The 6th Place Trophy - The 2017/18 Premier League Thread

[Ent]

First topic message reminder :

Good bit to go but like I said tremendous effort and pride in Thais second half. Doing the right things.

Be good to spoil the party. Next year we have to be the team with a season/party to spoil though.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Even in his apparent mediocre stage, he maintained Chanpions league finishes until these last two years. That’s a man who apparently didn’t understand his team and didn’t evolve with the game. And he did that whilst often being the best team to watch in the league 

I do understand the criticisms, but I’ve always thought they were really overplayed.

[Guest]

The criticisms will wane with time. He should be thought of as a legend of English football. I'd only place Fergie higher in Premier League history.

7 FA Cups alone is staggering. An unbeaten season that will probably never be repeated. Football easy on the eye. Possibly the best group of players never to lift a Champions League. He did so much.

[No name Bertie]

... As an aside, I just had a look at who was managing in the Premiership when Wenger started at Arsenal, and the only other non GB&I manager was Ruud Gullitt, who had taken over at Chelsea a few months earlier. While there were some excellent British managers around at the time (Fergie, George Graham, Martin O'Neill), there were also such luminaries as Colin Todd, Jim Smith and Frank Clark...

This fits in with one of the "luck" elements in my previous comment. The luck of having personal knowledge of up and coming French talent in a period when most other Premier League clubs did not have that knowledge. Wenger lost that advantage when other clubs began employing non-British managers as well as expanding their scouting networks to Europe and elsewhere.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Luck of knowledge

[Lowlandbrit]

Yes, agree.  But how can we match the first part with the second part?

My theory is that the rise of Barcelona was the undoing of Wenger. They showed it was possible to stay on top playing the style he wanted, so why change anything?

[Ent]

He made a balls of it when signing a raft of young players on astronomical wages (somehow pushing arsenals wage bill to be the highest/second highest in the league despite not paying an individual over £50k a week).

He was paying teenagers the same as united were paying established squad players.

Was a gamble that didn't pay off, when those teenagers didn't turn into world beaters he was screwed. Tried to be to clever and failed.

[No name Bertie]

WBA's caretaker manager Darren Moore does it again getting a home draw with Liverpool with his side coming back from 2-0 down. That's five points from three matches (compared to Pardew's 8 points from 18 matches). Who could have known that the solution to WBA's problems was their youth coach - but they elevated him too late to prevent WBA from certain relegation.

[GSC]

Would Darren Moore be as successful if he was managing under the pressure of a relegation battle rather than inheriting a side that was already gone.

If you don't go up first time after being relegated, you might be in for a long stay

[compelling and rich]

Who did Fergie nurture?

No-one as far as I can tell - except apparently he would offer advice freely when contacted - but only as an external consultant (non-charging).

you telling me steve bruce, mark hughes, byran robson, gordon starchan, steve mclaren were never passed anything on by fergie to these guys that they took onto in their managerial careers? if thats not nurturing what is?

you can add likes of ole, stam, giggs, ince, blanc (bit short lived tbf) nevilles, keane, berg, teddy all gone into managerial careers. the majority of which will say fergie is the most influential man in their careers (not keane of course). they may not been all fantastic success stories but you cant lay the blame at fergies door for that

[compelling and rich]

on wenger i think people are pretty harsh. ali got beat by spinks, holmes and berbick at the end of his career but it doesnt mean you right off what he did before that. lets face it he's the second most successful manager in premier league era. yes he went on too long but you have to remember during the majority of his career he was battling it out against a rather good sir alex ferguson and united. mourinhos chelsea and citys current were/are mainly unopposed  (soon as united came back at mourinho he cleared off from chelsea)  

i

[Dolphin Ziggler]

As Liverpool have a stonewall penalty denied, Stoke then miss a chance from 2 yards to surely win it

[No name Bertie]

I hope the FA give Darren Moore the manager of the month award for April.   In four games he has now matched the number of points Allan Pardew gained in eighteen games.

7th April: WBA 1 Swansea 1 (after 8 consecutive losses for WBA)
15th April: Man Utd 0 WBA 1
21st April: WBA 2 Liverpool 2 (coming back from a 2 goal deficit)
28th April: Newcastle 0 WBA 1

Darren Moore says he loves being a coach and what he is doing at the moment is coaching and picking the team.  It seems that his heart isn't in all the other things that management usually entails - so I hope WBA can do something to split up the managerial role so that Moore can focus on coaching + picking the team.  The WBA are certainties to be relegated but with Moore in charge they have a chance of bouncing back.  Note if Swansea somehow beat Chelsea, WBA will be relegated later today.

Very bad loss for Huddersfield.  Both Stoke (if they win their last two games) and Southampton have a chance of overtaking Huddersfield as well as Swansea, but they both have to perform above expectation.  Swansea play both Stoke and Southampton at home, and home advantage will be crucial for Swansea's survival.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Say why you want about respect, but we just gave City a guard of honour for 90 minutes. 

Going down going down going down

[Ent]

Mourinho just trolling.

Play crap the entire game then fellaini with a header to win it in the 90th minute.

Both sides should be ashamed of that game.

[Ent]

Complete and utter Poopie from united yet again.

3 shots on target against relegation fodder.

Christ.

[Guest]

Stoke are done

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I think we’re all eager to see how this works in Bertie’s system.

[GSC]

No stat on it but feels like Stoke have thrown away so many points from winning positions

[Guest]

Butland & Shaqiri aside, the rest are cannon-fodder. No surprise to see where they find themselves. Wouldn't put them in the bracket of an immediate return.

[Guest]

West Brom hanging on. Over to you, Bertie!

[Dolphin Ziggler]

The bottom 13 of the table are all much of a muchness; management,  injuries and balance in the squad the difference makers. Zouma and Bauer look decent, but they’ve suffered for absolutely appalling strikers. Crouch shouldn’t be any Premier League side’s best striker

[No name Bertie]

Everton could be instrumental in determining who between Southampton and Huddersfield get relegated: Last week Everton beat Huddersfield at Huddersfield, and this week they are currently losing at home to Southampton. Swansea's final two matches are both at home - against relegation rival Southampton and against relegated Stoke.

[GSC]

If you were a believer in destiny, lump on West Brom survival

[GSC]

Biggest winners out of today might be Huddersfield. Won't be in the bottom 3 heading into the final weekend no matter what happens.

Loser of Swansea Southampton will be down you'd suspect. Maybe more emphasis on Southampton to go for it with City visiting on the last day.

[GSC]

I'd love to see a scenario where Southampton stay up over West Brom on goals scored though.

[No name Bertie]

It's being reported that Alex Ferguson has had a stroke and has had a brain operation (described as successful) to deal with a Brain Haemorrhage, and is now going through a recovery/surveillance process in hospital. It may take several days before his condition is known. His son Darren Ferguson who manages Doncaster, missed the game in order to be with his father in hospital.

[Ent]

Sir Alex critically ill after having emergency surgery on a brain haemorraghe.

[No name Bertie]

https://twitter.com/MiguelDelaney/status/992841399929397248

[No name Bertie]

It seems perhaps it was not a stroke - whatever happened he seems to have had a fall, and a bang to his head led to a brain haemorrhage. In such a situation it would be important to drain the swelling before internal pressure damages the brain. This is what one needs to be careful of with the elderly.

[Ent]

Thanks dr Bertie.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

F*cking hell Nore

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Huddersfield may just get a point here, which might be a good thing in the system

[No name Bertie]

None of the top four win and none of them score a goal:
Man City 0 Huddersfield 0
Brighton 1 Man Utd 0
Chelsea 1 Liverpool 0
WBA 1 Tottenham Hotspur 0

Manchester United now only need one point to secure second place.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Every club outside the top 6 has minus goal difference

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Liverpool sound close to a deal for Nabil Fekir

[GSC]

Could be a pretty important point for Huddersfield in the final shakedown. Win or two draws would do the job this week, or 1 point if Southampton Swansea doesnt end up in a draw.

[Duty281]

Yep, an excellent point for Huddersfield. And the luck of the fixture list too - had they been playing at the Etihad in February, they could have been blown away. Instead they were up against a side on their holidays.

All three promoted sides look to be staying up, then. Would hope Southampton could remain up as well.

[GSC]

Nice to see Arsene get his farewell day also.

[No name Bertie]

Yep, an excellent point for Huddersfield. And the luck of the fixture list too - had they been playing at the Etihad in February, they could have been blown away. Instead they were up against a side on their holidays.

All three promoted sides look to be staying up, then. Would hope Southampton could remain up as well.

These things might balance out.  Huddersfield next play away at Chelsea - and Chelsea have to win to remain in the hunt for fourth place and qualification to the Champions League.  And Huddersfield's final game is at home to Arsenal.  Now despite Arsenals dreadful away record, this is Wenger's last game, and Arsenal just might turn on the afterburners as they can, like they did against Burnley.

Swansea on the other hand - their last game is at home to Stoke - and Stoke have nothing to play for apart from "pride".  Similarly Southampton's last game is at home to Manchester City - which as you mentioned might still be on their holidays - and with the World Cup now looming, nobody wants to risk an injury.

[No name Bertie]

Jack Butland says from his inside view of what has been happening at Stoke - the reason for Stokes fall down the premier league table and now relegation - is nearly 100% due to farcical transfer activity that has seen several tens of millions of pounds poured straight down the drain in risky players that have completely bombed:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44027903

[Guest]

Yeah, Mark Hughes is a bit of a sh!t spender. See QPR for details.

[Ent]

Ah he bought some good players amongst the duff ones.

Bojan, shakiri, Allen, pieters, arnautovic - in sure there are a few more.

Stokes finances mean a few punts needed to be taken and they stopped working out.

[compelling and rich]

The bottom 13 of the table are all much of a muchness; management,  injuries and balance in the squad the difference makers. Zouma and Bauer look decent, but they’ve suffered for absolutely appalling strikers. Crouch shouldn’t be any Premier League side’s best striker

everyone other than the top six is in a relegation battle these days. even stable mid table clubs in the past like everton and stoke are now finding themselves no longer automatically safe

[compelling and rich]

Ah he bought some good players amongst the duff ones.

Bojan, shakiri, Allen, pieters, arnautovic - in sure there are a few more.

Stokes finances mean a few punts needed to be taken and they stopped working out.

stoke have been signing names from big clubs. then realizing said names are being shipped out because they are not good enough. bojan, afellay, shaqiri, jese all very hot and cold players. at best you get them in 1 in 5 and when they are not on it they are awful and not up for the fight required in a relegation battle

[Ent]

Bojan not the same after a bad injury but did well for stoke.

Shakiri done alright, a bit mercurial.

The rest haven't done well, like I said stoke take a few punts looking for value given their finances.

[compelling and rich]

not sure 1 in 4 is doing that well for a forward. shaqiri has shown glimpses but not often enough and his work rate when off the ball means your basically a man down when hes not on it

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Seems a myth that, Shaqiri doesn’t work hard. Him and Bojan I’d call successes, but too many misses. No idea why they bought Wimmer and Martins Indi

[compelling and rich]

not sure bojan is a success, if he were he'd still be at the club. the last time he contributed anything was two seasons ago.

shaqiri is the best of a bad bunch of very poor signings. see adam has been putting the boot in today as well. seems theres a major attitude problem with quite a few of these players

[Ent]

Bojan had a bad injury, was doing very well prior to it.

[No name Bertie]

Darren Moore wins Premier League Manager of the Month Award for April 2018. Well deserved.
• Allen Pardew hang your head in shame.
• Darren Moore has said he enjoys coaching, determining the tactics, picking the team - but he is not so much interested in the other stuff that would come if he took up the managers position full time.

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