Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

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Carberry is 22, McPhillips is 21. Is this talk about sticking with McPhillips and hoping he turns out to be a gem maybe a tad naive? Carberry at a year older is being talked about as though he was the second coming and all this despite Sexton and Byrne and a whole backline of stellar players potentially blocking him. By contrast, it's almost as if we only know the name of McPhillips because we had no choice. A year ago the thinking was Jackson and Nelson. We then were saying Cooney can play 10 a bit. Then we signed Lealifano. Surely if McPhillips was the hot prospect, the coaches would have featured him more before Lealifano left.
In fact during Leanlifano's time here wasn't Nelson the preferred bench 10, and indeed started 3 games at 10 before Christmas, but then got injured?

Not meaning to be super negative, I hope I'm wrong. Cooney is a perfect example of a player suddenly shining from nowhere. I guess Ulster coaches know better than me if he's a real prospect worth thrusting into the limelight or not.

That's useful insight into Burns. Thanks guys.

Certainly if he doesn’t improve you would be hoping one of our NIQ spots go on a 10 post World Cup.

Chat is the weather is going to be shocking so it's a huge gamble putting Lowry at 15.

Given they put Curtis at 13 in the last game (again pretty unfair if you ask me) then Addilson or Gilroy at 15 would make more sense.

Early days I know for the coaching ticket and fair play if they've looked at it and really think Lowry is the man under the highball in terrible conditions ... ok. But just feels pretty scattergun from the outside looking in.

clivemcl wrote:Certainly if he doesn’t improve you would be hoping one of our NIQ spots go on a 10 post World Cup.

Won't happen, especially with 3 young players who can play there. Think it'll be a while before we see a NIQ 10 at Ulster

Redman wrote:Chat is the weather is going to be shocking so it's a huge gamble putting Lowry at 15.  

Given they put Curtis at 13 in the last game (again pretty unfair if you ask me) then Addilson or Gilroy at 15 would make more sense.  

Early days I know for the coaching ticket and fair play if they've looked at it and really think Lowry is the man under the highball in terrible conditions ... ok.  But just feels pretty scattergun from the outside looking in.  

Would you fancy playing Curtis at 13 against Manu Tuilagi?

I watched Lowry play for the As against Scarlets. He played 12 that night and they kicked a bit over the top and Lowry went back after a few of them, he showed no fear especially when the Scarlets lads looked like fully grown men against a small boy

I'd fancy Stockdale against Tuilagi, Addison at 15 and keep Gilroy and Kernoghan on the wings.

So that was a fairly terrible game.

Either of the those sides that showed up in the first half would get walloped by a good side .... as the Munster game showed I guess.

Leicester were unbelievably lazy. When we stepped it up in the 2nd half they totally fell apart. That line defence for O'Connor's try was a joke. Their discipline also was laughable. The players really didn't care. Murphy has a huge job on his hands turning that ship around.

As for Ulster? A bit of a mess really. I think the talent was evident and that's why we powered home but we really struggled for any sort of meaningful game plan and most of best moments came from running out of ideas and deciding to kick behind them. As it turned out that was a very successful strategy.

Cooney won MOTM but I've got to be honest guys, this season I've seen a big drop off in form from him. He didn't boss the game anywhere near enough. His box kicking was somewhere between poor and awful and his passing looks slower this year. He's still running great support lines but he just seems a bit jaded.

Burns had the odd nice cameo but again didn't offer anything near a complete performance.

Rory was poor in the first half. He's carrying a bit of lumber, but he stepped it up in the 2nd half.

The scrum is a serious issue for us. I honestly don't know why we have a scrum coach if that's the sort of performance we're going to put out. The thing is, with a scrum coach it's not just Dundon's wages we're paying. It's the time we're dedicating on the training pitches to work on scrums which then means we're not spending on other areas (cough - mauls defence/setup - cough). Moore steadied the ship but we need to aiming a bit higher than not losing our own scrums at a minimum.

Backs were pretty stifled from slow distribution and a lack of game plan. Addison showed glimpses. He seems like a poor man's Payne. That sounds harsh but is actually quite the compliment. Very similar in styles, though Payne being a full international and B & Irish Lion is a class above obviously.

Lowry did well considering though I do question the wisdom of playing him out of position with next to no lead time for that role. A better opposition back 3 would have peppered him with highballs all day. As it was Leicester tried that and after he caught 2 on the bounce they simply gave up that tactic 20 mins in.

Gilroy looked off the pace. I think he got injured about 15 mins in and while he still had pace, he offered a lot less lateral movement that usual (steps, jinks, etc).

Looking to next week, certain players in that squad need a break. I'd suggest we rotate heavily for Racing.

Pretty much an admission that it was a move forced by media pressure and not based on principle or rules being broken.

Basically saying, once they feel the angry mob are no longer paying attention, they will be welcomed back...

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/ulsters-operations-director-says-door-remains-open-for-jackson-and-olding-to-return-in-the-future-37416632.html

Have to say Redman I disagree with most of that. Given our form over the past few games and the weather conditions that was a fantastic performance. Yes Tigers were very poor in the second half but the team really fronted up.

The scrum improved significantly when Moore came on, which we desperately needed as this has been a real area of concern over the past few weeks.

Addison was my MOTM, followed by McCloskey but Cooney was a worthy winner, I don't see what you are, he's playing as well if not better than last year and taken on more responsibility with more attacks coming off 9 this year.

In the pack Henderson had his best game of the season, which he needed as Beirne is on fire at Munster right now, all the Irish locks need to up their game. O'Connor had another solid game and the back row were excellent, including Reidy when he came on. Best had a good game as well but doesn't look like he can last more than 60min at this level anymore.

In the backs Lowry did really well considering he dropped the first high ball and Stockdale looking close to his best as well, so there is a good bit to be positive about this week, even if there is still a lot to work on.

rodders wrote: I don't see what you are, he's playing as well if not better than last year and taken on more responsibility with more attacks coming off 9 this year.

I only saw the first 30mins against Leicester but not sure what you've been watching rodders, his passes have been off more so far this season than probably all of last season. There was a ten minute period against Connacht where his passing just seem to completely dysfunction and it seems to be a recurring situation this season. He seems to go side to side more than last season and miss glaring openings to attack and Shanahan seems to offer more pace to the attack when he's on than Cooney

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote: I don't see what you are, he's playing as well if not better than last year and taken on more responsibility with more attacks coming off 9 this year.

I only saw the first 30mins against Leicester but not sure what you've been watching rodders, his passes have been off more so far this season than probably all of last season. There was a ten minute period against Connacht where his passing just seem to completely dysfunction and it seems to be a recurring situation this season. He seems to go side to side more than last season and miss glaring openings to attack and Shanahan seems to offer more pace to the attack when he's on than Cooney

Agree. Cooney's passing is not as hot as last season. When Shanahan came on I had a double take as his passing was noticeably crisper, faster and more accurate.
However when Cooney moved to 10 he looked far more assured and potent than Burns had been.

So Aaron Sexton clocked 10.5m/s (37.8km/h) in the game versus Cardiff, the fastest speed ever recorded by an Ulster player in a match and raked up 7 tries in 6 games

How long have records been kept?

Only a few years via GPS. It's not actually that quick when you consider they only track 40 meter splits. Stephen Ferris previously was the quickest in his final season.

10.5 m/s over short distance factored over 100 meters is going to be well over 11 seconds, which is fairly typical for a top outside back.

rodders, it's 10.5 metres per second that's less than 10 secs over 100 metres. Usain Bolts world record was 10.44 metres per second so it's world record pace

Are we not comparing 2 different factors here?

I can imagine Bolt was 100m / 10.44m a second = 9.57 seconds (WR). So that's an average.

Sexton I imagine, at his fastest hit 10.5m. Impressive but not quite the same.

Redman wrote:Are we not comparing 2 different factors here?

I can imagine Bolt was 100m / 10.44m a second = 9.57 seconds (WR).  So that's an average.

Sexton I imagine, at his fastest hit 10.5m.  Impressive but not quite the same.  

Exactly, it's fast alright but not unusually so for an outside back.

Pete Browne is retiring. Sad to hear. Reoccurring concussions.

rodders wrote:

Redman wrote:Are we not comparing 2 different factors here?

I can imagine Bolt was 100m / 10.44m a second = 9.57 seconds (WR).  So that's an average.

Sexton I imagine, at his fastest hit 10.5m.  Impressive but not quite the same.  

Exactly, it's fast alright but not unusually so for an outside back.

It's done using the time over a distance, the same as Bolts so it's the same measurement. It just may be a shorter distance it's measured over

10.52 in the 100m quick no matter what position you are on a rugby pitch. The guy is also only 17 so is likely to get quicker.

Sad to hear about Browne and the concussions, explains why he hasn't been involved.

He's very very fast!

Another speedster is wee Lowry. He has Shane Williams type speed! Very impressive.

profitius wrote:He's very very fast!

Another speedster is wee Lowry. He has Shane Williams type speed! Very impressive.

I hope Lowry is as quick as you say, but he wasn't able to stretch away from Ford who isn't renowned as being especially sharp.

The Great Aukster wrote:

profitius wrote:He's very very fast!

Another speedster is wee Lowry. He has Shane Williams type speed! Very impressive.

I hope Lowry is as quick as you say, but he wasn't able to stretch away from Ford who isn't renowned as being especially sharp.

Think that was more to do with him trying to fend off Ford rather than just pinning the ears back

marty2086 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

profitius wrote:He's very very fast!

Another speedster is wee Lowry. He has Shane Williams type speed! Very impressive.

I hope Lowry is as quick as you say, but he wasn't able to stretch away from Ford who isn't renowned as being especially sharp.

Think that was more to do with him trying to fend off Ford rather than just pinning the ears back

I thought Ford was renowned for being pretty quick?

It's easier to run without the ball so I don't think there is any shame in getting caught on the angle from that position(unless its by a tight 5 forward!), it was very good defending by Ford.

Interview in the latest edition of Business Eye with the Chairman of Ulsters Professional Game Management Committee, Paul Terrington. I'm sure you're all avid readers.

Nothing that we really didn't know, just that they expect a new CEO in early 2019 but the biggest takeaway for me was his discussion of Ulsters business model where he says that Ulster are looking critically at the business model and engaging with the business community sharing ideas get feedback to help them thinking differently about commercial opportunities and ways of financing rugby. He added he believed Ulster 'currently don't have enough revenues to realise our goals'.

Not to sure what to make of that as he didn't state whether those goals were on or off the field just seems slightly ominous given the cut backs.

To be honest I think if you asked any operations director at any club across any of the league's you would get a very similar answer. So I wouldn't be panicking just yet

Farrell resigned for Munster. Means he wont be returing to boost our center options next season. Munster also signed nick McCarthy prob a player we could have used more than them.

We'll probably end up with Hart or Williams then, though I've never thought Williams was as bad as most people seem to say

marty2086 wrote:We'll probably end up with Hart or Williams then, though I've never thought Williams was as bad as most people seem to say

Neither are of the required standard. Might be better off sticking with your current 3 and see how they develop.

profitius wrote:

marty2086 wrote:We'll probably end up with Hart or Williams then, though I've never thought Williams was as bad as most people seem to say

Neither are of the required standard. Might be better off sticking with your current 3 and see how they develop.

I was thinking more for the start of the season next year, if Cooney ends up in Japan Ulster are a little short at 9. What I've seen of Curtis Jr. I haven't been impressed so far another body may be needed

Is jonney Stewart not supposed to be highly regarded?

He is and the suggestion is he is playing Celtic Cup rugby to get minutes rather than warming the bench with he seniors, with Ulster out it'll be interesting if he starts to get more senior minutes but with Cooney seemingly number 3 with Ireland, come the start of next season Ulster could be left with Shanahan and Stewart holding done the fort. That could be seen as an opportunity for players to prove themselves and Curtis Jr added to the mix a cover or a more experienced head might be needed. Maybe a swansong for Marshall? It's a dilemma Ulster face though

Stewart has looked OK at times, so has Shanahan but then so did Marshall. Don't see much point in bringing in either Williams or Hart even if they did want to sign.

So much of scrumhalf success is down to leadership, vision and wanting to be always involved. Pienaar was great not because he had an amazing pass but because he passed at the right time to the right person. Cooney also as a former 10 has that vision, if not always the same execution as Ruan. It was back in his schooldays that Conor Murray switched to 9, but that was probably the best decision of his life.

Has Michael Lowry ever considered switching inside?

Ulster Rugby team to play Racing 92, Heineken Champions Cup Round 2, Saturday 20th October, La Defense (U) Arena, 6.30pm Local Time / 5.30pm BST:

(15-9): M Lowry; C Gilroy, W Addison, S McCloskey, J Stockdale; B Burns, D Shanahan;

(1-8): A Warwick, R Best (captain), M Moore, I Henderson, K Treadwell, M Coetzee, J Murphy, N Timoney;

Replacements (16-23): A McBurney, E O’Sullivan, R Kane, A O’Connor, S Reidy, J Stewart, J McPhillips, A Kernohan

The Great Aukster wrote:Stewart has looked OK at times, so has Shanahan but then so did Marshall. Don't see much point in bringing in either Williams or Hart even if they did want to sign.

So much of scrumhalf success is down to leadership, vision and wanting to be always involved. Pienaar was great not because he had an amazing pass but because he passed at the right time to the right person. Cooney also as a former 10 has that vision, if not always the same execution as Ruan. It was back in his schooldays that Conor Murray switched to 9, but that was probably the best decision of his life.

Has Michael Lowry ever considered switching inside?

It all comes down to when the season starts, the RWC runs from the end of Sept through to the start of November. Any players away will miss a chunk at the start of the season, that means Ulster maybe playing with fire, now it may not be Williams or Hart but they will need more than Shanahan and Stewart, Curtis Jr may be who they go for but you'd like to think they wouldn't be keen on risking going potentially a few months with just two 9s

So basically the same team as we put out for Leicester with a few enforced changes (Cooney and I imagine O'Connor is falling apart).

If we're trying to compete on two fronts with the current squad then we're going to come a cropper in both. We just don't have the depth and we'll burn out badly.

Also I fear for Lowry. That backline of Zebo, Thomas and Imhoff ...........

I disagree, try in Europe bit put out kids if there is no chance in qualifing. If we win we are in with a great chance to qualify, surely that would give the kids and squad more experience, esp of knock out rugby. This squad should be ok to try in Europe and get a hCup spot

Redman wrote:So basically the same team as we put out for Leicester with a few enforced changes (Cooney and I imagine O'Connor is falling apart).

If we're trying to compete on two fronts with the current squad then we're going to come a cropper in both.  We just don't have the depth and we'll burn out badly.  

Also I fear for Lowry.  That backline of Zebo, Thomas and Imhoff ...........

Or maybe they are rotating the locks because Henderson isn't available after Racing so they are trying not to flog the two they do have?

After all it's Dragons then a trip to Treviso who will be without about 19 players at least who will be away with Italy, Im sure guys like O'Toole, o'Sullivan and Kernoghan will come back in

I worry more about Lowry against the likes of Nakarawa and Bird or someone like Census Johnston who is about 10 stone heavier

Big difference today. We made line breaks but didn't finish them. They did. Ruthlessly.
We slipped off a couple too many tackles, but at times our rush defence stopping them behind the line and looked solid.
But our bench made little to no impact.
Treadwell looked good, as did wee lad at 15, Addison played well but was guilty of trying to do to much at times.
And in the first half I felt we just didn't get the bounce of the ball.

Not as hard as the score looks in my eyes

An excellent win for rugby and all that is good in the world.

Cyril wrote:An excellent win for rugby and all that is good in the world.

Classy guy.

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