Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

First topic message reminder :

Here’s an easy one. Who was the first European rugby union to win all tests in a tour series in the Southern Hemisphere?

Whilst Ireland's playing history - home and away - against South Africa and New Zealand was littered with one failure after another in the amateur days, surprisingly their record against Australia is pockmarked with wins at home and on the road, albeit matches were held less frequently in the BSE - Baggy Shorts Era.

Not many people might know this, but Ireland has had 4 proper rugby tours of Australia - in 1967, 1979, 1994, and 1999. By proper, I mean old-style tours involving matches against provincial union or state teams as well as one or two test matches against the Wallabies. And rather surprisingly, Ireland have won two tours and lost two.

Ireland’s fifth tour of Australia begins with the first of three tests on 9 June and it promises to settle a few scores, mark the overall ledger up in favour of one, and probably create a few bragging and bagging rights along the way for fans and commentators.

Australia won the first two tests between the countries in 1927 and 1947 in Lansdowne Road in Dublin. On the Australian tour of Britain, Ireland and France in 1958, Ireland got their first test win on the board. Over the next 20 years, the teams met 7 times, with Ireland winning six of them, including their first-ever away test in Sydney as part of their first 6-game tour of Australia in 1967.

Ireland's last two test wins in Australia were those of the famous 1979 tour when the Irish team had their most successful winning patch, playing 8 games, including two tests, and losing just once against local representative team, Sydney.

Ollie Campbell, Mike Gibson, Terry Kennedy, Paul McNaughton, Tony Ward, Willie Duggan, Moss Keane, Fergus Slattery were some of the more well-known names on that tour. Tony Ward was the star name playing outhalf for Ireland. He had been named European Player of the Year for the second year running. All the running assumptions were that he’d play in a few of the run-up games and start the first test at the helm. A few days beforehand, the Irish manager and coach thought different and, inexplicably to nearly everyone, picked Campbell to start.

Across the two tests, Ireland scored 36 points with Campbell kicking 28 of them bringing his total to 60 points for the tour. He was named player of the tour. Ward, by his own admission in his autobiography, never played as well again and laid blame squarely at the manager and coach’s door for how they handled what became known in Irish rugby as ‘The Decision’.

Campbell returned home the hero of the hour by helping to claim the first individual tour victory in all tests by a northern team in the Southern Hemisphere. (France had won a test match but drawn the other test on tours of SA in 1958 and Oz 1972.) After the tour, Ireland’s overall win record stood at 6 wins to Australia’s 3.

Campbell and the team were cheered to the rafters. Ireland went on to win the Five Nations in 1982, shared it with France in 1983 and won it outright again in 1985. And then the curtain came down. And the roof started to fall in.

Two further 2-test tours against Australia followed in 1994 and 1999 - Ireland lost all the test matches and most of the midweek games against ACT, Sydney, and New South Wales amongst others.

Those two tours formed part of what is probably the lowest period in Irish rugby. Ireland played 11 tests against Australia, 8 versus New Zealand and 6 against South Africa between 1980 and 2002 - they lost every game. Despite their initial successes in the 1980s, their record in that period against Five/Six Nations opponents was not much better - 3 wins from 24 against France, 7 from 24 vs both England and Scotland, and even losing 3 from 8 against Italy.

From 2001 onwards, when professionalism finally took hold, and Irish provinces entered the Celtic League, the fortunes of the Irish provinces and test side changed - first under Eddie O'Sullivan, winning a test again against Australia in 2002 and for the first time against South Africa (2004). They moved from being regular wooden spooners in the 90's to competing at the top in the new Six Nations. Then they finally achieved a second Grand Slam in 2009 with Declan Kidney, 61 years after their first. They remained unbeaten that year finishing with a 15-10 win against Lions victors and the reigning Tri-Nations champions, South Africa.

Of course, after Ireland finally won again in 2002, Australia promptly won the next four tests. Another Irish win in 2006 was followed by two Wallaby wins and a draw. Then came the RWC pool match in 2011 with both teams meeting on neutral NZ territory. Australia ran into Stephen Ferris and Sean O’Brien for the first time and Will Genia found himself being picked up and carried backwards whilst his team-mates were held up time and again in the famous choke tackle and eventually out of the game. Australia won the next test in 2013, and Ireland won the next one a year later, and the next one again in 2016.

Nonetheless, Australia continue to have the upper hand - 21 wins to Ireland’s 11 (and a sister-smooching draw). But Ireland is determined to close the gap further.

So now it’s the turn of Joe Schmidt to bring the Ireland squad down-under for a three-test series in June. Expectations are high with Ireland’s recent Grand Slam win and recent record against the Wallabies.

Except they haven’t won in Oz for 39 years.

Their last away loss was in Brisbane in June 2010 as part of a NZ/Aus Tour. On that day, newcomer outhalf, Johnny Sexton, kicked all of Ireland’s 15 points in the first half, to Australia’s 16 points. But the Declan Kidney-coached team, off the back of a 97-point shellacking from the All Blacks and NZ Maori in the previous weeks, and down a few key players, couldn’t overtake the Wallabies as Giteau notched another couple of penalties to finish them off - 22-15.

Eight years on from Brisbane, both teams are in different places and ranking. Cheika is hoping to fashion a team that can compete and win in the Rugby Championship. He needs a decent scalp on his belt going into that battle. Schmidt has the 6N in his back pocket and a team that is beginning to hum nicely with a mix of old heads and young hearts running a new 12-match streak. Ireland are the current holders of the Lansdowne Cup - the trophy fought between the two sides since 1999.

England, Scotland & Wales have announced squads with development and player rest on their minds as coaches seek to add depth to their squads for RWC 2019. Irish pundits and fans have been making similar noises querying whether players such as Sexton, Murray, Furlong, Stander should rest up on their summer hols and let the younger Turks get more time and experience. Schmidt has faced this before, imposed through injury rather than selection by choice, when he brought a relatively raw squad to South Africa and gave much needed game time to some new faces including Furlong, Henderson, Roux, Stander, and Marmion.

Schmidt will want to win the series, but he needs to give more time to the newbies. He’s got a few injuries such as Henderson, O’Brien, Farrell, Best but still has plenty of choice this time around and all of them hungry for some tasty wallaby.

Ireland Squad (Summer Tour 2018, Australia)

FORWARDS (18)

Tadhg Beirne (Scarlets) uncapped
Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 7 caps
Sean Cronin (St Mary's College/Leinster) 61 caps
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 23 caps
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 78 caps
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 38 caps
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 3 caps
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster) 9 caps
Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster) 47 caps
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 20 caps
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 47 caps
Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 7 caps
Quinn Roux (Galwegians/Connacht) 5 caps
James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 8 caps
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 13 caps
Niall Scannell (Munster) 4 caps
CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 23 caps
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 58 caps

BACKS (14)
Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 7 caps
Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster) uncapped
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster) 10 caps
Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 6 caps
John Cooney (Terenure College RFC/Ulster) 1 cap
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 67 caps
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 33 caps
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 83 caps
Jordan Larmour (St Mary's College/Leinster) 3 caps
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 21 caps
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 64 caps
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 13 caps
Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 73 caps
Jacob Stockdale (Ballynahnch/Ulster) 9 caps

IRELAND SUMMER TOUR 2018 FIXTURES

Saturday 9th June, 2018
Australia v IRELAND
Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane, KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL)

Saturday 16th June, 2018
Australia v IRELAND
AAMI Park, Melbourne, KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL)

Saturday 23rd June, 2018
Australia v IRELAND
Allianz Park, Sydney KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL)


Ireland win the series 2-1 with the final test in Sydney ending 20-16.

Ireland got lucky there. Aussies the better side and Ireland probably should have had a few more yellows. Not a great game and lots of mistakes.

Eirebilly, your posting is a bit one-eyed!

Well done Ireland!

Cyril wrote:Ireland got lucky there. Aussies the better side and Ireland probably should have had a few more yellows. Not a great game and lots of mistakes.

Eirebilly, your posting is a bit one-eyed!

Out of interest, in what way do you think the team that dominated possession, dominated territory and should've been a man up for at least 20 minutes more were the worse team?

Good win in the end.
Thought we deserved it.
Made it difficult for ourselves in some cases.
Reffing inconsistent.

A win in the end. Onto Sydney.

Engine#4 wrote:Good lad ebop don't let it completely ruin your weekend!

Don’t reckon it will

Ireland played well, good team, deserved the win. Can see why they are 6N champions and the #2 ranked team. They got desperate at the end there with some cynical play but they pulled off the win.

I was massively impressed with POM and Ryan today. POM was brilliant in the lineout but his work at the breakdown not only neutralised Pocock and Hooper but out did them. That said, Pocock did not have a bad game at all as he made some very crucial turnovers.

Ryan, well he just goes from strength to strength. He was all over the park today and everything about him screams natural leader. I think he will be Ireland Captain after the RWC.

JmD wrote:

Cyril wrote:Ireland got lucky there. Aussies the better side and Ireland probably should have had a few more yellows. Not a great game and lots of mistakes.

Eirebilly, your posting is a bit one-eyed!

Out of interest, in what way do you think the team that dominated possession, dominated territory and should've been a man up for at least 20 minutes more were the worse team?

Squirrel hasn’t the capacity to think. Don’t bother him

Good win for Ireland, even if they left it closer than it should have been. They should take the series next week.

Just watching the replay and can't for the life of me see how the TMO disallowed that Irish try as a knock-on ... luckily they scored closer to the posts shortly after but it does make you wonder.

Great win Ireland!

eirebilly wrote:I was massively impressed with POM and Ryan today. POM was brilliant in the lineout but his work at the breakdown not only neutralised Pocock and Hooper but out did them. That said, Pocock did not have a bad game at all as he made some very crucial turnovers.

Ryan, well he just goes from strength to strength. He was all over the park today and everything about him screams natural leader. I think he will be Ireland Captain after the RWC.

It was definitely one of Poms better games. For me he is way too hit and miss in his performances. You just dont get the consistency from Pom that you get for other players.

Cyril wrote:Ireland got lucky there. Aussies the better side and Ireland probably should have had a few more yellows. Not a great game and lots of mistakes.

Eirebilly, your posting is a bit one-eyed!

I cant imagine too many people think Australia were the better side in that test. Your jealousy of all things Irish really cheers me up Cyril.

eirebilly wrote:I think that the scrum should have taken place there, the knock on happened before the half time hooter.

The ref was determined to give Oz the rub of the green. I reckon with a fair ref it might have been a 20 point win from Ireland. Hopefully Gauzere will even things up in the Sydney test.

No penalties or warnings in the lead up to the Healy yellow and penalty try which wasnt anything the Aussies werent getting away without penalty on Irish mauls. Warning after warning the Aussies managed to dodge yellows for things Ireland were getting yellows for. Real SH bias at play.

For these tours like the latest Lions tour there really should be two NH refs min.

Ya gotta adapt and neutralise refs if need be by upping everything performance-wise and making their iffy judgements meaningless to the overall result.

Ireland will have to be aware of everything for the final game, most especially the need from the get go to impose themselves like it was a World Cup final on foreign soil.  The dice is stacked against you so you go to plan B.  Plan B is always to play harder than is perhaps required to win and play it for 85 straight minutes.  No let offs or little rester periods of down-tempo.  That's when your 'awayness' can bite you in the bum and playing catch up becomes a torture.
Ireland have to have the mindset to play their most clinical game of the year.  Bigger than the 6N, bigger than anything.  They have to look on it as an opportunity to join up all their good bits of the season and put them in one single game of complete dominance.  Then off to their holidays - broken, busted and out for six months with serious injuries... - but that's the price you pay for clinging to the standards this team has been setting for itself.  Sacrifice for the cause.

Collapse2005 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I was massively impressed with POM and Ryan today. POM was brilliant in the lineout but his work at the breakdown not only neutralised Pocock and Hooper but out did them. That said, Pocock did not have a bad game at all as he made some very crucial turnovers.

Ryan, well he just goes from strength to strength. He was all over the park today and everything about him screams natural leader. I think he will be Ireland Captain after the RWC.

It was definitely one of Poms better games. For me he is way too hit and miss in his performances. You just dont get the consistency from Pom that you get for other players.

Feics sake guns give it a rest he has probably been our most consistent performer all year along with Murray , Sexton, Ryan and Furlong. Leadership wise with Sexton has been impressive. It’s a pity we can’t get 80 mins out of him because the difference with him on the pitch or off is very obvious.

No he really isnt. Where was he last week when the Aussies were dominating at the breakdow?. For me he is one of our most hit and miss players.

SecretFly wrote:Ya gotta adapt and neutralise refs if need be by upping everything performance-wise and making their iffy judgements meaningless to the overall result.

Ireland will have to be aware of everything for the final game, most especially the need from the get go to impose themselves like it was a World Cup final on foreign soil.  The dice is stacked against you so you go to plan B.  Plan B is always to play harder than is perhaps required to win and play it for 85 straight minutes.  No let offs or little rester periods of down-tempo.  That's when your 'awayness' can bite you in the bum and playing catch up becomes a torture.
Ireland have to have the mindset to play their most clinical game of the year.  Bigger than the 6N, bigger than anything.  They have to look on it as an opportunity to join up all their good bits of the season and put them in one single game of complete dominance.  Then off to their holidays - broken, busted and out for six months with serious injuries... - but that's the price you pay for clinging to the standards this team has been setting for itself.  Sacrifice for the cause.

Thats all pie in the sky sort of stuff. The reality is refs have a huge influence in rugby. Australia are a good side at home they dont need the help.

It's pie in the sky realism... that's what it is.  

Life happens and for as long as life happens refs that are human will continue to be human - plus they'll also have a propensity to interpret rules differently depending on what style of rugby they are familiar with reffing the most.

If Ireland comes home crying about spilt milk and dodgy reffing having lost a winnable series to a very good Australia then we'll be just another sub-standard moaning team again - joining the usual crowd of NH sides coughing up excuses about why we were the better side but just didn't get the breaks.  
Coaches have to do their homework on refs as much as opposition players.  Schmidt tends to be good enough at it.  Ireland have to play their most complete game of the season to ensure the ref doesn't have the influence you worry about. Moaning about the ref post-game won't do for me.

Fly, I am a great believer in teams doing their background work on referee's and even adjusting to them on the field. That said, I cannot see how Ireland could have adjusted to the referee yesterday. He was simply inconsistent to the point where you could assume he was biased towards the home team overly so.

Sure, Ireland won but on a day when the referee was consistent in his rulings then I believe Ireland would have won by more.

This is not ref bashing as far as I am concerned, it is highlighting a rather very bad and inconsistent performance.

France and England have both experienced the same inconsistency in rulings on their tours.

I'm talking about the third game, Billy.  The decider - winner takes all.

Even if you, I, Collapse or anybody else thinks that bias has reared its head... that doesn't change the requirement to win that third game.  So how do you win a third game that might tend to be heavily influenced by perhaps 'homey'-centric refs.  Well, you can't fight with the refs on the field.... that's not going to help.  You can't run after them calling them out as being biased.
You have to do the only thing you can do...play as clinically accurate and potent as you can.  Try to cut down the error count dramatically so that you don't give a dodgy ref easy choices.
You don't just hoist a white flag and say the tide will be against us and it'll be tough to get the win abroad in the SH.  You have to do your work to attempt to be more clinical and relentless than you perhaps might need to be in a 6N at home in Europe with mostly European refs.... who let's be blunt about it, often get told directly how biased they can be by visiting SH sides in Autumn.
You have to play Billy.  No excuses - just play better than you're required to play in the NH.  That cuts the exceptional NH side out of the ordinary pack. If Ireland lose it'll probably be because Australia played better. But even if Ireland lose on a few dodgy ref decisions, it'll mean we still don't have the team psychology to take ourselves to the next level at WC time.

Fly, I get where ye are coming from and agree. I am more making the point that the referee's in these matches should be looked at for their performances.
This is not something that only Ireland have experienced on this tour but France and England as well. It has been glaringly obvious.
Just looking at the Ireland game yesterday, I have no qualms at all with the penalties and sanctions placed against them, they were the correct calls. I just felt that the referee was inconsistent in the same circumstances with regards to the Australian infringements. This kind of inconsistency cannot be prepared for or even countered on the field. This should not be up to teams, this should be for the board to look at and counter as a part of educating referee's.

Like it or not, referee's can have an influence on individual games and series'.

Im with Billy. The SH refs seem particularly prone to SH bias.

Its like someone cloned Wayne Barnes and gave him a Kiwi accent and attitude.

Collapse2005 wrote:No he really isnt. Where was he last week when the Aussies were dominating at the breakdow?. For me he is one of our most hit and miss players.

You’re right because he spent most of last week trying to cover for Jordi who was very poor. Same yesterday after Leavy went off. I’m glad you realise it yourself.

Ireland won despite the referee. That will reinforce with them just how difficult it is to beat the SH teams to take the ref out of the equation.
They have come on from the loss to NZ when Peyper refused to penalise the All Blacks for foul play. O'Mahoney had a great game in contrast to last week, but he was unusually quiet to the ref. - Best was missed in that regard.

Collapse2005 wrote:Im with Billy. The SH refs seem particularly prone to SH bias.

There was the same sort of talk down here after the last time the Wallabies played in Ireland. That time the all NH refs only managed to find three penalties for the home team but plenty against us. Three penalties in a tight game with various Irish players having to play out of position due to injuries. It was surprising.

boomeranga wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Im with Billy. The SH refs seem particularly prone to SH bias.

There was the same sort of talk down here after the last time the Wallabies played in Ireland.  That time the all NH refs only managed to find three penalties for the home team but plenty against us.  Three penalties in a tight game with various Irish players having to play out of position due to injuries.  It was surprising.

Seems ref moaning is a permanent post test fixture these days. Its ... everywhere.....

The Irish never complain about the ref though......

Taylorman wrote:

boomeranga wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Im with Billy. The SH refs seem particularly prone to SH bias.

There was the same sort of talk down here after the last time the Wallabies played in Ireland.  That time the all NH refs only managed to find three penalties for the home team but plenty against us.  Three penalties in a tight game with various Irish players having to play out of position due to injuries.  It was surprising.

Seems ref moaning is a permanent post test fixture these days. Its ... everywhere.....

Moaning Taylorman! How's tricks down under and upside down like?

LordDowlais wrote:The Irish never complain about the ref though......

And Sir Lord Dowlais, Commander of Welsh Expeditionary Fan Forces, never misses a trick in chasing down Irish-centric reftastic threads to drop in his regular-as-clockwork complaints about everything 'Irish'.

You must be in Pro14 Pre-training already Lord?  Don't you never take no holiday?  The old Cruciate won't take much more pressure, Captain.  You'll have to go out of warp drive sometime soon to do needed repairs.

Fantastic performance, best of the season so far. I didn't think Ireland could turn the series around despite having chances to win last week, they just looked off the pace physically in that first test.

To come from 7-0 down to really dominate most of the game showed this side is the real deal. POM and Furlong were incredible but across the board that was a big step up.

The one concern is that despite all the possession and territorial dominance Australia outscored us 3 tries to 2 and could have won in the end. That said there was a bi of disruption with the subs - Herring missing his first throw in and Porter struggling in the scrum.

This sets up for a really exciting series decider and Ireland will need to be much more clinical to win the series but I think they will be.

I know it's all could'a should'a but they could'a had four I suppose - tries that is. Take into account it's in Australia against a hard bitten Cheika chewed up side, 3 tries to 2 doesn't look too bad. A little swing of luck and ref compliance and that could easily change if Ireland keep the breakdown rage going.... the pace of those surges was breath-taking at times.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:No he really isnt. Where was he last week when the Aussies were dominating at the breakdow?. For me he is one of our most hit and miss players.

You’re right because he spent most of last week trying to cover for Jordi who was very poor. Same yesterday after Leavy went off. I’m glad you realise it yourself.

I agree Jordi is a big step down from Leavy but Jordi is our 4th choice 7. Pom is currently our 1st choice 6 and captain. Where was he in the 1st test when we were getting hammered at the breakdown?

Keeping our B side company until the main side turned up?

Even the Aussies knew there was a different game coming from Ireland in the second test when the Irish mainstay starters actually started.

Well done to my paddy brothers - that was a humdinger.

Any changes for this week?
Stockdale back in?
Henderson?
Beirne to start?

carpet baboon wrote:Any changes for this week?
Stockdale back in?
Henderson?
Beirne to start?

Stockdale in for Conway, who I think was unlucky and Haylett-Petty was lucky not to see a card. If he had half a$$ed going for the ball in the air the way he did on Conway for the try he'd have been in trouble. See too many players getting hurt in similar circumstances as that now, almost like the tackler knows they cant stop them but try to leave a little something on the attacker

Beirne should come in at 8, the Aussies will step things up at the breakdown, I think POM will need extra help there this week and Beirne is the man for that and hopefully it'll allow Leavy some opportunity too. Henderson and Herring are two players who like to disrupt things at the breakdown too. With Genia out, Australia though won't be as quick to get on the front foot so could change Joes thinking going into the game.

Will Joe risk resting Murray and testing out other 9s?

marty2086 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Any changes for this week?
Stockdale back in?
Henderson?
Beirne to start?

Will Joe risk resting Murray and testing out other 9s?

NO! The momentum has been set after the false start. He needs to use a fine needle now so as not to upset the surge. It's better for confidence of the entire squad now just to go win the series convincingly. As Kearney said, last game of the season. Player will feel they can give it their all - and they'll have to. But the players that are now heated up to the challenge, and I'm sure Murray is, shouldn't be tampered with now too much.

I was thinking more about putting the other 9s into the fire, do we really want to risk going into a RWC without a backup 9 who is battle tested? Is there a bigger test available than with a series win on the line?

Oh I'd usually be of the same mind marty... but there is just too much at stake now for confidence levels going into Autumn and Australia at home with a hungry Cheika telling his troops to go out and kill....... 6N next year should be the sacrificial competition to genuinely give big games to alternative nines and such. I think.

I'd go with the same halfback combo but this time try and get Cooney more than 90 seconds on the field (and in the right position).

I can't see as many changes being made this unless injury enforced, except probably Henderson to come back in.

marty2086 wrote:I was thinking more about putting the other 9s into the fire, do we really want to risk going into a RWC without a backup 9 who is battle tested? Is there a bigger test available than with a series win on the line?

He might bring Marmion into the second row but I expect Murray to play the full 80 at 9.

I thought one of the biggest differences between the two weeks was Ringrose in the backline. He manages that wide channel so much better than most other options (possibly Farrell was as good as him when fit back in the 6n). As soon as the Oz team didn't have the throw wide option available to make ground their attack was pushed back in towards the likes of POM/Leavy and the Irish pack that really stepped up in the performance.

Didn't like the lazy knee into Conway when he was scoring his try. That's happening across a lot of matches the last 2-3 seasons. It has a higher probability of damaging a player than aerial contact but isn't en-vogue enough for WR to care about it.

Pointless only giving Cooney <2 minutes playing experience.

Beirne needs gametime. Question is where. Would Joe ever go full f.u. mode in a lock/br lineup? Say Ryan and Henderson at lock with Beirne, POM and Leavy in the backrow. Put them out on the field for 55 minutes and just mess up every breakdown, every maul, every lineout, grind down pocock and hooper, then switch in toner and stander/Jordi to attack off set phase ball.

SecretFly wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

boomeranga wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Im with Billy. The SH refs seem particularly prone to SH bias.

There was the same sort of talk down here after the last time the Wallabies played in Ireland.  That time the all NH refs only managed to find three penalties for the home team but plenty against us.  Three penalties in a tight game with various Irish players having to play out of position due to injuries.  It was surprising.

Seems ref moaning is a permanent post test fixture these days. Its ... everywhere.....

Moaning Taylorman!  How's tricks down under and upside down like?

Not a lot different, they moan a lot this way as well. Hard to fathom how both sets of fans think the other side was favoured by refereeing in the Oz Irish game. Go figure. Boredom perhaps?

Don't think many on here think the ref favoured the Wallabies per se but he warned them they would get carded for repeated infringements more than once including twice deliberately knocking the ball on yet once McGrath did it, it's a yellow. Just a lack of real consistency and following through on what they say they will do

There is something to be said of how commentators influence thinking. It's a penalty if it's a deliberate knock on. From there where it happens and he context of the match affects if it's a yellow etc. I think that ireland were a touch hard done to on occasions but that wasn't one of them.

Sounds like there will be changes.

I wonder if Healy will miss out with McGrath starting and Kilcoyne on the bench?

I'd bring Henderson back in for Beirne - Toner was excellent so not sure who I would start alongside Ryan. Bring Cronin and Marmion back in.

I would drop Henshaw to the bench for Bundi aki and pick Stockdale at 11.

I wouldn't be for experimenting, we need our strongest 23 out there but within that some guys have played a lot of rugby so will need to freshen things up.

This series is there to be won but will need the biggest performance yet to win it.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I thought one of the biggest differences between the two weeks was Ringrose in the backline.  

Ringrose was excellent defensively. I think moving Keith Earls over to that side was made a big difference though. Australia targetted Stockdale in the first Test. I saw some comments relayed from a former Ulster defence coach (who is now with the Rebels) that Stockdale was targetted with high balls and balls in behind him because he is slow to turn. Earls is a much smaller man and is more mobile (also excellent in the air) and provides a lot more at the breakdown.

Stockdale is a great strike runner who would be effective against most teams, with the exception of Australia who can better Ireland in the air. I think Lamour was excellent when he came on for Conway and he has got a fair bit of time over the two tests due to injury. I think if Conway is fit, he will start on the right wing, with Earls on the left.

I think changes will be minimal. I don't know how you could drop anyone from that team that won the 2nd test. James Ryan is some player - I think he will stay on with maybe Henderson (if he is fully fit) with Toner on the bench. Leavy to start with Beirne on the bench as backrow backup.

I don't know if anyone heard Brian O'Driscoll on Off the Ball talking about the Ireland scrumhalfs. He said that Marmion's pass is too slow for international rugby (and spoke about how Stringer last so long because of his fast pass). He ranked John Cooney 2nd with a fast pass and Luke McGrath 3rd. He also said that Conor Murray is Ireland's move valuable player!

Sin é wrote:

I think changes will be minimal. I don't know how you could drop anyone from that team that won the 2nd test. James Ryan is some player - I think he will stay on with maybe Henderson (if he is fully fit) with Toner on the bench. Leavy to start with Beirne on the bench as backrow backup.

Drop certainly not but fatigue is definitely and issue and developing depth. The players on the bench need to be almost better than the starting XV these days.

Winning the series is the primary goal but in terms of the RWC we need to be able to do it with more than 23 players and trust whoever is picked.

Agree on Ryan, I thought we'd never a player with the presence of O'Connell again so soon but this guys is super human. He was a collossus in the U-20s but the way he has just moved up is incredible. Leavy too has really impressed me and been unlucky on this tour.

If Beirne can bring his Scarlet's performances to this level and Hendo can stay fit that is serious quality in the second row.

If we had stronger competition at TH and hooker I'd say we would have the best forward pack in international rugby.