Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

First topic message reminder :

Carberry is 22, McPhillips is 21. Is this talk about sticking with McPhillips and hoping he turns out to be a gem maybe a tad naive? Carberry at a year older is being talked about as though he was the second coming and all this despite Sexton and Byrne and a whole backline of stellar players potentially blocking him. By contrast, it's almost as if we only know the name of McPhillips because we had no choice. A year ago the thinking was Jackson and Nelson. We then were saying Cooney can play 10 a bit. Then we signed Lealifano. Surely if McPhillips was the hot prospect, the coaches would have featured him more before Lealifano left.
In fact during Leanlifano's time here wasn't Nelson the preferred bench 10, and indeed started 3 games at 10 before Christmas, but then got injured?

Not meaning to be super negative, I hope I'm wrong. Cooney is a perfect example of a player suddenly shining from nowhere. I guess Ulster coaches know better than me if he's a real prospect worth thrusting into the limelight or not.

None of that invalids the wider point about the total player budget, inclusive of CCs is in the £6 to £6.5m range

By contrast the English salary cap is £7m + 2 markee signings - shall we shall £8m+

So the Ulster, and I suspect Munster, salary bill is some 75% of the top English clubs
Leinster I suspect, because of all their CCs, is around the same as the top English

That is a very different picture from that painted by some on here

geoff999rugby wrote:None of that invalids the wider point about the total player budget, inclusive of CCs is in the £6 to £6.5m range

By contrast the English salary cap is £7m + 2 markee signings - shall we shall £8m+

So the Ulster, and I suspect Munster, salary bill is some 75% of the top English clubs
Leinster I suspect, because of all their CCs, is around the same as the top English

That is a very different picture from that painted by some on here

Think on that. if that is true (which it isn't, as you're ignoring the fact that the figure from Ulster excludes the IRFU's direct payment on top of each contract), the total spend by the IRFU on the pro game won't add up to the figure in the Annual Report.

What you're hung up on is the figure paid out of the Ulster departmental report towards IRFU employees. It doesn't include the figure the IRFU pays those employees.

If you like, you're comparing your £10 chucked into the beer kitty with the total of the kitty.

Pure superstition based on a sad delusion complex

I have been written privately to Welsh posters on here who say they have stopped posting because of people like you.
I can no longer be bothered arguing, I have a life to lead

Im off elsewhere, congratulation you, and others - Stone Motif comes to mind - Im done with this place.

Bye Bye to all the Ulster boys - this place will be dead in a year due to a failure to moderate

I wont be reading any reply

geoff999rugby wrote:Pure superstition based on a sad delusion complex

I have been written privately to Welsh posters on here who say they have stopped posting because of people like you.
I can no longer be bothered arguing, I have a life to lead

Im off elsewhere, congratulation you, and others - Stone Motif comes to mind - Im done  with this place.

Bye Bye to all the Ulster boys - this place will be dead in a year due to a failure to moderate

I wont be reading any reply

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/leinster-face-chill-financial-winds-if-denied-riches-from-europe-1.2438647

Read that before you go. It'll help you realise that your childlike over reaction to reading a referenced opposing view isn't the behaviour an adult should show.

You're getting over excited over a departmental wage bill, without considering that the contracts of the players are directly held by the parental organisation. Therefore, the total cost of those employees is born elsewhere. What is shown in Ulster's report is that departmental's contribution to those wages.

Now, if that kind of information allows you to chuck your toys because you either can't handle it or can't argue against it, then have a good word with yourself.

Sorry to see you go Geoff, the place is much better when you block certain trolls

marty2086 wrote:Sorry to see you go Geoff, the place is much better when you block certain trolls

Troll = somebody who produces reference material to challenge the in-house accepted norm and to disprove it.

Right?

Anywho...in other news Tommy has been confirmed as the presenter of eirSports Pro14 coverage with Donncha O'Callaghan, Luke Fitzgerald, Maz Reilly and Murray Kinsella.

Decent lineup

It's high time the so called Mods did something about that idiot. Ruining the forum is surely just cause.
Anyway, that's some lineup of presenters, well done Eirsports, I'd watch that lot even without the rugby.

Pete330v2 wrote:It's high time the so called Mods did something about that idiot. Ruining the forum is surely just cause.
Anyway, that's some lineup of presenters, well done Eirsports, I'd watch that lot even without the rugby.

Agree on both points

I think Murray Kinsella could be great in the role, he does a lot of analysis on his twitter account and is usually pretty informative. Premier have to top that now

marty2086 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:where does it say that ??? - please let me know the page number

What I did note with interest was the Professional Rugby expenses of £5.1m
Now I assume that does not include the 3 CC  - Best, Bowe, Payne we are talking a total wage bill of around £6.15m well below many English teams and well below some of the claims made on here

It also fits with a figure of between £6m and £6.5m for this coming year, inclusive of the 2 CCs, that I have been told

Geoff - it’s well known that the Irish provinces are on player budgets well in excess of the English Premiership clubs and are easily competing with the Top14 clubs without having to bother with salary caps.   The IRFU gave nearly 50m to the provinces last year. More than anywhere else in global rugby.  

Might be a good idea to take a look at Ulsters annual report that Geoff is working off. The money going to the provinces includes prize money from the ERCC and Pro14 plus grants for the club game and development programmes

I know Marty. I might switched my sarcasm button on there temporarily...

Results from today’s challenge games:

Sale U19 5-14 Ulster U19
Newcastle U19 14-15 Ulster U19
Bristol U18 21-35 Ulster U18 Schools

Pot Hale wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:where does it say that ??? - please let me know the page number

What I did note with interest was the Professional Rugby expenses of £5.1m
Now I assume that does not include the 3 CC  - Best, Bowe, Payne we are talking a total wage bill of around £6.15m well below many English teams and well below some of the claims made on here

It also fits with a figure of between £6m and £6.5m for this coming year, inclusive of the 2 CCs, that I have been told

Geoff - it’s well known that the Irish provinces are on player budgets well in excess of the English Premiership clubs and are easily competing with the Top14 clubs without having to bother with salary caps.   The IRFU gave nearly 50m to the provinces last year. More than anywhere else in global rugby.  

Might be a good idea to take a look at Ulsters annual report that Geoff is working off. The money going to the provinces includes prize money from the ERCC and Pro14 plus grants for the club game and development programmes

I know Marty.  I might switched my sarcasm button on there temporarily...  

You do the sarcasm thing well Pot

marty2086 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:where does it say that ??? - please let me know the page number

What I did note with interest was the Professional Rugby expenses of £5.1m
Now I assume that does not include the 3 CC  - Best, Bowe, Payne we are talking a total wage bill of around £6.15m well below many English teams and well below some of the claims made on here

It also fits with a figure of between £6m and £6.5m for this coming year, inclusive of the 2 CCs, that I have been told

Geoff - it’s well known that the Irish provinces are on player budgets well in excess of the English Premiership clubs and are easily competing with the Top14 clubs without having to bother with salary caps.   The IRFU gave nearly 50m to the provinces last year. More than anywhere else in global rugby.  

Might be a good idea to take a look at Ulsters annual report that Geoff is working off. The money going to the provinces includes prize money from the ERCC and Pro14 plus grants for the club game and development programmes

I know Marty.  I might switched my sarcasm button on there temporarily...  

You do the sarcasm thing well Pot

We all have our moments, Marty.

marty2086 wrote:Anywho...in other news Tommy has been confirmed as the presenter of eirSports Pro14 coverage with Donncha O'Callaghan, Luke Fitzgerald, Maz Reilly and Murray Kinsella.

Decent lineup

Let me see. That's Tommy for the girls. Maz Reilly is for the guys. Murray for the clinical analysis (make way for a very big monitor in his side of the studio).... and the two eejits, O'Callaghan and Fitz are for the Craic. Three weeks of Craic, fellas! It'll be heaven..... well, at least on paper.

But who the hell is the presenter going to be? That can kill off any good plan; just ask RTE about dropping Darragh Maloney into Bill's seat over on dee footeball. Not exactly like with like in the inspiration stakes.....

Anyone looking for a new job?

Ulster accepting applications for the position of CEO until Sept 14th

https://4cexecutive.com/job/ulster-rugby-chief-executive/

PhilBB looks like he might have the right CV for the role

A bordering on psychotic love of IRFU detail, a bordering on obsessed interest in Ulster rugby and Friday nights.... and an all-over-the-shop addiction to financial acumen... with a small 'u'.

Well he talks as much crap as Logan too so it would be a seamless transition

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6rge9j

Short highlights of Brive's first outing including Stu Olding's first rugby in far too long.

SecretFly wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Anywho...in other news Tommy has been confirmed as the presenter of eirSports Pro14 coverage with Donncha O'Callaghan, Luke Fitzgerald, Maz Reilly and Murray Kinsella.

Decent lineup

Let me see.  That's Tommy for the girls. Maz Reilly is for the guys.  Murray for the clinical analysis (make way for a very big monitor in his side of the studio)....   and the two eejits, O'Callaghan and Fitz are for the Craic.  Three weeks of Craic, fellas!  It'll be heaven..... well, at least on paper.

But who the hell is the presenter going to be?  That can kill off any good plan; just ask RTE about dropping Darragh Maloney into Bill's seat over on dee footeball.  Not exactly like with like in the inspiration stakes.....

Err.. it’s Tommy for the girls and boys.

“We're delighted with this line-up put together by our production team led out by Colm Stafford and Chris Blake,” said eir Head of Marketing, Gordon Britchfield.  "It’s a fresh and new approach particularly in having Tommy Bowe as presenter so soon after his retirement from the game, I don’t think we've seen that before in an Irish context.  Tommy blew us away in rehearsals, he is incredibly comfortable in front of the camera and he wanted to present rather than being a pundit."

This worries me greatly as previous on-screen performances by Bowe have had all the excitement and charisma of a bowl of cold tapioca pudding with a drop of raspberry jam to make it look good.   We should be thankful I suppose it’s not Luke - I’m going to pee in my pants and burst out of my shirt I’m so excited to be involved with the goys again - Fitzgerald.

In defence of Luke, he can be a bit excitable, but on his left wing podcast he's actually quite good , and has no problem criticizing Leinster or old team mates when needed and I find his analysis of back play pretty spot on

carpet baboon wrote:In defence of Luke, he can be a bit excitable, but on his left wing podcast he's actually quite good , and has no problem criticizing Leinster or old team mates when needed and I find his analysis of back play pretty spot on

I’m sure it is. Did you hear his reminiscing with some English player about Lions tours and the wild things they got up to? In one incident which he thought sooo funny and outrageous some player threw a pizza at the room ceiling and it stuck there until the following morning when Luke woke up.

Rad, man. I nearly dropped my chin when I heard that one. Absolutely wild.

Pot Hale wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:In defence of Luke, he can be a bit excitable, but on his left wing podcast he's actually quite good , and has no problem criticizing Leinster or old team mates when needed and I find his analysis of back play pretty spot on

I’m sure it is.  Did you hear his reminiscing with some English player about Lions tours and the wild things they got up to?  In one incident which he thought sooo funny and outrageous some player threw a pizza at the room ceiling and it stuck there until the following morning when Luke woke up.  

Rad, man.  I nearly dropped my chin when I heard that one.   Absolutely wild.  

I never said he was funny.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/paddy-jackson-returns-to-competitive-rugby-with-perpignan-1.3591390?mode=amp

Sounds like a decent player, is he Irish qualified?

SecretFly wrote:PhilBB looks like he might have the right CV for the role

A bordering on psychotic love of IRFU detail, a bordering on obsessed interest in Ulster rugby and Friday nights.... and an all-over-the-shop addiction to financial acumen... with a small 'u'.

Sorry, but an IRFU Departmental Head role isn't that exciting really, is it? I mean, you're not in charge of your own staff, you don't directly employ many of your own staff and your told what to do by Dublin.

Not much fun in that.

p.s. thanks for thinking of me.

carpet baboon wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:In defence of Luke, he can be a bit excitable, but on his left wing podcast he's actually quite good , and has no problem criticizing Leinster or old team mates when needed and I find his analysis of back play pretty spot on

I’m sure it is.  Did you hear his reminiscing with some English player about Lions tours and the wild things they got up to?  In one incident which he thought sooo funny and outrageous some player threw a pizza at the room ceiling and it stuck there until the following morning when Luke woke up.  

Rad, man.  I nearly dropped my chin when I heard that one.   Absolutely wild.  

I never said he was funny.

True that, you didn’t.

Stockdale confirmed as being out for 6-8 weeks

neilthom7 wrote:Stockdale confirmed as being out for 6-8 weeks

So he could well be back at the end of September which is no big shakes really.....hopefully.....

Pete330v2 wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:Stockdale confirmed as being out for 6-8 weeks

So he could well be back at the end of September which is no  big shakes really.....hopefully.....

He'll miss a game or two outside of what he was expected to miss due to being rested post summer tour

Likely the end of September before he starts training again, shouldn't be too bad but will likely be mid-end of October before he gets up to speed again and starts producing his best.

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:PhilBB looks like he might have the right CV for the role

A bordering on psychotic love of IRFU detail, a bordering on obsessed interest in Ulster rugby and Friday nights.... and an all-over-the-shop addiction to financial acumen... with a small 'u'.

Sorry, but an IRFU Departmental Head role isn't that exciting really, is it? I mean, you're not in charge of your own staff, you don't directly employ many of your own staff and your told what to do by Dublin.

Not much fun in that.

p.s. thanks for thinking of me.

Anytime Phil...always interested in helping out old 606 pals if I can.

But your description of the IRFU department Head sounds just like the job description of an individual PRL owner. They smell a deceitful rat in their ranks and are told to shut up, say nothing in public and play on. 'Yes sir!' shout the individual owners who agree to be sold out in the winning stakes by fellow individual owners who don't mind breaking the supposed rules on a whim and a wink.
"Sir, yes sir, Mr Mc Cafferty sir!" shout the independent uncompromised owners.

For anyone who is interested, BelTel are doing their Ulster podcast this evening. Jonathan Bradley is inviting questions for it on Twitter for anyone who is interested

http://www.the42.ie/will-addison-sale-sharks-ulster-family-enniskillen-4183245-Aug2018/

Sounds like a smart addition, not least in terms of leadership and attitude. Him, Burns and Marty Moore to feature against Gloucester, evidently.

Ulster team to play Gloucester, Pre-season fixture, Kingspan Stadium, Saturday 18th August (5.30pm):
15. Peter Nelson
14. Craig Gilroy
13. Stewart Moore*
12. Darren Cave
11. Angus Kernohan*
10. Michael Lowry*
9. Jonny Stewart
1. Schalk van der Merwe
2. John Andrew
3. Tom O'Toole*
4. Alan O'Connor (captain)
5. Alex Thompson
6. Marcus Rea*
7. Chris Henry
8. Nick Timoney

Forward replacements:
Adam McBurney
Kyle McCall
Eric O'Sullivan*
Marty Moore
Ross Kane
Kieran Treadwell
Jack Regan*
Caleb Montgomery
Clive Ross
Sean Reidy
Greg Jones

Backline replacements:
David Shanahan
Billy Burns
Angus Curtis*
James Hume*
Aaron Sexton
Jack Owens
Will Addison

Will there be any highlights of the game?

I hear David Attenborough will be at the game to catch a glimpse of one of natures rare sights, Schalk Van Der Merwe in an Ulster shirt

marty2086 wrote:I hear David Attenborough will be at the game to catch a glimpse of one of natures rare sights, Schalk Van Der Merwe in an Ulster shirt

My money is on him picking up an injury while lost trying to find the changing rooms

He's a while to go before he beats Ruaidhrí 'Ireland Or Oz' Murphy's record hasn't he?

Just noticed there's no Coetzee, should we be worried?

marty2086 wrote:Just noticed there's no Coetzee, should we be worried?

I am but then again I'm neurotic by nature.

carpet baboon wrote:Will there be any highlights of the game?

The game is on the Ulster rugby facebook page live so probably will be highlights there too

neilthom7 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Will there be any highlights of the game?

The game is on the Ulster rugby facebook page live so probably will be highlights there too

Cheers fella

Mixed bag as you would expect from a pre-season friendly.

Real positive was the defence.  We soaked up a lot pressure from Gloucester and you really felt we had a system in place to cope.  

Generally I thought the youngsters did better than the experienced but always exceptions (thought Henry looked sharp).  Of the youngsters Stewart Moore, Lowry, Sexton, O'Toole, Regan and McBurney stood out.  

On McBurney though, the concern is the scrum.  We got totally destroyed with Moore and McCall next to him in the 2nd half.  We shouldn't have capitulated as badly as we did packing down there.  
On Lowry, he looked good but .......... small.  They targeted him a bit and while he stood up, you could see he was pretty beat up by the end.  

Oh and Burns went off injured.  LOL as the kids say.

Decent hit out but the pack was poor in the 2nd half when glaws brought on some big guns.

O’Toole had a good outing. Moore in the centre looked very solid as did Kernohan. The second half pack was humbled a bit but then it was a weak side. For me the only real negatives were Shanahan (noticeably slower than Stewart) and Nelson who continues to make the same mistakes as always.
Regan was manhandled a bit for me but Thompson did fine. Lowry got a cheap shot at the end which saw him go off I thought. Other than that very decent considering we have Warwick, Best, Herring, hendo, Coetzee, deysel, Murphy, rea the elder, cooney, stockdale, mccloskey, Marshall, speight, ludik etc not involved in any capacity

McFarland has been given the green light to start with Ulster Rugby next week. Nucifora negotiated a deal with SRU.

Good to see progress has been made.

Pot Hale wrote:McFarland has been given the green light to start with Ulster Rugby next week.  Nucifora negotiated a deal with SRU.

Good to see progress has been made.

Did Nucifora not say over the summer it wasn't money holding back McFarland joining?

Well done Nucifora on doing his job.

Apparently it wasn't money. Flinty McStag wasn't cutting it at Edinburgh so Sparky is moving as part of the deal. Ulster are getting in a Raven as a replacement.
So I heard.

Kingshu wrote:Apparently it wasn't money. Flinty McStag wasn't cutting it at Edinburgh so Sparky is moving as part of the deal. Ulster are getting in a Raven as a replacement.
So I heard.

Sounds plausible. With Ulster, anything is possible.

And believable.

Sharp try for Olding for Brive on debut.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DuCMw1yWFzQA&ved=2ahUKEwj_nYLqgvvcAhXBLMAKHY85DusQwqsBMAd6BAgJEBQ&usg=AOvVaw3OvM43WtyoUvr0RPvjUkr2

Kingshu wrote:Apparently it wasn't money. Flinty McStag wasn't cutting it at Edinburgh so Sparky is moving as part of the deal. Ulster are getting in a Raven as a replacement.
So I heard.

The deal with the Raven fell through so they're going to launch an ad today for a new mascot