PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).It seems there's as much anticipation this week to see how the USGA has set up Shinnecock Hills for the US Open as there is to see how Tiger Woods does.
Everything else secondary.
Not sure that does justice to Shinnecock, which is traditionally one of the stars of the USGA's US Open circuit of courses.
It'll be the first visit here since the fiasco of 2004 when the USGA was presumably thrilled with a final round scoring average of about 78 . . . . . . until they were overwhelmed by an avalanche of richly deserved negative publicity about dried out/dead greens and incompatible winds.

2).So they brought in Coore & Crenshaw to prepare the lay-out for 2018's golfers - 500 yards added to the course, wider (up to 40 yards) fairways and some redoing of a few of the greens. All this overshadowed by ill-fated experiments at Chambers Bay, in 2015, and Erin Hills last year. So the USGA is on the spot this week. Not so much Shinnecock though as they're already assured of a return visit in 2026.

3).Shinnecock, way out on New York State's Long Island, is by most accounts one of the first five golf clubs in the USA (tho' Royal Montreal and Royal Quebec predated it during the early 1870's, in that territory north of the border now referred to, presumably, as that "special place in hell" by White House staff); some "golf" clubs in South Carolina & Georgia existed earlier without much evidence they actually played golf.
In 1895 Shinnecock was one of the five "Founding Clubs" (clubs in Boston, Chicago, Newport, RI, and New York) of the USGA which held its first US Open at Newport GC, then at Shinnecock the following year. Then not again until Ray Floyd won a thriller in 1986.

4).A pair of Willies laid out the course, Davis produced 12 holes followed by Dunn who added 9 more and integrated the two efforts into an 18-holer. Charles B.McDonald (National Golf Links and others) and the prolific Seth Raynor (Fishers Island, Chicago GC, Waialae CC and dozens in between) upgraded the course and Willie Flynn (Merion etc) reconfigured the 18 holes roughly resembling what we see today.
Coore and Crenshaw have stretched the course to almost 7,500 yards - it looks to have been pretty dry on Long Island so hopefully there'll be some penal rough otherwise this week promises to be a bombers paradise. A golfer of 1995 winner Corey Pavin's length need not apply, though a Retief Goosen profile, hits it far enough and with a brilliant putting week, will be competitive. (Pity Retief didn't receive an invitation.)

5).Given that foreward, how does that help us pick a winner this week?
I'd start with the world's Top ten, add a couple, eliminate one or two others and roll the dice.

6).Dustin? If he's playing at his best, he can't be beaten! Hasn't been out of the Top 20 in a strokeplay event since last September, but not keen on him playing in Woods's group, the only reservation.
Thomas: Don't fancy him here, no particular reason, just don't find him as convincing as his wins might suggest.
Rose: Great chance, though his links form hasn't been that great this century. But hits it far enough and plots his way around as well as anyone. Seemingly a great caddie relationship.
Spieth: Course management great, but driving accuracy still questionable and lost his magic touch on the greens.
Rahm: Seems to have gone off the boil - may win a Major one day, but not this week.
Rory: Under the radar, but perhaps justifiably so. Too inconsistent for me, still not keen on his caddie situation.
Fowler: Wins on the PGA Tour less that 2% of the time; too good not to improve that, but doubt it'll be this week.
Day: Like Rory, don't fancy his caddie deal, but has all the proverbial tools to win. Fitness, mental & physical always a ?
Koepka: Playing well; can he be the first to successfully "defend" since Curtis Strange a generation or two ago? Wouldn't be surprised.
Matsuyama: Unconvincing since his injury, no Tour Top 3's since August, but wouldn't be surprised to see him somewhere on the leaderboard.

7).Best of the rest?
Best Aussie: Leishman - so difficult to predict, but must have a great chance if the wind blows a bit.
Best Saffer: tie between Grace & King Louis, two guys who seem to elevate their game in Majors.
Best Cont European: Stenson: Why not, if he's in the mood?
Best GB&I: Poults: Just got a feeling! Also like Lowry to have a decent week.
Best of the rest of the US: Kooch & Duf.
Lots of good e.w. options there.

8).Phil & Tiger: Would love to see Mickelson win a US Open, but rather feel his time has passed. Woods is ten years removed from his Torrey Pines heroics, but the course looks as if it could be set up in his favour. SkyBet says 16/1 against him so could be worth an e.w. punt, but don't see him winning.

9).Fox will be broadcasting this week and the best bet of the week is that Joe Buck will make us miss Jim Nantz before the first hour is up.
Shane O'Donoghue will no doubt try to match him in the verbal diarrhea stakes, but hopefully Zinger and Faxon can rein them in. Ken Brown will be on the course but, on US TV, always sounds as if he's got socks in his mouth - but a great asset if they can fix his audio.
Fox also has the World Cup, almost enough to make one fly east for the next six weeks.

10).I hope they get the course set up right so that golf can be the winner. The weather should be ideal, dry, mild, with some breeze but nothing too severe, enough to allow the course to play as nature intended, firm and fast without going ott.
Don't much care who wins but trust it will be because of great golf, not because the USGA tried to be too clever with the course.  
And reveal that Shinnecock is the true star of the week.

Just seen that the first round scoring average is 76.48, the highest it’s been since 1986 (77.87) at, you guessed it, Shinnecock. The field stands a combined 1,011 over par. Hat tip to PGATour.com and PrinceDrac for those two stats.

Whilst I do see where your coming from with regards PGA etc...I do believe that some blame must lay at theirs and others doors; after all they are all involved in the process of where the majors get played. Obviously a huge amount of today's issues lay with the course unto itself and the fact that yet again warnings weren't heeded with regards to how it will play if weather gets up. I mean that 7 was a disaster today and can only imagine how it will play with another day of dry weather....repeat of 2004 seems abound.

As you say, it makes for a completely different style of golf and it could well be that we are looking at a rather large one and done outsider holding the trophy aloft come Sunday. Is that good for the game, of course in the sense of it shows others that a chance is always their for a major to be had. In the sense of the game growing; likely not. I mean as it stands the weekend will be missing;

Mickelson, Rory, Woods, Rahm, Day, Spieth...clearly if its the case they didn't deserve to be here for the weekend but you can guarantee that it turns the regular punter off bothering tuning in on the weekend. Less eyes on the product is never a good thing for a sports participation levels.

I know I didn't get into golf to watch a bloke struggle to +12 in a similar vein to if I went down my local club and had a round of golf. The aim is to inspire people to pick up some clubs and go out and play. Provide excitement and tension and amazement at what one witnesses. None of that was achieved today and when courses are this penalising that will always remain the case.

Anyhow back on with the tournament itself...who do we think are cooked already and may as well pack their bags for the weekend?

Obviously this is going to be won on grit and patience and a hell of a lot of par saving...is it nailed on for Johnson or do we think this is going to be one by a Poulter type player or even the man himself?

Where do Day, Spieth and Rory go from here? (on a larger scale not this tournament per se)

Not sure about some of the comments on here. If you are into golf, you would ve used to this kind of us open, look at some of them from late 90s backwards, even par or a few under would win.

And these fairways are pretty wide in comparison to the last time it held the open. Its not bad for golf in anyway. But if they play well they can set a decent score as proven.

Owen, I find it ok to be penalised when missing the fw, but I agree the rolling off greens sees a bit ott. But in fairness we’re only talking about a handful of holes. If they get some water it’ll be a different story. I did notice very black clouds last night so dunno if the organisers were expecting some rain.

I'm never wrong wrote:

McLaren wrote:I reckon I could play to my handicap out there .Just saying.

I know you are tongue in cheek Mac, but didn't someone do some analysis or a commentary on a Major location and how a mid range handicapper wouldn't break 100?

Depends on the venue. Plenty of us could break 80 or 90 gross on major "tracks" especially on the British Open courses, even with the back tees and tougher pin positions.

I could easily see a 15 handicapper break 100 on TOC for example.

beninho wrote:Not sure about some of the comments on here. If you are into golf, you would ve used to this kind of us open, look at some of them from late 90s backwards, even par or a few under would win.

And these fairways are pretty wide in comparison to the last time it held the open. Its not bad for golf in anyway. But if they play well they can set a decent score as proven.

Agreed. I think there's too many with the attention span of a fruit fly these days. Too many that're only interested if 'Rors' or 'Tiger' are knocking them dead. Too many only interested in 350+ drive, followed by lob wedge w/ oodles of backspin. It's tough; it's meant to be. And it's windy.
More of problem than the course is the fact that, in the U.K., you can only see live coverage on Sky. How about that for encouraging the youngsters to play?

Re. McIlroy. For someone brought up and learning the game in Ireland, how is it that he's so scheiss, and still hitting sky scraping trajectories, when any wind blows??? Beginning to wonder if there's any brain cells in there.

It seemed pretty brutal but in an odd way. People making double from the middle of the fairway. can't say I enjoyed it that much but it's a fair enough test. Clearly, they just don't play enough tough courses if they struggle so badly when a course is said up to play hard. I don't mind them feeling how I feel every time I play the game, welcome to my world boys!

I don’t get this criticism of “good shots being punished” when people are pitching pin high and rolling off the back edge. Sorry, that’s just not a “good shot” then. With the exception of the 7th all the holes where that happened had plenty of room to land short and run balls onto the green. These guys have had since Monday to play practice rounds, there’s no excuse for not knowing some greens are too hard to play target golf.

As said above this is the US Open, traditionally the most severe professional golf tournament, and after four in row where the winner has finished under par - including last year's record breaking birdie fest - it was always going to be toughened up.

As was mentioned on the TV last night, the USGA will be delighted with the scoring.

It's not exactly my preference for good tournament viewing but I appreciate it for being something different and the last time the winner finished over par (Rose, Merion '13) was an exciting and thrilling weekend.

pedro wrote:Owen, I find it ok to be penalised when missing the fw, but I agree the rolling off greens sees a bit ott. But in fairness we’re only talking about a handful of holes. If they get some water it’ll be a different story. I did notice very black clouds last night so dunno if the organisers were expecting some rain.

They'll only get significant water from a sprinkler or hosepipe, not much chance of rain today. Cooler, hopefully not much wind.

Wouldn't agree that the USGA will be pleased with the scoring - they'll know the conditions will be the story, not the good golf which was mostly played by pros who play well within themselves and manage their games very well, not those who expect to blast it 350 yards through mid-on and get up and down from deep rough or trees.

It's not like most golfers around the world don't spend all their time trying to break 80, for one week of the year let the pro's have a shot at it.

I would obviously prefer from my personal tastes that a course like shinni could be used to show off the more progressive forms of gca but it's still a great course for the fans to enjoy. 

How many of the players actually deviated from their usual chcoice of shot? Who adapted to the weather and course conditions ?

Mac,
Wouldn't it be a bit more fair to say that many of the golfers DID adapt, just not the PhilRoryTigerJordanThomasSergioBubbaetc that the media want to write headlines about?

As for Shinnecock, I wonder if the USGA screwed itself by lengthening the course but didn't adjust the green "complexes" accordingly?

Rafa going nicely this morning, one European Tour member who has flourished in the US.

Any technical people out there know why I hear the sound of the club hitting the ball before I see it?

I'm never wrong wrote:Any technical people out there know why I hear the sound of the club hitting the ball before I see it?

I often feel Fox (and NBC) have their sports coverage on a slight tape delay, presumably to make their commentators sound more prescient or on the ball. Perhaps they have their audio & video slightly out of sync? Not watching so can't be sure.

kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
Wouldn't it be a bit more fair to say that many of the golfers DID adapt, just not the PhilRoryTigerJordanThomasSergioBubbaetc that the media want to write headlines about?

As for Shinnecock, I wonder if the USGA screwed itself by lengthening the course but didn't adjust the green "complexes" accordingly?

Kwini good point that some of the top players didn't but even among the rest I am not sure enough players figured out what they were up against and how to play accordingly. 

It would have been interesting to see how a shorter version of the course would have faired, and could have been a good advert for shorter but still challenging courses

Tommy!

Read an article that said cut would be at 60 and ties. USGA scoring shows it at +9, with 99 players making cut. +7 is at 61, +8 is at 78. Can anyone enlighten me as to why it should be at +9 rather than +7? Or are they basing it on the score, rather than the numbers as is?

Cut definitely top 60 and ties.
I think the USGA is trying to project - interesting as Mike Davis just suggested it would be +10, or even +11.
+9 for me, Woods just a stroke too many, he can save $1,100 a day on berthing charges for his "dinghy".

I read the course has only been lengthened by 400 yards, but as its been designed with the aim of getting it more like its original form, they increased sone holesto vring defunct bunkers back.into play. Also read the greens had been increased as they had become smalland round.

Dj is some player, one of themost talented players to have played the game yet less big wins then Kaymer.

kwinigolfer wrote:They'll only get significant water from a sprinkler or hosepipe, not much chance of rain today. Cooler, hopefully not much wind.

Good Call

super_realist wrote:Depends on the venue. Plenty of us could break 80 or 90 gross on major "tracks" especially on the British Open courses, even with the back tees and tougher pin positions.

British Open Courses?

I'm never wrong wrote:Read an article that said cut would be at 60 and ties. USGA scoring shows it at +9, with 99 players making cut. +7 is at 61, +8 is at 78. Can anyone enlighten me as to why it should be at +9 rather than +7? Or are they basing it on the score, rather than the numbers as is?

USGA was projecting the cut based on the scoring average of the remaining holes left for all the players.

Weather got significantly better this afternoon and the scores got lower, that is why the cut is going to (probably) be +8. There was very little wind after 3 pm local time.

By all accounts Johnson has this wrapped up...the afternoon guys couldn't take advantage of the better conditions this afternoon whilst DJ shot a -3 in the more difficult tee times....don't see him making enough errors to lose this the way he is playing. Rose and Poulter will be very dissapointed from their efforts especially the latter. Stenson seemed to have his game on point today and probably a little frustrated he didn't have the conditions the later guys had (as will many)...

Can anyone challenge Johnson or is it his to lose?

Do we see anyone making a charge tomorrow...if so who?

The three most spoken about players are going home (Spieth may slip through but doubt it)...for two its a case of just what has gone wrong? For one its a case of carry on building and perhaps now the media will tone it down on the Woods being a contender talk just yet.

Butch spoke about Spieth and was pretty spot on: the lad has become far to mechanical...much like when Rory was at the top of the game he seems to have gone looking for far to many answers as to how to take his game even further..

Butch also spoke about Rory and again was pretty spot on; his attitude has changed in the last few years and is his focus on being the best in the game any more? Is he too focused on Majors and not enough on just winning week in week out? Also talk about him hitting shots which are opposite to his natural shape...

For me the caddy needs changing and thats not just because of this week. It's much like his coach; feel he is far to comfortable with the team around him and their seems to be that 'surrounded with yes men' factor around him. I know experts can talk nonsense but when they are all pointing out the same things about Rorys game yet he and his team don't even seem to see it something is amiss.

Rory doesn’t have a game that’s a natural fit for this type of old-style US Open, and he’s too impatient/stubborn/headstrong to plot his way around a course playing within himself, as Dustin has so far. Shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that he’s struggled this week, he won a US Open on the most un-US open like setup there’s ever been. Other than that he’s never had a top 5 and has missed the last three cuts including this one.

I think the USGA will be delighted with the leaderboard. They have three US Open Champions (Rose, Koepka, DJ) and an Open Champion (Stenson) in the top 8. Rounded out by a former runner up (Piercy), a serial Major contender (Hoffman) and two form world players (Poults and Tommy). On the other hand guys like Rory, Tiger, Jordan, Bubba and Kuch (who must be hating Coore and Crenshaw now) missing the cut comfortably, Then you have two first year pros in the top 25 with no status on any tour in the world (DeMoret, Hill). They’ll see this as an “Open” in the proper definition.

Scoring averages for the two days show how impressive DJ, Tommy F and Henrik etc were compared to the rest.

Total to Par:

Thursday morning / Friday afternoon: +8.95
Thursday afternoon / Friday morning: +11.19

Big surprises for me have been Day and Kuchar both losing the plot.
The points for US Ryder Cup qualification are doubled for Majors, so guys like Kuchar will have missed out big time - his form and schedule now will make it increasingly difficult for him to qualify. Bubba will probably slip out of the automatic qualifying places also.

And imagine Thomas Bjorn is beginning to be concerned about Sergio's form, or conspicuous lack of it.

kwinigolfer wrote:
The points for US Ryder Cup qualification are doubled for Majors, so guys like Kuchar will have missed out big time - his form and schedule now will make it increasingly difficult for him to qualify. Bubba will probably slip out of the automatic qualifying places also.

Only the winner of a major gets double points, the rest of the American finishers get 1.5x

PGATour Stats Page wrote:The top eight U.S. players earning the most official PGA TOUR money from January 1, 2017 through August 12,2018.Points are based on the following:Prize money earned in the 2017 majors(1 point for every $1,000).Prize money earned in the 2017 PLAYERS Championship, WGC-Mexico Champ, WGC-Dell Technologies Match Play, WGC-Bridgestone Invtl & WGC-HSBC Champions(1 point for every $2000):Prize money earned in 2018 offical events from 2018 Sentry ToC through 2018 PGA Championship (1 point for every $1000, excluding majors and events opposite majors and World Golf Championships):Winner of the 2018 majors (2 points for every $1000): All others who makes a cut in the 2018 majors(1.5 points for every $1000).Four Captain Picks.

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.131.html

IIRC, Furyk changed this because he got so close to qualifying in 2016 (15th) primarily because of his T2nd finish at Oakmont.

Four of the 15 Walton Heath Sectional Qualifiers made the cut, Scores from the WH secti averaged 152, Ryan Fox is leading these qualifiers at 145. (Beef, Pavon, Burmeister also made the cut)

Four of the 15 Columbus Sectional Qualifiers made the cut, scores from the Columbus sectional averaged 151. Russell Knox and Patrick Rodgers is leading these qualifiers at 144. (Brian Gay and Sungjae Im also made the cut)

Four of the 12 Memphis Sectional Qualifiers made the cut, Scores from the Memphis sectional averaged 148.5. Scott Piercy is leading these qualifers at 140 (Duncan, Burns, and Stricker also made the cut)

Two Europeans among the early starters with a great opportunity to do themselves some good:

Ross Fisher, who could use some prize-money and World Points for Ryder Cup contention is +6 for his front nine. Thomas Bjorn not impressed. Assume he's long since abandoned the idea of retaining his Tour card.

Fran Molinari needs FedEx points to boost his position and help keep his card. Currently 129th in points and his present position around 50th won't help him much.
Can't imagine he'll want to play any more events other than Carnoustie, Bridgestone and the PGA so he's got his work cut out for him.

Fish is cooked.

Molinari’s situation could get intriguing now he’s had a burst of form in Europe. He’s good odds for the Ryder Cup team, and should be a top 50 OWGR fixture through most of next year barring some catastrophic form. But at the moment he’s in the 125-150 FedEx hinterland; if things stay that way, I wonder whether he’ll bother with the Web.com finals. If he has conditional membership next year, and an exemption for all the majors, WGCs and Players via OWGR, he could probably fill a US schedule with a few sponsor exemptions and his status in weak/field events.

GPB, how much would Walton Heath’s scoring avge change if you took out a guy shooting 92? That can’t have helped.....

Phil’s lost the plot

Just tuned back in Sky say that he has done something. Conduct unbecoming. What did he do?

Over hit a putt, saw it was trickling off the green so chased after it and whacked it back up while it was still rolling. Crazy golf style.

Thanks. Deffo lost the plot.

What on earth Phil!? Bizarre

This interview is extraordinary.

Zach Johnson having his say too.

NedB-H wrote:

GPB, how much would Walton Heath’s scoring avge change if you took out a guy shooting 92? That can’t have helped.....

Eliminating the "92" would bring the scoring avg down to 150.7

I suppose I could take out all the high scores from each qualifier and the average would go down for each qualifier.

If "ifs" were fifths, we would all be alcoholics.

Just John wrote:Zach Johnson having his say too.

A lot of sense from Zach. I agree with him. They seem to have “lost” the course, especially the greens, already today and we can expect even more carnage. I even have sympathy for Phil

+3 the lead at the end of the day?

Stenson, Rose, Koepka all putting together good front nines. Let’s see what happens...

I'm guessing as he bogied 17 and 18 yesterday, that would be 1 green in regulation for Justin's last 13 holes. And he's still in 4th!

It’ll get lost in all the melodrama, but Luke is very good on the commentary.

Funny how players really struggle with a difficult course with difficult weather conditions. I have no issues with how uts going.

Nah the US Open is the worst major out there now, pure Mickey Mouse. USGA totally up themselves. Roll on Carnastie ;-)

It is crazy today. Greens like concrete and pins on top of slopes, it's not a clever set up. The envelope has been pushed too far. If they know the greens will get even quicker as the day goes on it also penaltiises the guys who have played well for 2 rounds. Harsh.

I'd recommend anyone to read the fried egg twitter feed, very interesting. Talks about players not playing to the right positions. Showcases koepka on 15, who took a tight line on his drive leaving him with no real angle to the pin, then aims at it goes right of it and feeds off to the bunker, while Rose at at the left side of the fairway, has a longer shot to the left side of the green, where tgey have more room, it then takes the contours and he gets a birdie. He states nit seen a good shot from a good position be punished.

Maybe Fried Egg should be playing.

I think the point being, when it's that windy and the landing areas are so small, then it's a lot easier said than done. I'm still enjoying it, but there is a bit of a lottery element about it.

But players need to think on their feet. Play it a bit different, don't take shots or pins on if the risk is pretty high. Its clearly difficult and borderline, but aren't most us opens?

I think it’s just a couple of pin positions that are wrong; 13, 15 maybe 18. Nothing wrong with steep slopes and runoffs on and around greens. Augusta has loads, even St Andrews 18th and Pebble 14th have false fronts. You just don’t put the cup on the crest of the hill.
I don’t have any issue with Koepka toppling off the edge trying to sneak right of a tight pin, nor with his and Stenson’s shortsided bunker shots running out thirty feet. But Poulter from the front bunker all but stopped a splash out six feet short of the hole and it ran off the back of the green fifty feet away.

Ned

If the USGA's goal is not to embarrass the best players in the world, but to identify them, they failed.
Bunch of stuck up wallies.