Edinburgh vs Ulster, 6th April 2018

Edinburgh vs Ulster
Champions Cup or Bust
BT Murrayfield
19:35
6th April
BBC Alba

Ref: Nigel Owens (WRU)
Assistant Refs: Wayne Davies (WRU), David Sutherland (Scotland)
TMO: Sean Brickell (WRU)

https://www.pro14rugby.org/overview/?FixGuid=17EU5618

Edinburgh

1) Jordan Lay
2) Stuart McInally (C)
3) Simon Berghan
4) Ben Toolis
5) Grant Gilchrist
6) Magnus Bradbury
7) Jamie Ritchie
8) Bill Mata

9) SHC
10) Duncan Weir
11) DVDM
12) Phil Burleigh
13) Mark Bennett
14) Dougie Fife
15) Blair Kinghorn

Cochrane, Sutherland, Nel, Carmichael, CDP, Kennedy, JVDW, Dean

Ulster

1) Andy Warwick
2) Rory Best (C)
3) Tom O'Toole
4) Matthew Dalton
5) Iain Henderson
6) Matthew Rea
7) Nick Timoney
8) Jean Deysel

9) John Cooney
10) Johnny McPhillips
11) Jacob Stockdale
12) Stuart McCloskey
13) Darren Cave
14) Louis Ludik
15) Charles Piutau

Herring, O'Hagan, Ah You, O'Connor, Reidy, Shanahan, Curtis, Bowe

It is probably not over exaggerating things to say that this is the most important game of the season for both teams. If Ulster lose their playoff hopes are over and will have to get through the Champions Cup playoff to qualify for next season. If Edinburgh win their top 3 place is secured and the pressure is off to push Scarlets and Glasgow all the way for a 2nd place finish.  it is not all or nothing for Edinburgh as they could lose and still finish third, but it will put huge pressure on  the last 2 games.

Ulster are going to be well up for this and will bring in their superstars - I can see them causing us a lot of problems, much more so than the reverse leg a few weeks ago.

I think Cockers should have rotated the team against the Blues as we looked very stale and uninspired. Bring in some players that have been chomping at the bit to play recently. I can't see him making many changes for this game but I think he should make a couple:

1 Lay
2 McInally
3 Berghan (Nel hasn't been great since he came back)
4 Toolis
5 Gilchrist
6 Ritchie
7 Hardie
8 Mata

9 Anyone but Fowles
10 Weir (but he'll pick VDW)
11 VDM
12 Burleigh
13 Bennett
14 Fife
15 Kinghorn

Subs - Marfo, Ford (he's fit again), Nel, McKenzie, Bradbury, anyone but Fowles, Weir/VDW, Dean

Can we have a proper 9 on the pitch for Edinburgh please?

I think this one will go to Ulster. Edinburgh starting to look tired and its a must win for Ulster

Is Burleigh fit? I missed the weekend's game. Shiel to bench?

Agree with the backline (even after Kinghorn's defensive lapse). The pack I generally agree with except for the LH spot.

Would like to see Sutherland or Marfo get the start if healthy. Sutherland and Marfo are young Scots with international aspirations. These are the games they need exposure to and they are as good as Lay is right now.

Im really not so sure we will win this. We dont really have many big guns to bring in. Rory is really the only one who didnt play v Cardiff. Its a big game for Ulster but i have to say it looks likely Edinburgh will take this one

Depends very much which Edinburgh you get? Last week we reverted back to the old Edinburgh. Giving away tries and never looking like scoring any.

This is no longer a big game for Edinburgh they have 3rd place in the bag.
Ulster are 13 points behind with 4 games left.
They may well not finish above Edinburgh even if they win 3 of the 4, including this win.
The current Ulster team are nowhere near good enough to win 3, let alone 4 of their remaining games
That would also assume Edinburgh lose both their other games

The reality is it is a head to head between Ulster and Treviso for the play off
Treviso have 2 probably wins (home to Dragons and Zebre) and a almost certain defeat away to Leinster
Reality is Ulster need to win 2 games minimum just to finish in front of Treviso, Edinburgh will be 3rd

RDW may be Cockerill in disguise

And edinburgh fans can breath again seeing how Fowles isn't in the 23....

Ulster

(15-9): C Piutau, L Ludik; D Cave, S McCloskey, J Stockdale; J McPhillips, J Cooney;
(1-8): A Warwick, R Best (Capt), T O'Toole, M Dalton, I Henderson, M Rea, N Timoney, J Deysel;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, T O'Hagan, R Ah You, A O'Connor, S Reidy, D Shanahan, A Curtis, T Bowe

O'Toole, Dalton, O'Hagan, Curtis - 4 younsters joining the two regulars Timoney and Rea good to see they are our future
Our made of glass Saffer, Deysel, returns but our totally useless Saffer, VdeM, has clearly disappeared without trace.
A candidate for our worst ever permanent contract signing

Actually not a bad side - we may just have a chance

Head Coach Richard Cockerill has named a revamped half-back pairing of Sam Hidalgo-Clyne and Duncan Weir ahead of tomorrow night’s pivotal Guinness PRO14 encounter with Ulster at BT Murrayfield (Friday 6 April, kick-off 7.35pm).

Their inclusion is part of six changes made to the side that faced Cardiff Blues in last weekend’s European Challenge Cup Quarter-Final.

As Edinburgh look to secure a place in the Guinness PRO14 Final Series for the first time in the club’s history, Cockerill has called on his side to rise to the occasion, and said: “We need to play as well as we can tomorrow night and do what we’ve done well up to this point.

“We’ve never qualified for the Guinness PRO14 Final Series, so we have a little bit of pressure on ourselves to get that right, so we can prove that we are capable of that.

"We’ve got to learn what that feels like and how to cope with that. The best way to do that is to experience it.

"There is no doubt that we are capable of winning these games. We just need to get it right and go back to our basics around both our physicality and mentality.

We have some expectations within the playing group. What I expect is 100% commitment and I want us to put our best game out on the field, which we have done more often than not.

An unchanged back-three sees Blair Kinghorn named at fullback alongside wingers Duhan van der Merwe and Dougie Fife.

In the midfield, Mark Bennett is joined by experienced centre Phil Burleigh, who makes his first start since January.

The inclusion of tighthead prop Simon Berghan is the only alteration to an otherwise unchanged front row, as Stuart McInally – named captain on the day – and Jordan Lay keep their places upfront.

Ben Toolis returns to the starting XV to partner Grant Gilchrist in the second row, whilst Jamie Ritchie is named in the back-row alongside Magnus Bradbury – who makes his 50th appearance for the club – and Bill Mata.




Edinburgh team to face Ulster in the Guinness PRO14 at BT Murrayfield on Friday 6 April (kick-off 7.35pm) – live on BBC ALBA.

15. Blair Kinghorn (61)



14. Dougie Fife (103)

13. Mark Bennett (8)

12. Phil Burleigh (71)

11. Duhan van der Merwe (14)



10. Duncan Weir (31)

9. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (104)



1. Jordan Lay (8)

2. Stuart McInally (116) CAPTAIN

3. Simon Berghan (45)

4. Ben Toolis (84)

5. Grant Gilchrist (116)

6. Magnus Bradbury (49)

7. Jamie Ritchie (45)

8. Bill Mata (34)

Replacements: 16. Neil Cochrane (72) 17. Rory Sutherland (62) 18. WP Nel (113) 19. Lewis Carmichael (29) 20. Cornell du Preez (101) 21. Sean Kennedy (59) 22. Jaco van der Walt (14) 23. Chris Dean (63)

Johnny McPhillips only has 8 appearances so that's half the team are rookies. It is 100% right that Ulster finally give these guys experience, but I don't expect anything from the game other than an adverse points difference.

Ulster forwards have 4 players who had not started a match before this season and 2 of them are only 19
Willie Anderson starting have an impact

After the u20s 6n I'm looking forward to see Curtis. By all accounts he's got a bit of dog in him which is good from a 10/12

That Trimble, Henry, Browne, Ross and a host of other players, who I presume are fit, aren't in the 23 is an indication we don't care about this game and are building for the future.

Quite right too.

Disappointing that Shanahan is still there ahead of Stewart. They must really not rate the kid.

Maybe they thought that they already had reached their limit with rookies?

Could the Pro14 punish Ulster for not fielding a 'senior' team?

Redman wrote:That Trimble, Henry, Browne, Ross and a host of other players, who I presume are fit, aren't in the 23 is an indication we don't care about this game and are building for the future.  

 

Bryn said publically - only Rory of the over 30s makes a fully fit 23.

Basically a statement that Bowe, Trimble, Henry and P.Marshall are no longer up to it.
All will retire this year, or at most next if they have contract till 2019.

Browne and Ross fit the deadwood description I expect them to go at the end of their existing contracts as well

Agree on Ross, disagree on Browne. He is a solid player who can play lock or blindside, has reasonable hands and a decent turn of pace. Schmidt had Browne on the fringes last season and Treadwell hasn't looked too good this year. Ulster continue to be very light in the backrow so Henderson will probably continue to commute between lock and blindside, and having Browne as an option (with Dalton) is required cover.

The Great Aukster wrote:Maybe they thought that they already had reached their limit with rookies?

Could the Pro14 punish Ulster for not fielding a 'senior' team?

I know said tongue in cheek but got me thinking.
In the forwards:
Beyond summer 2019 I reckon only the following, non youngsters will be with us, who are here now (aged 26th or over on 1st Jan 2018)
Herring, Herbst, Henderson, AOC, Coetzee (if fit and wants to stay)
Maybes - Reidy, Warwick

OUT - VdeM, Simpson, Ah You, Browne, Montgomery, Diack, Henry, Ross, Black, Deysel
Also Best retiring

That's is one hell of a clear out, and needed

Dalton has gone past Browne and Regan will next year

I expected our locks to be Henderson, AOC, Dalton, Regan and a NIQ signing.
Treadwell as well, if he bucks his ideas up otherwise he will gone too
Don't see a space for Browne

Hendo will play more 2nd row for the simple reason that is where Ireland want him.
In is in the backrow where the talent is coming through.
Bryn spoke of another NIQ backrower, if true then with Coetzee and Murphy and the kids we wont be short next year

Some good news heard Hall spoken as one for the future, wouldn't happen if he was going so looks like KOTH waswrong

Maybe this should be on the Ulster thread?

Leinster have Dan Leavy - Ulster have Dunleavy! Hopefully he will prove to be as good, Timoney is already looking promising and some of Dalton, Agnew, Hall, Jones or both Reas will develop. They are all being thrown in the deep end, which is not really the best way to learn how to swim but at least they are getting wet. However who do these apprentices learn from?
Ireland want Henderson in the row (as I do), and that probably facilitated the Murphy move and maybe will allow another NIQ backrower in as well. I'm not convinced by Dalton at lock (yet) and don't know enough about Jack Regan, but if there is another quality lock coming in then I have no argument with Browne going - that is exactly the sort of improvement that Ulster should have been making on an ongoing basis for years.

As you know I have been critical of Cunningham but the shortsighted player recruitment and management policy existed before his tenure as well. Bryn is making the right noises so maybe he will make a difference with his alleged restrictions now removed.

There are too many players at Ulster who aren't good enough to be in contention for a regular place and for whatever reason haven't been replaced before now. Ulster have been recruiting or promoting squad fillers for too long and using them as first choice players in the hope they will metamorphose into world beaters. They have also tried to recruit 'experience' with guys like Wilson and Baby Humph. All that happened was guys who were never quite good enough were now past that best and blocked younger options from getting experience.

It's great to see young options being tried but Ulster now face an experience deficit while they get up to speed. It is a legacy that was predicted, but hopefully Cunningham has the will and authority to finally address it.

Agree with most of that - who brings these lads on is indeed a big issue
Looking ay my old hand retention list it is slim pickings indeed

Herring, Herbst, Henderson, AOC, Coetzee (if fit and wants to stay)
Maybes - Reidy, Warwick

So who really has experience, who really has been there seen it done it

Henderson and maybe Herring... and if Coetzee goes that's it

I'd argue against the experienced players playing just sake of trying to shepherd the youth in. They've served us so poorly in terms of that on the pitch support over the 80 mins. The young would be better served with trying to learn self-reliance. If it's a baptism of fire then so be it.

The experienced players may be brilliant at working with the kids during training with the 45 man squad but the number of times over the last few years the experienced heads have gone missing in matches and not grabbed people around the collar and said "This is was we're doing ....". Maybe they're too focused on trying to improve their own individual performances.

It's been poor from the likes of Henry, Trimble, etc.

Best and Henderson have been exceptions to this.

Another exception has been Piutai in games. You can see he tries to work with Stockdale, telling him where to go, etc. Actual in-game support.

Bryn was less than excited by Piatau this year.

Seems clear he thought he was outstanding last year, but this year not so much.
Got the distinct impression he was disappointed with his performances this year.

I don't think anyone is saying keep the old heads on just because they are experienced more a case of the number
of old heads worth keeping on is scarily small.
Cunningham himself said Best is the only over 30 who makes the starting 23

Bit of an easy score that

Edinburgh definitely looking better at half back with Duncy and SHC this week than last. They really do need another SH for next season.

Ulster are going to miss Piatau next season!

Sod this, I'm putting Eastenders on

This is like watching Edinburgh in the old days!

Absolute pace from weir. Flying machine

Duncy does it again!

I had no idea he was that fast!

BigGee wrote:Ulster are going to miss Piatau next season!

Nah he's only shown flashes of what he can do, need more consistency from players

Jeebus. Bradbury just killed the Ulster tackler

Ludik won't be wanting to tackle Bradbury again any time soon!

Dearie me, looks like the Luvvies are desperate to lose this. All except Wee Dunky who obviously missed the pre match briefing.

Mind you he does hate those long long runs.

Louis Ludik is hard as nails. Even after the final tackle that led to the injury substitution, he jumped back to his feet to join the ruck.

Now I'm fully prepared for this to all go horribly wrong for us, but do we seem to be playing something resembling rugby with a bit of passion? Not seen that from Ulster for a while.
Some of our tackling is still gash but some shoots of hope here

When was the last time Ulster won this many turnovers in a game?

I'm watch it on a delay. Frick me ludick took one hell of a bit. And was there a single scrum in the first half?

carpet baboon wrote:I'm watch it on a delay. Frick me ludick took one hell of a bit. And was there a single scrum in the first half?

No scrums in 1st half

OK guys, I've tried but I'm giving up the Luvvies are rugby's answer to Mike and Bernie Winters; you can see what they're trying to do, but they're just not good enough at it and they're not even funny.

That's a blatant yellow card

Not sure we should have made the subs before this scrum

If this goes down again then surely a penalty try and a YC

BigGee wrote:If this goes down again then surely a penalty try and a YC

We had 3 of them and it didn't happen last week!

BigGee wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:I'm watch it on a delay. Frick me ludick took one hell of a bit. And was there a single scrum in the first half?

No scrums in 1st half

Has that ever happened before?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Not sure we should have made the subs before this scrum

Shows what I know!

carpet baboon wrote:

BigGee wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:I'm watch it on a delay. Frick me ludick took one hell of a bit. And was there a single scrum in the first half?

No scrums in 1st half

Has that ever happened before?

Never heard of that, hard to imagine.

Mind you the way the Ulster scrum is going, for them it was no bad thing!

Ritchie should have done better there - one on one ruck clear out