6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

by **George Carlin** Tue 13 Feb 2018, 11:01 am

First topic message reminder :

6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 8 Scot_f10

6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 8 Englan11

SCOTLAND v ENGLAND
24 February 2018
KO: 16:45 GMT
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on [Old BBC Colonial]

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

A. Head to Head

135 Played 135
42 Won 75
18 Drawn 18
75 Lost 42
1,162 Points 1,623

B. Recent Form

2 February 2013
Twickenham, London
38 – 18 to England

8 February 2014
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
0 – 20 to England

14 March 2015
Twickenham, London
25 – 13 to England

6 February 2016
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
9 – 15 to England

11 March 2017
Twickenham, London
61 – 21 to England

C. Teams

SCOTLAND
6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 8 Scotty11

6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 8 Scotty11

Hogg, Seymour, Jones, Horne, Maitland, Russell, Laidlaw; Reid, McInally, Berghan, Gilchrist, J Gray, Barclay (capt), Watson, Wilson.

Replacements: Lawson, J Bhatti, WP Nel, Swinson, Denton, Price, Grigg, Kinghorn.

ENGLAND
6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 8 Englis10

6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 8 Englis10

Brown, Watson, Joseph, Farrell, May, Ford, Care; M Vunipola, Hartley (capt), Cole, Launchbury, Itoje, Lawes, Robshaw, Hughes.

Replacements: George, Marler, Williams, G Kruis (Saracens), Underhill, Wigglesworth, B Te'o, J Nowell.

by Hazel Sapling Wed 21 Feb 2018, 4:51 pm

Was not pleased to see Welsh dropped. It is too soon for Nel who could go and get a game or two with Edinburgh under his belt before the Ireland game. Welsh was one of the bright spots in Wales and Berghan getting stronger as the game went on is the only reason he did not play against France.

Lawson should have been dropped. Get that Malcolm coming in for his debut could be overwhelming, but the power difference is stark. Lawson vs George is a clear England victory; Malcolm at least offers the possibility of more.

Swinson for Toolis is a bit of a step back in the longer run. For this game Swinson offers what he offers and Toolis has a lower floor. Worried Swinson is too small to make an impact against a large pack.

Grigg coming in for Harris is fine. Would have preferred Scott for his bulk even if Grigg is the better defender. Te'o vs Grigg is a stark size difference.

Starting line-up is fine. Our front 5 are going to need to carry well at close quarters cause the back row is not built to. England will be expecting us to go wide quick and we may get joy early going near the rucks to draw England in. If they drop Underhill to bring Hughes or Haskell in, England should not have the pace in the forwards to stick with ours if we can get some line breaks. This game is a tough ask as England have the power we struggle to deal with and the skills/fitness to exploit us once we commit to stop it. Russell and Hogg need to actually show some form (less so Hogg). The pressure thankfully is not on us. Anything less than England winning by 10+ would be considered disappointing (assuming all the usual caveats about discipline, injuries, etc.)

by Poorfour Wed 21 Feb 2018, 5:15 pm

Beshocked. Read what I actually wrote instead of making up your own version. Here it is for reference:

Poorfour wrote:picked Easter over an unfit Bill and Ben,

I didn’t say anything about Easter being intrinsically better than Billy or Morgan, which is the interpretation you have made up. I said that he should have been picked once it was clear they were unfit.

Billy played well in the context of an underperforming pack, and then got injured. Morgan was clearly not properly fit from the outset. Easter was fully fit and in top form, and hadn’t been affected by the disastrous pre tournament training camp.

All of that, apart from Billy’s injury (and wasn’t he also coming back from injury pre-tournament? Or was that a different tournament?) was readily apparent before the tournament, and it’s reasonable to believe that Easter could well have made a big difference to England’s chances. He had, after all, beaten Australia in an RWC semi final.

Itoje’s ability was only confirmed in retrospect. It is always a risk to try out a new player on the international stage, however good they are. There is a big difference between trying a new player and picking someone who has performed at international level for a long time.

(And while I agree that Billy - if he stays fit - could be one of the top couple of No 8s in the world, the gap between Billy and Easter in 2015 is not as big as you like to make out. Billy was very powerful, but still pretty raw tactically and in terms of skills. Easter, while not as dynamic, was much more wily, a better reader of the game, had better hands and was handier in both the setpiece and lineout. Even today, Billy’s game is based on doing one thing extremely well: being hard to stop. His cousin Taulupe is a much more rounded No 8. Are you making him into a bit of a deity?)

by beshocked Wed 21 Feb 2018, 5:27 pm

Disagree about pressure not being on Scotland.

You are at home, Scotland need to prove they are making progress. There were high expectations going into this year's 6 nations.

There's extra pressure on Russell to perform too. Also the belief to avenge last year's defeat.

Jones is in a better position going into this game than Townsend.

This isn't a Scottish side that will want to be known as plucky underdogs. They'll want to send out a message that they can beat anyone at Murrayfield.

Poorfour

The difference between Billy and Easter was pretty big which is why Easter was 3rd choice no 8 and not first choice.

I'd agree Faletau is a more rounded number 8 than Billy but not better.

Billy was outplaying his cousin before his injury.

Billy missed out the Australia game so what do you expect?

Easter was in good club form.

Well no I don't think a fully fit Easter would have been better than Billy - Billy was one of our best performers before his injury.

On the contrary you are hyping up Easter, simply because he played well for Quins. To be fair he was a very accomplished club no 8 but his lack of pace and power let him down at international level.

I've said in the past if you put the brain of Easter in the body of Haskell you'd have a top class no 8 but Easter lacked the attributes to be a truly good international no 8.

As for Itoje, it was pretty obvious he was going to be good which is why I championed him.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 21 Feb 2018, 5:51 pm

Shocked England are firm favourites.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 21 Feb 2018, 6:01 pm

It's obvious mercer is going to be good.why aren't you championing him?

by No 7&1/2 Wed 21 Feb 2018, 6:03 pm

Or to be less subtle why hasn't Itoje improve since the world cup?

by ChequeredJersey Wed 21 Feb 2018, 6:29 pm

I don't want to read back to find out... Why is there an argument about Itoje and number 8s now?

by lostinwales Wed 21 Feb 2018, 6:45 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Or to be less subtle why hasn't Itoje improve since the world cup?

How can you improve on perfection?

Seriously that guy is going to be playing for England as long as he wants to. But it is perfectly possible for form to go down as well as up, and, for many reasons, his form is down at the moment. He's still very good

by TJ Wed 21 Feb 2018, 6:56 pm

Tight five:
Scotland have gained parity pretty much in scrums so far despite all the missing players and England have not scrummed anyone off the park so advantage England but only by a small amount. In the lose I would give Scotland the edge in mobility but England the power.

Back row - a tasty battle looming. Scotland will be after turnovers. Can the English support get there quick enough to stop them? No power runner for Scotland. I fear the pick and go game of England

Halfbacks / centres - Will Russell have his head on straight? Laidlaw has proved his class. Mind you so have the England half backs and in Farrell they have a playmaker as well at 12. I fear for Scotlands midfield defence but surely we cannot implode two years running. Scotland won't have a single big back on the pitch

Scotland will score tries and more than one - but I doubt our defense can contain the power of the england pack and England will be able to control the ball and territory enough to run out comfortable winners

by Sgt_Pooly Wed 21 Feb 2018, 7:10 pm

Scotland have gained parity pretty much in scrums so far despite all the missing players and England have not scrummed anyone off the park

The English scrum has improved this 6N and we gave Italy a decent going over a few weeks back. I suspect we'll have a decent advantage, possibly a few pens going our way.

by lostinwales Wed 21 Feb 2018, 7:16 pm

TJ wrote:Tight five:
Scotland have gained parity pretty much in scrums so far despite all the missing players and England have not scrummed anyone off the park so advantage England but only by a small amount. In the lose I would give Scotland the edge in mobility but England the power.

Back row - a tasty battle looming. Scotland will be after turnovers. Can the English support get there quick enough to stop them? No power runner for Scotland. I fear the pick and go game of England

Halfbacks / centres - Will Russell have his head on straight? Laidlaw has proved his class. Mind you so have the England half backs and in Farrell they have a playmaker as well at 12. I fear for Scotlands midfield defence but surely we cannot implode two years running. Scotland won't have a single big back on the pitch

Scotland will score tries and more than one - but I doubt our defense can contain the power of the england pack and England will be able to control the ball and territory enough to run out comfortable winners

I'll give you one try. More if we are ahead by 30 or so.

by dummy_half Wed 21 Feb 2018, 7:47 pm

TJ

England's back line isn't exactly enormous either - even Te'o isn't huge by the standards of modern centres, and I doubt any of the rest are significantly over 15 stone. Indeed, this lack of size was one of the big concerns with playing Ford and Farrell at 10-12, and while it hasn't been the defensive weakness initially feared (because Farrell in particular is very effective in the defensive system, getting play back inside to where the back row cover is), we have on occasion looked to be lacking a back who can carry into heavy traffic (Nowell is probably the best we have for that, based on balance and being an awkward sod rather than pure power). This was emphasised last week in the 2nd half when Simmonds was injured and then Launchbury substituted (and Mako exhausted), removing most of the top carriers from the forwards...

by **RDW** Wed 21 Feb 2018, 7:49 pm

lostinwales wrote:
TJ wrote:Tight five:
Scotland have gained parity pretty much in scrums so far despite all the missing players and England have not scrummed anyone off the park so advantage England but only by a small amount. In the lose I would give Scotland the edge in mobility but England the power.

Back row - a tasty battle looming. Scotland will be after turnovers. Can the English support get there quick enough to stop them? No power runner for Scotland. I fear the pick and go game of England

Halfbacks / centres - Will Russell have his head on straight? Laidlaw has proved his class. Mind you so have the England half backs and in Farrell they have a playmaker as well at 12. I fear for Scotlands midfield defence but surely we cannot implode two years running. Scotland won't have a single big back on the pitch

Scotland will score tries and more than one - but I doubt our defense can contain the power of the england pack and England will be able to control the ball and territory enough to run out comfortable winners

I'll give you one try. More if we are ahead by 30 or so.

That's kind of you!

by majesticimperialman Wed 21 Feb 2018, 7:55 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
TJ wrote:Tight five:
Scotland have gained parity pretty much in scrums so far despite all the missing players and England have not scrummed anyone off the park so advantage England but only by a small amount. In the lose I would give Scotland the edge in mobility but England the power.

Back row - a tasty battle looming. Scotland will be after turnovers. Can the English support get there quick enough to stop them? No power runner for Scotland. I fear the pick and go game of England

Halfbacks / centres - Will Russell have his head on straight? Laidlaw has proved his class. Mind you so have the England half backs and in Farrell they have a playmaker as well at 12. I fear for Scotlands midfield defence but surely we cannot implode two years running. Scotland won't have a single big back on the pitch

Scotland will score tries and more than one - but I doubt our defense can contain the power of the england pack and England will be able to control the ball and territory enough to run out comfortable winners

I'll give you one try. More if we are ahead by 30 or so.

That's kind of you!

England won last year 61-21. What makes you think the score wont be similar this year?

I know Scotland had a few injuries last year, but you can only play what is in front of you right.

by **RDW** Wed 21 Feb 2018, 8:06 pm

Um, last year was at Twickenham - where we hardly ever win - whereas we're at home where we have a very good record having beaten all top 10 teams lately bar England and NZ (who we ran very close!).

I think the fact we got humped last year is exactly why we won't be this year - like the Wales game Scotland went into that game confident but left with their tails between their legs having got things very, very wrong. England also had one of their best performances under EJ's reign, and we completely fell apart after an early yellow card then losing key players to injury.

We have had the chastening experience already this 6N so there will be zero complacency going into this game, and the players will know they will have to fight for ever inch all game to be competitive.

So while I don't think we will win I'd hope that it won't be another humping and that it is a competitive game, and my tongue in cheek response was due to the wording lostinwales used, which could have been phrased a bit more diplomatically!

by IanBru Wed 21 Feb 2018, 8:09 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
TJ wrote:Tight five:
Scotland have gained parity pretty much in scrums so far despite all the missing players and England have not scrummed anyone off the park so advantage England but only by a small amount. In the lose I would give Scotland the edge in mobility but England the power.

Back row - a tasty battle looming. Scotland will be after turnovers. Can the English support get there quick enough to stop them? No power runner for Scotland. I fear the pick and go game of England

Halfbacks / centres - Will Russell have his head on straight? Laidlaw has proved his class. Mind you so have the England half backs and in Farrell they have a playmaker as well at 12. I fear for Scotlands midfield defence but surely we cannot implode two years running. Scotland won't have a single big back on the pitch

Scotland will score tries and more than one - but I doubt our defense can contain the power of the england pack and England will be able to control the ball and territory enough to run out comfortable winners

I'll give you one try. More if we are ahead by 30 or so.

That's kind of you!

England won last year 61-21. What makes you think the score wont be similar this year?

I know Scotland had a few injuries last year, but you can only play what is in front of you right.

You kind of answered your own question there. I don't think we'll have another freak run of injuries this year, with a third-string scrum half playing on the wing, a centre at full-back etc.

by TightHEAD Wed 21 Feb 2018, 8:11 pm

George Carlin wrote:
IanBru wrote:Top...

...men.
I get the Indiana Jones reference, brother.

by Breadvan Wed 21 Feb 2018, 9:10 pm

IanBru wrote:Top...

...men.

The inside of Townsends head is a source of unspeakable power and it has be researched...

by TJ Wed 21 Feb 2018, 9:45 pm

Breadvan wrote:
IanBru wrote:Top...

...men.

The inside of Townsends head is a source of unspeakable power and it has be researched...

Can he use his power to rid Russell of the gremlin?

by IanBru Wed 21 Feb 2018, 10:13 pm

Breadvan wrote:
IanBru wrote:Top...

...men.

The inside of Townsends head is a source of unspeakable power and it has be researched...

I'll be honest, whenever I see a Scotland teamsheet appear on Twitter, I hear this tune in my head... (start at 0:35)

"It could be wonderous, it could be utter sh**e."

by doctor_grey Thu 22 Feb 2018, 12:12 am

IanBru wrote:
Breadvan wrote:
IanBru wrote:Top...

...men.

The inside of Townsends head is a source of unspeakable power and it has be researched...
I'll be honest, whenever I see a Scotland teamsheet appear on Twitter, I hear this tune in my head... (start at 0:35)

"It could be wonderous, it could be utter sh**e."

This is too funny. Where I live, this was on last night. My son was watching and I couldn't resist sitting with him for a while: "Asps! Very dangerous.......You go first."

by SecretFly Thu 22 Feb 2018, 12:18 am

Back when Spielberg was a good film-maker. Then, like Woody Allen, he got pretensions and decided to kill off all his best bits to add more 'gloomy gravitas'.

F**K Gloomy Gravitas!

by **George Carlin** Thu 22 Feb 2018, 6:21 am

One line in Temple of Doom is one of the best in cinema history:

"It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage".

Now that I'm officially middle aged, I am entitled to use that all the time.

by kingelderfield Thu 22 Feb 2018, 6:31 am

I'm due to arrive at Fort William around 4pm Saturday. Anyone know somewhere good to see the game?

by kingelderfield Thu 22 Feb 2018, 6:48 am

I think Itoje and Vunipola and Coles have all played far too much rugby this year already, post Lions that is. Obviously this accounts for their treading water performances. The fact none of them have succumbed to a major injury is a minor miracle, though there's still time.
All that said however, this is usually the time the tournament begins to take shape given the time spent together after games and a rest week.
Let's hope the performances improve here on in.

by **RDW** Thu 22 Feb 2018, 7:15 am

kingelderfield wrote:I'm due to arrive at Fort William around 4pm Saturday. Anyone know somewhere good to see the game?

Edinburgh? Very Happy

by Scottrf Thu 22 Feb 2018, 7:19 am

kingelderfield wrote:I think Itoje and Vunipola and Coles have all played far too much rugby this year already, post Lions that is. Obviously this accounts for their treading water performances. The fact none of them have succumbed to a major injury is a minor miracle, though there's still time.
All that said however, this is usually the time the tournament begins to take shape given the time spent together after games and a rest week.
Let's hope the performances improve here on in.

Coles didn't even play in the Lions tour and hasn't played since November.

by kingelderfield Thu 22 Feb 2018, 7:19 am

I'm looking forward to so much more Scottish good humour.

by **RDW** Thu 22 Feb 2018, 8:24 am

kingelderfield wrote:I'm looking forward to so much more Scottish good humour.

A more helpful answer is Fort William really isn't a big place, with a Whetherspoons and a couple of other pubs - mainly on the waterfront. I've never watched a rugby game there so your best bet is to try each one and see if they are showing it. A pub crawl of Fort William won't take very long!

by kingelderfield Thu 22 Feb 2018, 8:32 am

Scottrf wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:I think Itoje and Vunipola and Coles have all played far too much rugby this year already, post Lions that is. Obviously this accounts for their treading water performances. The fact none of them have succumbed to a major injury is a minor miracle, though there's still time.
All that said however, this is usually the time the tournament begins to take shape given the time spent together after games and a rest week.
Let's hope the performances improve here on in.

Coles didn't even play in the Lions tour and hasn't played since November.

Fella it seem's you misunderstood me on purpose because you have issues that you cannot deal with on your own.

by Scottrf Thu 22 Feb 2018, 8:35 am

kingelderfield wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:I think Itoje and Vunipola and Coles have all played far too much rugby this year already, post Lions that is. Obviously this accounts for their treading water performances. The fact none of them have succumbed to a major injury is a minor miracle, though there's still time.
All that said however, this is usually the time the tournament begins to take shape given the time spent together after games and a rest week.
Let's hope the performances improve here on in.

Coles didn't even play in the Lions tour and hasn't played since November.

Fella it seem's you misunderstood me on purpose because you have issues that you cannot deal with on your own.

You took that pretty badly thumbsup

by Scottrf Thu 22 Feb 2018, 8:47 am

Gregor:

"“It’s definitely something we have highlighted to our players. It will be interesting to see whether they [England] stay onside. We watched the game last year and we’ve watched their games over the last few weeks and to generate that line speed, especially off first phase, you have to make sure you stay 10 metres back off line-outs before the ball is delivered and you don’t get beyond the back foot of the ruck in phase play.

“If they are able to do that and still generate line speed, then we have to deal with that with the way we structure their attack. You’d need to look at their last few games to see whether they do come offside. That’s down to the refereeing team to see if it does happen."

Is he worried Russell can't cope with the pressure?

by kingelderfield Thu 22 Feb 2018, 8:50 am

Scottrf wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:I think Itoje and Vunipola and Coles have all played far too much rugby this year already, post Lions that is. Obviously this accounts for their treading water performances. The fact none of them have succumbed to a major injury is a minor miracle, though there's still time.
All that said however, this is usually the time the tournament begins to take shape given the time spent together after games and a rest week.
Let's hope the performances improve here on in.

Coles didn't even play in the Lions tour and hasn't played since November.

Fella it seem's you misunderstood me on purpose because you have issues that you cannot deal with on your own.

You took that pretty badly

No I didn't take it anyway. I am simply highlighting that you took it upon yourself to show yourself as an inadequate individual. That fact that you can't take ownership for your behaviour is your look out.

by Scottrf Thu 22 Feb 2018, 8:52 am

79 international appearances though, you could learn his name. And take a joke.

by lostinwales Thu 22 Feb 2018, 9:00 am

Scottrf wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:I think Itoje and Vunipola and Coles have all played far too much rugby this year already, post Lions that is. Obviously this accounts for their treading water performances. The fact none of them have succumbed to a major injury is a minor miracle, though there's still time.
All that said however, this is usually the time the tournament begins to take shape given the time spent together after games and a rest week.
Let's hope the performances improve here on in.

Coles didn't even play in the Lions tour and hasn't played since November.

Fella it seem's you misunderstood me on purpose because you have issues that you cannot deal with on your own.

You took that pretty badly

Must just be pre morning coffee.

Dan Cole is actually playing better than he has for a while. Much more significant contributions and even some carrying.
Itoje we have talked about, and he has spent time off injured - and it was a facial injury so no worries about hard work causing a relapse or maintaining fitness. He's just on a dip in form down from 'amazing' to just 'very good'
Vunipola is more of a worry in that we have been running him into the ground, and he has been very hard working (and very good). Luckily we actually have the perfect solution to this with the return of Marler. I actually expect Marler to start but could see that decision going either way, and could see them playing only a half each regardless

by Scottrf Thu 22 Feb 2018, 9:16 am

15 Mike Brown (Harlequins 66 caps), 14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby 30 caps), 13 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby 37 caps), 12 Owen Farrell (Saracens 55 caps), 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers 31 caps), 10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers 42 caps), 9 Danny Care (Harlequins 78 caps), 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens 46 caps), 2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints 91 caps), 3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers 79 caps), 4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps 49 caps), 5 Maro Itoje (Saracens 16 caps), 6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints 63 caps), 7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins 61 caps), 8 Nathan Hughes (Wasps 12 caps).

Finishers

16 Jamie George (Saracens 22 caps), 17 Joe Marler (Harlequins 53 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs 7 caps), 19 George Kruis (Saracens 23 caps), 20 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby 5 caps), 21 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens 28 caps), 22 Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors 10 caps), 23 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs 25 caps).

So just Hughes in for Simmons.

by hugehandoff Thu 22 Feb 2018, 9:21 am

I thought Kruis was released recently from one of the camps? Clearly something not 100% right as far as Jones is concerned, but he still makes the bench. Too soon for Sinckler and Williams playing well, although Kyle does offer something explosive as a finisher. A decent side.

by **BigGee** Thu 22 Feb 2018, 9:22 am

Scottrf wrote:15 Mike Brown (Harlequins 66 caps), 14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby 30 caps), 13 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby 37 caps), 12 Owen Farrell (Saracens 55 caps), 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers 31 caps), 10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers 42 caps), 9 Danny Care (Harlequins 78 caps), 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens 46 caps), 2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints 91 caps), 3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers 79 caps), 4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps 49 caps), 5 Maro Itoje (Saracens 16 caps), 6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints 63 caps), 7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins 61 caps), 8 Nathan Hughes (Wasps 12 caps).

Finishers

16 Jamie George (Saracens 22 caps), 17 Joe Marler (Harlequins 53 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs 7 caps), 19 George Kruis (Saracens 23 caps), 20 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby 5 caps), 21 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens 28 caps), 22 Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors 10 caps), 23 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs 25 caps).

So just Hughes in for Simmons.

looks weak!

by TightHEAD Thu 22 Feb 2018, 9:27 am

Looks like my sources inside the RFU got a little excited yesterday!

Top............................Men............hmm?

by Hazel Sapling Thu 22 Feb 2018, 9:35 am

That is a big pack. We should beat them to the breakdowns out wide with 2 true opensides (and 1 that can play there), whether we can survive clear outs...

We are going to have to get possession and hold it longer than normal. Vunipola, Lawes, Itoje, Launchbury and Hughes will wear us down before George and Te'o get on the pitch. I honestly have no idea how we are going to defend other than to keep the ball and ask England to get it back.

by Geordie Thu 22 Feb 2018, 9:38 am

I did think Marler would have started mind.

So no Haskell. Does that mean Robshaw reverts to 8 when Hughes is blowing out of his backside at 50mins..?

by lostinwales Thu 22 Feb 2018, 9:38 am

TightHEAD wrote:Looks like my sources inside the RFU got a little excited yesterday!

Top............................Men............hmm?

Does nobody read anything? There was an England team that was announced with 5 changes but that was the Women's team.

So no Haskell. Hughes must be in decent shape. I'd rather have Underhill in the squad than Haskell these days but it's an interesting question over Haskell vs Kruis.

by TightHEAD Thu 22 Feb 2018, 9:39 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:I did think Marler would have started mind.

So no Haskell. Does that mean Robshaw reverts to 8 when Hughes is blowing out of his backside at 50mins..?

50mins?

more like 25!

by Scottrf Thu 22 Feb 2018, 9:39 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:That is a big pack. We should beat them to the breakdowns out wide with 2 true opensides (and 1 that can play there), whether we can survive clear outs...

We are going to have to get possession and hold it longer than normal. Vunipola, Lawes, Itoje, Launchbury and Hughes will wear us down before George and Te'o get on the pitch. I honestly have no idea how we are going to defend other than to keep the ball and ask England to get it back.

Contesting rucks is how you defend against this team. Even winning a lineout isn't a guarantee if you get a penalty though with Lawes/Itoje and Kruis on the bench.

by lostinwales Thu 22 Feb 2018, 9:44 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:That is a big pack. We should beat them to the breakdowns out wide with 2 true opensides (and 1 that can play there), whether we can survive clear outs...

We are going to have to get possession and hold it longer than normal. Vunipola, Lawes, Itoje, Launchbury and Hughes will wear us down before George and Te'o get on the pitch. I honestly have no idea how we are going to defend other than to keep the ball and ask England to get it back.

I do think rugby is a lot 'rock paper scissors' in that some teams are just natually set up to play vs certain styles. We (England) have had a few games recently against a team that play 2 opensides (sometimes, apparently, 3) and we have done very well every time.

Now the trick vs Australia seemed to be that if they didn't get the quick ball from the rucks we just overmuscled them, as originally they were asking Fardy to do all the hard work that would normally get spread over the whole back row, and then when he went, I don't know who. I know your guys are not show boats like Hooper but it could be a hard day for the pack

by doctor_grey Thu 22 Feb 2018, 9:56 am

George Carlin wrote:One line in Temple of Doom is one of the best in cinema history:

"It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage".

Now that I'm officially middle aged, I am entitled to use that all the time.

Sh!t, mate. That line is the story of my life.

(I am struggling how to fit that line, or any Indiana Jones stuff, into a brilliant analysis of the England team to face Scotland, but gimmee time)

by **LondonTiger** Thu 22 Feb 2018, 10:12 am

Scottrf wrote:79 international appearances though, you could learn his name. And take a joke.

To be fair Dan Cole and Dane Coles are very similar names especially to someone with the comment self moderated and deleted

by TightHEAD Thu 22 Feb 2018, 10:45 am

doctor_grey wrote:
George Carlin wrote:One line in Temple of Doom is one of the best in cinema history:

"It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage".

Now that I'm officially middle aged, I am entitled to use that all the time.
Sh!t, mate. That line is the story of my life.

(I am struggling how to fit that line, or any Indiana Jones stuff, into a brilliant analysis of the England team to face Scotland, but gimmee time)

Fortune and glory, kid. Fortune and glory.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 22 Feb 2018, 10:58 am

TightHEAD wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
George Carlin wrote:One line in Temple of Doom is one of the best in cinema history:

"It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage".

Now that I'm officially middle aged, I am entitled to use that all the time.
Sh!t, mate. That line is the story of my life.

(I am struggling how to fit that line, or any Indiana Jones stuff, into a brilliant analysis of the England team to face Scotland, but gimmee time)
Fortune and glory, kid. Fortune and glory.

“You’re gonna get killed chasing after your damn ‘fortune and glory’!”

by No 7&1/2 Thu 22 Feb 2018, 11:03 am

Hmm. The back row I fear a bit. Lots of go forward from it but not the most mobile. Scotland will be locking their lips on turnovers. This is a game.which may force me to reconsider how good lawes is at 6 he won't get as big a task for a while.

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