likely keep Watson quiet and nullified.

That will enable Barclay to sneak in and win the turnovers

beshocked wrote:I agree on the general sentiment that I don't want a lock starting in the backrow.

ruggerradge I think it's wrong to say there's a lack of guile in the English side.

Perhaps in certain players yes but still enough in the side as a whole.

I'd say England has more creativity actually.

Only really at full back do I believe Scotland have a clear edge in the backs but then again Brown is in for his combativeness.

In the pack, Scotland perhaps have the more balanced backrow but I feel England have the more skilled front five both on the bench and starting if things open up.

I wouldn't just assume an open game suits Scotland because England have evolved.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Will Daly be back into consideration for this match?

ChequeredJersey wrote:

BamBam wrote:Much obliged

I look at the Scotland team and think the biggest threat to us is the breakdown if Barclay/Watson can have an influence there.

I think Scotland lack big carriers, but they haven't really played that way for a while. If our defence can rattle the half backs, I don't see Scotland having the big carriers to be able to reset and go again

Russell is probably key to the game, if he cuts out the mistakes and comes up with some magic that he has shown he can, Scotland will be dangerous.

I still favour England, but fancy it to be one of the games of the tournament

I think we should win comfortably, can pile pressure on Russell with no attacking inside him and no much help outside him, where Scotland are still missing several class 12s. Pack looks a tad lightweight which makes me less worried about our lack of carriers. Just need to deal with that breakdown.

We won’t go for a proper backrow but we really really should imo

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

beshocked wrote:I agree on the general sentiment that I don't want a lock starting in the backrow.

ruggerradge I think it's wrong to say there's a lack of guile in the English side.

Perhaps in certain players yes but still enough in the side as a whole.

I'd say England has more creativity actually.

Only really at full back do I believe Scotland have a clear edge in the backs but then again Brown is in for his combativeness.

In the pack, Scotland perhaps have the more balanced backrow but I feel England have the more skilled front five both on the bench and starting if things open up.

I wouldn't just assume an open game suits Scotland because England have evolved.

I didn't say a lack, I said the bulk of the guile is with Scotland much like the bulk of the muscle and power is with England.

Scotland have some big guys too, Gilchrist and Gray are not small men.

Gray is 6ft 6" and 19st
Gilchrist is 6ft 7" and 18st 10

We also have a 6ft 4 20st prop etc...

However England have many more big guys who are stronger etc. Wheras the likes of Barclay, Watson and Wilson are much better link men, have a bit more pace and can get through gaps. In the backs it's probably even more apparent. If England go with the likes of Teo at 13, I'd say categorically that Jones has a lot more to his game than the direct power of Teo and is also probably a better ball player.

I think Farrell is the best 12 in the world, with a combination of Power, Defence, Accuracy, Leadership etc, but Horne can create a lot more opportunities with the ball in hand, in my opinion anyway. Similarly in the back 3 Hogg, Seymour and Maitland typically create more than May and Brown. May is a superb strike runner and absolutely rapid, but I'd say the Scottish backs have more than just scintillating pace at their disposal.

Hope that Explains my comment.

Will Daly be back into consideration for this match?

beshocked wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

beshocked wrote:I agree on the general sentiment that I don't want a lock starting in the backrow.

ruggerradge I think it's wrong to say there's a lack of guile in the English side.

Perhaps in certain players yes but still enough in the side as a whole.

I'd say England has more creativity actually.

Only really at full back do I believe Scotland have a clear edge in the backs but then again Brown is in for his combativeness.

In the pack, Scotland perhaps have the more balanced backrow but I feel England have the more skilled front five both on the bench and starting if things open up.

I wouldn't just assume an open game suits Scotland because England have evolved.

I didn't say a lack, I said the bulk of the guile is with Scotland much like the bulk of the muscle and power is with England.

Scotland have some big guys too, Gilchrist and Gray are not small men.

Gray is 6ft 6" and 19st
Gilchrist is 6ft 7" and 18st 10

We also have a 6ft 4 20st prop etc...

However England have many more big guys who are stronger etc. Wheras the likes of Barclay, Watson and Wilson are much better link men, have a bit more pace and can get through gaps. In the backs it's probably even more apparent. If England go with the likes of Teo at 13, I'd say categorically that Jones has a lot more to his game than the direct power of Teo and is also probably a better ball player.

I think Farrell is the best 12 in the world, with a combination of Power, Defence, Accuracy, Leadership etc, but Horne can create a lot more opportunities with the ball in hand, in my opinion anyway. Similarly in the back 3 Hogg, Seymour and Maitland typically create more than May and Brown. May is a superb strike runner and absolutely rapid, but I'd say the Scottish backs have more than just scintillating pace at their disposal.

Hope that Explains my comment.

Will Daly be back into consideration for this match?

I don't think it's true though but you are entitled to your opinion.

Even I mostly agree where I think Scotland's guile is - Hogg and your backrow. That's 4 out of 15 players.

Don't think Horne creates more than Farrell. He doesn't have the repertoire in his armoury, Farrell does. Farrell might not look particularly fast or silky but his basic skills are very good.

Watson and May have raw pace but this is balanced out by Ford and Farrell who give England many options.

Scotland also lack any forward with the handling quality of M.Vunipola. Other England forwards also have good handling abilities.


Maitland doesn't have any pace....

A lot of the Scottish backline play will rely on 3 players - Russell,Huw Jones and Hogg IMO.

Scotland's more creative 9 is on the bench.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

You should go into coaching BS. Very canny of thought!!

BamBam wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

You should go into coaching BS. Very canny of thought!!

Being the bestest, greatest, really really smart rugby analyst already takes up too much of his time

BamBam wrote:*Nods head sheepishly*

beshocked wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

beshocked wrote:I agree on the general sentiment that I don't want a lock starting in the backrow.

ruggerradge I think it's wrong to say there's a lack of guile in the English side.

Perhaps in certain players yes but still enough in the side as a whole.

I'd say England has more creativity actually.

Only really at full back do I believe Scotland have a clear edge in the backs but then again Brown is in for his combativeness.

In the pack, Scotland perhaps have the more balanced backrow but I feel England have the more skilled front five both on the bench and starting if things open up.

I wouldn't just assume an open game suits Scotland because England have evolved.

I didn't say a lack, I said the bulk of the guile is with Scotland much like the bulk of the muscle and power is with England.

Scotland have some big guys too, Gilchrist and Gray are not small men.

Gray is 6ft 6" and 19st
Gilchrist is 6ft 7" and 18st 10

We also have a 6ft 4 20st prop etc...

However England have many more big guys who are stronger etc. Wheras the likes of Barclay, Watson and Wilson are much better link men, have a bit more pace and can get through gaps. In the backs it's probably even more apparent. If England go with the likes of Teo at 13, I'd say categorically that Jones has a lot more to his game than the direct power of Teo and is also probably a better ball player.

I think Farrell is the best 12 in the world, with a combination of Power, Defence, Accuracy, Leadership etc, but Horne can create a lot more opportunities with the ball in hand, in my opinion anyway. Similarly in the back 3 Hogg, Seymour and Maitland typically create more than May and Brown. May is a superb strike runner and absolutely rapid, but I'd say the Scottish backs have more than just scintillating pace at their disposal.

Hope that Explains my comment.

Will Daly be back into consideration for this match?

I don't think it's true though but you are entitled to your opinion.

Even I mostly agree where I think Scotland's guile is - Hogg and your backrow. That's 4 out of 15 players.

Don't think Horne creates more than Farrell. He doesn't have the repertoire in his armoury, Farrell does. Farrell might not look particularly fast or silky but his basic skills are very good.

Watson and May have raw pace but this is balanced out by Ford and Farrell who give England many options.

Scotland also lack any forward with the handling quality of M.Vunipola. Other England forwards also have good handling abilities.


Maitland doesn't have any pace....

A lot of the Scottish backline play will rely on 3 players - Russell,Huw Jones and Hogg IMO.

Scotland's more creative 9 is on the bench.

Recwatcher16 wrote:...Scotland's last win against England was 2008...

BigGee wrote:

The player I was most disappointed not to see debut last time out was Kinghorn. He is an x factor player and a Scotland star in the making, who may well have the same kind of impact on the team as Hogg has down the line. Neither of our wingers are really ripping up trees and if he comes on and plays well, a starting place will be his. Yes it is a lot of pressure to debut in a CC game, but he seems to have dealt with it all very well so far and actually has an awful lot of experience for one so young.

English fans who do not watch much/any Scottish rugby may not be that familiar with him. He is a tall rangy full back who is a very good ball player and is deceptively fast and has a devastating outside break. You think defenders have got him covered and yet he just glides past them. The sooner he is capped the better.

Tramptastic wrote:

beshocked wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

beshocked wrote:I agree on the general sentiment that I don't want a lock starting in the backrow.

ruggerradge I think it's wrong to say there's a lack of guile in the English side.

Perhaps in certain players yes but still enough in the side as a whole.

I'd say England has more creativity actually.

Only really at full back do I believe Scotland have a clear edge in the backs but then again Brown is in for his combativeness.

In the pack, Scotland perhaps have the more balanced backrow but I feel England have the more skilled front five both on the bench and starting if things open up.

I wouldn't just assume an open game suits Scotland because England have evolved.

I didn't say a lack, I said the bulk of the guile is with Scotland much like the bulk of the muscle and power is with England.

Scotland have some big guys too, Gilchrist and Gray are not small men.

Gray is 6ft 6" and 19st
Gilchrist is 6ft 7" and 18st 10

We also have a 6ft 4 20st prop etc...

However England have many more big guys who are stronger etc. Wheras the likes of Barclay, Watson and Wilson are much better link men, have a bit more pace and can get through gaps. In the backs it's probably even more apparent. If England go with the likes of Teo at 13, I'd say categorically that Jones has a lot more to his game than the direct power of Teo and is also probably a better ball player.

I think Farrell is the best 12 in the world, with a combination of Power, Defence, Accuracy, Leadership etc, but Horne can create a lot more opportunities with the ball in hand, in my opinion anyway. Similarly in the back 3 Hogg, Seymour and Maitland typically create more than May and Brown. May is a superb strike runner and absolutely rapid, but I'd say the Scottish backs have more than just scintillating pace at their disposal.

Hope that Explains my comment.

Will Daly be back into consideration for this match?

I don't think it's true though but you are entitled to your opinion.

Even I mostly agree where I think Scotland's guile is - Hogg and your backrow. That's 4 out of 15 players.

Don't think Horne creates more than Farrell. He doesn't have the repertoire in his armoury, Farrell does. Farrell might not look particularly fast or silky but his basic skills are very good.

Watson and May have raw pace but this is balanced out by Ford and Farrell who give England many options.

Scotland also lack any forward with the handling quality of M.Vunipola. Other England forwards also have good handling abilities.


Maitland doesn't have any pace....

A lot of the Scottish backline play will rely on 3 players - Russell,Huw Jones and Hogg IMO.

Scotland's more creative 9 is on the bench.

Beshocked do you watch a lot of these scottish players regularly? with the exception of Maitland as you will know his pros and cons (yes he IS slow)

Horne for all his faults when being steamrolled by the occasional goliath (who hasn't?) is a superb support runner. His passing puts people in to space and he tracks the ball well, often as not he'll have a couple of touches on the ball before its scored, he knows when to pop up on someones shoulder and he's got terrific acceleration. Two qualities I don't think Farrell has. On the other hand Farrells defense, game management, physicality and goal kicking are far superior. Should be a decent head to head, though most of us are expecting Farrell to come out on top.

Otherwise Scotlands backrow are terrific with ball in hand support play, did you see our 2nd rows interplay for the 1st scotland try against france??? and our front row are really quite good in the loose. Its one thing all the pundits identified before the tournament started that Scotland are not the strongest scrummagers/set peice players but its the interplay between forwards and backs that are the strong look. I'd suggest that your ascertion that Scotlands forwards are weaker ball in hand is not based on a huge amount.

...England will win though

Tramptastic wrote:

beshocked wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

beshocked wrote:I agree on the general sentiment that I don't want a lock starting in the backrow.

ruggerradge I think it's wrong to say there's a lack of guile in the English side.

Perhaps in certain players yes but still enough in the side as a whole.

I'd say England has more creativity actually.

Only really at full back do I believe Scotland have a clear edge in the backs but then again Brown is in for his combativeness.

In the pack, Scotland perhaps have the more balanced backrow but I feel England have the more skilled front five both on the bench and starting if things open up.

I wouldn't just assume an open game suits Scotland because England have evolved.

I didn't say a lack, I said the bulk of the guile is with Scotland much like the bulk of the muscle and power is with England.

Scotland have some big guys too, Gilchrist and Gray are not small men.

Gray is 6ft 6" and 19st
Gilchrist is 6ft 7" and 18st 10

We also have a 6ft 4 20st prop etc...

However England have many more big guys who are stronger etc. Wheras the likes of Barclay, Watson and Wilson are much better link men, have a bit more pace and can get through gaps. In the backs it's probably even more apparent. If England go with the likes of Teo at 13, I'd say categorically that Jones has a lot more to his game than the direct power of Teo and is also probably a better ball player.

I think Farrell is the best 12 in the world, with a combination of Power, Defence, Accuracy, Leadership etc, but Horne can create a lot more opportunities with the ball in hand, in my opinion anyway. Similarly in the back 3 Hogg, Seymour and Maitland typically create more than May and Brown. May is a superb strike runner and absolutely rapid, but I'd say the Scottish backs have more than just scintillating pace at their disposal.

Hope that Explains my comment.

Will Daly be back into consideration for this match?

I don't think it's true though but you are entitled to your opinion.

Even I mostly agree where I think Scotland's guile is - Hogg and your backrow. That's 4 out of 15 players.

Don't think Horne creates more than Farrell. He doesn't have the repertoire in his armoury, Farrell does. Farrell might not look particularly fast or silky but his basic skills are very good.

Watson and May have raw pace but this is balanced out by Ford and Farrell who give England many options.

Scotland also lack any forward with the handling quality of M.Vunipola. Other England forwards also have good handling abilities.


Maitland doesn't have any pace....

A lot of the Scottish backline play will rely on 3 players - Russell,Huw Jones and Hogg IMO.

Scotland's more creative 9 is on the bench.

Beshocked do you watch a lot of these scottish players regularly? with the exception of Maitland as you will know his pros and cons (yes he IS slow)

Horne for all his faults when being steamrolled by the occasional goliath (who hasn't?) is a superb support runner. His passing puts people in to space and he tracks the ball well, often as not he'll have a couple of touches on the ball before its scored, he knows when to pop up on someones shoulder and he's got terrific acceleration. Two qualities I don't think Farrell has. On the other hand Farrells defense, game management, physicality and goal kicking are far superior. Should be a decent head to head, though most of us are expecting Farrell to come out on top.

Otherwise Scotlands backrow are terrific with ball in hand support play, did you see our 2nd rows interplay for the 1st scotland try against france??? and our front row are really quite good in the loose. Its one thing all the pundits identified before the tournament started that Scotland are not the strongest scrummagers/set peice players but its the interplay between forwards and backs that are the strong look. I'd suggest that your ascertion that Scotlands forwards are weaker ball in hand is not based on a huge amount.

...England will win though

EWT Spoons wrote:

BigGee wrote:

The player I was most disappointed not to see debut last time out was Kinghorn. He is an x factor player and a Scotland star in the making, who may well have the same kind of impact on the team as Hogg has down the line. Neither of our wingers are really ripping up trees and if he comes on and plays well, a starting place will be his. Yes it is a lot of pressure to debut in a CC game, but he seems to have dealt with it all very well so far and actually has an awful lot of experience for one so young.

English fans who do not watch much/any Scottish rugby may not be that familiar with him. He is a tall rangy full back who is a very good ball player and is deceptively fast and has a devastating outside break. You think defenders have got him covered and yet he just glides past them. The sooner he is capped the better.

I fear you have over-hyped him here BigGee, whilst I fully agree with your assessment, I fear if he comes on, he could be totally overwhelmed by the occasion and not do himself justice.  It's a hell of a game to make your international debut.  Or as Scott Hastings says "dayboooo"

TightHEAD wrote:5 changes for England apparently!

Seems like a lot, not sure if true but that's what I've heard, hope its wrong to be honest!

SecretFly wrote:Farrell , Itoje, Nowell, Ford, Robshaw all rested.

Startling!

TightHEAD wrote:5 changes for England apparently!

Seems like a lot, not sure if true but that's what I've heard, hope its wrong to be honest!

TightHEAD wrote:5 changes for England apparently!

Seems like a lot, not sure if true but that's what I've heard, hope its wrong to be honest!

LondonTiger wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:5 changes for England apparently!

Seems like a lot, not sure if true but that's what I've heard, hope its wrong to be honest!

Heard it from whom?

TightHEAD wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:5 changes for England apparently!

Seems like a lot, not sure if true but that's what I've heard, hope its wrong to be honest!

Heard it from whom?

Rather not say.

Top......Men.

IanBru wrote:Top...


...men.