Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

First topic message reminder :

So, Wales have gone with Dan Biggar, Liam Williams & Leigh Halfpenny for the game against Ireland. George North & Gareth Anscombe drop to the bench, and Rhys Patchell & Josh Adams drop out of the match day squad. Not bad decisions in my opinion, though I think I might have had Patchell on the bench over Anscombe... and possibly switched Halfpenny & Williams- I just think Williams offers more threat from fullback than Halfpenny does.

Wales Team:
Halfpenny (Scarlets); L Williams (Saracens), S Williams (Scarlets), Parkes (Scarlets), S Evans (Scarlets); Biggar (Ospreys), G Davies (Scarlets); R Evans (Scarlets), Owens (Scarlets), Lee (Scarlets), Hill (Dragons), AW Jones (Ospreys capt), Shingler (Scarlets), Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements:
Dee (Dragons), W Jones (Scarlets), Francis (Exeter Chiefs), B Davies (Ospreys), Tipuric (Ospreys), A Davies (Scarlets), Anscombe (Blues), North (Northampton).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43127349

Ireland Team:
Kearney; Earls, Farrell, Aki, Stockdale; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best (capt), Porter; James Ryan, Toner; O'Mahony, Leavy, Stander.

Replacements: Cronin, McGrath, John Ryan, Roux, Conan, Marmion, Carbery, McFadden.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43152956

And that's probably come from the fact that getting the tiniest nudge on doesn't result in a penalty anymore, not as efficient a use of energy to shove.

Plus I suspect there's something close to parity in packs this year, no one team has a really especially powerful tight five.

I'm not so sure the death of the old niggly scrum is a good thing. The present incarnation, those no-function ones look sterile.

I don't want our Union game becoming Rugby League version2

mid_gen wrote:And that's probably come from the fact that getting the tiniest nudge on doesn't result in a penalty anymore, not as efficient a use of energy to shove.

Plus I suspect there's something close to parity in packs this year, no one team has a really especially powerful tight five.

Again, that's the game evolution. You have to balance power with mobility in the loose. The really powerful hunks get banjaxed quicker when run around at the speeds the present day game goes at.

I agree that we do not want under powered, static scrums with no contest. If the contest goes out of it then we won’t need the fatties, which means they’ll be replaced by fitties (so to speak), big 6’5” fast running lads, and then there won’t be as many mismatches with the small lads (so less breaks), and in a game that’s already struggling for space, so we might have to reduce the players on each side to create space, maybe to 13 men, so no fatties, big wingers (such is the fashion now), and all of a sudden you have passive scrums and everyone being a similar shape and size = rugby league. No thanks!

Although saying that, I read an article a while back that suggested that scrum problems (collapsing, multiple resets, wasted time, etc.) were not a problem outside the pro game. From the semi-pro level down apparently these problems do not/did not occur. The suggestion being that the pros are f**king around and could easily sort out the scrums and make them stable if they wanted to! Now, this article was at the time when the scrums were a bigger issue than they are now. Back in the Adam Jones era of multiple resets and playing for scrum penalties. But maybe the props have decided to halt the jiggery pokery? Or maybe the refs have been having a word and saying they won’t stand for it anymore (a word pre-game with the coaches perhaps). Or is it that the engagement laws are finally working and the hit has been taken out to such an extent that things are more stable (I don’t think this is the case, personally)?

No Ireland v Scotland thread up yet (I'm not great at constructing them) so forgive me for alluding to the future again even though this is the Ire v Wales thread.
But I was looking at a show reel of Brian O'Driscoll in action, particularly as a young man..... Jesus, eye-watering stuff some of it.  Some say there were better in an Ireland shirt but I don't know and not remotely for me - he was just wonderful to behold when those explosions of grace and pace came.

Anyway, I was looking at him and I kept thinking to myself that Joe Schmidt is missing something massive here in not giving Larmour more of this 6N.  I think it's much, much too caution when you think O'Driscoll played International before he played for Leinster.  First International then Province!
Larmour probably has the most potential magic that I've seen in an Irish player since O'Driscoll retired.  Plays the same way, with instincts just clicking and him going wherever they take him.  I'm not so sure his confidence levels are being treated the right way in giving him so small a part to play and then returning him to his Province.  A player like him just has to be dropped in and given the settle down time to begin to purr.  Now - not later.  Now is when he should be given a spot.

carpet baboon wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Are we not allowed to discuss stuff like this?  

Nope.

That entire wordpress article isn't a discussion. It's a the ref didn't let us compete so that's why we lost cry baby tantrum.
It's worded ever so politely, but his final line gives it away for what it is.

I said from the start that Jackson didn't ref Ireland at the breakdown - and thought it was pretty obvious by observing but some stats also back it up. The fact that Shingler and Navidi, the two best flankers in the tournament were rendered obsolete tells its own story... so I'll ask again, is Glen Jackson dating Joe's niece? She's a cute little thing I tell ye.

Another thing, the English are clearly the worst for having a ref didn't let us compete so that's why we lost cry baby tantrum. Too up yourselves to think that teams can compete with England .

So Mikey, it was the ref that beat you as he cheated?
And not sure why your bringing the English into this, I'm Irish discussing an Ireland Vs Wales game, and the tiny percentage of "fans" who believe he that the IRFU are head of a giant conspiracy to Always do over the welsh

My mistake, were you really offended? I'm not saying the ref beat us, Ireland beat us. GJ just didn't ref Ireland at the breakdown in what I remember as the most one-sided breakdown show ever. \
Not sure I've met anyone who thinks that, apart from one poster who was only on here temporarily.

carpet baboon wrote:ooh and your assertion that the Welsh flankers are the best in the tournament is just your opinion. I'm sure an argument could be made for the Scottish lads, or even Dan leavy, who outplayed his Welsh opposite number at the weekend (but I suppose that was only down to the ref?)

My point is that the two flankers who have been the best since the AI series were rendered obsolete, that doesn't seem fishy to you? I rate Leavy highly, and all Leinster flankers I rate highly. The Scottish lads? Hamish Watson definitely - all these guys are up there with the likes of Shingler and Navidi

mid_gen wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Talking about set piece, I have noticed that it's becoming rare that one scrum dominates another, they all seem quite even.
Any big ugly forward want to explain? I'm a handsome back so don't get the dark arts of scrummaging

Referees have been instructed to keep play going. If the ball is available they will tell the 9 to play it, rather than sit around waiting for the penalty lottery.

Bout bloody time too.

Anyone in the front row can hook, and No8 can reach into the scrum so long as they stay bound?

There's new breakdown rules coming in over here. It doesn't seem like they've been previously trialled in Europe as I haven't noticed a difference. The incoming rules make it very difficult to compete for the ball.

mikey_dragon wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Are we not allowed to discuss stuff like this?  

Nope.

That entire wordpress article isn't a discussion. It's a the ref didn't let us compete so that's why we lost cry baby tantrum.
It's worded ever so politely, but his final line gives it away for what it is.

I said from the start that Jackson didn't ref Ireland at the breakdown - and thought it was pretty obvious by observing but some stats also back it up. The fact that Shingler and Navidi, the two best flankers in the tournament were rendered obsolete tells its own story... so I'll ask again, is Glen Jackson dating Joe's niece? She's a cute little thing I tell ye.

Another thing, the English are clearly the worst for having a ref didn't let us compete so that's why we lost cry baby tantrum. Too up yourselves to think that teams can compete with England .

So Mikey, it was the ref that beat you as he cheated?
And not sure why your bringing the English into this, I'm Irish discussing an Ireland Vs Wales game, and the tiny percentage of "fans" who believe he that the IRFU are head of a giant conspiracy to Always do over the welsh

My mistake, were you really offended? I'm not saying the ref beat us, Ireland beat us. GJ just didn't ref Ireland at the breakdown in what I remember as the most one-sided breakdown show ever. \
Not sure I've met anyone who thinks that, apart from one poster who was only on here temporarily.

carpet baboon wrote:ooh and your assertion that the Welsh flankers are the best in the tournament is just your opinion. I'm sure an argument could be made for the Scottish lads, or even Dan leavy, who outplayed his Welsh opposite number at the weekend (but I suppose that was only down to the ref?)

My point is that the two flankers who have been the best since the AI series were rendered obsolete, that doesn't seem fishy to you? I rate Leavy highly, and all Leinster flankers I rate highly. The Scottish lads? Hamish Watson definitely - all these guys are up there with the likes of Shingler and Navidi

A lot of Ireland games are one sided at the breakdown. Rucking is a strength of the Irish side so dominance there is consistent with the majority of Ireland games since we lost to Argentina in the WC. Ireland have dominated England and NZ at the breakdown with similar possession stats as the Wales game.