Edinburgh vs Ulster, 6th April 2018

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Edinburgh vs Ulster
Champions Cup or Bust
BT Murrayfield
19:35
6th April
BBC Alba

Ref: Nigel Owens (WRU)
Assistant Refs: Wayne Davies (WRU), David Sutherland (Scotland)
TMO: Sean Brickell (WRU)

https://www.pro14rugby.org/overview/?FixGuid=17EU5618

Edinburgh

1) Jordan Lay
2) Stuart McInally (C)
3) Simon Berghan
4) Ben Toolis
5) Grant Gilchrist
6) Magnus Bradbury
7) Jamie Ritchie
8) Bill Mata

9) SHC
10) Duncan Weir
11) DVDM
12) Phil Burleigh
13) Mark Bennett
14) Dougie Fife
15) Blair Kinghorn

Cochrane, Sutherland, Nel, Carmichael, CDP, Kennedy, JVDW, Dean

Ulster

1) Andy Warwick
2) Rory Best (C)
3) Tom O'Toole
4) Matthew Dalton
5) Iain Henderson
6) Matthew Rea
7) Nick Timoney
8) Jean Deysel

9) John Cooney
10) Johnny McPhillips
11) Jacob Stockdale
12) Stuart McCloskey
13) Darren Cave
14) Louis Ludik
15) Charles Piutau

Herring, O'Hagan, Ah You, O'Connor, Reidy, Shanahan, Curtis, Bowe

That wasn't a penalty in the slightest

What's worrying here is we've had to work bloody hard to get our points and Ulster are earning theirs fairly easily.

Nonsense call from Nigel. Both players were still moving forward when the ball was ripped

tigertattie wrote:Nonsense call from Nigel. Both players were still moving forward when the ball was ripped

And they hadn't hit the ground yet.

Penalties killing us!

O'wens is very quick to penalise Edinburgh.

tigertattie wrote:Nonsense call from Nigel. Both players were still moving forward when the ball was ripped

Except once the knee hits the floor its a completed tackle, like he explained just a timing issue

O'Toole. Looks good n the loose. Needs some work at scrum time

carpet baboon wrote:O'Toole. Looks good n the loose. Needs some work at scrum time

Light 19 year old going up against an experienced prop, not going to go well in the scrum but in a few years he'll be a lot better

That was so unbelievably forward

VinceWLB wrote:O'wens is very quick to penalise Edinburgh.

Don't join those sad Welsh kads. Your better than that

Ulster making far too much from first phase every single time

carpet baboon wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:O'wens is very quick to penalise Edinburgh.

Don't join those sad Welsh kads. Your better than that

its not like he just let Gilchrist away with going beyond the ball at the last ruck or anything

We're forcing it now - Gilchrist shouldn't have given that offload and Weir didnt need that cross field kick.

Game over.

why did Weir kick that?

Was that horrible first 23 mins that killed us.

Are we really going to blow it this season? Depressing.

A bonus point win for Ulster. Not what Edinburgh needed but probably deserved

That's weak.

This Edinburgh team is going nowhere. They haven't shown any attacking intent the whole game, although that's probably the future under Cockerill.

BigGee wrote:A bonus point win for Ulster. Not what Edinburgh needed but probably deserved

I missed the first half but 3 early tries killed us.

An Ulster BP win is literally the worst result for us.

We still can finish 3rd but we may have to beat Scarlets or Glasgow to do so. We're running out of steam at a worrying rate!

Bit upset we didn't give Curtis any game time

Well it's fair to say I didn't expect that, we did well and play some nice rugby which was good to see, generally the defence seemed much better too.

Got mullered in the scrum but kind of expected that, good debut for O'Toole in the loose, very promising signs.

VinceWLB wrote:That's weak.

This Edinburgh team is going nowhere. They haven't shown any attacking intent the whole game, although that's probably the future under Cockerill.

and here it comes Edinburgh lose 2 games on the trot and are going nowhere despite still being 3rd regardless of if Ulster beat Glasgow in the game in hand....

It's not even Cockers team mostly, pretty much same one as last season that won the grand total of 6 games.

neilthom7 wrote:Well it's fair to say I didn't expect that, we did well and play some nice rugby which was good to see, generally the defence seemed much better too.

Got mullered in the scrum but kind of expected that, good debut for O'Toole in the loose, very promising signs.

Yup our kids are showing the dog and fight most of the team have been missing all year. Still missing some simple tackles at times but I'm begging to hope.
And dysel was actually good tonight

Welly wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:That's weak.

This Edinburgh team is going nowhere. They haven't shown any attacking intent the whole game, although that's probably the future under Cockerill.

and here it comes Edinburgh lose 2 games on the trot and are going nowhere despite still being 3rd regardless of if Ulster beat Glasgow in the game in hand....

It's not even Cockers team mostly.

Clear out coming and quality players like Barclay, Scott and Hickey coming in. Going to be a different team next year, I expect Edinburgh to kick on next year

We lost it in first phase defence and the breakdown, plus the that's 2 games in a row now we haven't scored try through our own attack.

carpet baboon wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:Well it's fair to say I didn't expect that, we did well and play some nice rugby which was good to see, generally the defence seemed much better too.

Got mullered in the scrum but kind of expected that, good debut for O'Toole in the loose, very promising signs.

Yup our kids are showing the dog and fight most of the team have been missing all year. Still missing some simple tackles at times but I'm begging to hope.
And dysel was actually good tonight

McCloskey was the epitome of Ulster I thought, doing some things well then making mistakes but Ive said for a while Deysels been one of the better players at the breakdown for us and he stepped it up there tonight as he did with his all round game but still needs a bit of a rocket when going into contact

Still say Edinburgh will finish 3rd

tigertattie wrote:Still say Edinburgh will finish 3rd

Chances are we still will - Ulster pretty much need to win their remaining 3 games or rely on bonus points being favourable , but we really needed to win tonight as it is going to be even more difficult beating 2 of the best teams in the league to guarantee it.

marty2086 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:Well it's fair to say I didn't expect that, we did well and play some nice rugby which was good to see, generally the defence seemed much better too.

Got mullered in the scrum but kind of expected that, good debut for O'Toole in the loose, very promising signs.

Yup our kids are showing the dog and fight most of the team have been missing all year. Still missing some simple tackles at times but I'm begging to hope.
And dysel was actually good tonight

McCloskey was the epitome of Ulster I thought, doing some things well then making mistakes but Ive said for a while Deysels been one of the better players at the breakdown for us and he stepped it up there tonight as he did with his all round game but still needs a bit of a rocket when going into contact

Yeah for someone his size deysel seems to be a bit hesitant in smashing the hell out of people. But his work at the breakdown was top notch tonight. Even good old rodders looked interested in putting in a performance today

tigertattie wrote:Still say Edinburgh will finish 3rd

Christ of course you will.
I'm just glad Ulster are showing some sort of pride and effort. This year has kinda sucked on the rugby front

Good game for the neutral. The run in is looking very interesting for a good few teams. Cheetahs v Cardiff has a lot riding on it. And Benetton v Dragons will do a lot for Italian rugby if they get the right result.

carpet baboon wrote: Even good old rodders looked interested in putting in a performance today

He even looked a bit more slimline

Much Much better from ulster. Henderson clearly motm but others who have been maligned must feel likewise. Warwick can be happy he finally backed up his coaches faith. Rea was as physical as i can remember him. O'Toole made double digit tackles missing none. Scrum needs work but it'll come. Lots of positives to take.

Also a better performance from Edinburgh in that the forwards contained and pushed back ulster forwards well but the defensive organisation and decision making in the backs was poor. WTF has happened to Kinghorn? all over the place

TJ wrote:Also a better performance from Edinburgh in that the forwards contained and pushed back ulster forwards well but the defensive organisation and decision making in the backs was poor.  WTF has happened to Kinghorn?  all over the place

Forwards have to take blame for our poor breakdown performance. Ulster got lots of quick ball whereas ours were slow and we were turned over a lot. Roddy Grant has got his work cut out!

At last some passion, some pride and some resolve.
We do have a rugby club after all.
Henderson was absolutely brilliant and the youngsters stepped up
Only saw two bad missed tackles - Stockdale and Dalton

Herbst, Ross, Treadwell let that be a warning to you - get your finger out or sling your hook.
Cave may not be the best physical specimen on the rugby pitch but he is one of the smartest.
No coincidence that our best defensive performances have been when he is on the pitch - he tells others where to go.

Rea and Timoney grow and grow.
Dalton is very raw but only 19 and there is definitely something there
What impressed me was we sorted things out when they were going wrong
Couple of dodgy lineouts - fixed on the pitch
Scrums getting mulled so AOC on and Henderson switches to behind O'Toole
Still not working we got Rodney on - should have been a scrum earlier though

O'Toole was outstanding in the loose and at 19 thqat will be an experience he will learn so much from.

I had the biggest smile on my face of the season - not the best performance but the most satisfying result.
Maybe, just maybe, with all the sh!t going round we can circle the wagons and use it as a source of strength

Reckon we are one game away from the play off match and if we beat Ospreys at home and Edinburgh lose to Scarlets
it will still be all to play for.
5-0 points mean Edinburgh may now be looking nervously over their shoulder.
We play Ospreys the day before Edinburgh play Scarlets - win that and Edinburgh may just cave in under the pressure and Scarlets are the team to apply it

Money must be on Edinburgh but after last night you never know

geoff999rugby wrote:
Cave may not be the best physical specimen on the rugby pitch but he is one of the smartest.
No coincidence that our best defensive performances have been when he is on the pitch - he tells others where to go.

More than that, his tackling was fantastic. He seemed to have a bit of an extra zip in his legs for his try too

Seemed to be a tactic overall to go for the knees and the guy nearest either finishes the job or tries to go for the ball. Attack in the first half seemed to show a bit more variation than we've seen in a while, went a bit more conservative in the second half but some thought into things and adjustments on the fly were definitely good signs and long overdue

Money must be on Edinburgh but after last night you never know

this is Edinburgh you are talking about - the pro 14 masters of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

Cave had 17 tackles and none missed. That is superb. I still think he needs managed. He isnt young and he was never the quickest. He has brains to burn though. In fairness to payne thats two games against Edinburgh i would say have been our best defensively this season.

O'Toole 12 tackles and none missed in 55 minutes odd. brilliant.
Dalton the only forward with not great tackle stats. Just a raw talent. Touch of the caldwells about him so i hope we get a new lock to mentor him when Hendo is away.

A lot better from Rea and he along with Deysel and Hendo carried well. A word for Warwick too who ive been very critical of. really good shift.

Should have said that for me that was, by a country mile, Deysel best performance in an Ulster shirt.
The sort of performance we were hoping for week in week out

Edinburgh were generally poor in the first 25 minutes and the narrow defensive line was shot to pieces. The lack of knock-ons proved to be a negative as the dominance in the set piece became clear in the second half.

After the intercept, Edinburgh did wake up. Weir showed why he was capped and later discarded with his performance. Fell apart in the last 15. Kennedy was better than Fowles would have been. Burleigh/Kinghorn had  poor performances and McInally was quiet by his standards. Thought Bradbury carried well, but still needs to do more around the rucks. Mata was his rampaging self and it was a clear downgrade when CDP came on. Carmichael did well from the bench.

Thought Owens was inconsistent at rewarding turnovers and generally his standards have dropped this year. Whitehouse has suffered from inconsistency this year and wonder whether it is some change in the training from the Pro 14 or the WRU (has it gone collective)?

Ultimately Ulster deserved the win. The centres were way better than Edinburgh's. Deysel was a nuisance though it was Henderson for me who really gave that pack bite. He seemed to be the leader at the heart of it. Cooney has been excellent this season (the few times I have watched) and McPhillips is a good second option at 10 (not far off being ready to being a lead option for a big side; needs more seasoning). O'Toole was good in the loose (struggled at scrum time as expected).

Can't believe some Scots doubting their team - Edinburgh have third place in the bag. In fact they should rest their key players to prepare for the playoffs.

Was going to pick you up Geoff for not mentioning Deysel, but you rectified that. That was undoubtedly Deysel's best game in an Ulster shirt, and shows that there is definitely a rugby player in there hiding away all these months.

Can't understand how Cooney got MOTH, he was good enough but Henderson was a standout. Best deserves a mention too for his general leadership and his uncanny ability to do what needs to be done.

Aukster - simple experience. That and we are not used to being in the top half. Edinburgh are predictable in their inconsistency and ability to lose from winning positions. Until we are actually safe then most of us Edinburgh fans will be worried / pesimistic. Two tough games to come - we really needed to win against Ulster

i fancy you to beat Glasgow TJ. Whatever else Edinburgh are definitely trending in the right direction.

Not really! last 2 or 3 games we have reverted to the edinburgh of last year. Hopefully for Glasgow the game will be pointless as they already have the home semi in the bank so they can feild a weakened team and Edinburgh put out full strength!

How is the 1872 decided? I doubt Glasgow will be resting their big boys..

Aggregate scores over the 3 matches

TJ wrote:Aggregate scores over the 3 matches

Thanks, so Glasgow still favorite to win it even if they rest a few (which i don't think they will).